1118 réponses à ce sujet

[YohkoOhno]

Yohko..



Still dont get it do you, so the fact that Bioware told us that if your imported your US save you would play as the new warden, and all your decisions carried through...was a LIE....

I don't recall that being a promise. It could have been a misquote, or something that wasn't understood.

The only people who have ANY kind of choice in the US ending are the non-rpers. That clear now?

No, an RPer does have a choice. They can imagine themselves being raised and make up their own story in their head. Or they can pretend it was an alternate reality or a dream, simple, no?

And..I am done repeating over and over to those that refuse to understand ANYTHING about this issue...if they are reading challenged well...thats not my problem is it?

Basically, you insult people who disagree with you. I understand the issue. You seem to not understand that there are other opinions besides yours, as well as different expectations from different types of players. Which is why I debate it. I understand your disappointment, but I disagree with some of your opinions, and I think you should be a little more understanding of the issues involved and not just make statements like "guess they don't care about RP'.

[Cancermeat]

I personally believe we developed language because of our deep inner need to complain. ~Jane Wagner

[Pridesong]

I just don't see what's so hard about giving the option to play as the Orlesian Warden while having your decisions imported from your last save.



It's really a big oversight that Bioware should have caught.

[Delroc88]

i denied morrigan and took the ultimate sacrifice, and iam not gonna lie after reading this thread iam extremely disappointed my death will be retconned

[Cancermeat]

I think that the insane desire one has sometimes to bang and kick grumblers and peevish persons is a Divine instinct. ~Robert Hugh Benson

[Gaudion]

YohkoOhno wrote...

No, an RPer does have a choice. They can imagine themselves being raised and make up their own story in their head. Or they can pretend it was an alternate reality or a dream, simple, no?

... Really?

Did you really just suggest that we go dream sequence in order to make this work? 'Cause, you know, that's been so well received by fans of any source material in any genre across any media... Oh... I don't know... None of the time?

[Ghost1461]

I thought it was obvious the main reason they made the orlesian option was so that you "hardcore" roleplayers would be satisfied... I'm pretty sure that they'll mention the sacrifice your warden made at the end.



I'd guess that most people would be pissed if their warden died and they had to start off from scratch without their gold and armor from before (so not as many people would buy it) which is why they allow the option to just to start off as your old character whether they're dead or not



it would suck playing as your warden's corpse as it slowly rots in the ground for thousands of years

[Pridesong]

I don't think people care whether or not they get their gold or armor from before, well I guess some do, but I don't and it doesn't seem the be the issue at hand.  What we want is our decisions to carry over.

So if we put Alistair or Anora on the throne, or killed off Wynne or various other characters, that would still be in effect even if we were playing as the new Orlesian Warden because ours had died.

[munrohk]

...and you can't just tell someone to load a save and change their ending choices, because then they still won't be importing *their decisions*.



Fact is that Bioware spread themselves too wide with the range of outcomes and now they can't handle all the different possible permutations in Awakening. To be fair they're pioneers in what they're doing with Mass Effect and Dragon Age, and I had loads of fun continuing the stories of 3 different Shepards in ME2.



So I'm gonna bite the bullet with this ultimate sacrifice thing, and my grey warden will stay dead and I'll let his story end there. I trust Bioware are learning from these problems and I hope they keep improving, 'cos this import gig is the future of RPGs if you ask me.

[YohkoOhno]

Gaudion wrote...

Did you really just suggest that we go dream sequence in order to make this work? 'Cause, you know, that's been so well received by fans of any source material in any genre across any media... Oh... I don't know... None of the time?

I suggested people realize that Bioware in this instance couldn't spend the time/money to come up with a sequence involving this feature, and that people adapt a little.

So I'm gonna bite the bullet with this ultimate sacrifice thing, and my grey warden will stay dead and I'll let his story end there. I trust Bioware are learning from these problems and I hope they keep improving, 'cos this import gig is the future of RPGs if you ask me.

I think they wanted to do this too, but just couldn't get it done in time.  

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 07 mars 2010 - 11:39 .

[Pridesong]

munrohk wrote...

...and you can't just tell someone to load a save and change their ending choices, because then they still won't be importing *their decisions*.

Fact is that Bioware spread themselves too wide with the range of outcomes and now they can't handle all the different possible permutations in Awakening. To be fair they're pioneers in what they're doing with Mass Effect and Dragon Age, and I had loads of fun continuing the stories of 3 different Shepards in ME2.

So I'm gonna bite the bullet with this ultimate sacrifice thing, and my grey warden will stay dead and I'll let his story end there. I trust Bioware are learning from these problems and I hope they keep improving, 'cos this import gig is the future of RPGs if you ask me.

I suppose I have been looking at this the wrong way.  But I wish Bioware would address the issue and admit either they didn't think about this problem or they caught it way too late in production.

You are right, Bioware is practically the only developer who has used this sort of import feature.   Especially in a game where decisions and such can change outcomes and endings.  We should give them a bit more slack and hope that next time around they perfect it a bit more.  Their games have really increased in quality everytime they release a new one.

Modifié par Pridesong, 07 mars 2010 - 01:08 .

[Vim]

Yep, those who went with the Ultimate Sacrifice ending should have had the option of porting over their choices to play an Orlesian warden. And let's be frank, there aren't a whole lot of choices that would need to be ported and the code to port those choices was already written for the other endings. Romance acknowledgements aren't needed. Oggy's reaction to the Orlesian warden won't change. The only significant issue would be who the monarch(s) are in the cut scene(s). But again, there would be fewer possibilities to consider because there is no chance that the Orlesian warden has married Alistair or Anora. The amount of extra work would have been negligible had they worked the possibility in from the beginning. Unless Alistair and/or Anora repeatedly appear throughout the expansion, they could probably have gotten away with just two additional cut scenes and a few sentences of extra voice work (for actors they were already contracting) to cover the 3 rulership rulership possibilites and called it a day. Yep, I definitely have to agree with those who feel the decision was a bad call.

Modifié par Vim, 07 mars 2010 - 03:04 .

[WorldWarIV]

I am one of those person who don't spend a lot of time on forums usually, because I don't like being spoiled. I loved DA too much to resist this time around though, and I must say I was a bit disapointed. Oghren as the only original character to come back? Dog isn't back? No romance? No Ultimate sacrifice aknowledged?



This nice elf you see in my avatar sacrified himself so his friend Alistair wouldn't have to. He chose Anora as a ruler because she seemed apt to do so, and because Alistair really didn't seem to want to. He wanted to travel around the world with his good friend Leliana after the Blight and couln't. I really wish I could have seen the effects my choices would have had on the world, and on those characters. Who takes care of Dog now than I'm dead?



I'm a sucker for continuity. Hell, I would have had nothing against playing a resurrected warden if Bioware would have gave me a good reason for his resurrection. But my decisions not being reflected if I play the Orlesian Warden, and no good reason to be alive again? I'm afraid I will pass. It was my first playthrough, so it has special meaning for me, and I wish this meaning could have been carried over to the expansion.



But I'm not stupid. I knew before I killed off my character that DA had very successful sales, and that an expansion was probably on the way. So I asked myself if I was ready to let him die. I had another idea for a character, so I made the Ultimate Sacrifice, and now I guess he will stay dead.



Someone asked if I'd rather have less spells, talents, etc., just so I could have better continuity. Yeah, in a heartbeat. I don't care about new spells, I care about the story. You can even delay the game, I don't care, just so my friends can remember me, and Dog can still be with me.



But really, Bioware? Oghren of all the fascinating characters you've created? No romance? No Ultimate Sacrifice continuity? I'll wait to read IGN's review before I buy.

[Vim]

WorldWarIV wrote...

I am one of those person who don't spend a lot of time on forums usually, because I don't like being spoiled. I loved DA too much to resist this time around though, and I must say I was a bit disapointed. Oghren as the only original character to come back? Dog isn't back? No romance? No Ultimate sacrifice aknowledged?

This nice elf you see in my avatar sacrified himself so his friend Alistair wouldn't have to. He chose Anora as a ruler because she seemed apt to do so, and because Alistair really didn't seem to want to. He wanted to travel around the world with his good friend Leliana after the Blight and couln't. I really wish I could have seen the effects my choices would have had on the world, and on those characters. Who takes care of Dog now than I'm dead?

I'm a sucker for continuity. Hell, I would have had nothing against playing a resurrected warden if Bioware would have gave me a good reason for his resurrection. But my decisions not being reflected if I play the Orlesian Warden, and no good reason to be alive again? I'm afraid I will pass. It was my first playthrough, so it has special meaning for me, and I wish this meaning could have been carried over to the expansion.

But I'm not stupid. I knew before I killed off my character that DA had very successful sales, and that an expansion was probably on the way. So I asked myself if I was ready to let him die. I had another idea for a character, so I made the Ultimate Sacrifice, and now I guess he will stay dead.

Someone asked if I'd rather have less spells, talents, etc., just so I could have better continuity. Yeah, in a heartbeat. I don't care about new spells, I care about the story. You can even delay the game, I don't care, just so my friends can remember me, and Dog can still be with me.

I'm totally with you on this one. I don't really care about having more spells, talents, and l00t.  Story continuity is considerably more important to me and I'm rather disappointed that the companions who told me they'd stay with me along with Dog won't be continuing on into Awakenings.

But really, Bioware? Oghren of all the fascinating characters you've created? No romance? No Ultimate Sacrifice continuity? I'll wait to read IGN's review before I buy.

Oggy is ok, but he wasn't on the short list of characters who were most likely to continue with my warden at the end of Origins given the ending I had.  So there is something of a continuity disconnect for me there that I'm not happy about. And as far as romances are concerned, the ability to continue something with Leliana at your side, an opportunity to explore a relationship with Anora if you're engaged/married to her,  or a romance with Mahri who kind of comes across to me as a cross between Ser Cauthrien & Tali would have been really nice.

[munrohk]

I don't think it's wise to say how much or how little work would have been involved in accommodating the US storyline. It's easy to say only a couple of cutscenes would be involved, but they might be more ambitious with continuity then that.



For every plot element that involves continuity, Bioware will have to contend with each of the possible n situations. If you add full support for the US plot with an Orlesian warden, you'd n*2 situations. If you give the Orlesian warden a fixed backstory, you'd have n+1 situations.



Bioware went with the latter. Dropping the US is a huge oopsie, which suggests that the amount of work to go from n+1 to n*2 is significant enough to make the oopsie acceptable. Which suggests that n is big.



n being big is good.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Woah, that's pretty bad. I hope there actually is a decent explanation for it in-game instead of the Ultimate Sacrifice just being considered non-canon.



Scary stuff, reminds me of the "Great Priestly Misunderstanding" of last Christmas.

[DionKnight]

With a little more thought on the part of the DEV's, even importing your slain character shouldn't have been a problem, IE: Origins = main character slain, sequel = main character found wandering naked in the wilderness with no recollection (other than occasional dream sequences memories or nightmares) of previous existence but through the benevolent act of a Deity in recognition of their sacrifice,they were resurrected with skills and such intact.



If story line developers could think more like authors things like this could happen and be a non issue... but then of course then they would probably all be off writing books and earning the big bucks now wouldn't they?

[Russalka]

Hmm, the expansion itself appeared rather fast. And maybe this time period wassn't enough to connect all loose ends from the end of the game.



I smell the greedy hands of EA here.

[Nial Black-Knee]

How greedy can they be? DA:O sold 3.2 million copies. Times that times the price of the game. They made a feaken mint off this game.

[Blackoutt21]

All I'm asking for is a reason why my characters alive, not just for the sake of this expansion but for the sake of the next game. I really doubt Bioware is just gonna skip everything that happened in the last game for the sequel. I understand they can't change anything before release but couldn't they just patch in a reason why I'm alive. Heck, even if before I started the game I got a Star wars esque text wall about what happened I'd be satisified.

[Vim]

munrohk wrote...

I don't think it's wise to say how much or how little work would have been involved in accommodating the US storyline. It's easy to say only a couple of cutscenes would be involved, but they might be more ambitious with continuity then that.

For every plot element that involves continuity, Bioware will have to contend with each of the possible n situations. If you add full support for the US plot with an Orlesian warden, you'd n*2 situations. If you give the Orlesian warden a fixed backstory, you'd have n+1 situations.

Bioware went with the latter. Dropping the US is a huge oopsie, which suggests that the amount of work to go from n+1 to n*2 is significant enough to make the oopsie acceptable. Which suggests that n is big.

n being big is good.

Well at least we agree that dropping the US the way they did is a huge oopsie.  I do grant that you have a point on the subject of it being a little premature to estimate the additional work handling the US properly would have required.  Nevertheless it won't be much longer before the expansion is released and then we'll know just how big "n" happens to be.

[thegreateski]

Oghren: Say, Warden. How are you not dead?

Warden: @$%!# if I know. Probably the same reason that you're no longer a drunk. yah know, it didn't sing it didn't dance.

[durasteel]

If your character died, play as the new Orlesian Warden. If you must play as your dead Warden, then you're making that choice - BioWare is simply giving you the option. Say "thank you" and move along.

[Vim]

durasteel wrote...

If your character died, play as the new Orlesian Warden. If you must play as your dead Warden, then you're making that choice - BioWare is simply giving you the option. Say "thank you" and move along.

In the future, you really should  at least try to understand what others are complaining about before you start lecturing them.  And for the record, none of my characters have had an US ending so it doesn't effect me personally. I have however taken the time to understand why they're unhappy, and having done that, I have to concur with them that the US ending was mishandled from a game continuity/story consistency perspective.  Perhaps game continuity & story consistency don't matter to you, but kindly respect the fact that there are many people to whom it does.