It is no where close in religious outlooks though. And imo they have just a few similarities.GEWill wrote...
The Qunari would be Middle Eastern, or at least in religious outlooks.
Diversity in Thedas....
Débuté par
GEWill
, févr. 14 2010 06:52
#51
Posté 14 février 2010 - 08:35
Randomname1212
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Retour en haut
#52
Posté 14 février 2010 - 08:42
GEWill
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Randomname1212 wrote...
It is no where close in religious outlooks though. And imo they have just a few similarities.GEWill wrote...
The Qunari would be Middle Eastern, or at least in religious outlooks.
Actually the Qun and Islam have more than a couple similarities in this game.
#53
Posté 14 février 2010 - 08:54
Yozaro
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It's a fantasy game with a made-up world. I don't understand how somebody can possibly wonder why some specific race/nation/religion is not represented in the game.
And why is it that players only wonder why there is no black people (though Gaider told that there actually is black people)? Because they are the only ones not shown? No, can't be the reason, since I didn't see any Asian people or any signs of Christians, Jews or Muslims in the game either.
And why is it that players only wonder why there is no black people (though Gaider told that there actually is black people)? Because they are the only ones not shown? No, can't be the reason, since I didn't see any Asian people or any signs of Christians, Jews or Muslims in the game either.
#54
Posté 14 février 2010 - 09:05
soteria
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Because OBVIOUSLY blacks, asians, christians, jews, and muslims all are from the same category.
#55
Posté 14 février 2010 - 09:14
Bryy_Miller
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Randomname1212 wrote...
He is probably a troll.
Honestly, you guys fall for the most obvious stuff.
#56
Posté 14 février 2010 - 09:14
Joseph395
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soteria wrote...
Because OBVIOUSLY blacks, asians, christians, jews, and muslims all are from the same category.
I'm telling you, blacks are Genlocks, jews are Hurlocks and charlies are Shrieks.
#57
Posté 14 février 2010 - 09:34
Sloth Of Doom
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King Killoth wrote...
what you mean no davercity Sten is a 7 foot black guy
Sten isn't human.
#58
Posté 14 février 2010 - 09:35
Sloth Of Doom
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Yay, double post.
If only we had a freakin delete button.
If only we had a freakin delete button.
Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 14 février 2010 - 09:36 .
#59
Posté 14 février 2010 - 10:22
Funny_chan
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I'm glad that I'm not the only one that noticed their physical resemblance, joey_mork84.
BTW, this Joseph395 should be banned for what he said.
And... NinjaWJ, I always thought that Liselle, a merchant from Denerim Market District resembled an asian.
BTW, this Joseph395 should be banned for what he said.
And... NinjaWJ, I always thought that Liselle, a merchant from Denerim Market District resembled an asian.
#60
Posté 14 février 2010 - 10:55
atomicbunny
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There are the options when creating your character to be your favorite ethnicity, so that just makes you more unique.
#61
Posté 14 février 2010 - 10:56
_Ermehtar_
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I think the reason for the lack of ethnic diversity in these types of Fantasy has roots with the creatures.
Elves,Dwarfs,trolls, etc. in RPGS have always been closely tied to Tolkiens middle-earth. He based his creatures on the celtic,anglo-saxon and norse mythology. And most of the folks we meet in LOTHR are from cultures similar to those mentioned above. While tolkien also included the Oliphants and Harad, they never became as popular as the elves and dwarfs.
Hench so many fantasy rpgs at the core are from typical European medival settings.
But should we ever be in a fantasy world with Dijiins,Efreetis and Rakshasa etc. You can bet your arse you will be in an arabic setting.
Elves,Dwarfs,trolls, etc. in RPGS have always been closely tied to Tolkiens middle-earth. He based his creatures on the celtic,anglo-saxon and norse mythology. And most of the folks we meet in LOTHR are from cultures similar to those mentioned above. While tolkien also included the Oliphants and Harad, they never became as popular as the elves and dwarfs.
Hench so many fantasy rpgs at the core are from typical European medival settings.
But should we ever be in a fantasy world with Dijiins,Efreetis and Rakshasa etc. You can bet your arse you will be in an arabic setting.
#62
Posté 14 février 2010 - 11:37
GEWill
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Yozaro wrote...
It's a fantasy game with a made-up world. I don't understand how somebody can possibly wonder why some specific race/nation/religion is not represented in the game.
And why is it that players only wonder why there is no black people (though Gaider told that there actually is black people)? Because they are the only ones not shown? No, can't be the reason, since I didn't see any Asian people or any signs of Christians, Jews or Muslims in the game either.
Gaider didn't specifically say there were black people, he simply said that darker skinned people exist to the North.
You probably don't understand it because you're probably white and white people are represented in EVERY video game ever made. You've probably never thought that someone who isn't white might want to see that their in-game avatars has parents or other citizens that are the same ethnicity as their created character.
Your statement about christians, jews, or muslims is pretty ridiculous considering that religious beliefs has ZERO to do with ethnicity.
#63
Posté 14 février 2010 - 11:50
Jolly Jenkins
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Sadly, I am the only dark elf in all of Thedas. 
How I came to be is one of the greatest mysteries in Dragon Age.
How I came to be is one of the greatest mysteries in Dragon Age.
Modifié par Jolly Jenkins, 14 février 2010 - 11:50 .
#64
Posté 15 février 2010 - 01:00
joey_mork84
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Joseph395 wrote...
soteria wrote...
Because OBVIOUSLY blacks, asians, christians, jews, and muslims all are from the same category.
I'm telling you, blacks are Genlocks, jews are Hurlocks and charlies are Shrieks.
I'm surprised he's still posting this racist garbage. Biggits never have anything useful to say, so why do they bother speaking or typing in the first place?
Well, I guess racist reincarnated Hitlers are immune to the ban-hammer... It's amazing what some people can get away with and not be punished and yet some threads are closed almost immediately when someone loses his/her temper over a glitch... It truly is amazing.
#65
Posté 15 février 2010 - 01:01
joey_mork84
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Funny_chan wrote...
BTW, this Joseph395 should be banned for what he said.
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#66
Posté 15 février 2010 - 01:07
Thibbledorf26
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I dunno why some people are getting all 'omg political correctnezz is so lame' when the thread was just enquiring why 'no' black characters were really represented in the game, there was no vitriol in the first post. The dev answer was pretty satisfying. Although I think there were some black characters in the game, the chasinds, some priests, one of the visiting mages in the mage origin for example. Sten does not count because he is not human.
And the people saying all characters in fantasy and mythology are white are just plain wrong. You will find there is a considerable amount of mythology and history in most countries in the world. People outside Europe even used... *gasp* swords and had *gasp* dragon-like monsters in their mythologies!
And the people saying all characters in fantasy and mythology are white are just plain wrong. You will find there is a considerable amount of mythology and history in most countries in the world. People outside Europe even used... *gasp* swords and had *gasp* dragon-like monsters in their mythologies!
#67
Posté 15 février 2010 - 01:09
Herr Uhl
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Thibbledorf26 wrote...
And the people saying all characters in fantasy and mythology are white are just plain wrong. You will find there is a considerable amount of mythology and history in most countries in the world. People outside Europe even used... *gasp* swords and had *gasp* dragon-like monsters in their mythologies!
*shakes fist at Jade Empire*
#68
Posté 15 février 2010 - 01:16
purplesunset
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I've been thinking about this, and I've come to the conclusion that the main reason why these topics come up is because of the nature of the Origin Stories.
The Origin stories were written with very specific characters in mind (e.g. you're the daughter of a noble family). This in itself greatly narrows down the choices of what kind of character would fit in seamlessly.
The one and only reason why playing a black character might make you feel like a fish out of water is because Dragon Age:Origins has......drumroll.... Origin stories.
It has nothing to do with "not pandering to political correctness."
It has nothing to do with "not reflecting the racial diversity in our modern world."
It has nothing to do with "maintaining an internally consistent setting."
----- Introducing diversity does not necessarily = ruining your setting's internal consistency.---
The Elder Scroll series have an internally consistent setting, and yet
it is possible to play diverse looking characters in that game without feeling like you don't fit in. Why is this? What's the difference between DA and TES.
The one main difference between DA and TES is... the Origin stories.
The Bioware writers wrote the Origin Stories with very specific characters in mind. Those characters are all white. There is nothing wrong with this. There is nothing racist about this. Bioware has every right to do whatever they want. As someone above pointed out, it has more to do with people writing about what they are familiar with.
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Now, if they wanted, they could have written at least one Origin story in a trading town where different ethnicites congregate to buy and sell goods. This way, Fereldan could still be racially homogenous, and "internally consistent" but the player could use any character and still fit into a trading town with many different ethinicities.
Instead, they chose to write the Origin stories with specific characters of a specific race in mind. And they were nice enough to give us the opportunity to use anyone we want to play the role. It's like a theater giving Denzel Washington the opportunity to play Hamlet. Hamlet is still the same character written by Shakespeare, but the person playing him could look however they want.
It's the Origin stories which were written with very specific characters in mind, and those characters were invariably white. That's it. There is nothing sinister or racist about this. It's just like how Hamlet is a very specific character. Bioware gave us the oportunity to use any person (whether asian, black, or elderly) to play the role.
So can we PLEASE STOP bringing up "political correctness", or "racial quotas" and their detrimental effect on "internal consistency." ? Bringing up "political correctness" is somewhat of a red herring. The OP did not ask for political correctness.
The Origin stories, and the specific nature of the characters that Bioware had in mind when they wrote those Origin stories, are the main reason for why things are the way they are in Dragon Age. If you don't want to feel like an outsider, then don't play a character that is incongruent with the Origin story.
(P.S. I am aware that I repeated myself a lot, but on messageboards, people are so prone to wildly misinterpret. Hopefully I spelled things out enough. Perhaps even too much
)
The Origin stories were written with very specific characters in mind (e.g. you're the daughter of a noble family). This in itself greatly narrows down the choices of what kind of character would fit in seamlessly.
The one and only reason why playing a black character might make you feel like a fish out of water is because Dragon Age:Origins has......drumroll.... Origin stories.
It has nothing to do with "not pandering to political correctness."
It has nothing to do with "not reflecting the racial diversity in our modern world."
It has nothing to do with "maintaining an internally consistent setting."
----- Introducing diversity does not necessarily = ruining your setting's internal consistency.---
The Elder Scroll series have an internally consistent setting, and yet
it is possible to play diverse looking characters in that game without feeling like you don't fit in. Why is this? What's the difference between DA and TES.
The one main difference between DA and TES is... the Origin stories.
The Bioware writers wrote the Origin Stories with very specific characters in mind. Those characters are all white. There is nothing wrong with this. There is nothing racist about this. Bioware has every right to do whatever they want. As someone above pointed out, it has more to do with people writing about what they are familiar with.
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Now, if they wanted, they could have written at least one Origin story in a trading town where different ethnicites congregate to buy and sell goods. This way, Fereldan could still be racially homogenous, and "internally consistent" but the player could use any character and still fit into a trading town with many different ethinicities.
Instead, they chose to write the Origin stories with specific characters of a specific race in mind. And they were nice enough to give us the opportunity to use anyone we want to play the role. It's like a theater giving Denzel Washington the opportunity to play Hamlet. Hamlet is still the same character written by Shakespeare, but the person playing him could look however they want.
It's the Origin stories which were written with very specific characters in mind, and those characters were invariably white. That's it. There is nothing sinister or racist about this. It's just like how Hamlet is a very specific character. Bioware gave us the oportunity to use any person (whether asian, black, or elderly) to play the role.
So can we PLEASE STOP bringing up "political correctness", or "racial quotas" and their detrimental effect on "internal consistency." ? Bringing up "political correctness" is somewhat of a red herring. The OP did not ask for political correctness.
The Origin stories, and the specific nature of the characters that Bioware had in mind when they wrote those Origin stories, are the main reason for why things are the way they are in Dragon Age. If you don't want to feel like an outsider, then don't play a character that is incongruent with the Origin story.
(P.S. I am aware that I repeated myself a lot, but on messageboards, people are so prone to wildly misinterpret. Hopefully I spelled things out enough. Perhaps even too much
)
Modifié par purplesunset, 15 février 2010 - 02:22 .
#69
Posté 15 février 2010 - 02:27
Mlai00
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Summary:
1. Why are the troll posters not banned for making **extremely** inflammatory remarks, but ppl posting mild spoilers have their messages edited within 10 minutes?
2. Most likely, on DAO's fantasy planet, Fereldan (and the continent of Thedas) is in the Southern Hemisphere, where the south is colder and the north is warmer (nearer to the Equator). However, the migratory patterns of primitive humans can be more important to the "skin color distribution" than where they originally developed their skin tone. For example, the Qunari were dark before they ever invaded Thedas. If they happened to have landed at Fereldan first (though they wouldn't want to because they like warmer climates), then Fereldan would be "darker" today despite being colder.
3. There are no "black slaves" in Fereldan because the elves are the underclass/serfs/slaves. It is ignorant to automatically equate darker people as the underclass/serfs/slaves, and you are causing more harm than good by suggesting that Fereldan can have populations of blacks by introducing them as medieval slaves. That is an entirely modern and ethnocentrically European concept.
4. The Qunari are dark because they originated in sunnier climates. They are *not* dark because they're supposed to represent black people. That is all skin color is: whether your people spent the last 50,000 years near the Equator.
5. The Qun remind us of Islam on the surface, because the Qunari have some cultural similarities to Arabs. However, you can see philosophical influences other than Islam in the Qun. Also, Arabs had plenty of history and philosophy *before* Islam.
6. Yes, Sten went berserk. But (1)he is not Black, and (2)he is not Muslim. Also, you'd have to conclude that all Wiccans are ****s, all Spanish are bisexual murderers, and White ppl are such annoying evangelist Christians because 1 out of every 10 white baby born turns out to be a psychopathic Satanist.
1. Why are the troll posters not banned for making **extremely** inflammatory remarks, but ppl posting mild spoilers have their messages edited within 10 minutes?
2. Most likely, on DAO's fantasy planet, Fereldan (and the continent of Thedas) is in the Southern Hemisphere, where the south is colder and the north is warmer (nearer to the Equator). However, the migratory patterns of primitive humans can be more important to the "skin color distribution" than where they originally developed their skin tone. For example, the Qunari were dark before they ever invaded Thedas. If they happened to have landed at Fereldan first (though they wouldn't want to because they like warmer climates), then Fereldan would be "darker" today despite being colder.
3. There are no "black slaves" in Fereldan because the elves are the underclass/serfs/slaves. It is ignorant to automatically equate darker people as the underclass/serfs/slaves, and you are causing more harm than good by suggesting that Fereldan can have populations of blacks by introducing them as medieval slaves. That is an entirely modern and ethnocentrically European concept.
4. The Qunari are dark because they originated in sunnier climates. They are *not* dark because they're supposed to represent black people. That is all skin color is: whether your people spent the last 50,000 years near the Equator.
5. The Qun remind us of Islam on the surface, because the Qunari have some cultural similarities to Arabs. However, you can see philosophical influences other than Islam in the Qun. Also, Arabs had plenty of history and philosophy *before* Islam.
6. Yes, Sten went berserk. But (1)he is not Black, and (2)he is not Muslim. Also, you'd have to conclude that all Wiccans are ****s, all Spanish are bisexual murderers, and White ppl are such annoying evangelist Christians because 1 out of every 10 white baby born turns out to be a psychopathic Satanist.
#70
Posté 15 février 2010 - 07:41
GEWill
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Thibbledorf26 wrote...
I dunno why some people are getting all 'omg political correctnezz is so lame' when the thread was just enquiring why 'no' black characters were really represented in the game, there was no vitriol in the first post. The dev answer was pretty satisfying.
I knew when I first posted that it would bring out some of the idiots, but I really just focus on the posts that actually contribute to my original question. David Gaider did a good job in clearing up things, but I still would like to see the game have a couple changes so that my origin story actually makes sense rather than me feeling like my character was adopted or is the last black man in all of Thedas.
#71
Posté 15 février 2010 - 08:52
Joseph395
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When designing the Darkspawn, character artists probably had hard time deciding which one is worse, black or crippled. They just ended up combining those two, I guess.
#72
Posté 15 février 2010 - 08:59
AlanC9
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He's the last black man in Ferelden, not Thedas.
#73
Posté 15 février 2010 - 11:53
ejikvkaske
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Hmm, this may be purely speculation on my part, since Duncan, who is half Ferelden, is the only character of Rivaini decent I can recall seeing. Anyway, let's look at Duncan. Even though he has dark skin and black hair, he does not exhibit any facial features typical to members of the black african race (sorry I don't know what's the scientific term for it). If anything, he looks more middle eastern. Compare him to Barack Obama, who's also half african half white, and well, you see the difference.GEWill wrote...
I knew when I first posted that it would bring out some of the idiots, but I really just focus on the posts that actually contribute to my original question. David Gaider did a good job in clearing up things, but I still would like to see the game have a couple changes so that my origin story actually makes sense rather than me feeling like my character was adopted or is the last black man in all of Thedas.
Which brings me to my point. Gaider wrote that there are dark skinned people in Rivain. From what we've seen of Duncan, they could be dark skinned and yet look completely different from black africans. I'm not sure that's the Rivaini are quite what you're looking for. For all we know, they could potentially be dark skinned middle easterns.
Modifié par ejikvkaske, 15 février 2010 - 11:55 .
#74
Posté 15 février 2010 - 12:15
Sabriana
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Btw, the upset Chasind isn't the only dark skinned person in game. There are some dark skinned elves bouncing around in the Dalish camp as well.
But I agree, I'd love to see more of Thedas as well.
But I agree, I'd love to see more of Thedas as well.
#75
Posté 15 février 2010 - 12:29
Yozaro
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And what's your point?soteria wrote...
Because OBVIOUSLY blacks, asians, christians, jews, and muslims all are from the same category.
Just because there is something in the real world, doesn't mean it has to be the same way in a fantasy world. DAO doesn't have to have blacks, asians or any real religion represented. Neither does white people. DAO could also have only black people and still it would NOT be racist.
