1118 réponses à ce sujet

[Curlain]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Elvhen. The Warden's spirit died alongside the Archdemon's. If the Warden somehow survived, then wouldn't the Archdemon survive as well?
Ressurection is possible in a fantasy world, we are not arguing that. But then the "ultimate" sacrifice would have been meaningless. It's no sacrifice at all. Mind you the US ending is not my "main" playthrough, but I still find it annoying. Whatever emotion that the US ending stirred up would have been for noting.
The only way they could make a ressurected Warden interesting is for him to have both his spirit and the archdemon within him, both of which are struggling for ocntrol. That would be a good story, but I doubt it will happen.

Indeed if they went with something like that, it could be really interesting, but as you say I don't think that they would (as it would be virtually the main plot for that Warden in it's own right, such as being a Bhaalspawn was in BG or being a spirit-eater in MotB)

[Feraele]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Elvhen. The Warden's spirit died alongside the Archdemon's. If the Warden somehow survived, then wouldn't the Archdemon survive as well?
Ressurection is possible in a fantasy world, we are not arguing that. But then the "ultimate" sacrifice would have been meaningless. It's no sacrifice at all. Mind you the US ending is not my "main" playthrough, but I still find it annoying. Whatever emotion that the US ending stirred up would have been for noting.
The only way they could make a ressurected Warden interesting is for him to have both his spirit and the archdemon within him, both of which are struggling for ocntrol. That would be a good story, but I doubt it will happen.

Now THAT would be interesting..

[SwordsmanofShadow]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Elvhen. The Warden's spirit died alongside the Archdemon's. If the Warden somehow survived, then wouldn't the Archdemon survive as well?

The only way they could make a ressurected Warden interesting is for him to have both his spirit and the archdemon within him, both of which are struggling for ocntrol. That would be a good story, but I doubt it will happen.

This is what I have been wondering about. What exactely does 'somehow survived' imply? I'm not saying Bioware potentially spoil the story (possible Warden/Archdemon connection) but if it's just a retcon of your coices, I would love some clarification so I know which save to go with.

[Feraele]

SwordsmanofShadow wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Elvhen. The Warden's spirit died alongside the Archdemon's. If the Warden somehow survived, then wouldn't the Archdemon survive as well?

The only way they could make a ressurected Warden interesting is for him to have both his spirit and the archdemon within him, both of which are struggling for ocntrol. That would be a good story, but I doubt it will happen.

This is what I have been wondering about. What exactely does 'somehow survived' imply? I'm not saying Bioware potentially spoil the story (possible Warden/Archdemon connection) but if it's just a retcon of your coices, I would love some clarification so I know which save to go with.

Currently I am not willing to "sacrifice" that run-through to find out that ..again the Ultimate Sacrifice is not recognized...hence I definitely need clarification..before doing anything with that file for sure.

[KnightofPhoenix]

SwordsmanofShadow wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Elvhen. The Warden's spirit died alongside the Archdemon's. If the Warden somehow survived, then wouldn't the Archdemon survive as well?

The only way they could make a ressurected Warden interesting is for him to have both his spirit and the archdemon within him, both of which are struggling for ocntrol. That would be a good story, but I doubt it will happen.

This is what I have been wondering about. What exactely does 'somehow survived' imply? I'm not saying Bioware potentially spoil the story (possible Warden/Archdemon connection) but if it's just a retcon of your coices, I would love some clarification so I know which save to go with.

Yes we need clarifications. The game will be out in one month.

They shouldn't spoil it or anything. But they should clarify whether the "somehow survived" is an actual plot twist, or just a retcon.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 15 février 2010 - 03:31 .

[T1l]

I guess I'm lucky I have a save file just before the Landsmeet. I can re-do my ending so that I live.

I guess Alistair will take one for the team and end up bedding Morrigan for me; if it comes down to either playing a pre-fabricated Orlesian with a generic story, or my character, my choices and Alistair having to sex up his half-sister... I guess Alistair is just going to have to man up!

"You're not serious, are you!?"

"Sorry Bro! It's either this or nothing in Awakening!"

AHAH... oh, wow. I hope it doesn't come to that.

[Korvayer]

flem1 wrote...

spottyblanket wrote...

Hamster :3 The game should have hamsters...

Boo does appear in ME2.

Shameless advertisement...

Love it!

[Elvhen Veluthil]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Elvhen. The Warden's spirit
died alongside the Archdemon's. If the Warden somehow survived, then
wouldn't the Archdemon survive as well?
Ressurection is possible in a
fantasy world, we are not arguing that. But then the "ultimate"
sacrifice would have been meaningless. It's no sacrifice at all. Mind
you the US ending is not my "main" playthrough, but I still find it
annoying. Whatever emotion that the US ending stirred up would have been
for noting.
The only way they could make a ressurected Warden
interesting is for him to have both his spirit and the archdemon within
him, both of which are struggling for ocntrol. That would be a good
story, but I doubt it will happen.

That would be a good
story indeed. I understand that people that sacrificed themselves (I
didn't, Morrigan's child) want to see their choice to be recognized, and
I think it should. Resurrection in this case is a cheap way of pleasing
people that take role-playing very lightly. But still I like
resurrection as a mechanism, and I am saying that it's not impossible in
the DA world as we know it, so I wouldn't mind if it was introduced in
the game somehow.

But in the Morrigan's child case, the soul of
the Archdemon travels to the child. So soul travel is possible. Souls
are immortal and travel to Fade. Apparently somehow your soul found a
way to return to your body. Or someone used an one-use artifact of
Andraste to bring you back. I can't think of any other way to have died
and continue the game with the same character beside resurrection.

[Feraele]

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Elvhen. The Warden's spirit
died alongside the Archdemon's. If the Warden somehow survived, then
wouldn't the Archdemon survive as well?
Ressurection is possible in a
fantasy world, we are not arguing that. But then the "ultimate"
sacrifice would have been meaningless. It's no sacrifice at all. Mind
you the US ending is not my "main" playthrough, but I still find it
annoying. Whatever emotion that the US ending stirred up would have been
for noting.
The only way they could make a ressurected Warden
interesting is for him to have both his spirit and the archdemon within
him, both of which are struggling for ocntrol. That would be a good
story, but I doubt it will happen.

That would be a good
story indeed. I understand that people that sacrificed themselves (I
didn't, Morrigan's child) want to see their choice to be recognized, and
I think it should. Resurrection in this case is a cheap way of pleasing
people that take role-playing very lightly. But still I like
resurrection as a mechanism, and I am saying that it's not impossible in
the DA world as we know it, so I wouldn't mind if it was introduced in
the game somehow.

But in the Morrigan's child case, the soul of
the Archdemon travels to the child. So soul travel is possible. Souls
are immortal and travel to Fade. Apparently somehow your soul found a
way to return to your body. Or someone used an one-use artifact of
Andraste to bring you back. I can't think of any other way to have died
and continue the game with the same character beside resurrection.

OR maybe that "benevolent spirit" that guards Wynne reached out and grabbed you back from the abyss.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...
But in the Morrigan's child case, the soul of
the Archdemon travels to the child. So soul travel is possible. Souls
are immortal and travel to Fade. Apparently somehow your soul found a
way to return to your body. Or someone used an one-use artifact of
Andraste to bring you back. I can't think of any other way to have died
and continue the game with the same character beside resurrection.

I know this isn't clarified, but what I understood is that both the Archdemon's and the Warden's spirit are obliterated entirely and do not go to the fade. It is indeed the ultimate sacrifice, which is the whole motto of the Wardens. 

At least that's what I understood, I could be wrong. 

I understand mechanics wise, it coudl work. But it would be very cheap. Make it an option to the few who want to do it, fine. But to not allow us to import our dead warden's decisions is just sad. It would have added alot of mystique to the our prievous PC, wtinessed through the eyes of the Orlesian Warden. That is the only way we can get attached to the new guy. 

[Feraele]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Elvhen Veluthil wrote...
But in the Morrigan's child case, the soul of
the Archdemon travels to the child. So soul travel is possible. Souls
are immortal and travel to Fade. Apparently somehow your soul found a
way to return to your body. Or someone used an one-use artifact of
Andraste to bring you back. I can't think of any other way to have died
and continue the game with the same character beside resurrection.

I know this isn't clarified, but what I understood is that both the Archdemon's and the Warden's spirit are obliterated entirely and do not go to the fade. It is indeed the ultimate sacrifice, which is the whole motto of the Wardens. 

At least that's what I understood, I could be wrong. 

I understand mechanics wise, it coudl work. But it would be very cheap. Make it an option to the few who want to do it, fine. But to not allow us to import our dead warden's decisions is just sad. It would have added alot of mystique to the our prievous PC, wtinessed through the eyes of the Orlesian Warden. That is the only way we can get attached to the new guy. 

Actually you are right..how it is explained is..because darkspawn are "souless husks or shells' its very easy for the Archdemon if dying to take over one of those.   

Whereas with the Warden,  they have the taint, but they still have a largely intact soul (assuming here) so the first target an Archdemon would choose is that of the Warden to transfer souls,  unless..it has been attracted by an unborn embryo...with no advanced soul..then it would go there.  Ala Morrigan's ritual.

At least thats how I understood it.

But yes, if the Archdemon's soul transfers to the Warden..both souls are destroyed.

Modifié par Feraele, 15 février 2010 - 04:23 .

[RPGlover732]

I am very confused...



I did the US, and im as pissed as all of you, but in the expalntion it says basicly " you can import your dead character to awakening but that means he didnt do the US, f*** the story!"



Some of you are saying it could be a plot twost... but it already says in the thing you did not do the US

[RPGlover732]

Edit: Double Post

Modifié par RPGlover732, 15 février 2010 - 05:03 .

[Feraele]

RPGlover732 wrote...

I am very confused...

I did the US, and im as pissed as all of you, but in the expalntion it says basicly " you can import your dead character to awakening but that means he didnt do the US, f*** the story!"

Some of you are saying it could be a plot twost... but it already says in the thing you did not do the US

Well we're confused about it too..to be honest, therefore we are asking for more clarification..but that might take some time.."if ever".

[Jezcentral]

They are just giving you the choice. Their words are: "2.3 – If my PC died at the end of Dragon Age: Origins how are they alive in Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening?

If a player wants to, they can import their "Dead Warden" into Awakening and play as them. For the story it's assumed that they didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived. A player would start as the same level with the same gear as their "Dead Warden". Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.

It's in their FAQ, at http://dragonage.bio.../awakening/faq/

My characters made the Ultimate Sacrifices, so I don't want to import them into Awakenings. I have the option to do so, but I don't have to, so I won't.

Sorry if this has been posted already, but there are too many pages to check through!

Modifié par Jezcentral, 15 février 2010 - 06:19 .

[Thaddeus Mynor]

its been brought up before. But I'm really really hoping that Bioware will decide to implement importing our Ultimate Sacrificed Wardens, allowing our choices to pass over, while letting our character to remain resting in peace.



I fully agree with Knight of Phoenix here too, it is just sad that we can't. Its weird how they're willing to throw canon out the window, to bring your warden back from death. but wont allow you to sensibly import your dead warden's choices & move on as a character affected by it. & also, That is the the main way to actually get us attached to a new main character.



I hope Bioware fixes this mistake.

[Feraele]

Jezcentral wrote...

They are just giving you the choice. Their words are: "2.3 – If my PC died at the end of Dragon Age: Origins how are they alive in Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening?

If a player wants to, they can import their "Dead Warden" into Awakening and play as them. For the story it's assumed that they didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived. A player would start as the same level with the same gear as their "Dead Warden". Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.

It's in their FAQ, at http://dragonage.bio.../awakening/faq/

My characters made the Ultimate Sacrifices, so I don't want to import them into Awakenings. I have the option to do so, but I don't have to, so I won't.

Sorry if this has been posted already, but there are too many pages to check through!

Yeah we know all that...and THAT choice is fine for someone who doesn't care about story lines..plot holes etc.

BUT if you already did that run-through all the way to the end...did the "heroic" self-sacrifice..ie: Ultimate Sacrifice..you are not going to be happy with that US being nullified, cast away, due to some folks wanting to play their dead warden.  

There are those of us that care more about the rpg aspect ..than the kill moar mobs and be uber aspect.

This dead warden rising from the tomb in Weisshopt scenario..ALSO nullifies or makes obsolete..the Dark Ritual story line.   In other words...you can always rely on playing your dead warden, and never have to do the ritual with Morrigan....and if you play your dead warden...you never ever made the the Ultimate Sacrifice..a hero's death.   It stops existing.

That breaks the continuity and immersion.

What we are saying is ...that information needs to pass ..from the dead warden, that choices need to be allowed.

So when you import your dead warden to Awakening..there are choices: 

1) you play your dead Warden as if nothing ever happened. 

OR  2) you import your dead warden and you opt to start the new Orlesian warden, WITH history of the former Grey Warden's death ..being passed to the Orlesian, so that the story continues without huge gaping holes in credibility and story line. 

  This could be done possibly in a short cut-scene with the new Orlesian grey warden or in a conversation that happens to pop up at the start.   Doesn't need a long intro.

[cephasjames]

Dethanos wrote...

If you don't like it, don't do it. Why complain about something that is optional?

Werd!

I like to actually role play in my role play games. So, when my charcater is dead I don't do anything that makes him not be dead. I'm really wrestling with this right now. I have this really cool character that I plan on having die in Origins but I would really like to keep her for Awakenings. What to do? What to do? But, whatever I decide, that's what I'm going to stick with. Because I'm in control of what I do or do not do.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Jezcentral wrote...

They are just giving you the choice. Their words are: "2.3 – If my PC died at the end of Dragon Age: Origins how are they alive in Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening?

If a player wants to, they can import their "Dead Warden" into Awakening and play as them. For the story it's assumed that they didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived. A player would start as the same level with the same gear as their "Dead Warden". Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.

It's in their FAQ, at http://dragonage.bio.../awakening/faq/

My characters made the Ultimate Sacrifices, so I don't want to import them into Awakenings. I have the option to do so, but I don't have to, so I won't.

Sorry if this has been posted already, but there are too many pages to check through!

Again, it is better to keep your mouth shut an appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. What people want is the following:

- Importation of CHOICES made by the US character, and then the creation of an Orlesian Warden.

As it stands, it SEEMS that this is not available. Note, nowhere is anyone asking for anyone else's choices to be limited, re: playing their US character as if it didn't happen, and so on.

[Cancermeat]

too bad they didn't put in a resurection spell in the game.

Modifié par Cancermeat, 15 février 2010 - 08:14 .

[JKJEDIKNIGHT]

While I didn't intend to import a "dead" warden in my awakening play through, I do see the problem here. If I remember correctly, and perhaps whoever said it, spoke wrong, or we interpreted it wrong, but when the information first came out about importing a character to Awakening, it was asked about importing the dead one, and it seemed as though the answer was that if you import the dead warden, then you automatically start with the Orlesian Warden, with all the previous imported characters choices and decisions passing through. I guess I had visions of travelling as the Orlesian and hearing about my previous Wardens tale and hearing his name spoken with great admiration. Guess that's not the case.

[Azure Zero]

Feraele wrote...


Yeah we know all that...and THAT choice is fine for someone who doesn't care about story lines..plot holes etc.

BUT if you already did that run-through all the way to the end...did the "heroic" self-sacrifice..ie: Ultimate Sacrifice..you are not going to be happy with that US being nullified, cast away, due to some folks wanting to play their dead warden.  

There are those of us that care more about the rpg aspect ..than the kill moar mobs and be uber aspect.

This dead warden rising from the tomb in Weisshopt scenario..ALSO nullifies or makes obsolete..the Dark Ritual story line.   In other words...you can always rely on playing your dead warden, and never have to do the ritual with Morrigan....and if you play your dead warden...you never ever made the the Ultimate Sacrifice..a hero's death.   It stops existing.

That breaks the continuity and immersion.

What we are saying is ...that information needs to pass ..from the dead warden, that choices need to be allowed.

So when you import your dead warden to Awakening..there are choices: 

1) you play your dead Warden as if nothing ever happened. 

OR  2) you import your dead warden and you opt to start the new Orlesian warden, WITH history of the former Grey Warden's death ..being passed to the Orlesian, so that the story continues without huge gaping holes in credibility and story line. 

  This could be done possibly in a short cut-scene with the new Orlesian grey warden or in a conversation that happens to pop up at the start.   Doesn't need a long intro.

This is one point I don't agree with, it doesn't break or affect the dark ritual ending. Your character does not know that they may magically  somehow survive due to this. So that storyline still works. We have that knowledge, our characters don't.

[TheRealIncarnal]

I REALLY hope that you can continue with a new Orlesian warden using the choices from your dead Warden. I simply could not ever use Elissa again. I was extremely invested in her character and it would not feel right to use her again now that she has been sacrificed. It would just seem wrong to do.

[FieryDove]

Maria Caliban wrote...

How utterly stupid.

I recall during the development when one of the writers said they wanted a setting where death had meaning. So much for that. Apparently ‘ultimate sacrifice’ is more like ‘temporary inconvenience.’

Honestly, I’d have thought that ME 2 showed how little BioWare cares about choices and consequences, but this is a new low.

Cerberus is just expanding is all, ferelden seems the next logical step, yes? No?

edited for sanity or insanity as the case may be.

Modifié par FieryDove, 15 février 2010 - 11:24 .

[Maedryc]

FieryDove wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

How utterly stupid.

I recall during the development when one of the writers said they wanted a setting where death had meaning. So much for that. Apparently ‘ultimate sacrifice’ is more like ‘temporary inconvenience.’

Honestly, I’d have thought that ME 2 showed how little BioWare cares about choices and consequences, but this is a new low.

What's wrong[...] bonkers?

 

...damn ^^'' I've not played ME2 yet. Can we keep the spoilers out of these threads? 

Back in topic...while my characters never did the US, I understand how you feel.
However, considering that the FAQ is not that clear on the matter, I hope the rumor is addressed and debunked.
Still, a clarification from a dev would be nice, one way or another.

Modifié par Maedryc, 15 février 2010 - 11:29 .