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[Im Too Legendary]

Hey everybody, this is a very ANNOYING and ANTAGONIZING glitch I found. It happened to me after I just completed the Loyalty Mission for Jack.

This is my 3rd playthrough on insanity, each having 30+ hours because I went through everything throughly. The 1st play through I did not have a problem, however the 2nd play through this is when the glitch first occured. I don't understand why it does this but, after I complete the Loyalty mission for jack, and when you blow up/ get off the station. You come to a cut scene while your in the ship, when joker tells you how Miranda and Joker are in an argument.

So I proceed to go into the room while their arguing, and your given 4 choices. The first playthrough like as aforementioned I had no problem. I was able to choose the Paragon action or speech line in order to resolve the issue, without losing the loyalty of either Jack or Miranda. And since I'm not a high renegade, the renegade option is out. I'm approximately 98% paragon, and I know for a FACT that on the first playthrough when I did this mission, I was no where near 90% paragon, yet I was still able to perform the paragon action.

The paragon action is black out making me not able to click it, and I'm pretty furious at this, since this is the 2nd time. And this is the sole reason that I thought I could rectify by playing through the story a 3rd time. In my first playthough I accidentally chose the wrong person for suicide task (going through the tunnel) during the suicide mission. Which in turn led to Mordin dieing, since that was who I chose. Therefore I was not able to get the achievement.

As such I really want this problem to be fixed, for it has left a pretty bad image for ME2, I don't want to waste 90+ hours of my time for something as stupid as this thwart my appreciation for this game.

Also I noticed this samething for Zaeeds Loyalty mission, at the end since I chose the paragon ending, I'm not able to rectify his problem with Video by choosing the Paragon dialoge line. In the first playthrough I was able to, and I was still able to have his loyalty. However since the Paragon option is blacked out, I have no choice but to pick something else. Which in turn leads to not having his loyalty, and will more than likely end up dieing in the Suicide Mission.

PLEASE HELP ME WITH THIS PROBLEM!!!

Thanks in advance

[Kim Stolz]

This isn't a bug. All of the persuades you're talking about are the very hardest ones in the game.There's a lot more to the persuade system than just having a high renegade or paragon bar. I'm sorry you're upset but that's how the system was made.Gladstone and faderoots are actually pretty close to right on in this case.

[Kim Stolz]

I say it's not bugged because it's a pretty complex system that runs underneath regular gameplay. To completely explain it in the forums would be confusing and might ruin the mystique of how it works. So believe me when I say this isn't a bug. We tested this sytem very thouroughly and it works exactly like it is intended.

[Kim Stolz]

Im Too Legendary wrote...

Kim Stolz wrote...

I say it's not bugged because it's a pretty complex system that runs underneath regular gameplay. To completely explain it in the forums would be confusing and might ruin the mystique of how it works. So believe me when I say this isn't a bug. We tested this sytem very thouroughly and it works exactly like it is intended.

Then please clarify how in the first playthrough I was able to use the paragon option. However on my 2nd (after importing my ME2 Character) the option is mysteriously grayed out.

Even when I completed the missions in the EXACT same order, and even tried saving those missions for the last.

And if these confrontations are so hard, how come I can use the paragon option for Tali and Legion, when clearly that mission is by far later in the game, which at least in theory should recquire more Paragon points. Yet I'm not able to do a paragon option that I could of done, during the first portion of the "Loyalty" missions?

This does not make sense.

This is actually quite easy to explain. The Confrontation between Legion and Tali is actually much easier to do the Paragon persuade than renegade. That's why you're able to do that one.The renegade option is the harder of the two for that arguement.

[Kim Stolz]

LBXZero wrote...

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

You know this how?  Seriously, stating your speculation like it's fact is annoying and unhelpful.

The lone Dev comment in this thread that sheds some light on the actual system seems to indicate YOU are over simplifying how it works (they actually used the word "complex" and "confusing" to desribe it).  

It is not my problem that you misintrepreted what I said.  My post is nothing more than a comment, thus it should be treated as nothing more than a comment.

I provided something for testing, but no one has reported a response to it.  The Devs have not commented here, just a customer rep.

I Beg your Pardon?! A customer rep? Check the credits on the game.

[Kim Stolz]

Master Smurf wrote...

Well LBX I really wouldnt worry - most of Kim's responses I have seen make him/her sound more like a rep than a dev.

I do think McBeath has the right concept but I would ask if those 3 other playthroughs were with a re-imported ME2 character - for clarification.

 He has been in sales and customer support for years. It's something you never really forget. I'm not actually offended, just thought it was funny. Since this thread has started I've checked the paragon persuades and the renegade persuades for both of those confrontations (Miranda/Jack and Legion/ Tali) They seem to work exactly how they're supposed to. I had no problem doing them with the 100% bonus and only had trouble using the paragon persuade for jack/miranda and the renegade for legion/tali with only 70% bonus.It's incredibly difficult but that's the point. It was meant to be the equivelent of the kaiden/ashley choice in ME1. Except this time there is a possibility to save both. Hopefully that puts the confusion to bed.

[Kim Stolz]

crapmonster13 wrote...

Maybe I was just lucky, but its hard to imagine that people actually actively going the paragon route and have over 90% still have trouble resolving these disputes.

Actually that's very believable.Since so many people want the explanation of how this works I'll tell you. Don't read any further if you don't want it spoiled. There are potential paragon and renegade points throughout the game. When the user arrives in an area (ie: Omega) the game registers every single paragon or renegade decision that can be made and increases the difficulty of the persuade system based on these potential points. If the user collects all of these points (either paragon OR renegade) they break even they can almost never get ahead of the system, you can only keep apace. If the user misses these oppotunities to collect all of the points the game still keeps these points you missed so the player will actually fall behind. If the player falls behind it is very difficult and almost impossible to catch back up because everywhere you go more potential points are being mounted against you and making the persuasions more difficult. So when you arrive at the most difficult persuasions in the game where you are already at a disadvantage due to the difficulty of the persuade and these potential points that you missed stack up to make it even more difficult and then you try to paragon persuade jack and miranda which makes it even more difficult(it's easier to renegade persuade those two and paragon persuade legion and tali) you are going to fail it; not because it's a bug but because the system was made that way.

What I think a lot of people aren't realizing is that when you import an ME1 save you get a pretty major bonus to the paragon or renegade scale which makes the persuades incredibly easy. then you start an ME2 newgame + and you are working from a clean slate.

Hopefully that explains it well enough for  you. I've talked to the people who made this system and decided on the bonus for starting a newgame+ and the odds of this being changed or made easier are very, very low.
If you're confused by the explanation I gave or need some clarification please feel free to PM me. Thanks .

[Kim Stolz]

LBXZero wrote...

You call a system based on a percentage of collectible points complex?

That was in fact a simplified version of how the system works. Don't thank me for spending this much time trying to answer your questions in the forum or anything.
It's stuff like this that makes people hesitant to try and help answer questions.

However, for those of you who are receptive to answers and appreciate our time. We love helping you guys!  

[Kim Stolz]

ArmeniusLOD wrote...

I think the system shouldn't be linear like this. I think that certain persuasion options should be more difficult based on the personality of the person you are trying to persuade and not on how many points out of the total you have collected up to that point. It seems kind of disingenuous that you have to be completely renegade or paragon to be able to pass the all of the speech checks late in the game. On my first playthrough I received about 80% renegade and 50% paragon (because I like being neutral, leaning toward renegade) and I could not persuade anyone from the Reaper IFF mission onward.
Don't misread this and think I'm asking that you be able to pass all persuasions with less than a full bar. I'm just suggesting that not everything progress in a linear fashion as it is now. Just something to think about for ME3.

That is an excellent suggestion. That's kind of what we did with the confrontation persuades. That's why we made the persuade for tali and legion paragon which was more reasoning with them because they're so logical and why the renegade persuade for jack and miranda was Shepard putting his foot down and sending them to their rooms like children, because they're both so hot headed and stubborn. But we also couldn't make the later decisions in the game really easy because then everyone can get the persuades and everyone would succeed and everyone would have the same experiance playing the game. A decision with no consequences is hardly a decision at all.