214 réponses à ce sujet

[Delta Green]

OP is right,



Look at these forums, it's full of players romantically obsessed with these characters.



But hey, it's your life to live, have fun.

[Malificis]

Remaix wrote...

I don't see the need to worry. Bioware is a company. Bioware is not comprised of impressionable children who'll do everything people tell them to. You don't need to worry for Bioware. You don't need to hold their hand.

Stop worrying. Bioware can handle this just fine.

No but they are focussed on making money so they will listen to the mass-view. I do not like parts of the mass view.

[intersect]

Garrus was much more interesting in ME2 than the first game, and I've never played as femShep. As far as the love interests go, romance is as part of a complete RPG as anything else, more so in my opinion than how many weapon upgrades you can get. One last thing, the OP claims the romance-people are 15 year olds who are only interested in in-game sex. Yet the OP is actually the one equating in-game romance with sex, seems like someone needs to figure out who is the one being less mature...

[Malificis]

challenger18 wrote...

All this thread is is a plea for BioWare not to listen to the fans. Stupid.

It is PARTLY a plea for bioware to not listen to the large element of the fanbase who would want a love-sim, yes. Thats all you got from this thread? -.-

[Jake71887]

Delta Green wrote...

OP is right,

Look at these forums, it's full of players romantically obsessed with these characters.

But hey, it's your life to live, have fun.

You assume much young one. 

[Nhani]

Malificis wrote...
Come on people. This isn't a love-sim its an RPG. Sure the romances are nice but why are people so obsessed with them?

Because romance contains a very powerful emotional response with it; I'm not sure to what extents you're familiar with the term shipping in the context of fandom, but what you're observing on this forum is essentially a form of that.

I'd say the fact that Shepard is as much a defined character as a construct made specifically to be guided and projected into makes the emotional connection even stronger, but to be honest.. this is far from the worst I've heard of when it comes to shipping wars. In fact, the knowledge that we all have diverse experiences might serve to blunt the conflict somewhat, but I digress.

In short: this obcessing over romances - in your terms - is a quite normal response that tells you one singular thing: Mass Effect 2 got people emotionally involved. As an amusing aside, this thread could equally be considered an example of that because it's just as much about preserving what was important to you as those threads are about preserving what was important to those behind them. So while I agree it might be a good thing if people could take a step back sometimes, I think we can all acknowledge that people in general are too passionate about what matters to them for that to happen

Personally, I have all sorts of potentially unresonable requests what I'd want BioWare to expand upon in the third game, including plot depth, side quests, romances, friendships and everything, but, well. I'll trust BioWare to make something good out of it; there's a reason, after all, why they're the ones writing the game, and I'm not.

[RhythmlessNinja]

Delta Green wrote...

OP is right,

Look at these forums, it's full of players romantically obsessed with these characters.

But hey, it's your life to live, have fun.

Cool story, know any of these peeps? All I see is people having fun, nothing more.

[Jarcander]

Delta Green wrote...

OP is right,

Look at these forums, it's full of players romantically obsessed with these characters.

But hey, it's your life to live, have fun.

Way to throw more gasoline into bondfire, mate.

This topic has... no... point, but I admit it is interesting to watch. Mass Effect Tali Edition will come with a Tali plushie.

[Malificis]

intersect wrote...

Garrus was much more interesting in ME2 than the first game, and I've never played as femShep. As far as the love interests go, romance is as part of a complete RPG as anything else, more so in my opinion than how many weapon upgrades you can get. One last thing, the OP claims the romance-people are 15 year olds who are only interested in in-game sex. Yet the OP is actually the one equating in-game romance with sex, seems like someone needs to figure out who is the one being less mature...

Yeah he was.
Bioware does equate in-game romance with sex. This is not such a problem as the alternative is either lose the romances or make it real-life-level complex. The latter would be insanely hard.
I claim the "romance-people" (a stupid label as i like the romances too) are obsessed with the idea of in-game romances so much and so vocally that bioware will listen to them and make ME3 more love-sim orientated at the detriment of other aspects of the game.

[Pannamaslo]

Malificis wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

Malificis wrote...

Come on people. This isn't a love-sim its an RPG. Sure the romances are nice but why are people so obsessed with them? 
In the end, Mass Effect is an RPG. It has a decent story and very good gameplay.
The characters need to be deep and interesting sure but if the community goes on too much about romance sub-plots. There will be a price. The price will be paid by the other elements of the game and the characters we like so much will be too love-sim orientated.
It annoyed me enough already that this has caused such things as Garrus being actually fairly boring if you AREN'T femshep and romancing him. That shoudn't happen!
Getting ridiculous! Sure Tali is a good character but 19000 replies by people who for a large part seem a little...deprived, all calling for a huge Tali romance in ME3? If that happens, the aforementioned price will be high. Even as i write this I think my mere non pro-Tali stance will result in me being flamed by the legion of 15 year old Tali-Obsessives when I am raising a highly important issue.
I don't want Mass Effect to be ruined because people want in-game sex so much. The romances are a good thing but they should not be taken too far. This is not a complaint about explicitness or nudity (I laughed a lot at Miranda "riding" Shepherd fully clothed), but about the loss of other content due to fans wanting more sex.
Must be some people noticing this disturbing trend ;s

This is not a Shooter. Obsession over killing things In-Game.

I don't understand why these moronic immature people are so obsessed with killing. It just shows the barbarism of our nature that people can't enjoy a simple RPG without obsessing over weapons and armor and headshots. Anyone who doesn't think the way I do or like the parts of the game I like is an idiot.


Do you understand how pointless what you said was now?

a critic with some wit/brains! go you.
Right. The example you give assumes that I want more development of the shooter element. Not true. Character development is more important, and it is this which i see being detracted from (sex opportunities and a mediocrely well written love scene is not a replacement for real character development ala Alistair/Morrigan etc from DAO).
This is your example but not the core nature of your post. That would be the importance of subjectivity/perspective. I do not have time to argue this at length as it is a massive topic and i could never be correct (such is the nature...). Nor could you. My viewpoint is that love and sex while having a place in such a game as Mass Effect 2 should not be overdone. You do not actually express your opinion here. What do you think? That that element should be expanded, as bioware seem to be doing?

I understand your viewpoint, but as you can see on the forums romances are one of the aspects that rise very strong emotions. I doubt BW will stop right here, but I also believe they wouldn't sacriface essential plot/gameplay things in a favore of romances.  In fact the romances content consisted of few banters and a cutscene. This hardly can be called a dating sim. I assume this will be the case in ME3.

[MerinTB]

Malificis wrote...

Come on people. This isn't a love-sim its an RPG. Sure the romances are nice but why are people so obsessed with them? 

ME2 has the most meager of aspects of a dating-sim.  DAO technically had more, with more options in dialog and actual gifts you could give your teammates.  ME2 has, as part of your building your team and interacting with them, flirting and romantic feelings and such, which can culminate (as in the first game) in the "before we go into the lion's den" moment.  But I don't think even the most die-hard of the Tali fans or anyone are actually looking at the game, as a whole, as a dating-sim (or as you put it a love-sim, not sure exactly what you mean by that.)

In the end, Mass Effect is an RPG. It has a decent story and very good gameplay.

Mass Effect is a Shooter RPG.
I could go down the road (as I have before) of trying to define what is and what is not an element of an RPG, and that CRPGs by their nature are different than RPGs in general, and that any CRPG can have or not have elements that many can consider essential to RPG's but that doesn't make it or make it not an RPG ... yada yada yada ...
But instead I'll just say that in-character romance is an element that can be found in a CRPG, especially if the romances are optional AND you can choose who you try to romance - after all, if there is anything KEY to a role-playing game, it's that it needs to allow you to build your character with choices and options in that characters development.

The characters need to be deep and interesting sure but if the community goes on too much about romance sub-plots. There will be a price. The price will be paid by the other elements of the game and the characters we like so much will be too love-sim orientated.

Two things:
1 - you say "the community" but really you a vocal portion of the community; it isn't everyone on the forums, heck it probably isn't much more than half the people who post in the romance threads themselves (the other near half being the ones either hating on a certain character or on the people who have the "temerity" to express their fondness for a certain character or romance (the nerve, I know)) -- why not just let that vocal minority entertain itself and you can start up your own threads about how great the Shooter aspects or Paragaon/Renegade interrupts systems are? -- why bother complaining about what other people really enjoyed in the game?
2 - oh, right, you are worried about the romantic elements getting more weight and taking away development time from other aspects of the game;  let me give you a couple pieces of advice that you can do with as you will: A.) the developers are NOT going to base game decisions on size and popularity of a forum thread topic solely, IF AT ALL - most of the developers are savvy enough to understand how internet forums work -- B.) instead of trying to tamp down the enthusiasm others have for one aspect of the game, why not start your own groups and threads and promote the aspects of the game YOU find most important - be constructive and proactive, not destructive and obstructionist.

It annoyed me enough already that this has caused such things as Garrus being actually fairly boring if you AREN'T femshep and romancing him. That shoudn't happen!

First off, I personally REALLY liked Garrus in this game - and I played a male MC so I disagree with your one point.  Secondly I disagree with the premise here - somehow the very vocal forum members praising Tali or whomever and the romance options somehow affective the development of a game that was released before they started posting such threads and opinions?

Getting ridiculous! Sure Tali is a good character but 19000 replies by people who for a large part seem a little...deprived, all calling for a huge Tali romance in ME3?

Coincidental that you started this part by saying "Getting ridiculous" - I think you meant that the romance "obsession" is getting ridiculous, but it really was around this point that your arguments were getting ridiculous.  And funny, because how you said "Getting ridiculous!" there seems, structurally if not contextually, as if maybe you are saying that you yourself are about to go overboard with your statements.

The ad hominem there, the "people (...) who seem a little...deprived" was unnecessarily
dismissive of people you are disagreeing with.  It was needlessly demeaning and it weakens your own arguments.

If that happens, the aforementioned price will be high. Even as i write this I think my mere non pro-Tali stance will result in me being flamed by the legion of 15 year old Tali-Obsessives when I am raising a highly important issue.

A little melodramatic, don't you think?
And more of the personal attacks and insults.  Do you really believe that belittling those you disagree with, those who have different tastes or interests than you, by dismissive labelling them all "obsessive" or "15 year old"s or (earlier) as "deprived"?  You think that's constructive to your point?
Do you honestly believe that will cut off such people (as you see them) from responding to you in the way your are anticipating?  Did you not once think that, just maybe, by adding that line you were encouraging such a response to you?
Whether your point is highly important or not is a subjective call.

I don't want Mass Effect to be ruined because people want in-game sex so much. The romances are a good thing but they should not be taken too far. This is not a complaint about explicitness or nudity (I laughed a lot at Miranda "riding" Shepherd fully clothed), but about the loss of other content due to fans wanting more sex.
Must be some people noticing this disturbing trend ;s

What are important aspects to you may not be important to others.  Fully anticipating (and I realize all but baiting him to response) Stanley Woo's "we're the developers, and we're not censoring if we just decide to not include nudity nor explicit sex" canned remarks - some people would enjoy nudity and romance and yes even sex scenes in their games as much as others enjoy blood, gore, dead bodies, and shooting people and blowing stuff up in their games.  Some people like resource management and exploring, some want deep stories that delve into dark subject matter, and some like appearance customization and would love to be able to paint and shape the Normandy and each piece of armor as well as every weapon.  No game can satisfy the whims of all gamers.
Personally, I was worried about ME2 for awhile before getting it, and while playing it I was still somewhat sick in my stomach - over the direction of the story.  I was afraid I would be forced to play, AT BEST PARAGON LEVEL, a Punisher-type anti-hero, and that most of the game story would be justifying 24 Jack Bauer tactics and the greatness of race supremacy.  While others were concerned about inventory management, elevator rides, nudity, romance, and sex scenes, I was concerned I would be forced to play GTA in Space.  I think it may be hard to fathom for many how much the thought of that made me phsyically ill (it is, afterall, only a game, and if (like GTA or Manhunt) it isn't my kind of story then I can just not play it), but I didn't complain on forums about it - Bioware is making their game, and if each individual likes it or not is not their concern - just if MANY (as in enought for the game to be profitable) people enjoy it.

Nudity and sex somehow are the most taboo of game subjects, where criminal acts and extreme violence and gore have somehow slipped into acceptable.  I don't want to get into that argument, but I bring it up only because it is a meme that to state "I don't need nudity in my games - if you want it watch porn" or "get a real relationship, loser" are seen as completely rational and reasonable and yet "I don't need gore in my games - if you want that go watch a horror movie" and "I don't need violence in my games - if you want that go rent an action film"
or "get a real guitar and learn how to play, loser" and "put down Madden and pick up a real football and get some friends to actually play the sport, friendless weakling!" are not considered rational.

The only trend I see that I find truly disturbing is this:
One group of people will say what they really like in the game, what they want more of in the game, what they wish was in the game or it's sequel
AND THEN
another group pops up to bash, belittle, or dismiss the first group and that first's groups opinions.

The second part of that, the bashing other's likes and interests, is what I think is the bad trend.

You post and the subsequent responses in this thread, while maybe you did not intentionally start it for that purpose, is regardless FULL of that trend.

[Kwonnern]

Delta and Malifis

You have to understand one thing, contrary to your beliefs, they are not really obsessed, they are just having fun and enjoying the franchise.

It's a sound evidence that the franchise is doing well.

If the fanbase/customerbase felt that the characters were lifeless and without any substance, there would not be any threads at all about them, so the only thing that's needed is to commend Bioware for a job well done, instead of complaining on the customers for enjoying the franchise and getting upset just because you cannot stand "easily excited" people.

Modifié par Kwonnern, 14 février 2010 - 06:22 .

[Llandaryn]

While I agree that there's way too many threads dedicated to the same romance options over and over and over again, it's a free forum (until the mods start cracking their whips) and people have a right to discuss whatever aspects of the game they like. Or don't like. If people want to obsess, let them. I mean, who hasn't obsessed and fantasised about Blasto at some point?

*watches a tumbleweed roll past*

[Legbiter]

McBeath wrote...

Wait, you mean to say you've never asked your wife to dress up like a quarian and try to seduce you for Valentines day?  I'm the only one?  Hmmm... maybe that's why I'm gonna be sleeping on the couch, and I just thought she was crazy.

Hell no man, that's a kink too far for me.







We prefer Asari-themed cosplay in this here household.

[addiction21]

Jarcander wrote...


Way to throw more gasoline into bondfire, mate.

This topic has... no... point, but I admit it is interesting to watch. Mass Effect Tali Edition will come with a Tali plushie.

I wonder how fast those plushies would go from soft and supple to sticky and caked with a white like substance...

[Gill Kaiser]

OP is taking fan gushing far to seriously. Perfectly rational people can become mental in shipping wars on the internet, surely everyone knows that? It doesn't mean that they're actually obsessed.

[Jake71887]

Malificis wrote...
Yeah he was.
Bioware does equate in-game romance with sex. This is not such a problem as the alternative is either lose the romances or make it real-life-level complex. The latter would be insanely hard.
I claim the "romance-people" (a stupid label as i like the romances too) are obsessed with the idea of in-game romances so much and so vocally that bioware will listen to them and make ME3 more love-sim orientated at the detriment of other aspects of the game.

Bioware likes making a bond between a player and the side characters, and while part of that is always the love angle, they also do a great job at the friendship angle. Some of my favorite bioware characters weren't romance options, they were just the guys you grew to have a kinship with from a shared experience(jo'lee and wrex come to mind). Is it sad that a game can evoke such feelings in people, whether it's romance or friendship? I'm not sure, what I am sure of is that their writing is like none other to be able to bring people to that point.

[Malificis]

Nhani wrote...

Malificis wrote...
Come on people. This isn't a love-sim its an RPG. Sure the romances are nice but why are people so obsessed with them?

Because romance contains a very powerful emotional response with it; I'm not sure to what extents you're familiar with the term shipping in the context of fandom, but what you're observing on this forum is essentially a form of that.

I'd say the fact that Shepard is as much a defined character as a construct made specifically to be guided and projected into makes the emotional connection even stronger, but to be honest.. this is far from the worst I've heard of when it comes to shipping wars. In fact, the knowledge that we all have diverse experiences might serve to blunt the conflict somewhat, but I digress.

In short: this obcessing over romances - in your terms - is a quite normal response that tells you one singular thing: Mass Effect 2 got people emotionally involved. As an amusing aside, this thread could equally be considered an example of that because it's just as much about preserving what was important to you as those threads are about preserving what was important to those behind them. So while I agree it might be a good thing if people could take a step back sometimes, I think we can all acknowledge that people in general are too passionate about what matters to them for that to happen

Personally, I have all sorts of potentially unresonable requests what I'd want BioWare to expand upon in the third game, including plot depth, side quests, romances, friendships and everything, but, well. I'll trust BioWare to make something good out of it; there's a reason, after all, why they're the ones writing the game, and I'm not.

Hmm i suppose so. Yes players get emotionally involved, hence the balance is quite good at the moment. But it gets many involved via a route I dislike as it is...inferior. Why can they not do it by making characters deep and interesting rather than the current route of relying almost entirely on romance? 

Ok Garrus in ME2 as maleshep vs Alistair as male PC.
Alistair was so much more developed and I got more attached to him EVEN THOUGH i preferred Garrus because i like the basis for the character more.
As femshep youd get more attached to Garrus esp. if you are a girl irl than a maleshep. This is just one example but I feel the romance subplots have taken away the writing process from what would have been an enhancement of garrus's character without romance, as Alistair was well developed for a male PC.
Budgets have a limit.

[McBeath]

Nhani wrote...

Malificis wrote...
Come on people. This isn't a love-sim its an RPG. Sure the romances are nice but why are people so obsessed with them?

Because romance contains a very powerful emotional response with it; I'm not sure to what extents you're familiar with the term shipping in the context of fandom, but what you're observing on this forum is essentially a form of that.

I'd say the fact that Shepard is as much a defined character as a construct made specifically to be guided and projected into makes the emotional connection even stronger, but to be honest.. this is far from the worst I've heard of when it comes to shipping wars. In fact, the knowledge that we all have diverse experiences might serve to blunt the conflict somewhat, but I digress.

In short: this obcessing over romances - in your terms - is a quite normal response that tells you one singular thing: Mass Effect 2 got people emotionally involved. As an amusing aside, this thread could equally be considered an example of that because it's just as much about preserving what was important to you as those threads are about preserving what was important to those behind them. So while I agree it might be a good thing if people could take a step back sometimes, I think we can all acknowledge that people in general are too passionate about what matters to them for that to happen

Personally, I have all sorts of potentially unresonable requests what I'd want BioWare to expand upon in the third game, including plot depth, side quests, romances, friendships and everything, but, well. I'll trust BioWare to make something good out of it; there's a reason, after all, why they're the ones writing the game, and I'm not.

Am I the only person disturbed by the fact that people are this ardent in regards to a fictional relationship/friendship.  I have always struggled with idea that people have "internet friends" that you've ever met in person, but at least they are real(and probibly 50 year old swedish guys pretending to be 20 year old women... boy was that an uncomfortable night).  I do agree that with any kind of entertainment media it's important to engage the audiance, but I think that the OP is just commenting on the obsessive need of some of the people posting here to see/enjoy a fictional romance. 

Could he have gone about it better?  Probibly.  I for one would be embarrassed if I went to the Pub and told my friends about my totally hot austrailian girlfriend, and when they asked to see her I had to tell them that she existed only on my Xbox, and was too busy saving the universe to bother with them... Then they'd likely kick me in the daddy bags.  Buggers.

I think in all seriousness it's important to allow people their own freedoms in regards to being entertained, and that some people will always take it too far.  Fortunately they only exist to me on the internet, as nobody is crazy enough to sport a "Tali, forever in my heart crap" T-shirt in public.

Modifié par McBeath, 14 février 2010 - 06:24 .

[Jarcander]

addiction21 wrote...

I wonder how fast those plushies would go from soft and supple to sticky and caked with a white like substance...

Ack, your skill at crafting disruptive mental images is commendable, but I wasn't refering to a toy rather than life-sized variant.

[McBeath]

@ Jake71887

Just noticed your banner, and I salute you for ensuring that the hands of gamers worldwide do indeed stay above the keyboard. Well done Sir.

Modifié par McBeath, 14 février 2010 - 06:27 .

[Jax Sparrow]

I want both.

[challenger18]

Malificis wrote...

challenger18 wrote...

All this thread is is a plea for BioWare not to listen to the fans. Stupid.

It is PARTLY a plea for bioware to not listen to the large element of the fanbase who would want a love-sim, yes. Thats all you got from this thread? -.-

I haven't heard any pleas from anyone wanting to turn ME3 into a love sim, all I've seen is people wanting their favorite character having the same degree of importantness as they had in ME2 or ME1 in ME3. I myself have stressed that I wish they would work on dialogue between all characters, especially love interest characters. To have it at least at the degree that DAO had. There was a lot of dialogue to go around in that game whether you were romancing a character or not, in ME2 you get 1-3 conversations before characters are always busy or your love interest dialogue starts to loop. You can't pursue friendships with any love interest, which also bugs me, they just go in the always busy after 1 dialogue option after their loyalty mission.

So yes, this thread is stupid, just like I believe the support blank character for ME3 is stupid. They are not going to turn their game into a love sim and they are not going to pull a **** ME1LIs on the ME2LIs because it's the last game.

[Tamcia]

Romances are a part of this game, Bioware game. You don't want romances, you are free to quit this game/not romance anyone.



It brings so much more into the game. If people started stripping the game of such things, eventually all you would have would be an arcade shooter.

[RhythmlessNinja]

McBeath wrote...

Nhani wrote...

Malificis wrote...
Come on people. This isn't a love-sim its an RPG. Sure the romances are nice but why are people so obsessed with them?

Because romance contains a very powerful emotional response with it; I'm not sure to what extents you're familiar with the term shipping in the context of fandom, but what you're observing on this forum is essentially a form of that.

I'd say the fact that Shepard is as much a defined character as a construct made specifically to be guided and projected into makes the emotional connection even stronger, but to be honest.. this is far from the worst I've heard of when it comes to shipping wars. In fact, the knowledge that we all have diverse experiences might serve to blunt the conflict somewhat, but I digress.

In short: this obcessing over romances - in your terms - is a quite normal response that tells you one singular thing: Mass Effect 2 got people emotionally involved. As an amusing aside, this thread could equally be considered an example of that because it's just as much about preserving what was important to you as those threads are about preserving what was important to those behind them. So while I agree it might be a good thing if people could take a step back sometimes, I think we can all acknowledge that people in general are too passionate about what matters to them for that to happen

Personally, I have all sorts of potentially unresonable requests what I'd want BioWare to expand upon in the third game, including plot depth, side quests, romances, friendships and everything, but, well. I'll trust BioWare to make something good out of it; there's a reason, after all, why they're the ones writing the game, and I'm not.

Am I the only person disturbed by the fact that people are this ardent in regards to a fictional relationship/friendship.  I have always struggled with idea that people have "internet friends" that you've ever met in person, but at least they are real(and probibly 50 year old swedish guys pretending to be 20 year old women... boy was that an uncomfortable night).  I do agree that with any kind of entertainment media it's important to engage the audiance, but I think that the OP is just commenting on the obsessive need of some of the people posting here to see/enjoy a fictional romance. 

Could he have gone about it better?  Probibly.  I for one would be embarrassed if I went to the Pub and told my friends about my totally hot austrailian girlfriend, and when they asked to see her I had to tell them that she existed only on my Xbox, and was too busy saving the universe to bother with them... Then they'd likely kick me in the daddy bags.  Buggers.

I think in all seriousness it's important to allow people their own freedoms in regards to being entertained, and that some people will always take it too far.  Fortunately they only exist to me on the internet, as nobody is crazy enough to sport a "Tali, forever in my heart crap" T-shirt in public.

That's pretty much what I said in my first post just worded differently. You dunno these people on the internet, what they do on here =/= what happens in real life nor what they do there.