1118 réponses à ce sujet

[Rylor Tormtor]

f4k3s4nt4 wrote...

T1l wrote...
This was one of the things that made me srs-face as well; why would I pay 6 gold to re-spec when I can just use a mod and do it for free?

Why would you spend gold on anything in game since you can have a mod and do it for free?

Some people actually enjoy to play the game the way it was presented.

Ya, I mean, all those dirty cheaters who are using mods made by the official toolset, including ones made by the devs themselves.

Damnedable bastards!
<_<

[Maedryc]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

f4k3s4nt4 wrote...

T1l wrote...
This was one of the things that made me srs-face as well; why would I pay 6 gold to re-spec when I can just use a mod and do it for free?

Why would you spend gold on anything in game since you can have a mod and do it for free?

Some people actually enjoy to play the game the way it was presented.

Ya, I mean, all those dirty cheaters who are using mods made by the official toolset, including ones made by the devs themselves.

Damnedable bastards!
<_<

Man, why the snark? He didn't say that anyone who used an user made mod was cheating. Some people just prefer to keep their game unmodded, and they have all the rights to do so, since it's their game.
Still, it's nice that if someone doesn't want to resort to a mod, they can still respec their PCs for a paltry 6 gold now.

[RPGlover732]

They better not kick us US peole to the curb, i would lose alot of trust in bioware... and for along time they have been my fav

[RPGlover732]

Double post

Modifié par RPGlover732, 16 février 2010 - 09:21 .

[Alandros]

Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.

Basically you are given the choice, if you can't hand-waive it then don't. IMHO this is the best compromise, those who don't mind waiving it and want to continue a character that died they can if you feel you shouldn't then don't. Basically it's kind of like the honor system, if you are so high and mighty then you shouldn't have a problem *shrug*.

[Feraele]

Mods are good..they expand your game. Modders should be given credit ..after all they do it for free too. Next time you use someone's mod off the Nexus or whatever..be sure to put a thanks and a vote in for them if you enjoyed it.

[Feraele]

Alandros wrote...

Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.

Basically you are given the choice, if you can't hand-waive it then don't. IMHO this is the best compromise, those who don't mind waiving it and want to continue a character that died they can if you feel you shouldn't then don't. Basically it's kind of like the honor system, if you are so high and mighty then you shouldn't have a problem *shrug*.

THAT is not a choice.   Look into it carefully before you shrug it off.    Understanding..goes a long long way.

[Alandros]

Yes... you -choose- to import a dead character or you -choose- not to. Seems pretty evident.

[Dethanos]

T1l wrote...


This was one of the things that made me srs-face as well; why would I pay 6 gold to re-spec when I can just use a mod and do it for free? I guess this is directed at console owners?

Well, we don't know if the respec mod will work with the expansion on Day 1, and I'm sure I'll want to respec some of the new companions, especially considering how high their levels will be. Six gold isn't a lot at this point, and yeah, there's always the poor, poor console gamers.

[Feraele]

Azure Zero wrote...

Feraele wrote...


Yeah we know all that...and THAT choice is fine for someone who doesn't care about story lines..plot holes etc.

BUT if you already did that run-through all the way to the end...did the "heroic" self-sacrifice..ie: Ultimate Sacrifice..you are not going to be happy with that US being nullified, cast away, due to some folks wanting to play their dead warden.  

There are those of us that care more about the rpg aspect ..than the kill moar mobs and be uber aspect.

This dead warden rising from the tomb in Weisshopt scenario..ALSO nullifies or makes obsolete..the Dark Ritual story line.   In other words...you can always rely on playing your dead warden, and never have to do the ritual with Morrigan....and if you play your dead warden...you never ever made the the Ultimate Sacrifice..a hero's death.   It stops existing.

That breaks the continuity and immersion.

What we are saying is ...that information needs to pass ..from the dead warden, that choices need to be allowed.

So when you import your dead warden to Awakening..there are choices: 

1) you play your dead Warden as if nothing ever happened. 

OR  2) you import your dead warden and you opt to start the new Orlesian warden, WITH history of the former Grey Warden's death ..being passed to the Orlesian, so that the story continues without huge gaping holes in credibility and story line. 

  This could be done possibly in a short cut-scene with the new Orlesian grey warden or in a conversation that happens to pop up at the start.   Doesn't need a long intro.

This is one point I don't agree with, it doesn't break or affect the dark ritual ending. Your character does not know that they may magically  somehow survive due to this. So that storyline still works. We have that knowledge, our characters don't.

Yes WE have that knowledge...but why do the Dark Ritual if you know you can ALWAYS play your dead warden ...there are no repercussions.  Ultimate sacrifice becomes Ultimate get out of jail free card.

Thats perfectly FINE for those that don't care...will play through once or twice and toss the game aside.

Its not perfectly fine for me..and probably  others like me.  It creates a break in continuity...and really is NOT a choice or option.

They just stated..if you don't have a problem playing your dead warden (after being entombed at Weishopt and mourned by all your ingame companions)   then we don't have a problem either.    That creates a big hole in the story.  

Its like there was more to it..more written in..but they ran out of time and budget so only one part of the gamer population got their wish.   And thats the guys that could care less about the rpg aspects, story line..etc.

The rest of us, don't have a choice.   The reason that new Orlesian GW was offered up originally back when Awakenings was announced...they said if your PC died in the Ultimate Sacrifice that you could play the new Orlesian GW,..and your choices/decisions would be reflected in the Awakening Expansion.

Well they are not being reflected..they are being tossed in the dust bin. 

All  it would take is for a short conversation denoting something about the former GW that sacrificed their life to save Ferelden.   A short conversation..that gives that info to the new Orlesian GW.

And that would fill the gap/hole they have created by announcing that some folks can play their dead warden if they want to.

Otherwise...the results we are left with right now are not good enough.

Anyways still waiting on clarification...hope we hear something eventually.

[Skilled Seeker]

Dethanos wrote...

If you don't like it, don't do it. Why complain about something that is optional?

This. I don't see a problem with it really. You peeps blow everything way out of proportion.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 16 février 2010 - 09:41 .

[Dethanos]

Alandros wrote...

Yes... you -choose- to import a dead character or you -choose- not to. Seems pretty evident.

Evidently, you didn't bother to follow the discussion. The primary complaint of the people posting in this thread is that they cannot import their dead character's world state, leave him/her dead, and start a new warden. If they start a new warden, they're stuck with a default world state. None of the decisions their dead warden made will be reflected in the story.

Granted, the original post didn't seem to be about that, but that is where the discussion is now.

Edit: Yes, I said something similar on page 1, but that was page 1. The discussion has progressed since then.

Modifié par Dethanos, 16 février 2010 - 09:43 .

[Feraele]

Alandros wrote...

Yes... you -choose- to import a dead character or you -choose- not to. Seems pretty evident.

Yeah ...read my post above this one...obviously you are one of the ones that will play a dead warden and not care about the hole in the story.  

It basically deletes and denies the Ultimate Sacrifice ever happened.   Again ..thats great for those that yelled about not being able to play their dead warden.

Choice is:   play dead warden = no Ultimate Sacrifice...so in other words that story line doesn't exist.

Other choice is don't play dead warden = your decision is not carried over to the expansion,  the story line isn't recognized...you never did it.  

Modifié par Feraele, 16 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[Alandros]

Feraele wrote...

Alandros wrote...

Yes... you -choose- to import a dead character or you -choose- not to. Seems pretty evident.

Yeah ...read my post above this one...obviously you are one of the ones that will play a dead warden and not care about the hole in the story.  

Actually you pegged me wrong, I will not import a dead Warden, that character died, his story ends, period.

It basically deletes and denies the Ultimate Sacrifice ever happened.   Again ..thats great for those that yelled about not being able to play their dead warden.

Choice is:   play dead warden = no Ultimate Sacrifice...so in other words that story line doesn't exist.

Other choice is don't play dead warden = your decision is not carried over to the expansion,  the story line isn't recognized...you never did it.  

What you are suggesting creates even a bigger plot and RP hole.  If you made the ultimate sacrifice then you are dead, you are done, end of it all, hope you had fun.  Why would you continue on if your representation in the world were gone?  All of a sudden you possess a new character.  Sure that could be fun, but honestly that's a bigger RP hole, if you are dead and gone then you are such, to continue on despite sacrificing is a hole and cheap, you should start a new characters story then, considering you are a character in this world not just a meta observer of it all.  If your story ends then it ends and you made the sacrifice, not somehow get to experience the world despite being dead.

I would argue for what you said as an option (since I don't fault those who don't mind moving on with an RP hole).  That hole would be bigger than just "let's say you didn't die somehow" and more along the lines of "let's pretend death means nothing and you can continue on in a new person."

[Dave of Canada]

It all makes sense now, the explosion seen at the top of the prison in the ending was actually a radiation blast that knocked you and everybody else in your party out cold for two weeks. You wake up to find that the Grey Wardens have pushed the Darkspawn to the brink, but they need your help to attack while everybody stays unconscious for the duration of the expansion.



Once you're about the finish the Darkspawn - Oghren comes in on a dragon and yells at you to get on.

[Dave of Canada]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Dethanos wrote...

If you don't like it, don't do it. Why complain about something that is optional?

This. I don't see a problem with it really. You peeps blow everything way out of proportion.

Then you aren't much of a person who cares about storyline continuity, unlike most of the "original" Bioware fans.

[Skilled Seeker]

lol I am an 'original' Bioware fan thank you very much. But I don't see why allowing the option will negatively affect the storyline. Its an OPTION.

[flem1]

Well, review copies seem to be out, so nothing is going to change.



I've never seen an expansion retroactively ruining the original before, but this does a pretty good job. Hard choice? Bah!

[darrenr22]

Alandros wrote...

What you are suggesting creates even a bigger plot and RP hole.  If you made the ultimate sacrifice then you are dead, you are done, end of it all, hope you had fun.  Why would you continue on if your representation in the world were gone?  All of a sudden you possess a new character.  Sure that could be fun, but honestly that's a bigger RP hole, if you are dead and gone then you are such, to continue on despite sacrificing is a hole and cheap, you should start a new characters story then, considering you are a character in this world not just a meta observer of it all.  If your story ends then it ends and you made the sacrifice, not somehow get to experience the world despite being dead.

I would argue for what you said as an option (since I don't fault those who don't mind moving on with an RP hole). That hole would be bigger than just "let's say you didn't die somehow" and more along the lines of "let's pretend death means nothing and you can continue on in a new person."

You are so confused.

The option people are discussing, and which they want included in Awakening is the following: import an ultimate sacrifice epilogue save and play as the new Orlesian Grey Warden with the decisions taken in the orginal game which led up to the Warden's death reflected in the new story. Think of it as watching a movie, a sequel, which continues the original story but with a new protagonist since the original protagonist died.

This does not create a "plot and RP hole" of any form, never mind a "bigger" one. Precisely the opposite: it rigorously preserves continuity.

If you still cannot understand the issue I am not sure how it could be made any clearer.

Modifié par darrenr22, 16 février 2010 - 10:10 .

[Axis Swordarm]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Dethanos wrote...

If you don't like it, don't do it. Why complain about something that is optional?

This. I don't see a problem with it really. You peeps blow everything way out of proportion.

Then you aren't much of a person who cares about storyline continuity, unlike most of the "original" Bioware fans.

I've been hanging round since the earliest days and picked Baldurs Gate up on day one.  I only play for the story and the mechanics are secondary to how well Bioware do them.

Would it be nice to have Ultimate Sacrifice ending in there?  Sure would and this absolutely would have been considered (if it isn't the case already).  If not, well I suppose it gives me a chance to just straaight import my original character over and save myself the hassle of redoing a lot of the end game because I have so few saves.

If the option isn't there then there's a good reason for it and people trying to act like internet revolutionaries or proclaiming their preorder canceled and faith destroyed are making themselves seem ridiculous.  Stop being over dramatic and either wait for confirmation or look at it from a practical, reasonable viewpoint.  It's absolutely mind boggling to me how much abuse of those poor ellipses and gnashing of teeth there is over something unconfirmed.

[flem1]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

If the option isn't there then there's a good reason for it

Blind faith is not an argument.

[Axis Swordarm]

darrenr22 wrote...

If you still cannot understand the issue I am not sure how it could be made any clearer.

People are getting bent out of shape because the reaction to this has been so melodramatic.  It makes sense and is a very good option for sure, it hasn't been confirmed or denied either.

But if it doesn't exist then there is a reason for it, either based on time, zots or difficulties reconciling certain things and claiming Bioware are doing this intentionally to screw people is ridiculous. 

[Rylor Tormtor]

Alandros wrote...

Yes... you -choose- to import a dead character or you -choose- not to. Seems pretty evident.

Once again, we see idiocy in its most classical sense.

Let me reiterate for the nth time. Noone here cares if you import your dead warden to play or not. If you want to, great, knock yourself out, it is a single player game.

Here is what we care about: If one chooses to keep their warden dead and not play her/him, then all the choices you made in Origins are apparently null and void. Nada. Completely gone. No effect on the world of Orleisan Warden.

What people here would like is the ability to import the CHOICES you made, and play the new Orlesian Warden.

Simple, straight-foward.

[Axis Swordarm]

flem1 wrote...

Axis Swordarm wrote...

If the option isn't there then there's a good reason for it

Blind faith is not an argument.

Neither is expecting every single thing to go your way because you expect an expansion development team to have infinite resources.  I don't have blind faith, there's years of frank facts laid out on these boards about why certain things are done, and how they would have liked to do them.  Blind rage is even worse and that's what carries these threads for so many pages.

[flem1]

Axis Swordarm wrote...

I don't have blind faith, there's years of frank facts laid out on these boards about why certain things are done, and how they would have liked to do them.

Get over yourself.  There's been zero attempt at an explanation of this nonsensical decision, a glaring defect when it's obvious the devs are reading the threads (and in fact have been posting elsewhere).

All you have is your blind faith that "there *must* be a reason, there always is".  Of course there's always a reason.  The business side wants as cheap a product as possible to sell for the most possible money.  That's their reason, but guess what?  It won't make the game any more fun or more worth the high price tag *to us*.  Your "Bio never bombs" credo shouldn't have survived Warden's Keep or RtO.

Modifié par flem1, 16 février 2010 - 10:28 .