129 réponses à ce sujet

[GEWill]

It never really struck me until now but why aren't black people represented in Dragon Age? You have white people, latinos (if you count Zevran), and various other ethnicities based on the accents of the people voicing them, but there isn't a single black person on this game.

It's pretty ridiculous to make a male human and have a white mother and father as a black man/woman. I mean homosexuals are represented on this game yet black people are completely forgotten.

I would love for someone associated with the lore of Dragon Age to explain or shed some insight as to what this is.

I'm pretty sure Awakenings will be the same way.

[David Gaider]

You'll find dark-skinned people in the nation of Rivain, which is quite a ways off to the north. This far south those of Rivaini descent (like Duncan, though he is half-Rivaini) are fairly rare. Ferelden is analogous to medieval England, which it is a fictionalized version of.

Could we have included more ethnicities? Certainly -- but our intent was to create an internally consistent setting, not to reflect ethnic diversity as it's found in our own world in modern times. You can create whatever appearance you wish (I'll point out you can make your character look old, as well, despite the assumption within the game that you are young) though it's been mentioned before that we might have considered making in-game parents match skin tone/hair color. It's something we'll keep in mind as a possibility for the future.

Hope that answers your concern.

Modifié par David Gaider, 14 février 2010 - 07:03 .

[Emma-Lath]

Ferelden is not like a modern America you are going to see people of different races in the same country. Zevran is of a different ethnicity because he is from a different country, hence why if you went to Antiva you would find almost no native white people.

In Rivain apparently all the people there are dark skin. Duncan is half Rivain which is why his skin is darker than most.

edit: ninja'd  and by David too

Modifié par lala_lover, 14 février 2010 - 07:12 .

[Kwanzaabot]

One thing that struck me as odd, is that the Chasind you encounter in Lothering are black. Apparently Ferelden is in the southern hemisphere (like Mr. Gaider said, the Rivaini live in the far north), so why the darker skin tone in an area that should produce people prone to pale skin? Was that just a goof, or is there a reason for it?

[Sloth Of Doom]

Kwanzaabot wrote...

One thing that struck me as odd, is that the Chasind you encounter in Lothering are black. Apparently Ferelden is in the southern hemisphere (like Mr. Gaider said, the Rivaini live in the far north), so why the darker skin tone in an area that should produce people prone to pale skin? Was that just a goof, or is there a reason for it?

Well, we don't know how far south the Chasind come from, which could account for a difference.  We also don't know where people originated, how the have traveled, how continental drift affected racial dispersion or a million other things that could account for it.

[Draelorn]

Well we can whittle away all we want, but the truth is people in fantasy are white. The history, the legends. It's an interesting subject that we dont talk about. I would have you look at mass effect 2.

[AlanC9]

David Gaider wrote...

...though it's been mentioned before that we might have considered making in-game parents match skin tone/hair color. I

I thought you actually had done this. My first City Elf looked so much like her cousin that I assumed you were copying settings.

[AlanC9]

Draelorn wrote...

Well we can whittle away all we want, but the truth is people in fantasy are white. The history, the legends.

Depends on which fantasy, doesn't it?

[Draelorn]

I stand corrected. It really is a touchy subject.

[metatheurgist]

AlanC9 wrote...

Draelorn wrote...

Well we can whittle away all we want, but the truth is people in fantasy are white. The history, the legends.

Depends on which fantasy, doesn't it?

Yeah, it's weird how Oriental fantasy only has orientals. It's like most of these stories came from a time when cultures were still isolated. Wait a minute....

[Inaubryn]

Actually, there were dark-skinned peoples in medieval Europe, though many of them were slaves. Considering that the continent borders Africa and that Europeans had a tendency to explore and colonize and return with their "acquired prizes", it could easily be reasoned that Ferelden could also have dark-skinned folks.

However, the main reason you don't see dark-skinned people in fantasy/Sci-fi video games is the same reason you see more white males in all other media (film and television) The stories are often time told from the perspective of white males. This also accounts for female heroines being outnumbered by their male counterparts despite race/skin color. Most people tell stories from their own perspective, through their own eyes. This will be the picture they paint for others.

It's not a racist thing, it's just a portrait of unilateralism. We are talking about a business and artform that is run by or taken up by predominantly white men. Allow me to offer an anecdote. My brother, who is a game programmer for a company in Austin and a black male, went to the GDC in San Fran here a few years back. He ran into one of the creative heads at Wizards of the Coast. They got on the subject of DnD and Fantasy in general. The guy asked my brother what approach he would take in order to attract more people of color to fantasy gaming. My brother got me on the phone because this is a convo he and I have had numerous times.

I told him to tell the guy that I would start with images. Images are a very powerful thing, as we all know and when people see images that resemble themselves, they're more likely to stop and pay attention. Long story short, we discussed a myriad of ideas to do what he asked. Needless to say, I guess I don't have enough clout to affect what images Wizards portrays in their materials. Heh. Ah well.

As a black male my heroes and heroines are usually black. That's an intended choice because growing up I never saw many heroes, that weren't stereotypes, who looked like me and always wondered where they were. I'll wager that the majority of programmers, writers, directors, and what not at Bioware are white men. Therefore, when they create a game, you're going to see a greater representation for that demographic show up in that game.

This is a very lengthy subject and I haven't touched on every angle, nor could I if I wish to, and I may not have completely supported the above statements. This is partly due to the fact that it's 6 or so in the morning here and I should sleep. The other part is I don't feel like typing a super-long diatribe on the subject.

Modifié par Inaubryn, 14 février 2010 - 12:52 .

[Mikey_205]

Its because its Medievil history set in a land similar to Europe, the Romans may have had black slaves because they conquered the Roman Empire but did the Tevinter even conquer that area? Did they even need them as slaces with the abundant Elven population they used instead?



I could understand the problem if we were playing some game that had African Tribal or Asian fantasy elements using their mythology and everyone in those areas were also white. But Ferelden is meant to represent Medievil England.

[melkathi]

metatheurgist wrote...


Yeah, it's weird how Oriental fantasy only has orientals. It's like most of these stories came from a time when cultures were still isolated. Wait a minute....

We should start demanding a token white guy in the 1001 arabian nights.
And a native american in every asian martial arts flick.
Why was there no black man in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon?
Outrageous!
=]

*sigh* the hypocricy of political correctness.

Modifié par melkathi, 14 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[Xanfyrst]

Why black people live in the north and white people in the south, unlike in our world? Because the planet that DA:O world is happening on might have a different axial tilt, where it's generally colder in the south than in the north?

[King Killoth]

what you mean no davercity Sten is a 7 foot black guy

[maxernst]

I think it makes sense in the context of Ferelden. I am kind of hoping that in DA 2 we might get to see a little more of the world. I want to play in Val Royeaux and Antiva.

[Funny_chan]

How about the Qunari? I always thought that they look similar to real world black people.

[Darkga]

metatheurgist wrote...

*sigh* the hypocricy of political correctness.

*sigh* <_<

diversity != political correctness

I personally do not have a problem with the racial makeup of Ferelden. As long as I can make my character look how I want he or she to look, I'm satisfied. Maybe Bioware will tell the tales of "black" races in a future expansion... maybe something like TES : Redguard.

[GEWill]

David Gaider wrote...

You'll find dark-skinned people in the nation of Rivain, which is quite a ways off to the north. This far south those of Rivaini descent (like Duncan, though he is half-Rivaini) are fairly rare. Ferelden is analogous to medieval England, which it is a fictionalized version of.

Could we have included more ethnicities? Certainly -- but our intent was to create an internally consistent setting, not to reflect ethnic diversity as it's found in our own world in modern times. You can create whatever appearance you wish (I'll point out you can make your character look old, as well, despite the assumption within the game that you are young) though it's been mentioned before that we might have considered making in-game parents match skin tone/hair color. It's something we'll keep in mind as a possibility for the future.

Hope that answers your concern.

Excellent. That answers my question perfectly. I kind of figured that the team was loosely basing it on medieval Europe, but the England comparison makes sense and would explain why you wouldn't really see many dark skined people.

I understand you can't please everyone, but it just struck me as weird that the only dark skinned person I see is that guy ranting near the Chantry in Lothering at the start of the game and after that I honestly can't remember seeing anymore the rest of the game.

Thanks for taking the time to address it.

[aries1001]

Regarding that the south is colder than the north in Thedas, could it maybe, just maybe be that Thedas is located on the southern hemisphere or is spun differentially than our planet is?



As for black men or women in the game, Ferelden etc. are representing England in the high middle ages. And while there were some black men or women in England, especially at High Court (at the King's side), most people back then had not seen a black men or a black woman. If they had, it would most like have been 1) an arab or 2) a nubian slave (which was very expensive). Nubians came from Egypt or their neighbouring countries in what today is Somalia or maybe Kenya.



I've always thought the Qunari in the game more represented or were similar to the arb world or culture, but that's just me...

[GEWill]

Funny_chan wrote...

How about the Qunari? I always thought that they look similar to real world black people.

You can't be serious!

[GEWill]

aries1001 wrote...

Regarding that the south is colder than the north in Thedas, could it maybe, just maybe be that Thedas is located on the southern hemisphere or is spun differentially than our planet is?.

Well the dev team got that right at least. We black folks DO NOT like could weather so Ferelden can keep that. I will take Rivaini's warmer climate any time.

[soteria]

Some of us white folks aren't too fond of it, either.

[GEWill]

Draelorn wrote...

Well we can whittle away all we want, but the truth is people in fantasy are white. The history, the legends. It's an interesting subject that we dont talk about. I would have you look at mass effect 2.

The Mass Effect universe has diversity and rightly so because it represents humans, humanoids, etc. Anderson and various other dark skinned people could be found all over ME1 and ME2 adds another by having Jacob.

I never expected Dragon Age to do what ME has done in their lore, but it was just something that kind of shocked me (albeit it after playing over 150 hours).

Its not really a big deal, but it just kind of bugged me that my in-game brother and parents were white rather than black, etc.

Gaider pretty much explained it all very well so its all clear to me now. I just hope we can travel to Rivaini in the near future.

[MacroSamurai]

We should also consider that (since someone made a parallel to how medieval England had dark-skinned people due to things such as slavery and the like) slavery in Ferelden, at least the enslavement of humans, isn't commonplace. Hence the whole Ferelden freeman thing. That's my take on it anyway (based on information gathered from the Dragon Age P&P). In any case, I'm excited to see people of other backgrounds in future DA games.