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[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I assume the Orlesian Warden is to offer a new insight on the world, just like in DA:O, the different origins were to give you a different view of the setting.

Of course but set in a different reality?

[Lord_Darkmoon]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

You said it, man. You have to question what's the reason to include the Orlesian Warden origin. Before reading this thread I've always thought that:

1) Player made the ultimate sacrifice, does not return for Awakening, option to play as the Orlesian Warden. The game world reflects on everything the Warden did in Origins.

or

2) The Warden didn't make the sacrifice, returns for Awakening. The game world reflect on everything the Warden did in Origins.

As it is, if we play the Orlesian Warden, it will be set in a different reality and it would make everything more unmeaningful than the reason this Bioware guy gave(see below) for the world 'state' not being imported.

"Fernando Melo wrote...

Can you import the world 'state', but start new in Awakening as the Orlesian Cmdr? No. The world 'state' only exists and lives on as part of your character's choices - most of the reactivity to events and choices in Origins would simply not make sense if it wasn't 'you' that did it."

But what Fernando said doesn't make sense. "It wouldn't make sens if it wasn't "you" that did it." But if you play the Orlesian warden it wasn't you who did the things.
Am I getting something wrong here?
The only thing I can read out of Fernandos statement is that in the dialogue some of the events you did in Origins will be spoken about personally with you - the warden who did them. This means that they simply didn't include dialogue options in which the "things done in Origins" would have been referred to in third person.
So it seems to me that it is not a matter of importing the choices only not beeing technically doable but it simply is not possible because the dialoge options are not in the game.

[Maria Caliban]

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

Of course but set in a different reality?

Sorry?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 février 2010 - 06:57 .

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

Of course but set in a different reality?

Sorry?

I meant I hated their decision not to import the world 'state' if we play as the Orlesian guy. I thought it would be quite meaningless. That's what I meant by "a different reality".

[The Hardest Thing In The World]

Lord_Darkmoon wrote...

The Hardest Thing In The World wrote...

You said it, man. You have to question what's the reason to include the Orlesian Warden origin. Before reading this thread I've always thought that:

1) Player made the ultimate sacrifice, does not return for Awakening, option to play as the Orlesian Warden. The game world reflects on everything the Warden did in Origins.

or

2) The Warden didn't make the sacrifice, returns for Awakening. The game world reflect on everything the Warden did in Origins.

As it is, if we play the Orlesian Warden, it will be set in a different reality and it would make everything more unmeaningful than the reason this Bioware guy gave(see below) for the world 'state' not being imported.

"Fernando Melo wrote...

Can you import the world 'state', but start new in Awakening as the Orlesian Cmdr? No. The world 'state' only exists and lives on as part of your character's choices - most of the reactivity to events and choices in Origins would simply not make sense if it wasn't 'you' that did it."

But what Fernando said doesn't make sense. "It wouldn't make sens if it wasn't "you" that did it." But if you play the Orlesian warden it wasn't you who did the things.
Am I getting something wrong here?
The only thing I can read out of Fernandos statement is that in the dialogue some of the events you did in Origins will be spoken about personally with you - the warden who did them. This means that they simply didn't include dialogue options in which the "things done in Origins" would have been referred to in third person.
So it seems to me that it is not a matter of importing the choices only not beeing technically doable but it simply is not possible because the dialoge options are not in the game.

Anyway, all this could've been avoided if Bioware didn't have the ending(the ultimate sacrifice(US)) as it is. I've always thought that if you have plans for expansion/sequels for your game, you shouldn't kill the PC in the end and then have him come back through the "Lazarus glitch". That's not to say that I didn't like US ending but it should be meaningful, if I decided to sacrifice myself, I remain dead and start with another character in the expansions and sequels. This would be better for  playthroughs too. Players could have 2 saves, one who didn't do the US and one who did and play them at least 2 times more.

[Zemore]

If the Morrigan ending is to be the Canon one i wouldent mind too much shes an interesting charcter that deserves to come back in the sequel and stir things up .

[shadowdragon8190]

I don't see why they didn't put the Orlesian Warden with our last grey wardens outcome. I mean all they had to do was make a code for the choices (which they have already made because if they didn't then there is no way that our choices in the first game can affect the expansion even if we import our character) and a seperate code which allows us to choose whether to import our Grey Warden or keep him dead. They should have 3 codes that are basically a decision at the beginning of Awakenings:

1. Import saved character.

2. Import saved character's decision (keep character dead).

3. Start New Game.

All they would have to do for the decisions your character made is tweak them up a bit if you choose him to be dead. I don't care if all they do is reminisce about my dead character. That's enough for me to say, "Okay he's dead we all know it and at least they're still talking about what he did." Good news for me is that my character made the deal with Morrigan so it doesn't affect me, but kinda disappointed that a lot of you guys that do have grey wardens won't be having the option to bring your decision to Awakening.

[Teredan]

although i think it's stupid that they didn't include this, but thinking about it with common sense it means they couldn't do it because of restrictions. well that can't be helped than...

[Feraele]

shadowdragon8190 wrote...

I don't see why they didn't put the Orlesian Warden with our last grey wardens outcome. I mean all they had to do was make a code for the choices (which they have already made because if they didn't then there is no way that our choices in the first game can affect the expansion even if we import our character) and a seperate code which allows us to choose whether to import our Grey Warden or keep him dead. They should have 3 codes that are basically a decision at the beginning of Awakenings:
1. Import saved character.
2. Import saved character's decision (keep character dead).
3. Start New Game.
All they would have to do for the decisions your character made is tweak them up a bit if you choose him to be dead. I don't care if all they do is reminisce about my dead character. That's enough for me to say, "Okay he's dead we all know it and at least they're still talking about what he did." Good news for me is that my character made the deal with Morrigan so it doesn't affect me, but kinda disappointed that a lot of you guys that do have grey wardens won't be having the option to bring your decision to Awakening.

Well thats pretty much how we've been seeing the resolution to this problem,  on the other hand we aren't getting any answers,  so perhaps we've been totally ignored on this issue....OR there could be another thing going on here, and thats if we were told officially, it would create a spoiler.

But again all we can do is speculate I guess, because it looks like Bioware is unwilling to clear this up for us one way or another.

[kennyme2]

I like that the developers are giving players more freedom when it comes to imports. Being able to import a dead character saves you the hassle of pouring tens of hours into creating yet another save file.



I agree that there should be an ultimate sacrifice import scenario, though. Strange for them to not make one. Maybe some things they consider more canonical/ easy to work with than others.

[Alikain]

Could it be that for those who took the Ultimate Sacrifice is for let say Dragon age two? They did give us the choice to either import our dead warden or start a new game. I have a question for most people who are not happy that all their decision made in DA: O is recounted, did they only play one origin, because if they did and only choose one ending then too bad for them. I only played two elf female mage who went for Ultimate Sacrifice and my Human female noble how went for the Dark Ritual. To me by mage is dead and am not importing her into the DA: O-A. All I care about is see how the arl howe family is going to react with me. I still will try out the new Orlesian-background warden. Another question didn’t the human noble origin play through say that your are the last of your family line, yet when you get to the ending you see you big brother.

[Feraele]

Alikain wrote...

Could it be that for those who took the Ultimate Sacrifice is for let say Dragon age two? They did give us the choice to either import our dead warden or start a new game. I have a question for most people who are not happy that all their decision made in DA: O is recounted, did they only play one origin, because if they did and only choose one ending then too bad for them. I only played two elf female mage who went for Ultimate Sacrifice and my Human female noble how went for the Dark Ritual. To me by mage is dead and am not importing her into the DA: O-A. All I care about is see how the arl howe family is going to react with me. I still will try out the new Orlesian-background warden. Another question didn’t the human noble origin play through say that your are the last of your family line, yet when you get to the ending you see you big brother.

Okay.....maybe you should read the very first post in this thread to get it explained..personally I have explained it all til I am pretty much not going to do that any more.  

My PC is dead too.....I don't have a problem with that..its what happens after that me and others have a problem with.

AND I am on my 14th play-through.

[Adam Bomb1]

I'm no writer but i'm just throwing this out there. If you performed the ultimate sacrifice, the credits said that Lelliana told a maid or something like that that she was going to see her true love again, another vision from the Maker? The expansion is called Awakening, maybe they could've had it where you're in the tomb in Weisshaupt, it's all black, then it gets bright and you hear an ominous voice, the Maker. He tells you the world still needs you or some other cliche explanation and you "awake". Tada, warden alive through divine intervention. It says somewhere that the Maker has abandoned humanity because we followed the Old Gods, but maybe he's getting involved because this is clearly like no other blight before. This way you can play with your previous character, choices, and you get to experience the end results. Please don't overanalyze this, i'm just saying this would satisfy me a lot more than what i've been reading so far.

[Adam Bomb1]

TheFaceless93 wrote...

Adam Bomb1 wrote...

I'm no writer but i'm just throwing this out there. If you performed the ultimate sacrifice, the credits said that Lelliana told a maid or something like that that she was going to see her true love again, another vision from the Maker? The expansion is called Awakening, maybe they could've had it where you're in the tomb in Weisshaupt, it's all black, then it gets bright and you hear an ominous voice, the Maker. He tells you the world still needs you or some other cliche explanation and you "awake". Tada, warden alive through divine intervention. It says somewhere that the Maker has abandoned humanity because we followed the Old Gods, but maybe he's getting involved because this is clearly like no other blight before. This way you can play with your previous character, choices, and you get to experience the end results. Please don't overanalyze this, i'm just saying this would satisfy me a lot more than what i've been reading so far.

I got the impression that meant she was going to kill herself to be with the warden

I did too, i was just saying they could put a spin on it similar to that if they wanted.

[shadowdragon8190]

Adam Bomb1 wrote...

I'm no writer but i'm just throwing this out there. If you performed the ultimate sacrifice, the credits said that Lelliana told a maid or something like that that she was going to see her true love again, another vision from the Maker? The expansion is called Awakening, maybe they could've had it where you're in the tomb in Weisshaupt, it's all black, then it gets bright and you hear an ominous voice, the Maker. He tells you the world still needs you or some other cliche explanation and you "awake". Tada, warden alive through divine intervention. It says somewhere that the Maker has abandoned humanity because we followed the Old Gods, but maybe he's getting involved because this is clearly like no other blight before. This way you can play with your previous character, choices, and you get to experience the end results. Please don't overanalyze this, i'm just saying this would satisfy me a lot more than what i've been reading so far.

Actually, this would seem sound if the warden was recently dead.  Maybe the same thing that kept Wynne alive would keep the Warden alive.  Never thought of that.  But I would have to say if the Warden was like 2 days dead then I wouldn't accept that he was brought back to life.  I can accept one day, even a day and a half, but not 2 days.  Lol and if that does come to it I hope the maker does say Tada!

[TheRealIncarnal]

Please Listen Bioware! We badly need to import our decisions from dead characters while playing with the new Orlesian Warden.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Well its a bit late for that. I do wonder what will happen with future Expansion packs though. Unfortunately for 360 owners this presents a bit of a problem as it can't be modded and the patches are slim. PS3 has apparently a strange certification process, but its doable on PC. With mods anyway if someone were to put the time into it. Also a more flexible platform.



I thought when it was announced that the Orlesian would take over for your DA:O character, but now its just a bit confusing to me.



I think I said something in there :/

[Dubidox]

Teredan wrote...

although i think it's stupid that they didn't include this, but thinking about it with common sense it means they couldn't do it because of restrictions. well that can't be helped than...

What I get from Melo's quote is that the world "state" isn't so much saved as certain properties or flags are set for your character and the world reacts to those flags.  So things like "annulled the circle" are saved the same way as "is a dwarf".  They'd have to not only code their importer to "strip out" the world state and glue it onto the orlesian wardens "core" properties but, as others have mentioned, they'd have to go through the game and effectively double the amount of dialogue/testing to handle the fact that people wouldn't be reacting to the person who had performed the action.  Granted creative writing can reduce that considerably, but IMO I'd rather have more precise reactivity from the world than more vague reactivity. 

We keep being reminded that this is an expansion and not a full game, so the budget is smaller.  It is a valid point, and I can definitely see the logic of "pruning" off the more expensive plotlines/endings in the name of having more budget to do a better job on areas where you get more "bang for your buck".

Of course I'd like to see them carry over the US ending on to the Orlesian warden though, and this news lowered my expectations of Awakenings a bit.  It also cemented my decision to wait for a price drop/wait and see what others say of the reactivity(ie replay value).

[CueEllTee]

It is sort of weird, isn't it?

[le_cygne]

distinguetraces wrote...

Good lord, most conspicuously ignored thread ever.

Well, if you're not playing on a console, anyway...

I honestly don't even understand the purpose of the Orlesian warden if it's not to continue a dead character's story. This isn't to say that I don't think she will be an interesting or well-written character, but who wants to play a new character in a generic world, especially if his preexisting character, who he is presumably somewhat vested in, can actually continue her own story?

I understand that they're trying to appease the l33t g4m3r crowd by offering the frankly ridiculous resurrection of your dead character (which is good, I guess--if people want to play with nonsensical continuity, I'm sincerely fine with that--obviously some people prefer the min-maxing, dice rolling aspects of a "role playing" game over the actual role playing), but ignoring the story for the core audience who made perhaps the toughest roleplaying decision is a very real shame, and the only thing that may keep me from buying Awakening.

[Rama_88]

I agree so much with most people in this thread.

The only thing we can do now is hope that Bioware silence is because they may be actually working on something to fix this massive omission.

[blademaster7]

I wonder if there is a sacrifice decision in Awakening. You know... it's a Bioware game after all, you get that kind of decisions... Our characters mysteriously survived the events of Origins but they may end up dying anyway... lol

Wouldn't that be a slap to the face?

Modifié par blademaster7, 02 mars 2010 - 11:50 .