1118 réponses à ce sujet

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

I know how your Grey Warden returned to life; he was sent to ER for treatment 

[Vim]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

How does my rationalizations conflict with the events at the end of Origins when we as players have so many different choices for each character on how to end the game?  We have six origins stories to begin with, which in turn gives you the possibility of twelve characters right there to develop.  Playing male or female.  Straight, gay, or bi.  How do you end each character's story at the end?  We have already been told how you ended your individual origin will impact the starting of Awakenings even with a dead warden.  How many endings are there really?

The other endings aren't a problem in this regard because they allow you to port both your character state and the decisions your character made. The US ending is the only one where you can only do one or the other. Either all your decisions EXCEPT the player warden's sacrifice are acknowledged or none of your decisions EXCEPT the sacrifice of the warden is recognized. (And in the latter case it won't feel like the player's warden but some generic warden instead.) Many of those who most enjoyed the US ending and want that ending to be transferred over aren't happy that the ending they chose isn't being respected like the others. What they wanted was the option to play the new replacement warden and have the choices of their sacrificed warden (like who the ruler of Ferelden is) be respected in the expansion just as those decisions would have been respected had their warden lived.

Your missing my point that the lore has been provided for players to have multiple endings so it can end anyway you want and you can start awakenings anyway you want with any character that you have developed.  BioWare wouldn't have told us that option for the dead warden was available unless more lore is coming to explain this event.  None of us will know until we play this expansion.

Again, it's already answered in Bioware's Official Awakening FAQ. Go read it.  Bioware admits that they aren't bothering to find an in game explanation, they're just going to hand-wave it and treat it as if your character's death never occurred.  If you don't have a problem with that then neither do they. You're free to come up with your own explanation and pretend that there is no conflict. But as far as Awakening is concerned, it's as if your character never died at all. The funeral that occurred at the end of Origins didn't really happen.  Nobody wonders how you managed to come back when they all could have sworn you were dead.

  Don't you get it, that is one heck of a plot twist if they provide that answer or they wait and provide it with the sequel, even if they don't I have no problems with it.  I can't help it if you do.  I never in anyway implied that anyones feelings or their opinions didn't matter.  You're the jerk for saying so.  It's obvious to me you haven't read all of the lore within the game and books before the game was released  that also isn't my problem.  Nobody is twisting your arm to import you're dead warden and maybe get the chance to see the reactions of your former party members who will be available.  I do understand what you are saying I just gave you a possible solution based on the lore.  Isn't the real question why is the dead warden option even available. Like I said, one heck of a plot twist for a dead warden. 

No, it's not the real question. You've already been told what the real issue is, but you keep ignoring what others tell you.

BioWare sort of answered this question on Friday when they revealed the character Justice.  I suggest you go and watch his info video.

He still looks likes a corpse to me, albeit one animated by a spirit of Justice. Not the same thing. I suggest you watch the video again.

  They just answered this question of being called back and forth through the fade which we were already given within the game.  If you'd read all of the lore, dialogue, and codex entires you would have come to the realization that a dead warden can be summoned back from death through the fade and any past or furture character can be summoned back and forth through the fade which the Connor side quest provides information on and Wynne also gives this information and so does the codex entries on Flemeth.  Commander Dryden was changed when the demon took over her body, the demon told you if you played warden's keep the Commander Dryden wouldn't die, really why not?  So don't tell me I'm not following the lore and my rationalization don't fit the story.  That is a load of bunk.

LOL.  I never claimed you weren't following the lore. My point is that you're ignoring the story inconsistencies that have been created in the transition from Origins to Awakening for the US ending.   You really need to read what Bioware's Official Awakening FAQ has to say about the subject  instead of ignoring it. Yes you can rationalize an explanation for why your character didn't really die, but in the end it doesn't change the fact that inconsistencies have been created and that a significant number of people who chose the US ending are upset that they weren't given the option of having all  their decisions (including their sacrifice) respected.

Modifié par Vim, 13 mars 2010 - 08:49 .

[Vim]

Lady light doorbell wrote...

I know how your Grey Warden returned to life; he was sent to ER for treatment 

[Stabbath123]

Cool, might check out that ending, Wasn't sure if you could do that sacrifice thingy. I'll be reloading though and choosing another option to carry on with the expansion however.

[sleepwatcherrpsg]

Guess I won't have an issue. My main play thru is me as queen and allister as king. Morrigan has the bastard prince somewhere though which can be an issue when it comes to replace allister as king. as for the sacrfiice to hell with it!

[Vim]

sleepwatcherrpsg wrote...

Guess I won't have an issue. My main play thru is me as queen and allister as king. Morrigan has the bastard prince somewhere though which can be an issue when it comes to replace allister as king. as for the sacrfiice to hell with it!

The funny thing is that it doesn't really affect me either. None of my favorite endings involve an ultimate sacrifice.  :PNevertheless story inconsistencies tend to irritate me, and the willingness of some people on this forum to criticize others without even bothering to understand what the people they're critizing are complaining about bugs me. So I have a great deal of sympathy for those who are affected.

[Moogliepie]

I am not a programmer, but I don't see why they wouldn't allow the option. After all, you choices ARE imported if you decide to import your dead warden (except the death itself somehow). So the files are there, they would just have had to make a few dialog options. I was hoping to see a huge statue honoring my character, but alas.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

You've already been given your acknowledgement for your US by the King or Queen's speech over your dead body. The King or Queen isn't going to announce that your statue is going to be placed at the Vigil's Keep or in Denerim unless that's going to happen. BioWare wouldn't have gone to the time and trouble to make that announcement in the ending scence if it wasn't so. They didn't just dump your body down the chantry well.

Your decisions for your world of Fereldan and Denerim were already decided when you made your US and killed the Archdemon. Then the King or Queen announced their edict on how your decisions changed Fereldan and Denerim. Howe's family lost their lands and titles, if you played the HN then Highever was restored to the Couslands. The elves were given their own homeland and I haven't played the dwarf origins so I don't know how that is affected as of yet.

If you import your dead warden in then something might be coming that we're not aware of. I don't think they'd allow this unless this is a plot twist. Aren't expansions plot twists an way to move a character into other areas of Thedas.

Personally, I'd think it'd be a hoot to be walking around my own statue for my honorable death, when I'm not actually dead. As far as I'm concerned someone did a blood ritual to bring me back. Did Wynne finally decide to die to give me that chance and Morrigan performed the ritual. Sounds like it is easily explained to me. As I've mentioned before the lore is in the game to make this so.

Morrigan and Flemeth know more than what they told about this ritual and there might have been another ritual that was done that we don't even know about if you choose the US. Don't forget Morrigan ran off somewhere. She also tells you in one of the dialogue choices to die or be overshadowed. Thus your overshadowing is your dead warden's return. So what is overshadowed? As far as I'm concerned it's a plot twist.  If you killed Flemeth then maybe you become overshadowed as Morrigan said.  Morrigan also plainly states after Ostagar in their hut that Flemeth was the healer.  Maybe Morrigan went and got mommy to bring you back.  If you killed Flemeth then your overshadowed whatever that means.

Once again, none of us will really know until we import a dead warden into awakenings to see what happens and if they explain how you survived your own death.  Don't forget the Joining of the Grey Warden's is an actual  blood ritual itself.  Blood rituals are an intrigual part of the plot, lore, and storyline.  Thus, as a warden you're an abombination just as Flemeth and Wynne are. Wynne is only alive because of something sustaining her from the fade. 

If BioWare and EA don't account for the dead warden returning or not dying when everyone thinks you did, then yeah, I'll have to agree and be a dissatisfied customer and I won't know that until I play the expansion or read what others write who have will import a dead warden. They may make a patch to account for this later because they had a deadline

We'll know on Tuesday once folks have played it. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 13 mars 2010 - 07:23 .

[Feraele]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

You've already been given your acknowledgement for your US by the King or Queen's speech over your dead body. The King or Queen isn't going to announce that your statue is going to be placed at the Vigil's Keep or in Denerim unless that's going to happen. BioWare wouldn't have gone to the time and trouble to make that announcement in the ending scence if it wasn't so. They didn't just dump your body down the chantry well.

Your decisions for your world of Fereldan and Denerim were already decided when you made your US and killed the Archdemon. Then the King or Queen announced their edict on how your decisions changed Fereldan and Denerim. Howe's family lost their lands and titles, if you played the HN then Highever was restored to the Couslands. The elves were given their own homeland and I haven't played the dwarf origins so I don't know how that is affected as of yet.

If you import your dead warden in then something might be coming that we're not aware of. I don't think they'd allow this unless this is a plot twist. Aren't expansions plot twists and a way to move a character into other areas of Thedas.

Personally, I'd think it'd be a hoot to be walking around my own statue for my honorable death, when I'm not actually dead. As far as I'm concerned someone did a blood ritual to bring me back. Did Wynne finally decide to die to give me that chance and Morrigan performed the ritual. Sounds like it is easily explained to me. As I've mentioned before the lore is in the game to make this so.

Morrigan and Flemeth know more than what they told about this ritual and there might have been another ritual that was done that we don't even know about. Don't forget Morrigan ran off somewhere. She also tells you in one of the dialogue choices to die or be overshadowed. Thus your overshadowing is your dead warden's return. So what is overshadowed? As far as I'm concerned it's a plot twist.

There will be NO STATUE..I guarantee it.  It is mentioned in the last scene...but thats IT...nothing further refers to the heroic sacrifice...ever..no information goes forward.

The Orlesian warden that takes over from you and starts recruiting, doesn't have a clue what you did..and far as I know from what was stated..."it wouldn't make sense if it wasn't you that did it".   In other words..you can't port the dead warden, get acknowledgement for the self-sacrifice and move on to play the Orlesian.

Instead you get some sort of "canon" beginning with the Orlesian..and again the Ultimate Sacrifice...doesn't exist and never did.

[Feraele]

MClover wrote...

HOW THE HELL IS THIS THREAD STILL GOING?!?

They made this an option for people who don't really give two sh**s about canon. If you don't like, then don't play your dead warden............................................

Why are you posting here?  If you don't like the discussion...don't be here..simple isn't it?

[Mawens]

Feraele wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

You've already been given your acknowledgement for your US by the King or Queen's speech over your dead body. The King or Queen isn't going to announce that your statue is going to be placed at the Vigil's Keep or in Denerim unless that's going to happen. BioWare wouldn't have gone to the time and trouble to make that announcement in the ending scence if it wasn't so. They didn't just dump your body down the chantry well.

Your decisions for your world of Fereldan and Denerim were already decided when you made your US and killed the Archdemon. Then the King or Queen announced their edict on how your decisions changed Fereldan and Denerim. Howe's family lost their lands and titles, if you played the HN then Highever was restored to the Couslands. The elves were given their own homeland and I haven't played the dwarf origins so I don't know how that is affected as of yet.

If you import your dead warden in then something might be coming that we're not aware of. I don't think they'd allow this unless this is a plot twist. Aren't expansions plot twists and a way to move a character into other areas of Thedas.

Personally, I'd think it'd be a hoot to be walking around my own statue for my honorable death, when I'm not actually dead. As far as I'm concerned someone did a blood ritual to bring me back. Did Wynne finally decide to die to give me that chance and Morrigan performed the ritual. Sounds like it is easily explained to me. As I've mentioned before the lore is in the game to make this so.

Morrigan and Flemeth know more than what they told about this ritual and there might have been another ritual that was done that we don't even know about. Don't forget Morrigan ran off somewhere. She also tells you in one of the dialogue choices to die or be overshadowed. Thus your overshadowing is your dead warden's return. So what is overshadowed? As far as I'm concerned it's a plot twist.

There will be NO STATUE..I guarantee it.  It is mentioned in the last scene...but thats IT...nothing further refers to the heroic sacrifice...ever..no information goes forward.

The Orlesian warden that takes over from you and starts recruiting, doesn't have a clue what you did..and far as I know from what was stated..."it wouldn't make sense if it wasn't you that did it".   In other words..you can't port the dead warden, get acknowledgement for the self-sacrifice and move on to play the Orlesian.

Instead you get some sort of "canon" beginning with the Orlesian..and again the Ultimate Sacrifice...doesn't exist and never did.

It is going to exist. Stop giving false information. If you don't know stop telling.
You are going top import your choices, as you know and if you chose the ultimate sacrifice your Orlisian Grey Warden is going to hear about it and everybody else.
If you chose to play your dead Grey Warden again in Awakening then it's like it never happened. That was at least what I understood from the live broadcast on xfire. You can see it yourself on xfire but maybe they are making a story.

[Feraele]

Fernando Melo wrote...

Can you import the world 'state', but start new in Awakening as the Orlesian Cmdr? No. The world 'state' only exists and lives on as part of your character's choices - most of the reactivity to events and choices in Origins would simply not make sense if it wasn't 'you' that did it.

------------------------END QUOTE-------------------------------------

Did you read this?? They also stated in the live chat...the very same thing, NO if you died your world state would not port over.

If you port your dead warden..he/she becomes alive again....that is the only way information about your character goes forward. Hence...no statue, no honourable burial at Weisshaupt.

Modifié par Feraele, 13 mars 2010 - 07:19 .

[Mawens]

Feraele wrote...

Fernando Melo wrote...

Can you import the world 'state', but start new in Awakening as the Orlesian Cmdr? No. The world 'state' only exists and lives on as part of your character's choices - most of the reactivity to events and choices in Origins would simply not make sense if it wasn't 'you' that did it.

------------------------END QUOTE-------------------------------------

Did you read this?? They also stated in the live chat...the very same thing, NO if you died your world state would not port over.

If you port your dead warden..he/she becomes alive again....that is the only way information about your character goes forward. Hence...no statue, no honourable burial at Weisshaupt.

It is been said that your dead Wardens choices and live is going to transfer to Awakening.
Maybe are we misunderstanding each other or are talking about different things.
But if you chose to play at "your dead" Grey Warden again in Awakening I don't know about what is going to happen. It is maybe what Fernando meant?? That your state from your ”dead” Grey Warden dosen’t exists in Awakening?

[Les Polar]

What about if everybody who has been on this thread for the last 27 days start each a new different one(89 brand new threads).....Because every little nic-nac issues have been addressed.......

[Feraele]

The dead warden choices etc will not port unless you port him or her....



If you make THAT choice your warden becomes mysteriously...NOT DEAD. Therefore the Ultimate Sacrifice didn't happen.



The other "choice" if you can call it that..is to leave your dead warden...dead. Period.



No information carries forward. Nothing.

[Feraele]

Les Polar wrote...

What about if everybody who has been on this thread for the last 27 days start each a new different one(89 brand new threads).....Because every little nic-nac issues have been addressed.......

Lets not and say we did...do we really want to give the moderators a huge headache like that?  I don't think so.

[Kaiser Shepard]

In any case, it would have been nice if we had known this earlier... not like I imagine it should've been that hard for BW to successfully implement the US ending into Awakening.



Also, as the game is apparently already available in some places and the achievements are already there, I started looking around the Xbox Live Marketplace on the Web. The result being that I found nothing, except the downloadlinks for several pre-order items such as a Dalish Promise Ring, but also a free Return to Ostagar. Free but sadly also undownloadble this way...

[Mawens]

Feraele wrote...

The dead warden choices etc will not port unless you port him or her....

If you make THAT choice your warden becomes mysteriously...NOT DEAD. Therefore the Ultimate Sacrifice didn't happen.

The other "choice" if you can call it that..is to leave your dead warden...dead. Period.

No information carries forward. Nothing.

That's right. If you choice the Oralsian warden and your Warden is dead your state, choices and so on is going to play a role in Awakening.

If you are making the Ultimate Sacrifice and choice to play with that character it will as you say don't happen.

[OldMan91]

Only one explanation for having a Warden come back from the dead.

"I got better"

Modifié par OldMan91, 13 mars 2010 - 09:58 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Mawens wrote...

Feraele wrote...

The dead warden choices etc will not port unless you port him or her....

If you make THAT choice your warden becomes mysteriously...NOT DEAD. Therefore the Ultimate Sacrifice didn't happen.

The other "choice" if you can call it that..is to leave your dead warden...dead. Period.

No information carries forward. Nothing.

That's right. If you choice the Oralsian warden and your Warden is dead your state, choices and so on is going to play a role in Awakening.

If you are making the Ultimate Sacrifice and choice to play with that character it will as you say don't happen.

Que?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Yeah you have to import a character for the choices to happen. But if you import a US character they appear alive. No other information I have seen states otherwise. If you start an Orlesian Warden it assumes (most likely, hopefully) that the PC died BUT it is a stock story it doesn't import from a save. So your choices in the US only have an effect if you import but if you import you only have the option as PLAYING as the warden who should be dead.

[shellys639]

i hope theyll explain more in the full version da2.such as morrigan may have been with child or maybe the archdemon is in connor and the ritual didnt work.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Feraele wrote...

Fernando Melo wrote...

Can you import the world 'state', but start new in Awakening as the Orlesian Cmdr? No. The world 'state' only exists and lives on as part of your character's choices - most of the reactivity to events and choices in Origins would simply not make sense if it wasn't 'you' that did it.

------------------------END QUOTE-------------------------------------

Did you read this?? They also stated in the live chat...the very same thing, NO if you died your world state would not port over.

If you port your dead warden..he/she becomes alive again....that is the only way information about your character goes forward. Hence...no statue, no honourable burial at Weisshaupt.

They are addressing the fact if you choose to play the Orleasian Warden and not your dead one. Your confusing the issues over the Orleasian Warden vs the Dead Warden. If you play as the Orleasian Warden, the world state wouldn't make sense to import. Why would you want to? You also can't guarantee not getting your statue when it's already been given if you're an original title holder. This is right down funny.
I disagree, your deeds are already known with your death and with the King or King/Queens coronations or just the Queens and their declarations to get Fereldan and Denerim back on their feet. They already awarded you your statue and your body is taken to Weisshaput, you have already been honored. There isn't anything to suggest your statue has been taken away. In some of the videos you do see a statue. The World of Thedas and everyone in it already knows what you did for all of them. They don't have to repeat this for the opening of Awakening because it's already been awarded to you as an original title holder. Awakenings is a stand alone game. Therefore a default had to be created for the new Orleisan Warden. BioWare just gave DA:O owners the option to import previous created characters. If you don't own DA:O then the Orleisan Warden starts off new for the new game owner if they don't have the original. BioWare didn't shun the owners of the original title and they could have done that and cut the original owners stories off at the knees right there and they didn't do that. They included something for everyone. They buildt Awakening to support both original and new title holders. This is what people aren't getting. With Oghren being in the game and as an original party member he is going to know what took place because he was in your party if you allowed him to be and fought in the Denerim battle. Oghren will know your Grey Warden story if your alive or dead.
Personally, I wouldn't buy an expansion without owning the original title, to me this doesn't make sense. If I owned or was president of a video game company I wouldn't make an expansion as a stand alone game either. Personally, I think that is a bad product development choice. If I've worked to produce two games and there is an original I'd want people to buy both products and in this case an rpg game whose storyline moves forward with the expansion, but still stays true to with the original storyline, the story is just moving forward with the expansion. I think they'd have alot more happy customers making this type of decision. Then wait on a new title release for better builds as technology gets better in the industry. I would keep all builds, expansions and dlc on the original build. Then have the new titles waiting in the wings with better builds and start getting the current title ready for bed.

[james1976]

I think it's rather weird to have a dead warden running around as well.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

OldMan91 wrote...

Only one explanation for having a Warden come back from the dead.

"I got better"

Good to hear, lol!