1118 réponses à ce sujet

[Rylor Tormtor]

Monica21 wrote...

Azure Zero wrote...
The dark ritual could come into play other ways. Who is to say that was the only ritual for collecting the Archdemon soul Morrigan knew. She could have left bangeda random soldier and performed a secondary ritual witha dreamcatcher for all we know if that is how they want to go with it.

Because Morrigan went to a lot of trouble to get the old god baby. If there were an easier way, she'd have left the party before Lothering. Not to mention that it wasn't Morrigan's knowledge because Flemeth was the one who told her.

And you can't just make up stuff like "maybe there's another way" because you don't like the way it is.

Then why were we given the choice? Morrigan is a tricky ****, so there are any number of ways she could have done it. As I said before, seduced/charmed one of the other wardens so she could steal a shard of the old god's power, or find a way to channel the power from the warden's dead body.

It is not that I don't like, but ret-con like this is lazy, and in fact, insulting. In general, I would just shut up and deal, but when one shouts about how much choice and player action makes a difference (coughME@cough), then they should make it that way.

[Feraele]

Aslend wrote...

I will simply "create" it if I do not find it, thus stated, if Bioware chooses a different path than one I would like, well all righty then, I got a toolset, I will make it so, "Engage"! So lets just make it then? Who's with me! Rar!~

Well post it up and I'll download it for sure.

[Vicious]

I was very pissed at first but now I am starting to think that it is going to matter a LOT less than people thing.



If you import a ritual character, you have one intro that references everything you did and you see some old faces. People are appeased.



If you import an Orlesian Warden you get a completely different intro among brand new characters that only references that the blight was ended, leaving you to imagine how it ended however you played your game. You are then launched into the game.



This is the best way, IMO.



If you are an import you get some dialogue here and there about how you ended the blight.



if you are new then everyone insults your french accent instead.

[Azure Zero]

Monica21 wrote...

Azure Zero wrote...
The dark ritual could come into play other ways. Who is to say that was the only ritual for collecting the Archdemon soul Morrigan knew. She could have left bangeda random soldier and performed a secondary ritual witha dreamcatcher for all we know if that is how they want to go with it.

Because Morrigan went to a lot of trouble to get the old god baby. If there were an easier way, she'd have left the party before Lothering. Not to mention that it wasn't Morrigan's knowledge because Flemeth was the one who told her.

And you can't just make up stuff like "maybe there's another way" because you don't like the way it is.

Sure I can. Bioware is doing it for people who don't like the idea of their warden being dead from the US ending.

[Cancermeat]

So if you pick the Orlesian Warden origin u have no say on what happened in the main story line? I was only agreeing to the part about using your main story character.

[MuseMajora]

I would have liked it if they had done a similar thing to Dragon ball Z. Essentially Goku, the protagonist, is killed from some final battle or something. In the next season when a new threat is at stake, he is 'temporarily' resurrected until this new threat is stopped, then he goes back to Heaven.

Modifié par MuseMajora, 14 février 2010 - 07:09 .

[Cancermeat]

i kinda like the idea dead is dead.

[Monica21]

Rylor Tormtor wrote...
Then why were we given the choice? Morrigan is a tricky ****, so there are any number of ways she could have done it. As I said before, seduced/charmed one of the other wardens so she could steal a shard of the old god's power, or find a way to channel the power from the warden's dead body.

It is not that I don't like, but ret-con like this is lazy, and in fact, insulting. In general, I would just shut up and deal, but when one shouts about how much choice and player action makes a difference (coughME@cough), then they should make it that way.

There's a choice because a lot of people won't buy Awakenings, and the people who do probably won't remember or notice. The majority of players don't post or read forums, so they don't care.

And still, making up your own ending is far lazier than than what you're claiming the writers are doing.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Cancermeat wrote...

So if you pick the Orlesian Warden origin u have no say on what happened in the main story line? I was only agreeing to the part about using your main story character.

All signs point to this. I have no problem in the end with people reviving their dead character, fine, its their game, who am I to say how they should play it.

But, if your guy did US, and you start a new game, then it completes ignore everything you did in the previous game. Apparently. I could be wrong, I hope I am wrong.

There's a choice because a lot of people won't buy Awakenings, and the
people who do probably won't remember or notice. The majority of
players don't post or read forums, so they don't care.

And still, making up your own ending is far lazier than than what you're claiming the writers are doing.

Once again, ya, I understand economic necessity, but appealing to the lowest common denominator a good game does not make. A profitable one maybe, but not a good one. Bioware had been able to do both in the past.

Modifié par Rylor Tormtor, 14 février 2010 - 07:13 .

[Azure Zero]

Cancermeat wrote...

So if you pick the Orlesian Warden origin u have no say on what happened in the main story line? I was only agreeing to the part about using your main story character.

From the info we have that is how it seems, unless upon creating the orlesian  warden you get an option to import choices from a US ending.

[Monica21]

Azure Zero wrote...
Sure I can. Bioware is doing it for people who don't like the idea of their warden being dead from the US ending.

You know what the difference is? It's BioWare's IP so they get to do whatever they want.

[Cancermeat]

Whatever Bioware decides is for the best, if they ever start making bad games i'll start pointing the finger.

[Azure Zero]

Monica21 wrote...

Azure Zero wrote...
Sure I can. Bioware is doing it for people who don't like the idea of their warden being dead from the US ending.

You know what the difference is? It's BioWare's IP so they get to do whatever they want.

That is a nice irrelevant arguement to the point I was making. Just because you claim the ritual is the canon ending you refuse to see any other possible way it could have happened, who other than a writer is to say they don't have little other ways they can pull it off as the simple example I showed? In a game/story based on user choices it would foolish to not have various outcomes planned and some logical work arounds if you did want a single ultimate ending later down the road.

[dunachar]

Simple as this..........If you made the ultimate sacrifice and died...........don't import.......from a roleplaying/story standpoint, that character is dead. Start the game with the new Orlesian Warden.

[NKKKK]

Monica21 wrote...

Azure Zero wrote...
Sure I can. Bioware is doing it for people who don't like the idea of their warden being dead from the US ending.

You know what the difference is? It's BioWare's IP so they get to do whatever they want.

Oh look it's a non-questioning fan.

[BeautyoftheBeast]

 Ok- for argument's sake, what if when you started playing as the Orlesian Grey Warden, conversation options popped up with some character (or whatever) that related to what happened in Origins. Options such as saying that such and such Grey Warden sacrificed him/herself, Alistair became king, etc etc. 

Then, it would explain why the dead warden wouldn't be imported into Awakenings- you're answering for what happened in Origins without importing zombie Warden in and making it hard to somehow manipulate the engine in importing those decisions.

Or maybe I'm just over-analyzing it, but I can see that as a feasible option as to why the devs didn't import the old warden, but rather shoot off conversation options and decisions based on what you say happened previously in Origins, or whatever.

Then, importing your old warden is agreeing that you did the DR. Bada bing, bada boom- everything is covered logically in gameplay. If you don't want it to be assumed you did the DR, make a new character and set up what happened with conversation options. If you did do the DR, import the character and continue as is.

Modifié par BeautyoftheBeast, 14 février 2010 - 07:19 .

[NKKKK]

BeautyoftheBeast wrote...

 Ok- for argument's sake, what if when you started playing as the Orlesian Grey Warden, conversation options popped up with some character (or whatever) that related to what happened in Origins. Options such as saying that such and such Grey Warden sacrificed him/herself, Alistair became king, etc etc. 

Then, it would explain why the dead warden wouldn't be imported into Awakenings- you're answering for what happened in Origins without importing zombie Warden in and making it hard to somehow manipulate the engine in importing those decisions.

Or maybe I'm just over-analyzing it, but I can see that as a feasible option as to why the devs didn't import the old warden, but rather shoot off conversation options and decisions based on what you say happened previously in Origins, or whatever.

That would appease me...slightly.

[Rylor Tormtor]

dunachar wrote...

Simple as this..........If you made the ultimate sacrifice and died...........don't import.......from a roleplaying/story standpoint, that character is dead. Start the game with the new Orlesian Warden.

I want this. This is great. However, I want the choices my character made, who is dead, to have an effect on the world my new charater, the Orlesian Warden, lives in.

[Feraele]

Cancermeat wrote...

i kinda like the idea dead is dead.

Indeed..dead is dead.

Ashes to ashes ..dust to dust.   No walking dead.

[Monica21]

Azure Zero wrote...
That is a nice irrelevant arguement to the point I was making. Just because you claim the ritual is the canon ending you refuse to see any other possible way it could have happened, who other than a writer is to say they don't have little other ways they can pull it off as the simple example I showed? In a game/story based on user choices it would foolish to not have various outcomes planned and some logical work arounds if you did want a single ultimate ending later down the road.

I'm not claiming it, BioWare is. I could pull something out of a hat too, but then I'd be writing fanfic. There could be a lot more to the ritual and the Wardens involvement planned than we know about. To write it off as "BioWare doesn't care about our choices" is short-sighted at best, especially when we know so little about Awakenings.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Monica21 wrote...

Azure Zero wrote...
That is a nice irrelevant arguement to the point I was making. Just because you claim the ritual is the canon ending you refuse to see any other possible way it could have happened, who other than a writer is to say they don't have little other ways they can pull it off as the simple example I showed? In a game/story based on user choices it would foolish to not have various outcomes planned and some logical work arounds if you did want a single ultimate ending later down the road.

I'm not claiming it, BioWare is. I could pull something out of a hat too, but then I'd be writing fanfic. There could be a lot more to the ritual and the Wardens involvement planned than we know about. To write it off as "BioWare doesn't care about our choices" is short-sighted at best, especially when we know so little about Awakenings.

Usually, I would agree, BUT, when they put up a FAQ that seems to specifically ignore the option to import choices for a US into a new Orlesian warden game, it is hard to maintain a positive attitude.

[Ryzaki]

Monica21 wrote...

Azure Zero wrote...
That is a nice irrelevant arguement to the point I was making. Just because you claim the ritual is the canon ending you refuse to see any other possible way it could have happened, who other than a writer is to say they don't have little other ways they can pull it off as the simple example I showed? In a game/story based on user choices it would foolish to not have various outcomes planned and some logical work arounds if you did want a single ultimate ending later down the road.

I'm not claiming it, BioWare is. I could pull something out of a hat too, but then I'd be writing fanfic. There could be a lot more to the ritual and the Wardens involvement planned than we know about. To write it off as "BioWare doesn't care about our choices" is short-sighted at best, especially when we know so little about Awakenings.

Ugh. One doesn't have to do the ritual to survive the ending though.

I really really hope my ending isn't getting ignored because frankly in my view its my 100% perfect ending for my PC and I don't want that retconned because Morrigan is so *awesome!* that she has to get what she wants.

Ugh.

Also: US ending is one of the better endings in the game to me. So making the Dark Ritual canon no matter what you did would p*** me off. <_<

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 février 2010 - 07:27 .

[Feraele]

BeautyoftheBeast wrote...

 Ok- for argument's sake, what if when you started playing as the Orlesian Grey Warden, conversation options popped up with some character (or whatever) that related to what happened in Origins. Options such as saying that such and such Grey Warden sacrificed him/herself, Alistair became king, etc etc. 

Then, it would explain why the dead warden wouldn't be imported into Awakenings- you're answering for what happened in Origins without importing zombie Warden in and making it hard to somehow manipulate the engine in importing those decisions.

Or maybe I'm just over-analyzing it, but I can see that as a feasible option as to why the devs didn't import the old warden, but rather shoot off conversation options and decisions based on what you say happened previously in Origins, or whatever.

Then, importing your old warden is agreeing that you did the DR. Bada bing, bada boom- everything is covered logically in gameplay. If you don't want it to be assumed you did the DR, make a new character and set up what happened with conversation options. If you did do the DR, import the character and continue as is.

This is what I am saying..you can import your dead GW,  have the choice to start the new Orlesian GW, and the story continues from that new GW..with a couple brief historial references about the Ultimate Sacrifice of the former GW.   

That is ONE story line.   So let the dark ritual one be canon I don't care...I just want proper closure in the writing..to what happened with the one that died to save Ferelden.

Otherwise the whole Ultimate Sacrifice story line..is useless and a huge waste of time..considering it takes me ..even after 12 play throughs at least 80 hours to complete.

Or get rid of it altogether since it means less than nothing in the overall picture.