1118 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord_Darkmoon]

Argh, still so many who don't understand it. We WANT to create a new character, but we want our choices from Origins (who becomes king, is Loghain alive or dead) to carry over to Awakening!!!!

[bzombo]

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

Stop whining. Bioware cannot make a game with 1000 options for every player. Maybe they don't recognize the ending where you threw away your character like a tool as canon? That's within their right if they want to develop Awakening story that involved Morrigan's involvement to keep your character alive.This place is getting worse than WoW forums. Every second topic is QQ about DLC items and others are just plain nerd raging. How about suggestions that will fix many of DA's flawed combat and balanced mechanics?

Then they shouldn't have given us more than one ending.
It would have been better if they did not give the option of importing decisions into Awakening at all. But importing just the decisions of some endings rather than all is a slap in the face of all thise who made the ultimate sacrifice. This ending is worthless, pointless, they shouldn't have included it if they dont't want to pursue it further.

And even if they want to create one canon ending, then they should just come out and say it!

And saving Ferelden from the Archdemon is throwing away a character like a tool? You don't seem to be immersed in the story.

a slap in the face? come on now. that's a bit too much. there needs to be some sort of story progression, unless you want the game to eat up your entire hard drive to account for every possibility. there has to be a limit.

[worksa8]

If we played the story card then I suppose the old DLC items vanishing should fall in with that too...

Apparently the gear had a magical expiration date? xD

[Fishy]

Maria Caliban wrote...

How utterly stupid.

I recall during the development when one of the writers said they wanted a setting where death had meaning. So much for that. Apparently ‘ultimate sacrifice’ is more like ‘temporary inconvenience.’

Honestly, I’d have thought that ME 2 showed how little BioWare cares about choices and consequences, but this is a new low.

Fernando Melo wrote...

Can you import the world 'state', but start new in Awakening as the Orlesian Cmdr?  No.  The world 'state' only exists and lives on as part of your character's choices - most of the reactivity to events and choices in Origins would simply not make sense if it wasn't 'you' that did it.

Okay, so imagine a player puts Anora on the throne, kills Loghain, and then perform the Ultimate Sacrifice. The ideal situation would be for Awakening to acknowledge what their Warden did, but for the Warden to still be dead.

As is, this cannot be the case. If I import the Ultimate Sacrifice, I play as my dead character. If I don't import the Ultimate Sacrifice, Awakening doesn't acknowledge what my character did. It reverts to whatever 'default' the developers have created. Maybe the Dark Ritual was performed, maybe Alistair is king, maybe the Circle is Annuled when I saved it.

Because at some piint they need to make choice.Also they expect  most of the DA player want to continue the story of their protagonist and not start anew.

I did the ultimate sacrifice several time (2)  .. But I have other playthrough where my warden lived.So just make another playthrough or load an older save before the ritual .. **** ... It's easier doing this than bioware going through 2000 hours worth of work to please a small % of the playerbase.

You have option.
It's not like you have no frigging option.
hell i'm doing another playthrough before the expansion.How HARD's THAT?

SIGHT

Modifié par Suprez30, 19 février 2010 - 10:13 .

[Shirle Illios]

Suprez30 wrote...

You have option.
It's not like you have no frigging option.

As I see it I have four 'options':

• Play with my dead Warden, pretending that the sacrifice never happened. Unfortunately this completely invalidates the story.
  
• Go back to an earlier save and make different choices to get a different ending. Unfortunately this also invalidates the Ultimate Sacrifice story. Imagine reading a really good book with a really good end and then in the second book the author writes "forget the last few chapters of the previous book, instead here's what happened instead".
  
• Play as the Orlesian Warden. Believe me, this is what I want to do. But unfortunately it also completely invalidates the story (as it stands now anyway) because it doesn't include the choices you made and instead just reverts to the default options (similar to playing Mass Effect 2 with a new character instead of importing your old one).
  
• Don't play the game at all. Which, unfortunately also means that the story doesn't continue.

As such in all my 'options' the story becomes invalid and as such I really don't have any options at all. I'd argue that of that list not playing it might be the best option because then at least they don't trample all over the story you had.

In short, considering that I play BioWare games for their story I find that their treatment of the story in this really has me wondering why I'm playing BioWare games at all. If they can't even keep their own stories straight...


Love -x-x-x-

Shir'le

Modifié par Shirle Illios, 19 février 2010 - 11:06 .

[bluewolv1970]

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

Argh, still so many who don't understand it. We WANT to create a new character, but we want our choices from Origins (who becomes king, is Loghain alive or dead) to carry over to Awakening!!!!

exactly

[grieferbastard]

....

Which has all been answered.  It would be awesome if every possible option could be carried forward in every expansion and new game. I doubt anyone, even BioWare, would debate that. Yet the reality is that when telling a story you need to have some sort of baseline. Generally this is 'canon' and is in fact set 100% in stone. This is one of the few games that doesn't do that. There's a pretty good sized swath of options you can choose that fit into canon going forward. Unfortunately dying is a difficult one to do that with.

It's not that I don't appreciate how frustraiting it is to have a character whos story seems like it's ended and someone elses is going forward. I can appreciate how that must feel unfair.

Yet to say that this is something being 'done' to you or is somehow an unfair choice that was made by BioWare is unreasonable. At some point in any storyline you need to draw a line and say 'this is what we can support, this is what we can not'. As it's not going to sell as many or more copies as the original game nor take 5 years to develop it's not going to have the same scope.

That's just the reality of it. I can appreciate that it's upsetting, feeling like someone else is being given something that you're not. The truth is that it's absolutely what's happening too. My character who hooked up with Liliana and was going to travel the world with her? Denied. My character who was going back to Par Vollen with Sten? Obviously that's not a ship he's getting on. My character who's heading out after Morrigan? Not that either.

We didn't get a Chasind origin when the game shipped either. Or a Dalish Mage. Just wasn't the time or money to fit them in and the story itself wasn't as supportive of those roles so they got cut. Now in this particular expansion only characters who didn't die with the Archdemon are really going to be able to be invoved.

It's not that the US storyline didn't mean your choices have meaning. Quite the opposite; I'd say they had more meaning than all the others. That character died for their beliefs. It just means that Awakenings was not designed to carry that particular set of story options forward. You can say that you wish that it did, or that you're sad that it doesn't, but to say that all expansions and future games need to accomidate all possible choices isn't realistic unfortunately.

[Feraele]

Suprez30 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

How utterly stupid.

I recall during the development when one of the writers said they wanted a setting where death had meaning. So much for that. Apparently ‘ultimate sacrifice’ is more like ‘temporary inconvenience.’

Honestly, I’d have thought that ME 2 showed how little BioWare cares about choices and consequences, but this is a new low.

Fernando Melo wrote...

Can you import the world 'state', but start new in Awakening as the Orlesian Cmdr?  No.  The world 'state' only exists and lives on as part of your character's choices - most of the reactivity to events and choices in Origins would simply not make sense if it wasn't 'you' that did it.

Okay, so imagine a player puts Anora on the throne, kills Loghain, and then perform the Ultimate Sacrifice. The ideal situation would be for Awakening to acknowledge what their Warden did, but for the Warden to still be dead.

As is, this cannot be the case. If I import the Ultimate Sacrifice, I play as my dead character. If I don't import the Ultimate Sacrifice, Awakening doesn't acknowledge what my character did. It reverts to whatever 'default' the developers have created. Maybe the Dark Ritual was performed, maybe Alistair is king, maybe the Circle is Annuled when I saved it.

Because at some piint they need to make choice.Also they expect  most of the DA player want to continue the story of their protagonist and not start anew.

I did the ultimate sacrifice several time (2)  .. But I have other playthrough where my warden lived.So just make another playthrough or load an older save before the ritual .. **** ... It's easier doing this than bioware going through 2000 hours worth of work to please a small % of the playerbase.

You have option.
It's not like you have no frigging option.
hell i'm doing another playthrough before the expansion.How HARD's THAT?

SIGHT

Well in that case they need to clarify what is CANON.    Right now we're all in the dark with that one.

As for how hard it is to play through the game....I've done 12 run-throughs, am planning on at least 6 more.

I would say a good majority of people who play role playing games/rpgs ..play for the story.

The reason this has become a problem is..not only is there a hole in the story for the US, but there are other things missing from PURCHASED dlc content.   Weapons, armor..romances are on hold.

So I am starting to wonder what..we'll find in Awakening?   A grindfest of mobs,  and toting Ohgren along behind us wherever we go?   He's not my fave character..I have attempted to like him, but he's kind of in the same category as Zevran.....not my type.

I think those that don't care about story continuity, are the same ones who won't have a problem with a dead warden continuing that same story.

But there is another audience besides that one..and thats the audience that has been forgotten about or left out in the cold.     Their choices won't matter..will not carry through.

Thats what the discussion is about.

(mumbles something to herself about wishing people took time to read about the issues).....*wanders away*

[Mordaedil]

I don't get why the Ultimate Sacrifice was in the game if they were going to just declare it non-canon afterwards. Sounds like they could have saved some extra zots then, and grievances now.

[Feraele]

Mordaedil wrote...

I don't get why the Ultimate Sacrifice was in the game if they were going to just declare it non-canon afterwards. Sounds like they could have saved some extra zots then, and grievances now.

Not sure what zots are but..I agree..it could have been written out altogether..if in the long term it has no meaning.

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

Argh, still so many who don't understand it. We WANT to create a new character, but we want our choices from Origins (who becomes king, is Loghain alive or dead) to carry over to Awakening!!!!

For me, I understand perfectly what you all want. It's just you are all being unreasonable. It's been stated that in light of what they have planned for import reactivity there's little to no value in what you want. If Bioware thinks the value is too little to warrant the effort then I support that. I rather they put that effort elsewhere.

[supersims796]

RurouniSaiya-jin wrote...

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

Argh, still so many who don't understand it. We WANT to create a new character, but we want our choices from Origins (who becomes king, is Loghain alive or dead) to carry over to Awakening!!!!

For me, I understand perfectly what you all want. It's just you are all being unreasonable. It's been stated that in light of what they have planned for import reactivity there's little to no value in what you want. If Bioware thinks the value is too little to warrant the effort then I support that. I rather they put that effort elsewhere.

I have to disagree with you, Rurouni. You cannot say that there is little value in that, when so many people are saying the opposite. They are appreciating the story, and it is hard to say 'well, although this element of the game is important to you, it is not important fo us, therefor, it is decreed for all to be a non issue'. 

If Bioware thinks the issue too little to warrent the effort, then they need to listen to the fans. That is why topics like these are important. They are selling this game to the fans, and it is unreasonable to blow them off because they feel so.

[DraconisCombine]

Considering the fact that characters can be rezzed either by a mage or after combat its not a game breaker for me.Dont want to play your dead warden?Then dont.Whats the big deal?I will play mine.Ill just create a story as to why shes still around.Problem solved.Actually i dont have the problem since i didnt sacrifice myself.I went the other way with Morrigan.LOL!

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

supersims796 wrote...

RurouniSaiya-jin wrote...

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

Argh, still so many who don't understand it. We WANT to create a new character, but we want our choices from Origins (who becomes king, is Loghain alive or dead) to carry over to Awakening!!!!

For me, I understand perfectly what you all want. It's just you are all being unreasonable. It's been stated that in light of what they have planned for import reactivity there's little to no value in what you want. If Bioware thinks the value is too little to warrant the effort then I support that. I rather they put that effort elsewhere.

I have to disagree with you, Rurouni. You cannot say that there is little value in that, when so many people are saying the opposite. They are appreciating the story, and it is hard to say 'well, although this element of the game is important to you, it is not important fo us, therefor, it is decreed for all to be a non issue'. 

If Bioware thinks the issue too little to warrent the effort, then they need to listen to the fans. That is why topics like these are important. They are selling this game to the fans, and it is unreasonable to blow them off because they feel so.

Read my post again. I said the developer's think there is too little value in it in light of what they have planned for import reactivity. For me, this means that they've already entertained the idea internally, probably while they were still in the design phase, but in the end, they came up with many sound reasons why the idea brought too little value to the game when considering what they wanted to do for import reactivity.  This is reason enough for me to support their decision because unlike fans, Bioware will have thought about the issue from many angles.

Yes, it's important for Bioware to listen to fans but it's much more important for Bioware to make calls on their own. Fans can only tell them what's important to themselves and often, they give little or no thought at all to the grand scheme of things when they make their desires known. Only Bioware have the full picture of what they have planned and what they are going to do. Only they can see what's truly important in the grand scheme of things. We can give them our thoughts and advice but in the end, the responsibility to make the final call is on them, who have the best picture of the situation. 

[Jackimole]

They said that if you didn't care about the story, you could use your dead warden. But, I'm assuming you do care, so I'd suggest using the Orleasian.

[yeldarbnotned]

If you sacrificed your PC for the world, then all your PC decisions for the world could be sacrificed as well.  Then what is the point of making choices in the world.  This is lame.  Some of us want more from our time spent in the game.  We want to influence the world.  So we can still enjoy the world in future campaigns.

[Demx]

yeldarbnotned wrote...

If you sacrificed your PC for the world, then all your PC decisions for the world could be sacrificed as well.  Then what is the point of making choices in the world.  This is lame.  Some of us want more from our time spent in the game.  We want to influence the world.  So we can still enjoy the world in future campaigns.

Does this mean everyone I pissed off in the first game, I can ****** them off all over again?

[RPGlover732]

Jackimole wrote...

They said that if you didn't care about the story, you could use your dead warden. But, I'm assuming you do care, so I'd suggest using the Orleasian.

well the orleasian has a canon story attachexd to them so that wont work either

[Jackimole]

RPGlover732 wrote...

Jackimole wrote...

They said that if you didn't care about the story, you could use your dead warden. But, I'm assuming you do care, so I'd suggest using the Orleasian.

well the orleasian has a canon story attachexd to them so that wont work either

What do you mean?

[RPGlover732]

Jackimole wrote...

RPGlover732 wrote...

Jackimole wrote...

They said that if you didn't care about the story, you could use your dead warden. But, I'm assuming you do care, so I'd suggest using the Orleasian.

well the orleasian has a canon story attachexd to them so that wont work either

What do you mean?

I mean my choices from my dead character dont go over to the orlesian. he is attached to choices, its like my ultimate sacrifice character never happend.

[Balvine]

Jackimole wrote...

RPGlover732 wrote...

Jackimole wrote...

They said that if you didn't care about the story, you could use your dead warden. But, I'm assuming you do care, so I'd suggest using the Orleasian.

well the orleasian has a canon story attachexd to them so that wont work either

What do you mean?

He means that if you sacrificed your charecter and want to start a new Warden in the expansion it doesnt matter what choises you made during your play in Origins. Wether you sentenced Loghain to death for his crimes he might still be alive in Aweakenings since New game means fixed story. Also the king might be different of the one you chose.

[Feraele]

I'm glad to see that Bioware answered MANY questions..but this one ..they seem to have sidestepped...unfortunately.

[Staylost]

I agree, Maria.

They should have the Orlesian Origin be the default for a sacrificed Warden. When you import your dead Warden's file, it should save the world changes but let you play through as the Orlesian of course.



It is stupid how they have it now.

[Gabey5]

i dont really care.. none of my characters died anyway

[Feraele]

Gabey5 wrote...

i dont really care.. none of my characters died anyway

How nice for you...