1118 réponses à ce sujet

[Dick Delaware]

The lack of romances doesn't bug me, it's the feeling I get that things are being rushed. I didn't buy DLC and chose the Dark Ritual, but the lack of it transferring, along with the lack of continuity for the Ultimate Sacrifice makes me concerned that a lot of things are being cut out.

[Shady314]

Feraele wrote...
Ultimate sacrifice warden.   Play Orlesian warden if your PC died saving Ferelden...that was what 3 weeks ago they told us that?

This is what I was ASKING. If there had been some sort of announcement/promise that you would be able to import the decisions of a dead Grey Warden. As far as I knew there had not been but I don't spend a lot of time here.

Now they are saying...oh by the way..your warden didn't really die saving Ferelden..the top of Fort Drakon just spontaneously combusted..and your warden miraculously lived through putting that sword in the Archdemons head.
Oh ..yeah and btw ..the entombment at Weisshaupt..along with the other honourable wardens that died killing archdemons?   That didn't happen either...
We were just kidding about the commemorative statue at the new Keep in Amaranthine.
Can't you gamers take a Bioware joke?  
uh huh.

But only if you import a dead Grey Warden. I wonder why they are bothering with that at all. If you die in ME2 they've said you won't be able to import into ME3. They should have just done the same for DA. If your PC dies his story is over period.

[Shady314]

darrenr22 wrote...
I think you misunderstand the context of the discussion.

No I got it. My question was whether this was people that felt owed or whether this was something that was actually promised.

It is not about whether something was promised, or whether Bioware are under any kind of obligation, although it does have some connection with what people believed they were being told by Bioware representatives.

Many people came to believe that a certain option would be implemented in the expansion, based on an interpretation of the mechanisms Bioware said they were including in Awakening.

Hence my question of whether this was a case of people's assumptions or a case of the devs backpedaling. 

It appears that that specific option will not be implemented (based on the current information). What many people are saying is that the relevant option is a reasonable and desirable one and failing to include it would be deleterious to their experience of the game.
There is nothing "silly" about that.

I already agreed this was "desirable" but we have no idea of it's reasonableness.

It's still all very silly. When I went through the US ending I expected death to be the end of my character's story period. Now people are mad their dead PC's story won't continue through the Orlesian Warden and I was wondering why some people ever thought it would.

[Red Frostraven]

Adanu wrote...

...

Of all the things to complain about, you pick this?

If you don't want your character to be around, then don't import him. In this case, gameplay trumps story. I had one character do the sacrifice. But I still want to play as him in the next one... so, I either make the new character , or I import my character and the story is changed so that being revived makes sense. I see no problems here. I only see people nitpicking minor details.

Nitpicking details like two revivals and that no decisions made in the original campaign mattering at all for the expansion?
...
...
I realize that your stat distribution matters more than the story for a VERY LARGE portion of the community, but this is FURTHER cutting away the roleplaying part of Roleplaying game -- making the Dragon Age series more like "a game" than a roleplaying game.

...
Which harms the chances of me buying Dragon Age: The Next Generation... but that is EA in a nutshell;
Minmax cost versus sales, and force developers to make something mediocre as fast as possible, and if the developers fail, sacrifice them and continue to have other developers make generic games in the trademark:
Dragon Age: Vacation!
The Sims: Dragon Age!
Dragon Age: Medieval Soccer Manager!
Lego: Dragon Age!

If Bioware lets themselves get toppled by, or stripped naked and left defiled, by EA, I assure you: Those titles WILL be in the stores within 2013.

Those, and dozens more, and Dragon age will EA's yearly and generic roleplaying milking machines like FIFA, Battlefield (beyond Battlefield 2) and the Sims.

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 17 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[spottyblanket]

Here is the real question: Do you think that peeple would complain IF you could not bring back your dead warden if you choose the US option in your game? I think people would complain actullay, saying that they have to start the whole game again just to carry over their character. This is probably why this bring back from the dead option exists. Simple logic really.

[Curlain]

But why not allow the option, allow us to upload the US save, and then give the option to start with the Orlesian Warden with the world data from our US save, or for those that wish to do the 'hand-waving' they can just choice to continue with the Warden themselves.



I'm sure there could be a way to do this at character creation/import save process. This way both players could be happy, including those of us who value continuity

[Shady314]

Curlain wrote...

But why not allow the option, allow us to upload the US save, and then give the option to start with the Orlesian Warden with the world data from our US save, or for those that wish to do the 'hand-waving' they can just choice to continue with the Warden themselves.

I'm sure there could be a way to do this at character creation/import save process. This way both players could be happy, including those of us who value continuity

Yes more is always better and no one on the internet could possibly complain if Bioware would just give them everything anyone ever asks for.

[Feraele]

spottyblanket wrote...

Here is the real question: Do you think that peeple would complain IF you could not bring back your dead warden if you choose the US option in your game? I think people would complain actullay, saying that they have to start the whole game again just to carry over their character. This is probably why this bring back from the dead option exists. Simple logic really.

People already did..why do you think the Devs announced that if we didn't mind our dead wardens walking around again..neither did they. 

Thats fine said before I don't begrudge someone playing THEIR GAME THAT WAY.

I just think we should have been given a cohesive carry over..with a short explanatory blurb ...to the new Orlesian warden.  Would have been enough to cover the plot hole and go on to play the Orlesian..without any further ado.

[Feraele]

Shady314 wrote...

Curlain wrote...

But why not allow the option, allow us to upload the US save, and then give the option to start with the Orlesian Warden with the world data from our US save, or for those that wish to do the 'hand-waving' they can just choice to continue with the Warden themselves.

I'm sure there could be a way to do this at character creation/import save process. This way both players could be happy, including those of us who value continuity

Yes more is always better and no one on the internet could possibly complain if Bioware would just give them everything anyone ever asks for.

We are asking for much less than those people that yelled about not being able to play their dead wardens.

[hmarcbower]

Red Frostraven wrote...

Dragon Age: Medieval Soccer Manager!

[Shady314]

Feraele wrote...
We are asking for much less than those people that yelled about not being able to play their dead wardens.

You are? How are you judging that? By whether or not it's what YOU care about? Play as your dead warden will probably be treated no differently than any living character imported into Awakenings. Work that was already done and commited to. They went to no extra work getting people to recognize you died. They will act as if you always lived. That must have been truly minor work. You'd have a point only if a dead Warden was imported and people treated them differently than a living one.

Playing as an Orlesian Warden AFTER the US requires many different treatments for the new Warden. It's all the work being alive entails but then more placed on top of it for being a new character. It SEEMS like a lot more work to me but of course as I am not a dev I really have no idea.

Modifié par Shady314, 17 février 2010 - 10:26 .

[tacopacabana]

Red Frostraven wrote...

Which harms the chances of me buying Dragon Age: The Next Generation... but that is EA in a nutshell;
Minmax cost versus sales, and force developers to make something mediocre as fast as possible, and if the developers fail, sacrifice them and continue to have other developers make generic games in the trademark:
Dragon Age: Vacation!
The Sims: Dragon Age!
Dragon Age: Medieval Soccer Manager!
Lego: Dragon Age!

baaaahahhahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa

everything (mostly) that bioware has done has struck gold, including this Dragon age: origins which is freakign PLATiNUM! so i don't see why DA 2 and even DA:A would be any less good (STORY WISE), there is FOOOORR SUUURRREEE a cohesive story to if your warden is present or not in the game. there must be and i trust that there is, and you should all too!

sure i mean the no romance and DLC sucks anus buuuutttt what ya gonna do eh?

[Curlain]

The game does manage to upload our character profiles to the websites without our characters though. Why is not something along these lines possible with the Orelsian Warden, a extra step during character creation for example that could upload details from a previous character save or something similar.



And if it really is to difficult them why not allow in the opening scene of the Orlesian Warden a scene to allow you to answer a series of questions to set those details in place (such as the system they used in KOTOR 2 in the opening dialogue with Atton) as this could be an effective compromise that shouldn't I think be to difficult to achieve (although again I guess I could be wrong, I'm no software programmer)

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

Feraele wrote...


No...you need to read through the thread...we are going on what the DEVS TOLD US.   Having no prior knowledge of ME...personally I am doing just that..going off the announcements in the Awakening thread...

Ultimate sacrifice warden.   Play Orlesian warden if your PC died saving Ferelden...that was what 3 weeks ago they told us that?

Now they are saying...oh by the way..your warden didn't really die saving Ferelden..the top of Fort Drakon just spontaneously combusted..and your warden miraculously lived through putting that sword in the Archdemons head.

Oh ..yeah and btw ..the entombment at Weisshaupt..along with the other honourable wardens that died killing archdemons?   That didn't happen either...

We were just kidding about the commemorative statue at the new Keep in Amaranthine.

Can't you gamers take a Bioware joke?  

uh huh.

I'd really like to see where devs said this specifically. Looking at the quote I dug up that confirmed that you wouldn't be able to import the world state of an old character to use with a new character, it's over a month old. Maybe a week or so after Awakening was announced formally. And yet people in this thread have been expecting to play a new character with the dead warden's choices until pretty much now. I'm a bit suspicious that people simply came to this conclusion on their own after hearing you'd be able to import the dead warden, which is understandable. It's the first idea that would come to a person's mind on the subject.

[Feraele]

Curlain wrote...

The game does manage to upload our character profiles to the websites without our characters though. Why is not something along these lines possible with the Orelsian Warden, a extra step during character creation for example that could upload details from a previous character save or something similar.

And if it really is to difficult them why not allow in the opening scene of the Orlesian Warden a scene to allow you to answer a series of questions to set those details in place (such as the system they used in KOTOR 2 in the opening dialogue with Atton) as this could be an effective compromise that shouldn't I think be to difficult to achieve (although again I guess I could be wrong, I'm no software programmer)

Well this is what we've been suggesting.  It doesn't have to be complicated or long and involved.

A simple conversation.  End of subject...new Warden knows what happened to the old warden.   On with the story.  Old warden remains dead...new warden takes over and starts recruiting for the Joining and membership with the GWs.

[Feraele]

And being that Ohgren is the "main" character in the upcoming Expansion, he could initiate the conversation with the new warden, and fill them in briefly. I don't see whats wrong with that..it covers the plot hole nicely and it gives a little nod to the Ultimate Sacrifice ending.

[darrenr22]

Shady314 wrote...

No I got it. My question was whether this was people that felt owed or whether this was something that was actually promised.

I would have thought the answer was plain from reading the thread. Although, admittedly, a significant number of errant posts have obscured matters.

Hence my question of whether this was a case of people's assumptions or a case of the devs backpedaling.

And I am happy to have answered your question.

It's still all very silly. When I went through the US ending I expected death to be the end of my character's story period. Now people are mad their dead PC's story won't continue through the Orlesian Warden and I was wondering why some people ever thought it would.

The bold section is really an incorrect characterisation of the situation. What people want, I think, is coherent story progression and continuity.

I am not sure why it is "silly", especially given that you have already acknowledged that it is "desirable". And as to why people are "mad" (I am not mad, simply bemused, as I suspect others are), well the source of this debate has been explained over and over again in this thread and in one or two other threads. Basically it stems from the general claim made very early on by Bioware that decisions made in the first game would be reflected in the expansion and the subsequent dismay when it was indicated that in the case of a US ending this would only be accomplished by bringing a dead character back to life.

[Hostetler]

okie doke - my 2 cents worth - no one is putting a gun to your head to purchase this expansion - if you cannot get your mind around what they are doing for the "ultimate sacrifice" ending do not buy it - honestly - I am as story driven as most of you folks are. whole reason I loved FF VIII, and love BG series. but sometimes things are not as easy as folks would like to think.  I am positive Bioware did it this way because that was the only way to make it work at this point in time.  My dead GW's are gonna stay that way .. dead - I will not import them into the expansion.  I am pretty sure most of you that have dead wardens also have other endings with different chars, so in the end you are gonna purchase this just to see what can be done with the other chars you made.

[Dockery]

You guys do realize that certain things are canon, hence why some things will be restricted?



I don't see what the fuss is about. Maybe I'm not as into the role playing as everyone, but I have several characters that would not make sense being ported over. Oh well; I accept there are some things that are canon and that some of my decisions were not part of that.

[Feraele]

Dockery wrote...

You guys do realize that certain things are canon, hence why some things will be restricted?

I don't see what the fuss is about. Maybe I'm not as into the role playing as everyone, but I have several characters that would not make sense being ported over. Oh well; I accept there are some things that are canon and that some of my decisions were not part of that.

Yes we realize that..hence some of us are posting in the Request for Canon thread as well.  

As of yet..nothing is officially announced that way, ALTHOUGH most suspect that the Dark Ritual is ..in fact canon.   We won't know for sure until someone with a blue bioware tag says so though.

I guess some of us can't justify the dead warden walking around after the Ultimate Sacrifice.

We also can't justify that the Ultimate Sacrifice won't exist either way......you import your dead warden..US didn't happen.

You leave him/her dead...US still didn't happen..it gets ignored..no brief history indicates or gives a nod to the fact that you saved Ferelden by dying for it.

BUT you can just blithely get up and walk away...as a dead warden...as per the most recent announcement.

[Curlain]

Well I guess the KOTOR analogy perhaps expands what we mean, in KOTOR you played Revan as light side or dark side and made a series of galaxy shaping decisions. Come KOTOR 2 Revan is gone (and possibly dead) and you start up as the Exile, but those questions with Atton allow you to maintain continuity with the manner you played Revan (ever though your no longer playing him, you Exile character lives in the same version of the galaxy as you previously played the Revan character in, and so the changes your Revan made are kept).

The idea is for the same to hold true with the Orlesian Warden, with that character your US character should have existed, and their efforts could be represented as you play through with the new Warden (just as if you upload a character who did survive, their decisions are carried through via the save). And the convos that were used in KOTOR2 could be a easy and simple way to implement these details into the DA world Awakening presents (such as rules Ferelden, the status of some party characters etc).  The pop-up window used to naming the Dog ingame could even appear to allow you to give the US Warden your Warden's name during the convo, since this mechanic exists ingame in DA.

I'm just not sure if it's so difficult to achieve, and would maintain continuity

Modifié par Curlain, 17 février 2010 - 11:02 .

[Feraele]

Hostetler wrote...

okie doke - my 2 cents worth - no one is putting a gun to your head to purchase this expansion - if you cannot get your mind around what they are doing for the "ultimate sacrifice" ending do not buy it - honestly - I am as story driven as most of you folks are. whole reason I loved FF VIII, and love BG series. but sometimes things are not as easy as folks would like to think.  I am positive Bioware did it this way because that was the only way to make it work at this point in time.  My dead GW's are gonna stay that way .. dead - I will not import them into the expansion.  I am pretty sure most of you that have dead wardens also have other endings with different chars, so in the end you are gonna purchase this just to see what can be done with the other chars you made.

Sorry I am bound into my pre-order...I can't cancel it, I can't refuse it thats the site rules where I pre-ordered

.    I pre-ordered prior to knowing about this latest development that was announced maybe 4 days ago.

So I have to carry through.   That doesn't mean I can't voice whats wrong with that picture.   Does it?

[Hostetler]

Feraele wrote...

Hostetler wrote...

okie doke - my 2 cents worth - no one is putting a gun to your head to purchase this expansion - if you cannot get your mind around what they are doing for the "ultimate sacrifice" ending do not buy it - honestly - I am as story driven as most of you folks are. whole reason I loved FF VIII, and love BG series. but sometimes things are not as easy as folks would like to think.  I am positive Bioware did it this way because that was the only way to make it work at this point in time.  My dead GW's are gonna stay that way .. dead - I will not import them into the expansion.  I am pretty sure most of you that have dead wardens also have other endings with different chars, so in the end you are gonna purchase this just to see what can be done with the other chars you made.

Sorry I am bound into my pre-order...I can't cancel it, I can't refuse it thats the site rules where I pre-ordered

.    I pre-ordered prior to knowing about this latest development that was announced maybe 4 days ago.

So I have to carry through.   That doesn't mean I can't voice whats wrong with that picture.   Does it?

well - sounds like you are living proof of an old adage - let the buyer beware - seriously though - I never buy anything before it is released .. and then I wait a week or two to see the player reviews before I purchase a game. I learned that the hard way when after playing the baldur's gate series , I went and pre purchased BG for the console.

[Masticetobbacco]

so can someone just tell me what choices we have in DAA?



cuz I let loghain do the dirty archdemon work and I made alistair king with anora



happy ending

[Feraele]

Hostetler wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Hostetler wrote...

okie doke - my 2 cents worth - no one is putting a gun to your head to purchase this expansion - if you cannot get your mind around what they are doing for the "ultimate sacrifice" ending do not buy it - honestly - I am as story driven as most of you folks are. whole reason I loved FF VIII, and love BG series. but sometimes things are not as easy as folks would like to think.  I am positive Bioware did it this way because that was the only way to make it work at this point in time.  My dead GW's are gonna stay that way .. dead - I will not import them into the expansion.  I am pretty sure most of you that have dead wardens also have other endings with different chars, so in the end you are gonna purchase this just to see what can be done with the other chars you made.

Sorry I am bound into my pre-order...I can't cancel it, I can't refuse it thats the site rules where I pre-ordered

.    I pre-ordered prior to knowing about this latest development that was announced maybe 4 days ago.

So I have to carry through.   That doesn't mean I can't voice whats wrong with that picture.   Does it?

well - sounds like you are living proof of an old adage - let the buyer beware - seriously though - I never buy anything before it is released .. and then I wait a week or two to see the player reviews before I purchase a game. I learned that the hard way when after playing the baldur's gate series , I went and pre purchased BG for the console.

Normally I do that..I wait, but having already played the game, and not had any major beefs prior..I pre-ordered..maybe 2 weeks ago.    Yeah lesson learned.  Won't be buying dlcs if no bought content ports over to expansions..thats for sure.