1118 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

Feraele wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

How utterly stupid.

I recall during the development when one of the writers said they wanted a setting where death had meaning. So much for that. Apparently ‘ultimate sacrifice’ is more like ‘temporary inconvenience.’

Honestly, I’d have thought that ME 2 showed how little BioWare cares about choices and consequences, but this is a new low.

I agree, what is more baffling is that they have the framework

A)  You "supposedly" import decisions of your character if they survived to begin with
  You can start a new character if yours died, an Orlesian Warden

Why not put both together?  Because that would only make sense, I mean seriously what is the point of the Orlesian Warden if the Ultimate Sacrifice wasn't its intent?

Indeed...we were told before you couldn't play your dead warden, but you could start a new Orlesian character.   They also stated that decisions made in Origins would impact or follow through in Awakening.

So what has changed?   I put it down to problems with programming it all in...maybe too many variables to get it released by March 16th?

Maybe I hit the nail on the head.................

But that is something they could have fixed with time, I mean this expansion wasn't announced that long ago.  They pretty much came out and said.  Dragon Age: Origins Awakening, finished and will be released right after ME 2. 

Plus the current lineup of releases suggest that it will face some heavy opposition on the market.  Why wouldn't Bioware play it safe and continue to release DLC packs?  I just don't see how this benefits them.  I mean they could potentially rake in a bunch of sales from a relatively recent DA release but they could also do that with DLC .

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 14 février 2010 - 12:59 .

[Feraele]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

How utterly stupid.

I recall during the development when one of the writers said they wanted a setting where death had meaning. So much for that. Apparently ‘ultimate sacrifice’ is more like ‘temporary inconvenience.’

Honestly, I’d have thought that ME 2 showed how little BioWare cares about choices and consequences, but this is a new low.

I agree, what is more baffling is that they have the framework

A)  You "supposedly" import decisions of your character if they survived to begin with
  You can start a new character if yours died, an Orlesian Warden

Why not put both together?  Because that would only make sense, I mean seriously what is the point of the Orlesian Warden if the Ultimate Sacrifice wasn't its intent?

Indeed...we were told before you couldn't play your dead warden, but you could start a new Orlesian character.   They also stated that decisions made in Origins would impact or follow through in Awakening.

So what has changed?   I put it down to problems with programming it all in...maybe too many variables to get it released by March 16th?

Maybe I hit the nail on the head.................

But that is something they could have fixed with time, I mean this expansion wasn't announced that long ago.  They pretty much came out and said.  Dragon Age: Origins Awakening, finished and will be released right after ME 2. 

I'm thinking they need to explain this more to us......would be nice if  Mr Gaider or someone took a little time.  Or even if someone could revise the Awakening FAQ to clarify this for us.    I have seen already some folks saying they won't purchase it.   

Personally at this point I have no choice, I have pre-ordered 2 weeks ago, from Direct-to-Drive and THEIR site policy is they won't refund or cancel a pre-order.   I order from them due to their CSR.. are much better than EA.

Believe me.

[Adanu]

You know... it's sad that on a forum where people are supposed to be 'imaginative' that some of them cannot even think up good reasons for the Orlesian Warden...



We don't know what they plan to do with the new PC, or even what the 'canon story is supposed to be.

[DJ0000]

Like they said. If you have a don't have a problem with breaking the story, they don't.



If you have a problem with it don't do it, be an Orlesian. They aren't forcing you they just won't let your dead Warden's choices count but they warned a long time ago that this may be the case.



I'm still really excited about the expansion.

[Xaila]

Ugh glad I'm not the only one who thought this was extremely stupid. They should've either just...let you transfer your specs/stats to a new Orlesian-background warden, or at least retcon it so that you did the Dark Ritual or something. As it stands, the revived warden just makes no sense.



I understand the need sometimes to trump the story for game mechanics/player sanity/enjoyment, but this just cheapens the whole self-sacrifice ending. Come on, DA has talented writers and no one could come up with ANY explanation other than "somehow survived"?

[Feraele]

Xaila wrote...

Ugh glad I'm not the only one who thought this was extremely stupid. They should've either just...let you transfer your specs/stats to a new Orlesian-background warden, or at least retcon it so that you did the Dark Ritual or something. As it stands, the revived warden just makes no sense.

I understand the need sometimes to trump the story for game mechanics/player sanity/enjoyment, but this just cheapens the whole self-sacrifice ending. Come on, DA has talented writers and no one could come up with ANY explanation other than "somehow survived"?

When they announced the Awakening expansion..they came out and stated that some of your choices/decisions would follow through in Awakening.

That meant too, that if you ported your dead warden, ...I assume that meant..promises kept,  ie: statue of dead warden at entrance to Vigil's Keep as per the King's edict.    Tomb at Weishopt..as thats where the other "four?"  GW are buried that made the same sacrifice.    

So it was more like background recognition, and I supposed at that point, you would be able to create the new Orlesian GW.

Now I'm just confused as to what will really happen once...I port that dead character?   I don't want to play her,  I just want her to be recognized for her self-sacrifice, I'll be perfectly happy to play a new Orlesian character.

As for my other characters, just like everyone here, I made different decisions with varying degrees of outcomes.

I understand that..all those variables from all those characters played by ..how many people around the world...might be difficult to program.....

But the dead warden one would be a standard thing wouldn't it?   

I guess given this new information...I am just confused as to what will be happening now.    AND hesitant to port my dead warden for fear..she'll be playable.    I don't want her playable...she's dead. 

[Feraele]

If a player wants to, they can import their "Dead Warden" into Awakening and play as them. For the story it's assumed that they didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived. A player would start as the same level with the same gear as their "Dead Warden". Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.





---------------end quote-----------



I hate to put a "yes but"...in here...but ......



They are assuming with that statement that we will ALL want to play our dead warden..and to hand waive..the story.



Thats not the case. There are some of us, me included that would find this a break in continuity of the story/lore.



So what are the choices for those that wish to allow their warden to remain dead?



Just don't import and therefore the honorary things..ie: the statue and the entombment at Weishopt don't happen....they never get an honorable mention in the Orlesian GW story?



If so......thats a promise broken. Bioware.

[f4k3s4nt4]

You aren't getting this properly.



It's not 'your character sacrificed himself and was resurrected L-O-L'



If you import your character, the game will assume he didn't sacrifice himself, and instead chose one of the alternative options. It's basically the same as if you took a saved game before the Archdemon died, and chose a different course. It just saves you the 30min+ of gametime.

[SwordsmanofShadow]

I wonder what excuse Bioware will come up with in regards to a 'revived' Warden storyline wise. Will there be a in-depth explanation for the Warden surviving without the Ritual? Or will it automatically change your save so that you did do the Ritual? I would kind of like some clarification on this, because it would determine which ending I choose to import.

[Azure Zero]

darrenr22 wrote...

But that is precisely what is so mystifying. From a technical point of view it would seem to be the importing of decisions and having them reflected in the expansion that would be the tricky part. But they have already implemented that. By comparison it would seem to be a very minor technical step to simply modify it so that you play the Orlesian Warden with those decisions. It just seems that the really difficult stuff has already been done and I cannot understand why they are not going that extra yard to legitimate the ultimate sacrifice ending and make it properly compatible with the expansion.

Simple, DA was already a year or so in development prior to Bioware being swallowed by EA, so it was able to be well made with an intricate story. Awakening didn't get that reprieve so it is clearly a rushed project under EA calling the shots. That is my theory at least.

[Monica21]

SwordsmanofShadow wrote...

I wonder what excuse Bioware will come up with in regards to a 'revived' Warden storyline wise. Will there be a in-depth explanation for the Warden surviving without the Ritual? Or will it automatically change your save so that you did do the Ritual? I would kind of like some clarification on this, because it would determine which ending I choose to import.

Well, there probably won't be much of an "excuse" since the player is the one who's deciding to do the importing.

And there's a lot of unfounded speculation flying about how starting a new character will be dealt with. There is a new background, but there's nothing that says you have to play as an Orlesian Grey Warden. It's just there because it's there. I would assume that you can also choose an elven mage.

As for the OP stating that the choices mattered, well, the player can decide whether your sacrifice matters. If it doesn't to you, then BioWare is stating that they'll let you import. It's all on the player to make the decision.

[Fieryeel]

I am f**king disappointed.



Weeks ago when I heard about Awakenings, I was thinking about how incredible a game DA:O is, and that I would 100% get it.



Now after hearing this...I am no longer so excited, I am not even sure if I should buy the game created by developers who do not keep to their promises, and retconned so much important stuff. Retconning is the reason why I don't hand monthly allowance to Blizzard anymore (lol Draenei...). Why I stopped spending hundreds of bucks on Marvel comics (lol Logan's adamantium and regen etc...).



Here I thought DA:O was a game that was near flawless, with an incredible storyline and gameplay.



Now they are gonna retcon the "ultimate" sacrifice?



My mage storyline has Anora as queen, Alistar as my beloved. I sacrificed myself, and now the circle of magi is free from templars. They shall also erect my statue up........AND WTF happened to that?



I was gonna get an Orlesian Grey Warden to visit my statue at Amaratine. I was gonna chat with Alistar and reminisce about how his lover Grey Warden nobly sacrificed herself to save Ferelden, as well as how he regrets not being able to stop her or do it himself.



Bioware made fools out of us.

[Feraele]

VittoriaLandis wrote...

But I read in an interview, not too long ago, that if you did indeed choose the Ultimate Sacrifice you will start as a new Warden. Where did this "information" come from?

Thats what we were originally told..it was in the blue Bioware tags on the thread that announced Awakening.

[Dick Delaware]

Feraele wrote...

Ugh glad I'm not the only one who thought this was extremely stupid. They should've either just...let you transfer your specs/stats to a new Orlesian-background warden, or at least retcon it so that you did the Dark Ritual or something. As it stands, the revived warden just makes no sense.

I understand the need sometimes to trump the story for game mechanics/player sanity/enjoyment, but this just cheapens the whole self-sacrifice ending. Come on, DA has talented writers and no one could come up with ANY explanation other than "somehow survived"?

If they retconned it, I wouldn't mind at all. That way, players who went the sacrifice route wouldn't have to go back in Origins, agree to the ritual, then go and defeat the Archdemon again. It's convenient that way for players who don't want to go back and replay that portion again.

But this way, it cheapens the consequences of the choice you made. If you decided not to perform the ritual either you or Alistair/Loghain dies. There is no other way, nor should there be. Choice is important in role-playing games, but consequences are JUST as important, if not more so.

[Monica21]

Fieryeel wrote...
Now they are gonna retcon the "ultimate" sacrifice?

No, they are not going to retcon the sacrifice. If you decide to import that character, then you are the one deciding to retcon it. If you don't want to play that character, then you start a new one. How is this so difficult to understand?

[f4k3s4nt4]

Maviarab wrote...
And what are you not getting. You sacrifice yourself....your DEAD!...

Import that save....Bioware say...hey...guess what....it never happened....your not dead after all....what really happened is that you slept with Morrigan while you were sleeping and all is well with the world (as that is the canon ending).

Which is the same as reloading a previous save and making a difference choice, hence what I explained. Taken from the FAQ:

For the story it's assumed that they didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived.

By 'somehow survived', they mean to say one of the alternate choices you're presented it, without spoiling.

By importing your 'dead warden', you're in fact importing the same character, but he never chose to sacrifice himself. The only purpose of this is saving yourself the time to replay the ending if you end up wanting to keep your character.

Are they imposing this ending on us? Definitely, but then again nobody is forcing us to import our 'dead warden'. We're free to reload a previous saved game and do the ending a different way if we want to. But they're certainly not raising the dead.

[Feraele]

To add to that...it makes it so, if people want to continue to play their Warden through to Awakening, they'll never choose the Ultimate Sacrifice, because there is no continuity in the story for doing it. No honourable mention, no statue, no entombment in Weishopt.

Whats the point of the Ultimate Sacrifice ..except for the Achievement? No point at all.

That constitutes a plot hole...doesn't it?

Modifié par Feraele, 14 février 2010 - 04:04 .