Malificis wrote...
SirenCurse wrote...
I highly doubt they would cut down on other aspect of the game just so they could add more romance options in Mass Effect 2 or 3.
why not? LOTS of people would have them do so. primary objective is money. what people want = more money. worrying.
Guest_SirenCurse_*
Malificis wrote...
SirenCurse wrote...
I highly doubt they would cut down on other aspect of the game just so they could add more romance options in Mass Effect 2 or 3.
why not? LOTS of people would have them do so. primary objective is money. what people want = more money. worrying.
intersect wrote...
Malificis wrote...
SirenCurse wrote...
I highly doubt they would cut down on other aspect of the game just so they could add more romance options in Mass Effect 2 or 3.
why not? LOTS of people would have them do so. primary objective is money. what people want = more money. worrying.
Why would you need to cut out anything, the story/saving the universe from the reapers is the main game, theres not a max number of sub-plots or anything
Modifié par Malificis, 14 février 2010 - 06:58 .
Modifié par Suprez30, 14 février 2010 - 06:59 .
Malificis wrote...
indeed Merin i read your post and edited by topic slightly.
the reply to such a post would be extremely long as it would end up as an argument over subjectivity/perspective and i dont have time at the moment.
The characters need to be deep and interesting sure but if the community goes on too much about romance sub-plots. There will be a price. The price will be paid by the other elements of the game and the characters we like so much will be too love-sim orientated.
1 - you say "the community" but really you a vocal portion of the community; it isn't everyone on the forums, heck it probably isn't much more than half the people who post in the romance threads themselves (the other near half being the ones either hating on a certain character or on the people who have the "temerity" to express their fondness for a certain character or romance (the nerve, I know)) -- why not just let that vocal minority entertain itself and you can start up your own threads about how great the Shooter aspects or Paragaon/Renegade interrupts systems are? -- why bother complaining about what other people really enjoyed in the game?
2 - oh, right, you are worried about the romantic elements getting more weight and taking away development time from other aspects of the game; let me give you a couple pieces of advice that you can do with as you will: A.) the developers are NOT going to base game decisions on size and popularity of a forum thread topic solely, IF AT ALL - most of the developers are savvy enough to understand how internet forums work -- B.) instead of trying to tamp down the enthusiasm others have for one aspect of the game, why not start your own groups and threads and promote the aspects of the game YOU find most important - be constructive and proactive, not destructive and obstructionist.
If that happens, the aforementioned price will be high. Even as i write this I think my mere non pro-Tali stance will result in me being flamed by the legion of 15 year old Tali-Obsessives when I am raising a highly important issue.
A little melodramatic, don't you think?
And more of the personal attacks and insults. Do you really believe that belittling those you disagree with, those who have different tastes or interests than you, by dismissive labelling them all "obsessive" or "15 year old"s or (earlier) as "deprived"? You think that's constructive to your point?
Do you honestly believe that will cut off such people (as you see them) from responding to you in the way your are
anticipating? Did you not once think that, just maybe, by adding that line you were encouraging such a response to you?
intersect wrote...
Why would you need to cut out anything, the story/saving the universe from the reapers is the main game, theres not a max number of sub-plots or anything
Modifié par Jarcander, 14 février 2010 - 07:01 .
Suprez30 wrote...
My favorite character in the game it's Mordin Solus . You can talk to him a lot without romancing him.The other romance in the game seem forced.The only reason i romance them it's because i want to know more about their character.I want to know their backstory .Also since i'm basicly building the story for my Shepard.I want him to have a deeper story than simply saving the galaxy.He need relationship like in any story.
Sure i'm attached to some of the character.Just like i got attached to character like Frodo in Lord of the ring.Take Garrus for instance .. If you don't romance him .. He will open 3 dialogue with you.Very dissapointing.
In Dragon Age .. Each character had much more depth and did not need to romance Zevran to know about his past and become *friend* with him.. It's add to the story .It's make the story more immersive .It's fun knowing about the character in a story.What would be the point about a book that does not tell the story of any of the character?
Mass effect it's before anything else a story.If the fan got attached to some of those character.That mean bioware got a great story with very great writer.it's has nothing to do with *SIm love* ..
Dumby.
.
Malificis wrote...
Did you not also read my reply to that post? 'intersect' is twisting my initial post. romance is fine just not too much at too high a cost.
Zouns wrote...
Malificis wrote...
Did you not also read my reply to that post? 'intersect' is twisting my initial post. romance is fine just not too much at too high a cost.
*Zouns approves with +25*
Pardon me, trying to work on a school project between scouring through the boards. ...and I'm dead slow when it comes to responding to new posts.
As for your previous respond. I agree, there's no need to make ME3 a dating-sim or a virtual intercourse application. I'm would be well satisfied with a handful of well written romance stories. Why handful? Well, I like versatility. And it's not like Bioware has forced the player to pick up a romance.
Like I said, I like versatility. There should be romance for those who like it as well as there should be a friendship paths, non-violent approaches on certain dilemma's, moral choices... et cetera yada.
jojon2se wrote...
Yahzee is not to be taken seriously, common mistake.
), but there seems to be a lot of discussion about them (like in Dragon Age forums too when i last checked). Romance subplots are good for an RPG and can make story more involving (Leliana romance + "Ultimate Sacrifice" ending, for example 
), but they still should be a minor feature of the game. I think the six options in ME2 were overdoing it (whereas DA's 4 were more reasonable). This game is about saving the galaxy, romance subplots are good to spice it up, but shouldn't become the main focus for developers nor players.
MerinTB wrote...
Malificis wrote...
indeed Merin i read your post and edited by topic slightly.
the reply to such a post would be extremely long as it would end up as an argument over subjectivity/perspective and i dont have time at the moment.
Even though you've been posting in this thread for the last 2 hours - I see about you not having the time.
I'll shorten it for you -The characters need to be deep and interesting sure but if the community goes on too much about romance sub-plots. There will be a price. The price will be paid by the other elements of the game and the characters we like so much will be too love-sim orientated.
1 - you say "the community" but really you a vocal portion of the community; it isn't everyone on the forums, heck it probably isn't much more than half the people who post in the romance threads themselves (the other near half being the ones either hating on a certain character or on the people who have the "temerity" to express their fondness for a certain character or romance (the nerve, I know)) -- why not just let that vocal minority entertain itself and you can start up your own threads about how great the Shooter aspects or Paragaon/Renegade interrupts systems are? -- why bother complaining about what other people really enjoyed in the game?
2 - oh, right, you are worried about the romantic elements getting more weight and taking away development time from other aspects of the game; let me give you a couple pieces of advice that you can do with as you will: A.) the developers are NOT going to base game decisions on size and popularity of a forum thread topic solely, IF AT ALL - most of the developers are savvy enough to understand how internet forums work -- B.) instead of trying to tamp down the enthusiasm others have for one aspect of the game, why not start your own groups and threads and promote the aspects of the game YOU find most important - be constructive and proactive, not destructive and obstructionist.
andIf that happens, the aforementioned price will be high. Even as i write this I think my mere non pro-Tali stance will result in me being flamed by the legion of 15 year old Tali-Obsessives when I am raising a highly important issue.
A little melodramatic, don't you think?
And more of the personal attacks and insults. Do you really believe that belittling those you disagree with, those who have different tastes or interests than you, by dismissive labelling them all "obsessive" or "15 year old"s or (earlier) as "deprived"? You think that's constructive to your point?
Do you honestly believe that will cut off such people (as you see them) from responding to you in the way your are
anticipating? Did you not once think that, just maybe, by adding that line you were encouraging such a response to you?
Nothing subjective and perspective there. Specifically looking at your arguments and intentions now.
Modifié par Malificis, 14 février 2010 - 07:15 .
MerinTB wrote...
Malificis wrote...
Come on people. This isn't a love-sim its an RPG. Sure the romances are nice but why are people so obsessed with them?
ME2 has the most meager of aspects of a dating-sim. DAO technically had more, with more options in dialog and actual gifts you could give your teammates. ME2 has, as part of your building your team and interacting with them, flirting and romantic feelings and such, which can culminate (as in the first game) in the "before we go into the lion's den" moment. But I don't think even the most die-hard of the Tali fans or anyone are actually looking at the game, as a whole, as a dating-sim (or as you put it a love-sim, not sure exactly what you mean by that.)In the end, Mass Effect is an RPG. It has a decent story and very good gameplay.
Mass Effect is a Shooter RPG.
I could go down the road (as I have before) of trying to define what is and what is not an element of an RPG, and that CRPGs by their nature are different than RPGs in general, and that any CRPG can have or not have elements that many can consider essential to RPG's but that doesn't make it or make it not an RPG ... yada yada yada ...
But instead I'll just say that in-character romance is an element that can be found in a CRPG, especially if the romances are optional AND you can choose who you try to romance - after all, if there is anything KEY to a role-playing game, it's that it needs to allow you to build your character with choices and options in that characters development.The characters need to be deep and interesting sure but if the community goes on too much about romance sub-plots. There will be a price. The price will be paid by the other elements of the game and the characters we like so much will be too love-sim orientated.
Two things:
1 - you say "the community" but really you a vocal portion of the community; it isn't everyone on the forums, heck it probably isn't much more than half the people who post in the romance threads themselves (the other near half being the ones either hating on a certain character or on the people who have the "temerity" to express their fondness for a certain character or romance (the nerve, I know)) -- why not just let that vocal minority entertain itself and you can start up your own threads about how great the Shooter aspects or Paragaon/Renegade interrupts systems are? -- why bother complaining about what other people really enjoyed in the game?
2 - oh, right, you are worried about the romantic elements getting more weight and taking away development time from other aspects of the game; let me give you a couple pieces of advice that you can do with as you will: A.) the developers are NOT going to base game decisions on size and popularity of a forum thread topic solely, IF AT ALL - most of the developers are savvy enough to understand how internet forums work -- B.) instead of trying to tamp down the enthusiasm others have for one aspect of the game, why not start your own groups and threads and promote the aspects of the game YOU find most important - be constructive and proactive, not destructive and obstructionist.It annoyed me enough already that this has caused such things as Garrus being actually fairly boring if you AREN'T femshep and romancing him. That shoudn't happen!
First off, I personally REALLY liked Garrus in this game - and I played a male MC so I disagree with your one point. Secondly I disagree with the premise here - somehow the very vocal forum members praising Tali or whomever and the romance options somehow affective the development of a game that was released before they started posting such threads and opinions?Getting ridiculous! Sure Tali is a good character but 19000 replies by people who for a large part seem a little...deprived, all calling for a huge Tali romance in ME3?
Coincidental that you started this part by saying "Getting ridiculous" - I think you meant that the romance "obsession" is getting ridiculous, but it really was around this point that your arguments were getting ridiculous. And funny, because how you said "Getting ridiculous!" there seems, structurally if not contextually, as if maybe you are saying that you yourself are about to go overboard with your statements.
The ad hominem there, the "people (...) who seem a little...deprived" was unnecessarily
dismissive of people you are disagreeing with. It was needlessly demeaning and it weakens your own arguments.If that happens, the aforementioned price will be high. Even as i write this I think my mere non pro-Tali stance will result in me being flamed by the legion of 15 year old Tali-Obsessives when I am raising a highly important issue.
A little melodramatic, don't you think?
And more of the personal attacks and insults. Do you really believe that belittling those you disagree with, those who have different tastes or interests than you, by dismissive labelling them all "obsessive" or "15 year old"s or (earlier) as "deprived"? You think that's constructive to your point?
Do you honestly believe that will cut off such people (as you see them) from responding to you in the way your are anticipating? Did you not once think that, just maybe, by adding that line you were encouraging such a response to you?
Whether your point is highly important or not is a subjective call.I don't want Mass Effect to be ruined because people want in-game sex so much. The romances are a good thing but they should not be taken too far. This is not a complaint about explicitness or nudity (I laughed a lot at Miranda "riding" Shepherd fully clothed), but about the loss of other content due to fans wanting more sex.
Must be some people noticing this disturbing trend ;s
What are important aspects to you may not be important to others. Fully anticipating (and I realize all but baiting him to response) Stanley Woo's "we're the developers, and we're not censoring if we just decide to not include nudity nor explicit sex" canned remarks - some people would enjoy nudity and romance and yes even sex scenes in their games as much as others enjoy blood, gore, dead bodies, and shooting people and blowing stuff up in their games. Some people like resource management and exploring, some want deep stories that delve into dark subject matter, and some like appearance customization and would love to be able to paint and shape the Normandy and each piece of armor as well as every weapon. No game can satisfy the whims of all gamers.
Personally, I was worried about ME2 for awhile before getting it, and while playing it I was still somewhat sick in my stomach - over the direction of the story. I was afraid I would be forced to play, AT BEST PARAGON LEVEL, a Punisher-type anti-hero, and that most of the game story would be justifying 24 Jack Bauer tactics and the greatness of race supremacy. While others were concerned about inventory management, elevator rides, nudity, romance, and sex scenes, I was concerned I would be forced to play GTA in Space. I think it may be hard to fathom for many how much the thought of that made me phsyically ill (it is, afterall, only a game, and if (like GTA or Manhunt) it isn't my kind of story then I can just not play it), but I didn't complain on forums about it - Bioware is making their game, and if each individual likes it or not is not their concern - just if MANY (as in enought for the game to be profitable) people enjoy it.
Nudity and sex somehow are the most taboo of game subjects, where criminal acts and extreme violence and gore have somehow slipped into acceptable. I don't want to get into that argument, but I bring it up only because it is a meme that to state "I don't need nudity in my games - if you want it watch porn" or "get a real relationship, loser" are seen as completely rational and reasonable and yet "I don't need gore in my games - if you want that go watch a horror movie" and "I don't need violence in my games - if you want that go rent an action film"
or "get a real guitar and learn how to play, loser" and "put down Madden and pick up a real football and get some friends to actually play the sport, friendless weakling!" are not considered rational.
The only trend I see that I find truly disturbing is this:
One group of people will say what they really like in the game, what they want more of in the game, what they wish was in the game or it's sequel
AND THEN
another group pops up to bash, belittle, or dismiss the first group and that first's groups opinions.
The second part of that, the bashing other's likes and interests, is what I think is the bad trend.
You post and the subsequent responses in this thread, while maybe you did not intentionally start it for that purpose, is regardless FULL of that trend.
Modifié par Malificis, 14 février 2010 - 07:16 .
Modifié par Zouns, 14 février 2010 - 07:19 .
Malificis wrote...
Wrong. The vocal community may well have an effect as Bioware listens to its community. I would attack opinions of others because i feel they will be detrimental to my wishes and the wishes of those who would agree with me.
By attacking the opinions of others I raise what I like in Mass Effect, i.e. plot and the wish for more character depth. Essentially you could call it aggressive promotion hopefully at the expense of the promotion/wishes of others I dislike. I do not care if you like this or not because you seem desperate to kill the conception of my argument.
No, insults are not always constructive to my argument but they get attention and provoke response - the objective of such comments. I do not care if you do not like this.
Zouns wrote...
In addition to my previous post.
...and if there will be in-game nudity, I wouldn't be shocked, nor would I be aroused. It's just not that big of a deal. Sure some 15-year-olds might go: "OMG BOOBS!", since it's all new to them but we're not all like that. I think it's safe to say I have a mature approach to these things as do many others.
Ingame sex? Well, I would certainly keep that a bit odd. I don't need to see every bit of detail like crews bathroom breaks, so why this.
Oddest thing, people tend to get all wired up from tiny tease,glimpse of nudity or beautiful endearment but won't even flinch when the people start shooting each other, corpses lying on the battlefield, cruelty... etc.
Why do you scream at love and not at war?
Kwonnern wrote...
Malificis wrote...
Wrong. The vocal community may well have an effect as Bioware listens to its community. I would attack opinions of others because i feel they will be detrimental to my wishes and the wishes of those who would agree with me.
By attacking the opinions of others I raise what I like in Mass Effect, i.e. plot and the wish for more character depth. Essentially you could call it aggressive promotion hopefully at the expense of the promotion/wishes of others I dislike. I do not care if you like this or not because you seem desperate to kill the conception of my argument.
No, insults are not always constructive to my argument but they get attention and provoke response - the objective of such comments. I do not care if you do not like this.
Then why should we care about you?
Let the developers (Bioware) decide what's detrimental or not to their story / franchise.
jojon2se wrote...
Let's sweepingly say that one month of work for an entire large team results in half an hour of gameplay and you may see where the Malificis' concern stems from. Efforts must be rationed and the consequences of every extra vital option in a dialogue tree may grow exponentionally, as further disclosure branches further . All dialogue will have to be ot threcorded, whether one player ever hears it or not and every combination of outcomes needs to be wired in game logic.
I just think he worries unnecessarily - I can't imagine the loud few have anywhere near the influence he fears and Bioware have probably geir roadmap pretty much laid out already.
Malificis wrote...
Come on people. This isn't a love-sim its an RPG. Sure the romances are nice but why are people so obsessed with them?
In the end, Mass Effect is an RPG. It has a decent story and very good gameplay.
Anastassia wrote...
Romance has always been a part of BioWare's games. Long-time fans have come to expect the same quality of character development that they're accustomed to, so romances won't be going anywhere.
Jake71887 wrote...
abisha wrote...
sorry but this game is far away of being a RPG..
it's only a FPS with some elements of "talking"
hack even ME1 was a better RPG
You do know FPS means First Person Shooter right?
Modifié par Fatal34Frame, 14 février 2010 - 07:27 .
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