1118 réponses à ce sujet

[worksa8]

Feraele wrote...

worksa8 wrote...

I read the first post- why the **** would I read through 30 pages?

Okay....why the ***** are you posting in this thread then?   Its not something you care about ..is it?

I stated my opinion, and I stand by it. Apparently you care what I think too, since your losing your head over it.

[Feraele]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...

Feraele wrote...

worksa8 wrote...

This whole arguement is stupid. It's not like they took anything away, they just gave you a yes or no option. You don't have to do it!

Your response.....did you read any of this thread, or you just came here to argue?

"you don't have to do it"   that is the usual response of people who don't get it, never read about the issue itself..and personally don't give a damn about the issue as it doesn't affect them.

So why are you posting in this thread..if you don't care?

Feraele - You are persistent, and I applaud you. I gave up long ago on trying to convince most of the forum goers of even the smallest thing. The Bioware communtiy has changed quite a bit.

Well ..if they persist in being thick-headed...I can do the same.

Maybe its time some people learned the word  empathy.   Or even sympathy.   I see too much of that kind of "wowite" trolling on the internetz.     So I stand my ground.

Thanks Rylor   hehe

[Feraele]

worksa8 wrote...

Feraele wrote...

worksa8 wrote...

I read the first post- why the **** would I read through 30 pages?

Okay....why the ***** are you posting in this thread then?   Its not something you care about ..is it?

I stated my opinion, and I stand by it. Apparently you care what I think too, since your losing your head over it.

Haven't lost a thing..but I do get that you like arguing with me..and running this topic off the rails..right?

[Feraele]

master-fluff wrote...

Feraele wrote... (clipped for brevity)

... We'll see how Awakening plays out...but damn it all anyways the Ultimate Sacrifice was the coolest, most emotional ending I have ever experienced in a game,  and they went and ...well did nothing with it.   

I see that as a missed opportunity..one that I hope they don't overlook in the future for whatever game of theirs it might pop up in. ...

This. 100x this. 

It's maddening that my PC, the 5th GW to end a Blight, and everything she accomplished is just wiped from history to be replaced by (presumably) a male Cousland and whatever The Ministry of Truth decides to wrangle into the "correct" story.  Way to respect her whole narrative and her US.

I shall have a wry smile on my face in Awakening when we get to this bit:

"Join us, Brothers and Sisters, join us in the Shadows where we stand
vigilant.  Join us as we carry the duty that can not be forsaken, and
should you perish know that you're sacrifice shall not be forgotten and
that one day… We shall join you."

Yeh, right.

I know I think I'll be doing the same thing.

[worksa8]

Feraele wrote...

worksa8 wrote...

Feraele wrote...

worksa8 wrote...

I read the first post- why the **** would I read through 30 pages?

Okay....why the ***** are you posting in this thread then?   Its not something you care about ..is it?

I stated my opinion, and I stand by it. Apparently you care what I think too, since your losing your head over it.

Haven't lost a thing..but I do get that you like arguing with me..and running this topic off the rails..right?

I do recall that was you. Not me.

[Feraele]

worksa8 wrote...

Feraele wrote...

worksa8 wrote...

Feraele wrote...

worksa8 wrote...

I read the first post- why the **** would I read through 30 pages?

Okay....why the ***** are you posting in this thread then?   Its not something you care about ..is it?

I stated my opinion, and I stand by it. Apparently you care what I think too, since your losing your head over it.

Haven't lost a thing..but I do get that you like arguing with me..and running this topic off the rails..right?

I do recall that was you. Not me.

Now now..just 'fess up..you'll feel better for it

[worksa8]

I responded to the topic, not your debate with someone else. =P

Modifié par worksa8, 12 mars 2010 - 03:25 .

[Feraele]

Jack Anvil wrote...

I'm just guessing. If they are having problems transferring certain saves from Origins to Awakening, I don't see how exporting to a sequel would be feasible.

I think you're probably right..if they can't do it for Origins, why would they be able to do it ..for say DA:2?

[Feraele]

worksa8 wrote...

I responded to the topic, not your debate with someone else. =P

And you responded with a response that doesn't take the issue into consideration at all.  

Well..just don't do it..thats been the response of several that don't think about it first and don't care to think about it.

YOUR playstyle is not the only one that exists, and funny enough..this is a roleplaying game, and what we are talking about ..IS roleplay.

So the pat answer..."well just don't do it" ...doesn't work here.

[worksa8]

I think it works quite well. They only gave you the option so that if you had a dead warden because if you didn't know there was an expansion coming then you wouldn't be told you could not have the same play opportunities as other people. Some things have to go BEYOND roleplaying and into the fact that it is indeed a game you are paying for.

Now if your done bashing me and have a decent arguement that's fine, but so far all you've done is make false assumptions and stating things about how I play and what I think- when they are mostly wrong.

I'm not going to waste my afternoon on this, if you can handle a discussion maturely then I'll be open for a response.

[Feraele]

worksa8 wrote...

I think it works quite well. They only gave you the option so that if you had a dead warden because if you didn't know there was an expansion coming then you wouldn't be told you could not have the same play opportunities as other people. Some things have to go BEYOND roleplaying and into the fact that it is indeed a game you are paying for.
Now if your done bashing me and have a decent arguement that's fine, but so far all you've done is make false assumptions and stating things about how I play and what I think- when they are mostly wrong.
I'm not going to waste my afternoon on this, if you can handle a discussion maturely then I'll be open for a response.

They gave an option for the non-roleplayers..they didn't give an option for the rest of us...

Option: play your dead warden and the ultimate sacrifice never happened..matter of fact WHO killed the archdemon or is it still living?

Option: leave your warden dead...and the ultimate sacrifice never happened, its never recorded history..it disappeared into the mists to be lost forever..

The second option is what the roleplayers are left with.    So we have no option.

[Feraele]

worksa8 wrote...



I think it works quite well. They only gave you the option so that if you had a dead warden because if you didn't know there was an expansion coming then you wouldn't be told you could not have the same play opportunities as other people. Some things have to go BEYOND roleplaying and into the fact that it is indeed a game you are paying for.

Now if your done bashing me and have a decent arguement that's fine, but so far all you've done is make false assumptions and stating things about how I play and what I think- when they are mostly wrong.

I'm not going to waste my afternoon on this, if you can handle a discussion maturely then I'll be open for a response.





--------end quote-------



Please tell me where I was "bashing" you...most times I post things with a very large smile on my face. hehe



If you feel bashed..well I'm sorry you feel that way, perhaps its your own attitude that is bashing you, it certainly isn't me.

[Vim]

worksa8 wrote in one post:

This whole arguement is stupid. 

And then in a follow-up post he wrote:

I read the first post- why the **** would I read through 30 pages?

Perhaps if you had read more than just the first post you might at least have understood the "whole argument" before calling it stupid.   As you said in another follow-up post:

I responded to the topic, not your debate with someone else. =P

Then you shouldn't have referred to the "whole argument".  You should have been a bit more specific.

It's not like they took anything away, they just gave you a yes or no option. You don't have to do it!

This is where it's so very clear that you don't understand the "whole argument", because they do take something away.  They take away the effects of the decisions you made in Origins if you made the decision to sacrifice your character on behalf of his country. Suddenly it's as if none of your decisions mattered -unless- you're willing to pretend your character didn't die or was somehow miraculously resurrected.  The main complaint isn't that it's wrong to transfer a warden who made the ultimate sacrifice, it's that they're being forced to do so if they want any of their other decisions to matter.  And either way, their character's sacrifice is being taken away from them.  It's like it never happened because nobody in the game will acknowledge it.

None of my endings are US endings, but I have to agree with them.  Bioware should have given those players who sacrificed their characters the option of transferring the results of their decisions (including the death of their Origins character) just as it did for characters that survived.  They'd play the new Orlesian warden in the expansion, but at least they'd feel that their sacrifice (and other decisions) in Origins mattered. 

Modifié par Vim, 12 mars 2010 - 05:34 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Feraele wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

shellys639 wrote...

didnt gaxkang and another character say that your gw character was being watched from on high?might have something to do with your being revived.

Yes, I was thinking this exact thing, but along the lines of what Wynne said.  A good spirit can be summoned from the fade and returned to life.  My question will be and will they answer this question in the expansion, who summoned me?  Was it my love Alistair, Morrigan, maybe Wynne gave her life to revive me?  Don't forget the elf ruin and the AW elf warrior that you release and return to the maker!   Plus, what is the signal at the tower of Ishal?
So I don't understand why folks are getting all bent out of shape of being revived for Awakening for their dead warden character.

A Grey Warden who is now a Revenant!!!!!  I would love that.  So you think you can kick my butt in battle, we'll see!  Bring it!

Because Evalia..if you read this thread or even part of it..you'll get why.  

Ultimate sacrifice portrays the warden doing his/her duty..or job.   Wardens are taught that it is only themselves that can bring down an Archdemon for good.    The way that is done is the two souls collide inside the Warden that deals the killing blow, thus the Warden dies along with the "immortal" archdemon. 

If anyone else "kills" the Archdemon...that soul will just fly off into yet another darkspawn ..to recreate the Archdemon all over again.

So it IS the duty of each Grey Warden to attempt to bring the Archdemon down, if they are in the vicinity.

To all of a sudden just say" well we don't care if your Warden comes alive for some reason...thats up to you.

Thats fine for those who aren't roleplayers..or would rather play their dead warden.

It just leaves the rest of the folks who would like an indication..or some news, or a  chat, or a cut-scene to carry the news to the Orlesian ..so that its evident to the Orlesian who  he's taking over for and WHY.

But this is OLD news and OLD debate.    Best way to get a good idea of the issues at hand, is to do some reading.   

The Ultimate Sacrifice is the best...most heroic ending..to alot of folks,  to just ignore it like it never happened, is very sad.

One of the reasons its being ignored is due to some "technical difficulty".   It just surprises me that they wouldn't have attempted to remedy this ...because it really would have been something great.

Continuity..of the legacy type.    Legacy import of your dead warden history....

Maybe some day that will happen.

Thank you for your response, but you're not following along what I responded to Shelley639 and our catch on the lore within the story.  Yes, what you wrote is true, but there is more lore within DA:O to suggest that your dead warden can be revived from the fade, thus no need for the Orlesian Commander to have an explanation into your background and legend, because you have been returned as the Warden, thus no explanation is needed because you as the revived warden have returned to do battle against the new threat.   It's a choice on how you choose to move forward within the expansion and how you choose to roleplay it.  The lore of only the Grey Warden dying to kill the archdemon isn't the only way as Morrigan's ritual suggests, there could be more rituals that we don't know about yet.  If you revive your character there maybe more lore coming on how you survived or were resurrected, we'll have to wait and see.

There is a cut scene with your discussions with Wynne I think when in Ostagar and her info on the connection with darkspawn and the fade and some spirits who are in the fade now are not all evil, thus her protector, whom I have always suspected was King Maric himself.  Good and evil both can be summoned through the fade.  Thus, the answer is already given within the lore for a live or dead warden.   This is what Shelly639 and I both picked up on.  If your dead warden is resurrected (if this is the way you choose to play) who summoned you and why.  We know why we have been revived, but not by whom.  The lore is there for both ways of roleplaying.   BioWare/EA has already given the lore to play it both ways.  This is why they tell in the FAQ on Awakening it's your option to revive your character, there is a hint there that we are not told about, how were you summoned and this is what Shelley639 and I both picked up on.  I see more lore coming to answer this possible question.  They have never explained what the signal at the Tower of Ishal is all about.  Gaxkang also mentions this which Shelly pointed out.  Why did Gaxkang mention the tower? Whose eyes are upon you?  The archdemon or something higher such as the maker or something else entirely. 

Why did Alistair need all of those runestones?  If you've read the book "The Calling" you know more on Alistair's true background and his real origins, not what the game actually told.  If Alistair is king in your story he could be the one to resurrect you especially if you were his love interest or with Morrigan or Wynne doing the deed or was it the Maker Himself who ressurrected you which Lelianna would suggest.  Maybe Lelianna cured you with the ashes?  Who knows, it will be interesting to see answers on these questions if they are ever answered at all.  The lore is there to play this alive or dead, the choice is yours.  If you had a love interest with Alistair or Morrigan, maybe they couldn't bare the thought of you being dead.  They can't acknowledge their deed of dabbling in blood magic,  thus no romance within Awakenings.  We are also not told if Anora is connected with blood magic, her father Logain was with his connection to Howe and Howe's use of blood mages.  In the male human noble story Lelianna hints at this as well if you read all of your origin ending lore and what happend to your companions after your death.  During gameplay if you take Zevran with you on the urn quest he also tells that the crows dabble in blood magic as well, so there is another love interest who could have brought you back.  Zev is an elf after all and they have ancient magic as well.  Maybe Sten couldn't bare the thought of a true warrior and saviour falling in battle that way and had the "Qun" revive you?  Heck maybe it was your dog, his bloodline is ancient afterall.  The possibilities are many!!!  Let your imagination run wild.

Also, if BioWare and EA develop a way to keep importing your character through expansion and sequel wouldn't they make video game history and one of the biggest cash cows of all times for a RPG, seems to me they'd be fools not to develop this and become a mega giant in the industry, if they pull this off I might have to invest.  If they listen to their player fan base they'd be fools not to expand this game in this direction.   BioWare are you up for the challenge? I certainly hope so, you've got me as a consumer drawn in hook line and sinker with this story.

[Vim]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

  Yes, what you wrote is true, but there is more lore within DA:O to suggest that your dead warden can be revived from the fade, thus no need for the Orlesian Commander to have an explanation into your background and legend, because you have been returned as the Warden, thus no explanation is needed because you as the revived warden have returned to do battle against the new threat.   It's a choice on how you choose to move forward within the expansion and how you choose to roleplay it.  The lore of only the Grey Warden dying to kill the archdemon isn't the only way as Morrigan's ritual suggests, there could be more rituals that we don't know about yet.  If you revive your character there maybe more lore coming on how you survived or were resurrected, we'll have to wait and see.

But there won't be because it will no longer be feasible.  The place to have integrated a warden's sacrifice and subsequent revival into the story line would naturally be the moment the warden wakes up alive when he or she expected to be dead. Instead they hand-waved it and it will be assumed that your warden had never sacrificed himself if you choose to continue with your dead warden (as stated in Bioware's Awakening FAQ). And if you choose to let your warden's sacrifice stand when you play the expansion, then it will be as if he or she never existed and the choices he or she made never happened.

Modifié par Vim, 12 mars 2010 - 06:03 .

[Lord_Darkmoon]

I hope and pray that DA 2 will tell a different story, set in another part of the world in another timeframe so that we do not have to worry about importing our character. And I hope that Bioware learned their lesson and will not include multiple endings again!

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Vim wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

  Yes, what you wrote is true, but there is more lore within DA:O to suggest that your dead warden can be revived from the fade, thus no need for the Orlesian Commander to have an explanation into your background and legend, because you have been returned as the Warden, thus no explanation is needed because you as the revived warden have returned to do battle against the new threat.   It's a choice on how you choose to move forward within the expansion and how you choose to roleplay it.  The lore of only the Grey Warden dying to kill the archdemon isn't the only way as Morrigan's ritual suggests, there could be more rituals that we don't know about yet.  If you revive your character there maybe more lore coming on how you survived or were resurrected, we'll have to wait and see.

But there won't be because it will no longer be feasible.  The place to have integrated a warden's sacrifice and subsequent revival into the story line would naturally be the moment the warden wakes up alive when he or she expected to be dead. Instead they hand-waved it and it will be assumed that your warden had never sacrificed himself if you choose to continue with your dead warden (as stated in Bioware's Awakening FAQ). And if you choose to let your warden's sacrifice stand when you play the expansion, then it will be as if he or she never existed and the choices he or she made never happened.

You're assuming they won't answer this question.  We don't know this for sure since none of us has played Awakenings yet.   If they don't I still disagree because the lore is in the game to give an explantion yay or nay for a dead or live warden.  It's you and your imagination and as Flemeth said, what do you believe?  Blood magic is involved to bring you back regardless of who did it.  Whomever did it can't fuss up that they did the ritual to bring you back because it's forbidden blood magic.  Alistair can't fuss up because he could be King, Anora for the same reason.  Morrigan would be hunted by the chantry and who knows what would happen to Wynne if she used forbidden blood magic since she is a Circle Mage?  Zevran would be the best to get away with it.  He can move around where the others are to easily exposed.  Morrigan could get away with it too.  Since she left and made the comment she has a destiny as well.  She didn't get her demon spawn if you died, so she would still need a grey warden, she would have a reason to revive you if not for love.  Morrigan also changes form and runs away, she could have been near by to revive you and she has tendencies toward a blood mage that Wynne didn't have or isn't susposed to have. 

Awakenings has to start with the King or Queen in Denerim  for the adventure to begin, if not why does Alistair or Anora need cameos unless it's to start it off?  We all know that the Grey Wardens rebuild  in the new adventure and the new keep, they have to travel to the new keep.  The new threat is to Fereldren and it has to start in Denerim at the Palace for the quest to be given by the King or Queen, unless we assume we have already traveled there by the King or Queen's request or we have to travel back to Denerim to talk with the King or Queen.

We are told when the warden dies your body is to be taken to the Grey Warden's headquarters in Weisshaupt fortress to be entombed with the four other wardens who gave their lives killing archdemons; but, did your body make it there?  Riordan tells us, that is one heck of a long journey, over a thousand miles.  What did they do with Riordan's body?  Your shown on a slab dead, not entombed yet or your susposed to be dead, or you could be just stuck in the fade the same as Arl Eamon.  That was one heck of a blast when the archdemon died.  You could be wondering around in the Fade until someone revives you, it's not like you haven't been there before!  The lore is there to give an explanation.  So I have to disagree with you.  If Alistair is King and he is the senior grey warden it stands to reason he is in control of your body or if Anora is Queen, someone had access to your body. Plus, Riordan dies too, it might be his body in that tomb and not yours! 

My thoughts, it had to be Morrigan or Wynne who revived you.  Morrigan needs a Grey Warden and she had an established relationship with you male or female.  If you've read the Calling and have thoughts that I have on Wynne you might understand why she would resurrect you as the love interest for Alistair.  If Alistair loved you as he said, and if you know Alistair's true background and Alistair does know a blood mage or too, he could have you called forth if you communicated with Alistair, Wynne, or Morrigan through their dreams.  None involved can acknowledge you as the revived warden.  Maybe the Orleisan Warden is a cover story for your revived body?  However it plays out we're given three options:  call forth your dead warden, play your live warden, or become the new Orlesian Warden.  If your an Orelesian Warden, I'm sure he heard of your legend anyway.  The Orlesian wardens knew what happened in Denerim because of Riordan being sent, so it's all been explained away if you follow the lore of the game.

[cylriasilver]

worksa8 wrote...

This whole arguement is stupid. It's not like they took anything away, they just gave you a yes or no option. You don't have to do it!

To answer this simply (again). They are giving us a yes option, but they took away the no option. We either resurrect our US warden (with the story completely ignoring the fact you died) or you start a game that assumes you never played DA:O.

[Vim]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Vim wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

  Yes, what you wrote is true, but there is more lore within DA:O to suggest that your dead warden can be revived from the fade, thus no need for the Orlesian Commander to have an explanation into your background and legend, because you have been returned as the Warden, thus no explanation is needed because you as the revived warden have returned to do battle against the new threat.   It's a choice on how you choose to move forward within the expansion and how you choose to roleplay it.  The lore of only the Grey Warden dying to kill the archdemon isn't the only way as Morrigan's ritual suggests, there could be more rituals that we don't know about yet.  If you revive your character there maybe more lore coming on how you survived or were resurrected, we'll have to wait and see.

But there won't be because it will no longer be feasible.  The place to have integrated a warden's sacrifice and subsequent revival into the story line would naturally be the moment the warden wakes up alive when he or she expected to be dead. Instead they hand-waved it and it will be assumed that your warden had never sacrificed himself if you choose to continue with your dead warden (as stated in Bioware's Awakening FAQ). And if you choose to let your warden's sacrifice stand when you play the expansion, then it will be as if he or she never existed and the choices he or she made never happened.

You're assuming they won't answer this question.  We don't know this for sure since none of us has played Awakenings yet. 

I'm not assuming anything, you are.  They've already answered the question, but you're assuming that they'll change their minds later down the road.  You're the one who is attempting to find some way to rationalize around the fact that everyone in the game is going to act as if you never died despite the fact there was a funeral if you made the US at the end of Origins.  Not everyone has as easy enough time suspending disbelief when faced with a huge inconsistency as you do.

If they don't I still disagree because the lore is in the game to give an explantion yay or nay for a dead or live warden.  It's you and your imagination and as Flemeth said, what do you believe?  Blood magic is involved to bring you back regardless of who did it.  Whomever did it can't fuss up that they did the ritual to bring you back because it's forbidden blood magic.  Alistair can't fuss up because he could be King, Anora for the same reason.  Morrigan would be hunted by the chantry and who knows what would happen to Wynne if she used forbidden blood magic since she is a Circle Mage?  Zevran would be the best to get away with it.  He can move around where the others are to easily exposed.  Morrigan could get away with it too.  Since she left and made the comment she has a destiny as well.  She didn't get her demon spawn if you died, so she would still need a grey warden, she would have a reason to revive you if not for love.  Morrigan also changes form and runs away, she could have been near by to revive you and she has tendencies toward a blood mage that Wynne didn't have or isn't susposed to have. 

Awakenings has to start with the King or Queen in Denerim  for the adventure to begin, if not why does Alistair or Anora need cameos unless it's to start it off?  We all know that the Grey Wardens rebuild  in the new adventure and the new keep, they have to travel to the new keep.  The new threat is to Fereldren and it has to start in Denerim at the Palace for the quest to be given by the King or Queen, unless we assume we have already traveled there by the King or Queen's request or we have to travel back to Denerim to talk with the King or Queen.

We are told when the warden dies your body is to be taken to the Grey Warden's headquarters in Weisshaupt fortress to be entombed with the four other wardens who gave their lives killing archdemons; but, did your body make it there?  Riordan tells us, that is one heck of a long journey, over a thousand miles.  What did they do with Riordan's body?  Your shown on a slab dead, not entombed yet or your susposed to be dead, or you could be just stuck in the fade the same as Arl Eamon.  That was one heck of a blast when the archdemon died.  You could be wondering around in the Fade until someone revives you, it's not like you haven't been there before!  The lore is there to give an explanation.  So I have to disagree with you.  If Alistair is King and he is the senior grey warden it stands to reason he is in control of your body or if Anora is Queen, someone had access to your body. Plus, Riordan dies too, it might be his body in that tomb and not yours! 

My thoughts, it had to be Morrigan or Wynne who revived you.  Morrigan needs a Grey Warden and she had an established relationship with you male or female.  If you've read the Calling and have thoughts that I have on Wynne you might understand why she would resurrect you as the love interest for Alistair.  If Alistair loved you as he said, and if you know Alistair's true background and Alistair does know a blood mage or too, he could have you called forth if you communicated with Alistair, Wynne, or Morrigan through their dreams.  None involved can acknowledge you as the revived warden.  Maybe the Orleisan Warden is a cover story for your revived body?  However it plays out we're given three options:  call forth your dead warden, play your live warden, or become the new Orlesian Warden.  If your an Orelesian Warden, I'm sure he heard of your legend anyway.  The Orlesian wardens knew what happened in Denerim because of Riordan being sent, so it's all been explained away if you follow the lore of the game.

All of your rationalizations conflict with the events at the end of Origins, the world state at the beginning of Awakening as it has been revealed to us by the developers, or both. You clearly don't have any difficulty ignoring huge inconsistencies and believing what you want to believe. Other people however don't feel the same and their feelings are no less valid than yours.

Modifié par Vim, 13 mars 2010 - 03:24 .

[YohkoOhno]

To answer this simply (again). They are giving us a yes option, but they took away the no option. We either resurrect our US warden (with the story completely ignoring the fact you died) or you start a game that assumes you never played DA:O.

The third option is not to play at all with that character.



After all, if the US is the most emotional sacrifice you could ever make, then there shouldn't be any sequels or storylines using that character ever again. You wanted the sacrifice, so consider that story "game over, no more stories", and just use the expansions on those that chose to live.



To be honest, I suspect DA2 will be a future generation--even if alive the Joining means you're going to die at a rather young age. It is unlike a true sequel will ever focus on all the nigling choices--Mass Effect 2 had some continuity but they didn't go into all the details either. I doubt they'll ever get into all the specific choices if you're in another part of Ferelden.

[cylriasilver]

YohkoOhno wrote...

To answer this simply (again). They are giving us a yes option, but they took away the no option. We either resurrect our US warden (with the story completely ignoring the fact you died) or you start a game that assumes you never played DA:O.

The third option is not to play at all with that character.

After all, if the US is the most emotional sacrifice you could ever make, then there shouldn't be any sequels or storylines using that character ever again. You wanted the sacrifice, so consider that story "game over, no more stories", and just use the expansions on those that chose to live.

To be honest, I suspect DA2 will be a future generation--even if alive the Joining means you're going to die at a rather young age. It is unlike a true sequel will ever focus on all the nigling choices--Mass Effect 2 had some continuity but they didn't go into all the details either. I doubt they'll ever get into all the specific choices if you're in another part of Ferelden.

Just because a character dies, that doesn't mean there can't be sequels starring new characters (the Orleasian Warden for example).

[AlanC9]

YohkoOhno wrote..

The third option is not to play at all with that character.

Indeed. And that's what I'll do. 

What bugs me is that Bio's already most of the way there. You've already got the Orlesian to play.

[MClover]

HOW THE HELL IS THIS THREAD STILL GOING?!?



They made this an option for people who don't really give two sh**s about canon. If you don't like, then don't play your dead warden............................................

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Vim wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Vim wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

  Yes, what you wrote is true, but there is more lore within DA:O to suggest that your dead warden can be revived from the fade, thus no need for the Orlesian Commander to have an explanation into your background and legend, because you have been returned as the Warden, thus no explanation is needed because you as the revived warden have returned to do battle against the new threat.   It's a choice on how you choose to move forward within the expansion and how you choose to roleplay it.  The lore of only the Grey Warden dying to kill the archdemon isn't the only way as Morrigan's ritual suggests, there could be more rituals that we don't know about yet.  If you revive your character there maybe more lore coming on how you survived or were resurrected, we'll have to wait and see.

But there won't be because it will no longer be feasible.  The place to have integrated a warden's sacrifice and subsequent revival into the story line would naturally be the moment the warden wakes up alive when he or she expected to be dead. Instead they hand-waved it and it will be assumed that your warden had never sacrificed himself if you choose to continue with your dead warden (as stated in Bioware's Awakening FAQ). And if you choose to let your warden's sacrifice stand when you play the expansion, then it will be as if he or she never existed and the choices he or she made never happened.

You're assuming they won't answer this question.  We don't know this for sure since none of us has played Awakenings yet. 

I'm not assuming anything, you are.  They've already answered the question, but you're assuming that they'll change their minds later down the road.  You're the one who is attempting to find some way to rationalize around the fact that everyone in the game is going to act as if you never died despite the fact there was a funeral if you made the US at the end of Origins.  Not everyone has as easy enough time suspending disbelief when faced with a huge inconsistency as you do.

If they don't I still disagree because the lore is in the game to give an explantion yay or nay for a dead or live warden.  It's you and your imagination and as Flemeth said, what do you believe?  Blood magic is involved to bring you back regardless of who did it.  Whomever did it can't fuss up that they did the ritual to bring you back because it's forbidden blood magic.  Alistair can't fuss up because he could be King, Anora for the same reason.  Morrigan would be hunted by the chantry and who knows what would happen to Wynne if she used forbidden blood magic since she is a Circle Mage?  Zevran would be the best to get away with it.  He can move around where the others are to easily exposed.  Morrigan could get away with it too.  Since she left and made the comment she has a destiny as well.  She didn't get her demon spawn if you died, so she would still need a grey warden, she would have a reason to revive you if not for love.  Morrigan also changes form and runs away, she could have been near by to revive you and she has tendencies toward a blood mage that Wynne didn't have or isn't susposed to have. 

Awakenings has to start with the King or Queen in Denerim  for the adventure to begin, if not why does Alistair or Anora need cameos unless it's to start it off?  We all know that the Grey Wardens rebuild  in the new adventure and the new keep, they have to travel to the new keep.  The new threat is to Fereldren and it has to start in Denerim at the Palace for the quest to be given by the King or Queen, unless we assume we have already traveled there by the King or Queen's request or we have to travel back to Denerim to talk with the King or Queen.

We are told when the warden dies your body is to be taken to the Grey Warden's headquarters in Weisshaupt fortress to be entombed with the four other wardens who gave their lives killing archdemons; but, did your body make it there?  Riordan tells us, that is one heck of a long journey, over a thousand miles.  What did they do with Riordan's body?  Your shown on a slab dead, not entombed yet or your susposed to be dead, or you could be just stuck in the fade the same as Arl Eamon.  That was one heck of a blast when the archdemon died.  You could be wondering around in the Fade until someone revives you, it's not like you haven't been there before!  The lore is there to give an explanation.  So I have to disagree with you.  If Alistair is King and he is the senior grey warden it stands to reason he is in control of your body or if Anora is Queen, someone had access to your body. Plus, Riordan dies too, it might be his body in that tomb and not yours! 

My thoughts, it had to be Morrigan or Wynne who revived you.  Morrigan needs a Grey Warden and she had an established relationship with you male or female.  If you've read the Calling and have thoughts that I have on Wynne you might understand why she would resurrect you as the love interest for Alistair.  If Alistair loved you as he said, and if you know Alistair's true background and Alistair does know a blood mage or too, he could have you called forth if you communicated with Alistair, Wynne, or Morrigan through their dreams.  None involved can acknowledge you as the revived warden.  Maybe the Orleisan Warden is a cover story for your revived body?  However it plays out we're given three options:  call forth your dead warden, play your live warden, or become the new Orlesian Warden.  If your an Orelesian Warden, I'm sure he heard of your legend anyway.  The Orlesian wardens knew what happened in Denerim because of Riordan being sent, so it's all been explained away if you follow the lore of the game.

All of your rationalizations conflict with the events at the end of Origins, the world state at the beginning of Awakening as it has been revealed to us by the developers, or both. You clearly don't have any difficulty ignoring huge inconsistencies and believing what you want to believe. Other people however don't feel the same and their feelings are no less valid than yours.

How does my rationalizations conflict with the events at the end of Origins when we as players have so many different choices for each character on how to end the game?  We have six origins stories to begin with, which in turn gives you the possibility of twelve characters right there to develop.  Playing male or female.  Straight, gay, or bi.  How do you end each character's story at the end?  We have already been told how you ended your individual origin will impact the starting of Awakenings even with a dead warden.  How many endings are there really?

Your missing my point that the lore has been provided for players to have multiple endings so it can end anyway you want and you can start awakenings anyway you want with any character that you have developed.  BioWare wouldn't have told us that option for the dead warden was available unless more lore is coming to explain this event.  None of us will know until we play this expansion.  Don't you get it, that is one heck of a plot twist if they provide that answer or they wait and provide it with the sequel, even if they don't I have no problems with it.  I can't help it if you do.  I never in anyway implied that anyones feelings or their opinions didn't matter.  You're the jerk for saying so.  It's obvious to me you haven't read all of the lore within the game and books before the game was released  that also isn't my problem.  Nobody is twisting your arm to import you're dead warden and maybe get the chance to see the reactions of your former party members who will be available.  I do understand what you are saying I just gave you a possible solution based on the lore.  Isn't the real question why is the dead warden option even available. Like I said, one heck of a plot twist for a dead warden. 

BioWare sort of answered this question on Friday when they revealed the character Justice.  I suggest you go and watch his info video.  They just answered this question of being called back and forth through the fade which we were already given within the game.  If you'd read all of the lore, dialogue, and codex entires you would have come to the realization that a dead warden can be summoned back from death through the fade and any past or furture character can be summoned back and forth through the fade which the Connor side quest provides information on and Wynne also gives this information and so does the codex entries on Flemeth.  Commander Dryden was changed when the demon took over her body, the demon told you if you played warden's keep the Commander Dryden wouldn't die, really why not?  So don't tell me I'm not following the lore and my rationalization don't fit the story.  That is a load of bunk.

[Vim]

MClover wrote...

HOW THE HELL IS THIS THREAD STILL GOING?!?

They made this an option for people who don't really give two sh**s about canon. If you don't like, then don't play your dead warden............................................

Your first sentence is absolutely correct, but that's not the issue. There are countless posts explaining the real issue, but people who haven't taken the time to understand what the complaints are about keep making inaccurate assumptions like you just have. And then somebody feels motivated to point out that if perhaps they had read more of the thread they might understand what the thread is about like I just have. And thus the thread keeps going and going and going... 

Modifié par Vim, 13 mars 2010 - 08:57 .