1118 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Onyx Jaguar, I don't follow that. Are you saying DA isn't an RPG?

[Onyx Jaguar]

AlanC9 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar, I don't follow that. Are you saying DA isn't an RPG?

No what I am saying is that the Ultimate Sacrifice is a legitimate ending, in essence the story should continue regardless if the character you played as died in in Dragon Age.  

I assume what they meant by RP standard was that in essence you build a character and would protect it in a sense which I do not think it applies in this case because, this is a story based video game.  

[Mystiana]

Sure the US is a legitimate ending and the story should continue on, but that's not the point...the point is that there's no mention anywhere that your warden even existed let alone saved the world with his US.  At the end of DA:O they mention a statue erected, but then where is it?  They could have easilly replaced the well in the courtyard with the statue for those who chose the US ending, but they didn't.  Oghren could have mentioned something about it in his dialogue but never did.  The King / Queen never even mention the saving of their land due to this heroic warden's sacrifice.  These are very simple things they could have added to DA:A, yet they didn't.  That's the problem.

We chose the path for our wardens, we accept their US with open arms but what we find hard to accept is that it was basically all for nothing.

[Diamonddrago]

well its disappointing yes....but nothing so ground-breaking wrong about it.....



its a game people....games don't need to make sense all the time.....you play it to have a good time...not analyze all angles and loop holes.....

[Elhanan]

I like the option myself.



I chose not to use it for my US Warden, as he was my first hero. If one prefers to be dead, they can so choose. If they wish to be partially dead, then that option is also available.

[Haexpane]

The best part about expansions is EXPANDING. IMO that means more levels, more enemies, more loot, more skills etc...



Playing w/ my "dead warden" allows me to get Mo' Money fo' mai monies!

[soteria]

Huh, when I saw the thread title a long time ago, I ignored it because I thought the complaint seemed silly. After reading Maria's argument, though, I have to agree with her. It really is BS that none of your choices matter, and the ironic thing is it's one of the few differences in ending that *should* have mattered.



Honestly, the only difference that's reflected in Awakening is whether Anora or Alistair is on the throne, right? So basically, the only choice that has continuity is who strikes the killing blow. For the Ultimate Sacrifice, either Alistair or Anora could have been king, and there's supposed to be a statue right there and stuff. You could have been male or female or any race. Instead, if you play the Orlesian warden, the game just makes a bunch of assumptions about your choices and generally pretends like that playthrough never happened.

[ObserverStatus]

[Haexpane]

soteria wrote...

 

Honestly, the only difference that's reflected in Awakening is whether Anora or Alistair is on the throne, right? So basically, the only choice that has continuity is who strikes the killing blow. For the Ultimate Sacrifice, either Alistair or Anora could have been king, and there's supposed to be a statue right there and stuff. You could have been male or female or any race. Instead, if you play the Orlesian warden, the game just makes a bunch of assumptions about your choices and generally pretends like that playthrough never happened.

All of which Bioware SAID would happen if you chose to play as a Dead Warden.

Playing as a dead warden = THROWING AWAY THE CHOICES in the first place, so complaining about previous choices when you already made the choice to throw them away...

THAT is the BS - The complaining

[soteria]

You do realize that playing as the dead warden effectively resurrects the dead warden, right?



Your problem is that you're fixated on the idea of carrying the character over into the expansion rather than the effects of that character's choices, which is what should happen from importing a dead warden. Leave them dead and start you up as an Orlesian warden with the choices from Origins intact. The game doesn't do that, making it impossible have any continuity for an "ultimate sacrifice" storyline. If you can't understand the difference between continuing a storyline and continuing a character, I'm sorry.



I think your complaining about the complaining is BS.

[yummysoap]

Haexpane wrote...

soteria wrote...

 

Honestly, the only difference that's reflected in Awakening is whether Anora or Alistair is on the throne, right? So basically, the only choice that has continuity is who strikes the killing blow. For the Ultimate Sacrifice, either Alistair or Anora could have been king, and there's supposed to be a statue right there and stuff. You could have been male or female or any race. Instead, if you play the Orlesian warden, the game just makes a bunch of assumptions about your choices and generally pretends like that playthrough never happened.

All of which Bioware SAID would happen if you chose to play as a Dead Warden.

Playing as a dead warden = THROWING AWAY THE CHOICES in the first place, so complaining about previous choices when you already made the choice to throw them away...

THAT is the BS - The complaining

The BS isn't that you can import a dead Warden, it's that you can't import a dead warden's choices and have them reflect in the game while you titter about with an Orlesian. So much for the Hero of Ferelden's massive statue and legacy - the game acts as though he never existed.

It's not the fact that you can necromance a Warden and everyone acts as though there's nothing strange about it that annoys people, it's the fact that every decision a person makes is obsolete if he chooses to actually take the Ultimate Sacrifice seriously and continue the story on with an Orlesian warden.

[Graspiloot]

To be Honest none of the choices you made, made any differences except some mentions here and there and if Alistair and Anora showed up for those few lines. To be honest what I found most annoying is when you, as a mage, have Alistair give the mages their independence from the chantry, you still get the Wynne quest where she says that the libertarians want to pull away.

[Ryamundo]

Just picked up awakening, went to import my origins STORY, and suddenly found myself looking at my dead character walking through the forest in a delightful in game cut scene. So I'm pretty much completely shocked, and incredibly disappointed.



As soon as that cut scene ended I alt-tabbed out, brought up google, and searched for some kind of explanation, because I couldn't understand how bioware could have let me down so completely. So far I've read some articles, checked out some forum posts, and watched an interview, and I still don't understand.



To be fair, I can understand the decision to allow players to bring back a sacrificed character, It's incredibly inelegant, but it is a solution to a problem bioware created for themselves with the ultimate sacrifice ending. What I simply cannot understand is why I don't have the OPTION of continuing the story a sacrificed character created with a new character. That's all I wanted, and that's all I expected, but I guess I was expecting too much.

[slikster]

Since this thread was necroed and I didn't get in on it the first time around, I'd like to add my voice to the choir of malcontent.

[Elhanan]

If you wanted to be dead, then stay dead. Create a new Warden, or import another one that was alive, then you may have your storyline continued with those choices.

But if one makes an Orleasian Warden, you then get a storyline much like Darkspawn Chronicles; a default Bioware storyline. After all, one should not expect to have the default story choices to be that of the US, as there are many ways for the initial story could have ended. Or not. Maybe someone wishes to start Awakenings as a fresh bedtime story; not as a continuation of anything.

[barges26]

Dethanos wrote...

If you don't like it, don't do it. Why complain about something that is optional?

[Darth Drago]

Maria Caliban wrote...

How utterly stupid.

I recall during the development when one of the writers said they wanted a setting where death had meaning. So much for that. Apparently ‘ultimate sacrifice’ is more like ‘temporary inconvenience.’

Honestly, I’d have thought that ME 2 showed how little BioWare cares about choices and consequences, but this is a new low.

Fernando Melo wrote...

Can you import the world 'state', but start new in Awakening as the Orlesian Cmdr?  No.  The world 'state' only exists and lives on as part of your character's choices - most of the reactivity to events and choices in Origins would simply not make sense if it wasn't 'you' that did it.

Okay, so imagine a player puts Anora on the throne, kills Loghain, and then perform the Ultimate Sacrifice. The ideal situation would be for Awakening to acknowledge what their Warden did, but for the Warden to still be dead.

As is, this cannot be the case. If I import the Ultimate Sacrifice, I play as my dead character. If I don't import the Ultimate Sacrifice, Awakening doesn't acknowledge what my character did. It reverts to whatever 'default' the developers have created. Maybe the Dark Ritual was performed, maybe Alistair is king, maybe the Circle is Annuled when I saved it.

My first play through in Awakenings was with my favorite Warden that I had finished Origins with (out of the two at that point), she of course died killing the archdemon. I mainly imported her to see if it could be done which to my surprise it could be with no explanations. That just seemed wrong and maybe due to an oversight by the Awakenings developers I hope.

If you create a new warden for Awakenings (something I haven’t done yet) you should have something at least acknowledging what happened in Origins to your Warden and Alistair at least regardless if your Warden died. If there really isn’t anything then it just seems a waste to me. Who died killing the archdemon? Did Al take the throne? What about Loghain’s fate?

We have seen some insights to what may have happened without your Warden when playing Darkspawn Chronicles so it really surprises me that they didn’t think of this for Awakenings in regards to what happened in Origins using a newly created Warden.

What the developers should have done is think ahead and have a importer/exporter system similar to Mass Effect 1 and 2. If your Warden died in Origins then you obviously cant play him/her. All your big decisions that would be mentioned in Awakenings either as background small talk between characters or interactions would be imported from your dead Wardens save file. Oghren could have filled in a lot of these details through dialog.

[Elhanan]

Techless One again....

After thinking on this thread, I was wondering if a mod could be made that would import the dead Warden and save all the decisions to a set of files, then kill the warden again while placing the saved files in a default Orlesian Warden file to be imported into Awakenings; sort of a bridge mod for those that want their prior actions displayed.

As for me and the US, I chose to stay dead, and imported my living wardens.

[Rvlion]

Elhanan wrote...

Techless One again....
After thinking on this thread, I was wondering if a mod could be made that would import the dead Warden and save all the decisions to a set of files, then kill the warden again while placing the saved files in a default Orlesian Warden file to be imported into Awakenings; sort of a bridge mod for those that want their prior actions displayed.

This should have been done while creating the expansion and added to the game that you at the very minimal get the choice "This warden is dead, are you certain you wish to import this character? Or do you wish to create an Orlesian Warden while choices made during this import remain?" and let the choices be "Import", "Orlesian Warden" or "Cancel".

While personally I don't care about walking around with a so-called dead guy/girl since I always twist my mind in thinking that the old timers were wrong about the dying part considering it had been 400 years between the 4th and 5th blight. Also not to mention that often I import characters from games which have not even killed the Archdemon yet so I let the game decide what end happened and considering I always have Allistair meet me as king I guess it was the Morrigan's ending (unless there is a secret ending were the Arch demon chokes on a dwarf bone and drops dead ).

[Kildaire]

Unto Elhanan, I am of the same mind.



I chose to resurrect however , under the auspice; that of the many time I did have relations with Morrigan she might have conceived without my knowing anyway.

It makes a nice segue into the Witch Hunt DLC and why I'm alive to hunt her in the first place.



It's a game afterall. And with all due respect, this is Bioware, I think they might have addressed this very concern if they weren't rushed to put out DLC for us in the first place. The Money Machine needs to roll on, and story sometimes suffers for it.

[Esbatty]

Whats with all the having and eating cake of complaints?

[ladydesire]

Rvlion wrote...

This should have been done while creating the expansion and added to the game that you at the very minimal get the choice "This warden is dead, are you certain you wish to import this character? Or do you wish to create an Orlesian Warden while choices made during this import remain?" and let the choices be "Import", "Orlesian Warden" or "Cancel".

I believe the reason we didn't get this option is that Bioware couldn't make it work in the time they were given to produce the expansion; this is exactly the sort of thing that is going to be in place with the save-game import for DA2.

[NKKKK]

I have a US savegame, I tried to do awakenings...but i didn't feel right.

[RaptorSigh]

Lame. That break in continuity is like reading a book, then reading the sequel where the critical events/characters of the first book are completely different or not even mentioned. Does that sound like a good series to you? If that's not how you treat your RPGs, fine, but some of us do.

I'm glad I looked this up before buying. No DLC for me.

Modifié par RaptorSigh, 08 octobre 2010 - 10:37 .

[Urazz]

Fulgrim88 wrote...

So i take it's either
- Sacrificed someone else: Import your character
- Sacrificed yourself: start with some Orlesian guy (and a random canon backstory? NO Import?)
- Sacrificed yourself but want to import your decisions: The Lazarus glitch again?

Option 3 isn't a glitch.  It changes your ultimate sacrifice choice into you accepting the dark ritual choice.

I do agree it is a shame you couldn't import all the choices you made in Origins and then play an Orlesian Warden so there is a sense of continuity after your Origins' Warden dies.

Personally, I think the reason why this wasn't done was because time was an issue.

Modifié par Urazz, 09 octobre 2010 - 12:45 .