140 réponses à ce sujet

[Dizzy473]

Hmm, I can see why some may describe them as "forced" missions but then is that a bad thing? For me it lent a sense of urgency and pace to the story that ME1 was missing.



Ideally I suppose you could ignore those missions when they popped up and have to face some kind of consequence. An existing example, not going through the relay after your crew is abducted straightaway = dead crew, go straight away = crew survives.



Though too many "your choice" missions like that and the branches of the story start to get out of control, it would probably make all the story details for ME3 a nightmare to put together as well.



Anyway, back to the point. I didn't mind them in the slightest, you could look at every story mission as being forced if you think about it.

[tonnactus]

Dizzy473 wrote...

Hmm, I can see why some may describe them as "forced" missions but then is that a bad thing? For me it lent a sense of urgency and pace to the story that ME1 was missing.

If you want urgency in Mass Effect 1,you could just do only the main missions.Problem solved.You could play the first game like you want.Your choice.Not the same in the second game where shepardt is just one dumb puppet,who
is send in one trap after another.
Also,the loyality missions are a contradiction to the urgency.

[D4rk50ul808]

I think its appropriate pacing for the game, something that the first one lacked. It is triggered after a certain amount of recruitment missions. There is at least one upgrade per mission, resources, and money. It keeps your character's power level in line with the mission difficulty. Could you imagine how easy Horizon would be if you had all the upgrades at max? By the time I got to Legions loyalty mission the Scions and Husks were a joke on insanity, yet the fight on Horizon was a challenge at the time. I'm sure the same would be true of the derelict ship.

[shaneho78]

tonnactus wrote...


You are the one that should make the choices.
In Mass Effect 1 no one forced Shepardt to help the colonists on Feros as the first mission.

So if you want to ditch Cerberus and join the alliance, the game should allow you to do it as well?

[Allattar1]

No the forced missions as you put them where perfect. The Loyalty missions worked as you where preparing for the Omega 4 relay. What may have been nice here is that the longer you take more reports of colonies being attacked comes in.



Perhaps for people who don't like there hand being forced you could have an option no I am not ready I wont go. Then you could lose a colony, and even Kaiden/Ashley.



Your also left waiting for another colony hit to respond. Little marker on the side about how many Human colonies are left in the terminus systems. Or perhaps even just a you missed the opportunity you don't get that information.



I liked the aspect that it said here you go, its happening now, you don't have time to wander round picking at your navel fluff for the next two weeks and the invasion is still happening. Go now, or dont go at all maybe should have been an option. However Shepard is working to protect humanity, and as much as you want to roleplay it, or not, that would be totally out of character for Shepard to say, stuff the colony I am going to find a nice beach somewhere.



short answer: I liked it, you dont have to. I hope ME3 gives us more of this, not all the time but more urgent go now or dont go at all events. Live with it

[Madecologist]

tonnactus wrote...

Jake71887 wrote...

TIM: Shepard, we've just gotten info that the collectors are attacking a human colony...
Shepard: Oh yeah? Well, I've almost got enough resources to improve the normandy's guns, just let me grab that quick.
TIM: But...
Shepard: *Disconnect*

6 days later

Shepard: Ok, got em installed, time to save some colonists!
TIM: They're all gone you douchebag. 

This is a roleplaying game.
You are the one that should make the choices.
In Mass Effect 1 no one forced Shepardt to help the colonists on Feros as the first mission.


And that with the guns is a funny example that could used also against the forced mission.
Illusive man:Colony xy is attacked
Shepardt:Our armor is ****ty,our guns are nerfed.
Illusive man:Dont matter,hurry.

Normandy reaches the colony.Collector general activated that weapons of his ship.

Boom.  Cerberus has to rebuild shepardt and the normandy again.

For someone who talks about a "Roleplaying game" you have little grasp of one. I actually run table top games, you know.. the very essense of RP. Where players actually play characters with fully mapped inifinately possible dialogue options with a game world that reacts to every decision. Only the graphics and sound effects are a little limited and the processor to run this happens to be stuck in my body.

When I say a Red Dragon shows and is attacking a city, you can been your sweet bum they will charge to save the city. The dragon will not politely wait for the players to go and shop for new weapons and armours. IE Forced Mission. Well they don't have to I guess... is the point you are making. There you are right. But guess what... they fail. The town is lost and the ramification of it will have to sit on you. In ME2, you loose the Collector lead and they win. Shepard looses. Game over. That simple.

How do you even intend a game to be programed with that much liberty they can't program alternative timeline because Shepard chose to not go to Horizan, and do not even dare to say ME1 was not. The first segment of the game was linear. Vimire will always unlock after 2 planets. After finishing the 4 hubs, you unlock Illos which creates a linear game again. ME2 just has mini checkpoints that show up, in a story that makes sense that they do ask you to speed it up and do it right away. IE Red Dragon attacks city. While IFF is sort of a soft Illos, you can still move about but have consequences.. oh my! like not stoping the red dragon right away.

If you are looking for the free form and unrestrictive gameplay element of a true RPG, then put the controller down and find a DnD, WOD, Shadowrun, you name it gaming troupe and join up. It is very fun. However I will warn you, there is consequences for all your actions and you will have to live up to the bad ones. The local GM is far more responsive and far more capable to bring wide spread consequences for an action you do, anyone one you may do. Or are you gonna complain when you get captured and tied up that the GM is blocking your RP because he is not letting you get up and walk out of the room despite you are captured and tied up. He is forcing a mission on you!

Modifié par Madecologist, 19 février 2010 - 12:01 .

[Keltoris]

Forced Missions convet urgency.



The IFF being tested pisses the player off.

[Jebel Krong]

Lightice_av wrote...

Not at all stupid. In fact, they're extremely believable and add a sense of urgency to your mission. You don't just twiddle your thumbs and do sidequests when a colony is being attacked; you jump right into action. I hate that kind of nonsense in RPGs - for example in Dragon Age the Blight just stops for your sake with no discernible reason. I'm glad that in Mass Effect urgent events require urgent actions.

this. they help with maintaining the sense of story progression, narrative cohesion etc, so you can't just run around "collecting resources" and upgrading/whatever - you actually have to get on and further the story at some points. i though they were very well-done.

[tonnactus]

shaneho78 wrote...

tonnactus wrote...


You are the one that should make the choices.
In Mass Effect 1 no one forced Shepardt to help the colonists on Feros as the first mission.

So if you want to ditch Cerberus and join the alliance, the game should allow you to do it as well?

I want what worked in the first game.
Also people forget that the collectors dont start to attack colonies after shepardt woke up.They start with it earlier and did it for 2 years at least.

Modifié par tonnactus, 19 février 2010 - 01:11 .

[Allattar1]

So Tonn, you should be able to decline going to that colony, let that one burn and wait for the next one to be attacked?

[Kusy]

Forced missions? Well pretty much everything is forced in a game since you don't have free will there (even it it's well simulated). I think it was a bad idea to instantly send players somewhere without them wanting it... but it was well explained by the storry, otherwise than that I don't see a problem.

[Admoniter]

tonnactus wrote...
I want what worked in the first game.

Sure it worked but the pace wonky as all get out. I'm in a race against time to find Saren before he goes about and executes his evil plan, and on top of that I have to figure out what his plan is. Yet despite this urgency I still have the time to go grab the milk, eggs and bread for the Alliance on my way past the intergalactic grocery store.

Compared to ME1, ME2s pacing is much better, and it fits. The Collectors aren't content to just sit around waiting for you to enter the system before they go to work. They've got a human smoothie to make and time waits for no man. It makes sense to be forced, before this no one has seen the Collectors collecting, but a colony in the Terminus that suddenly drops out of contact. And from what we have gathered this fits the bill for what happens before the Collectors abduct the colony. If you hesitate the Collectors get another Colony under their belt and disappear beyond the Omega 4 relay. I'd say given what's at stake it's worth the risk to check out.

The Collector ship mission also makes sense, as far as you know the ship is dead in space. This opportunity is once in a lifetime, Given what we know at the time, I would be willing to wager that a similar situation would never happen again, and as such is worth the risk.

Modifié par Admoniter, 19 février 2010 - 01:28 .

[tonnactus]

Allattar1 wrote...

So Tonn, you should be able to decline going to that colony, let that one burn and wait for the next one to be attacked?

Yes.That would be renegade,but you could play as one in this game...
Shepardt and his ship are there to rescue humanity.I dont want to risk that for some thousands colonists when try to save them unprepared,which means without turian cannons and better ship armor.

[SL22]

"Shepard, Horizon is being attacked! Get there quickly or the colonists will be gone by the time you get there!"

"Yeah can it wait? I have to sort out some daddy issues for Jacob."

[Madecologist]

tonnactus wrote...

I want what worked in the first game.
Also people forget that the collectors dont start to attack colonies after shepardt woke up.They start with it earlier and did it for 2 years at least.

The Horizon Lead is the only lead. Usually by the time a Colony is attacked and they arrive.. nothing is left. Horizan was a well laid trap set out by TIM to lure the Collectors there. If you don't take the chance when they strike.... you loose it. Then it ghost chase. Without first hand collector data EDI never learns about how to operate the Omega-4 relay. Why wouldn't Shepard want to save a colony? Roleplaying also means playing a role. Not playing whatever -you- want to do however you want to do. In tabletop gaming that is actually considered bad RP and even refered to many as metagaming. You are Commander Shepard, not Gilbert Tailbot.

Collector Ship is response to that, the Collectors know you are back, you even stopped a colony kidnappening. They only left with about half. So they create a trap for Shepard. TIM finds it, and tricks Shepard to go get it right away. Becuase you still need to get more information. If Shepard choose to fly away elsewhere the Collectors would have done something else. As this cat and mouse goes on, more humans are abducted. This was a chance to get onto the ship and get the data you need. Not later, now. Actually TIM chooses to not tell you that it is a trap. So you would think you had to go there right away. As far Shepard's concerned, they won't wait there for him. Why wouldn't Shepard try to get the data they need, especially if he has been mislead this is his only chance? Again, you are Commander Shepard, not Gilbert Tailbot.

Once these two events happen you finally get the data you need and a lead to were to get the last piece. Which you can do whenever you want (the freedom you so desire). But as soon as you get that item it has a trap. Starting a countdown to an event (again, beyond your control, the enemy has its own plans to stop you and won't politely wait for you to brush your teeth), that then leads to the final choice. To go now or not. Here is where the game is truely an RP game. You actually do have a choice here. With consequences.

The first game was not as free form as you claim it to be, and the second game is not as RP wrong as you claim it to be. Actually I will go as far and say ME1 was less of a RP game. Because taking your sweet time, pissing around, sniffing rocks when some BIG BAD was launching his own scheme to destroy the world and there was no flow of events or consequences for strolling about. Though saying less RP is a strong word, actually it wasn't. More accurately, makes the story feel less plausible. There is no realism to it. To use my DnD example, I give the players all the time in the world to get to the city to stop the red dragon, who patiently waits for the players to arrive. That is how ME1 felt like half the time.

I am not challenging your liking of ME1, or your right to do so. I am challenging the fact you use the term "stupid" to describe the ME2 layout. It is one thing to say I prefered ME1 and did not like this in ME2. Then claiming it is stupid and destroys RP. That, I will challenge. Not because I do not want to date someone they are automatically ugly. Or if I do not trust a person, they automatically become the devil.

[Madecologist]

tonnactus wrote...

Allattar1 wrote...

So Tonn, you should be able to decline going to that colony, let that one burn and wait for the next one to be attacked?

Yes.That would be renegade,but you could play as one in this game...
Shepardt and his ship are there to rescue humanity.I dont want to risk that for some thousands colonists when try to save them unprepared,which means without turian cannons and better ship armor.

This is the only time they had advanced warning. This is your -ONLY- chance to catch them in the act. Do you even pay attention to the story? For someone hung up on RPG, you seem to not do a good job at noticing the obvious elements of the story told.

Modifié par Madecologist, 19 février 2010 - 01:48 .

[Skilled Seeker]

I love you Madecologist.

[chenDawg]

Anyone else notice that the OP is only replying to the weak arguments?



Bad troll is bad.

[Allattar1]

Tonnactus. Paragon is the hero route. Renegade is the antihero route.



The hero or the Antihero both come to the rescue.

Ignoring the fate of a thousand colonists just so you can go mine some more rock to get bigger guns is neither hero nor antihero, its called being an ****.

[Allattar1]

chenDawg wrote...

Anyone else notice that the OP is only replying to the weak arguments?

Bad troll is bad.

Are you calling my arguments weak...

Impudent whippersnapper.

[chenDawg]

Haha ~ Apologies.. I only scanned through the first 3 pages.

[superimposed]

Forced missions? Okay.

Timing? Bunk.

They should trigger when you have all available companions, not while you're still building a squad, and the squad should develop as fast as the Original Mass Effect's squad did - gaining all but one on the Citadel really allowed you to develop early the sort of team you wanted.

It seemed absurd that I should raid a derelict reaper when I still had a tech expert I could pick up who would be an immense boon to the mission.

[Madecologist]

superimposed wrote...

It seemed absurd that I should raid a derelict reaper when I still had a tech expert I could pick up who would be an immense boon to the mission.

Derelict Reaper, oh the IFF mission. Yeah. You are right it is absurd that you should raid it without the right experts. That is why the GAME ACTUALLY LETS YOU DO OTHER MISSIONS FIRST TO YOUR HEART'S DESIRE, and Miranda even recommands that you do so. IFF mission is not forced nor is there a timer to go complete it. The trigger happens after you did mission. Once you built your team. But then if you build your team, all you do is tweedle your thumbs and chat up a Geth and help him do something before the story goes BAM in your face. But if you choose to go to the Reaper ship unprepared, then you pay the price (that of your crew or being underprepared). But since you are arguing about being prepared... that you are most certainly can be, since you are allowed.

Is it me... or these people are playing a different game....

[SkywardDescent]

If they didn't force you into the them, then the whole collector plotline would be weaker, and it would seem the MAIN plot of the game was just getting your team.

While making your crew is a huge part of the game, its no the real plot, these forced missions add a sense of urgency to quelling the collector threat.

[inversevideo]

I think you need certain events that move the story forward. That put you in the position, as it would IRL, that events in the world/galaxy go forward, regardless of what you happen to be doing; and you need to react/adapt to that.



However, if you find it truly distracting, from your game enjoyment, try not speaking to T.I.M., when he wants to speak to you.



I have no idea what would happen, if you simply did not call him back, and ignored him for awhile.

It is possible that you could continue to pursue your own course for some time, without any game consequence, or something would occur to force the story (either good or bad).



But I would say that without the sense that events, in the galaxy are proceeding around you, and are not entirely in your control, the game would seem a bit shallower, no?



So an opportunity arises, or a surprise assault occurs, I feel these events are as integral to the story as side quests, and exploration; and add depth to the story.