96 réponses à ce sujet

[Doug84]

lltoon wrote...

The council would deny the existence of humans.

"Ah yes, the humans" *finger quote*

That's how the humans win.

"Ah yes, humans *finger quotes* The race of sentient chimpazee's who walk upright and fly around in starships, recklessly opening all Mass Relays they find - we've dismissed such claims."

[Rankao]

I don't know a fighter would be significantly harder to hit then a Cruiser or Frigate. First the image your sensors get is delayed. Frigate and Cruisers are larger and by default more difficult to maneuver. Fighters would impossible to hit at long ranges and the other self defense methods are easily countered. A 20 fighters would likely be capable of nibbling down Kinetic Barriers and able to do a direct punch into the mass core disabling the ship.



Example would be the drones that attacked the Normandy. At close range the Normandy had to struggle against those fighters. The Normandy is a extremely small and advance Frigate and it still really struggled against those smaller drones. In fact the only reason the Normandy survived was because they used the environment to destroy escape the drones. Its very likely that if it was Normandy vs. Drones in open space the drones would have won.



That said humanity would have lost, but the council would ultimately step in because it was an unnecessary war to fight.

[Kr0gan]

Humans = Soviet Union

Turians = **** Germany



Humanity will prevail at the end but with a huge cost in lifes and infrastructure.



Ah yes and the human carriers could give some nasty surprises to the turians dreadnoughts.

[In Exile]

The Council wouldn't have let the turians go on a genocidal bender regardless of what the specifics of the conflict were. The scenario just doesn't make any sense. From the perspective of the asari and salarians, the turians were gearing up for an all out war with a new species, and once they realized this, went all "wtf is wrong with the turians!?" and put a stop to things.



If for whatever reasons the Turians told the Council to shove it to go on a genocidal bender, then humanity would be in a different position because there'd be three-way tensions. The asari would try to negotiate a cease-fire between the humans and turians, and the salarians would get to work on slipping the humans intelligence & bio-weapons. I just don't see any way there could be all-out war between the turians and humans and NOT involve the rest of the universe.



We beat them at Shanxi because they thought what they were defeating was our entire fleet, as opposed to a proxy garrison. The turians were caught with their pants down and smoked. That hurt their pride, and so they wanted to curb-stomp humanity to prove a point.



Another major factor would be how much turians respect Council conventions of war (e.g. "nuking" worlds with asteroids). Humanity would pull out all the stops - biological warfare, nuclear weapons on worlds, etc. If we could relase something that would kill turians, we'd do it, because from our perspective we'd be facing anihilation. From humanity's perspective, fighting the turians pre-first contact is like fighting the reapers.

[Rankao]

In Exile wrote...

The Council wouldn't have let the turians go on a genocidal bender regardless of what the specifics of the conflict were. The scenario just doesn't make any sense. From the perspective of the asari and salarians, the turians were gearing up for an all out war with a new species, and once they realized this, went all "wtf is wrong with the turians!?" and put a stop to things.

If for whatever reasons the Turians told the Council to shove it to go on a genocidal bender, then humanity would be in a different position because there'd be three-way tensions. The asari would try to negotiate a cease-fire between the humans and turians, and the salarians would get to work on slipping the humans intelligence & bio-weapons. I just don't see any way there could be all-out war between the turians and humans and NOT involve the rest of the universe.

We beat them at Shanxi because they thought what they were defeating was our entire fleet, as opposed to a proxy garrison. The turians were caught with their pants down and smoked. That hurt their pride, and so they wanted to curb-stomp humanity to prove a point.

Another major factor would be how much turians respect Council conventions of war (e.g. "nuking" worlds with asteroids). Humanity would pull out all the stops - biological warfare, nuclear weapons on worlds, etc. If we could relase something that would kill turians, we'd do it, because from our perspective we'd be facing anihilation. From humanity's perspective, fighting the turians pre-first contact is like fighting the reapers.

This exactly.

[selvacin]

marshalleck wrote...

Humans ultimately would have been decimated, but huge portions of Citadel space would be uninhabitable.

We do love our atomic weapons

[Doug84]

selvacin wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Humans ultimately would have been decimated, but huge portions of Citadel space would be uninhabitable.

We do love our atomic weapons

We just wanted to give it a hug (with the atomic force of a thousand suns)

[Society]

The thing is that equal numbers the humans pretty near annihilated the Turians due to "unusual" tactics that the rest of the galaxy hadn't developed, such as carriers.



Then again, the Turians had overwhelming numbers at the start... And then again, the humans have a superior home-world economy. Who knows, really.

[Society]

Tokala42 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It wouldn't necessarily have been a cakewalk for the turians. They are a significant military strength, but they aren't exactly bold strategists. As I recall, their chief strategy is to just let dreadnoughts hammer the crap out of each other.

A few cruiser/frigate wolf packs and a carrier with a full compliment of fighters can put a serious downer on a vessel intended for long range heavy bombardment, as we saw when the Destiny Ascension got torn to shreds by swarms of geth frigates.

This is probably the way it would go, even if it was just during the early fights. What's the likelyhood that if Humans did win early battles that they would call in Council Allies e.g. Salarian Aid as with Krogans?

'cept the rest of the galaxy pretty much blaimed the Turian's for the conflict, the Armistice was imposed upon THEM and THEY were forced to pay repairations to the human alliance.

The Galaxy sided with the plucky upstarts so I doubt that the humans would've been alone... if it escalated into a full scale war it would've been a galactic civil war at worst or well ... the armistace otherwise.

[Pannamaslo]

Of course we would win. Humans are like damn roaches, unkillable!

BTW loved In Exile post. Agree on this one.

Modifié par Pannamaslo, 14 février 2010 - 09:27 .

[Doug84]

Society wrote...

Tokala42 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

It wouldn't necessarily have been a cakewalk for the turians. They are a significant military strength, but they aren't exactly bold strategists. As I recall, their chief strategy is to just let dreadnoughts hammer the crap out of each other.

A few cruiser/frigate wolf packs and a carrier with a full compliment of fighters can put a serious downer on a vessel intended for long range heavy bombardment, as we saw when the Destiny Ascension got torn to shreds by swarms of geth frigates.

This is probably the way it would go, even if it was just during the early fights. What's the likelyhood that if Humans did win early battles that they would call in Council Allies e.g. Salarian Aid as with Krogans?

'cept the rest of the galaxy pretty much blaimed the Turian's for the conflict, the Armistice was imposed upon THEM and THEY were forced to pay repairations to the human alliance.

The Galaxy sided with the plucky upstarts so I doubt that the humans would've been alone... if it escalated into a full scale war it would've been a galactic civil war at worst or well ... the armistace otherwise.

To be fair, the Turians where being jerks "Look, their trying to activate a relay... OPEN FIRE!" "Erm, sir, do you want to try and talk to this new and unknown species first?" "No, obey my order!"

[Alexandus]

Humanity was minding its own business, opening a relay, when all of a sudden, BAM!



The freaking turians attacked us! A simple "Hey aliens, please don't open that relay" would have sufficed, but instead of opening communications, they opened fire.



The war was clearly the Turian's fault, and humanity is one angry beehive when threatened. On the whole, we're a deliciously vicious and violent species.



The Turians do have a technological advantage, but one that could quickly disappear after humanity takes steps to pirate the aforementioned technology.



I would advocate that Humanity would win, albeit at the cost of a lot of resources and lives.

[In Exile]

The galaxy didn't side with the plucky upstarts, IMO. It decided against supporting genocide, which is pretty much wanted the turians wanted because we hurt their feelings. Seriously. They geared up for all out war cause we sort-of dented their pride.

[sergio71785]

The Turians may destroy humanities colonies and all that, but they wouldn't be able to take Earth. They were a lot more advanced, sure, but taking over a home world of a space-faring species is an astronomical endeavor. There'd be probably close to a billion people capable and willing to fight an invading force like that, and the resources a home world provides are limitless. Not to mention the Turians would have practically no knowledge of humans.



But that's irrelevant, since as it was stated, the Council would not let the Turians attempt genocide like that to a completely new species no one knows anything about.

[sergio71785]

lltoon wrote...

The council would deny the existence of humans.

"Ah yes, the humans" *finger quote*

That's how the humans win.

Okay, this was hilarious 

[Doug84]

sergio71785 wrote...

lltoon wrote...

The council would deny the existence of humans.

"Ah yes, the humans" *finger quote*

That's how the humans win.

Okay, this was hilarious 

"A race of sentient chimpazees? We've dismissed such claims." 

[Randy1012]

Some of you guys are giving humanity way too much credit. The turians had been the galaxy's dominant military force for centuries. Mankind had only just discovered the Prothean data cache on Mars a decade before the First Contact War. They'd have won a few token battles here and there, but by 2157 the Alliance wasn't even ten years old yet. Mankind was alone in the universe, as far as they knew, so military expansion likely was not as big a priority as was exploration and settling new colonies to relieve Earth's massive population. Maybe if the Alliance had another thirty to fifty years of preparation, humanity would have been better suited to fight a full-scale war against the Turian Hierarchy, but as things were, no, they had no shot.

If the Council hadn't intervened, the war likely would have gone much like how the Earth-Minbari War went in Babylon 5. The Earth Alliance were the new kids on the block, and had a decent military, but they were totally and completely outclassed by the Minbari, who decimated every human fleet they came up against and nearly annihilated Earth. It took a cosmic coincidence discovered at the last possible second to save Earth and humanity from destruction.

I don't know if the turians would have pushed quite that far; more likely they would have simply conquered humanity, dismantled their fleets, and then turned them into a client species akin to the volus. But I think the Council would have stepped in long before that could have happened. Either way, the war would not have ended because of anything done by the Systems Alliance.

Modifié par Randy1083, 14 février 2010 - 09:55 .

[Paeyvn]

Katarian wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Humans were the only ones with nukes, as nuclear weapons were outlawed by the Council.

You don't need nukes when you steer asteroids onto collison courses with planets, or you can fire a 20kg bullet at 1.3% of light speed that hits as hard as a conventional nuke.

I believe I remember reading somewhere that steering asteroids to planets is also highly illegal. Batarian terrorist group on X-57 didn't care, but if any council race tried that...bad things would happen.

[Doug84]

Paeyvn wrote...

Katarian wrote...

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

Humans were the only ones with nukes, as nuclear weapons were outlawed by the Council.

You don't need nukes when you steer asteroids onto collison courses with planets, or you can fire a 20kg bullet at 1.3% of light speed that hits as hard as a conventional nuke.

I believe I remember reading somewhere that steering asteroids to planets is also highly illegal. Batarian terrorist group on X-57 didn't care, but if any council race tried that...bad things would happen.

Well, terrorist groups tend not to care about laws. And dropping an asteroid on a planet is akin to a biosphere bomb - you'd cripple the biosphere for a few milliennia.

[Cascadus]

No one kid themselves. Humanity would of been VIOLATED. I have no doubt that the Systems Alliance's tactics and adaptive abilities would of won some battles, but here's the thing. The Turian Hierarchy has far larger numbers, far better ships (along with better designs, case in point, during the First Contact War, many Alliance ships were still equipped with massive windows in the bridges looking out into space, something that in a battle situation, is a huge structural weakness), and... oh yeah, dreadnoughts.
And let's get this straight. The turians, yes, aren't brilliant strategists, but they are extremely disciplined. They will not turn their backs and retreat, they will not surrender in a battle situation, if they're going down, they're probably damn well going to take someone else out with them. It's actually a blessing the Council intervened, because if the war did end, Earth would end up occupied by the turians, the humans would turn into a client race of the Council and put into the same position as the volus and groups such as Terra Firma and Cerberus would probably be incredibly popular within human space.

Modifié par Cascadus, 14 février 2010 - 10:35 .

[Doug84]

Tokala42 wrote...

Yeah, using anythig that can screw up a planet badly enough is illegal, Bio/Chem weapons, Asteroids...to be honest Nuclear weapons are classed as the lowest form of Mass destruction weapons in the codex in ME 1.

Yep - also why there are limits on the numbers of Dreadnoughts - the main gun alone has firepower that can produce a blast like 3 atomic bombs together.

[It IS Lupus]

MrVincent wrote...

"You Humans are all racist!"

*Turian Thanix Cannon to the Alliances face*

The Thanix was developed after Soverigns defeat, so we wouldnt need to worry bout that.

[Burdokva]

The analogy between the Soviet Union and Germany isn't entirely correct, as the SU had a larger population, resource base and (with the USA and Great Britain/Commonwealth allies) a huge economy.



A clash between humanity and the Turians would something like Italy or Japan - a regional power with a moderately large economy and military - taking on the entire resource and population of the Allies. Guess what the result would be...

[tmp7704]

Doug84 wrote...

To be fair, the Turians where being jerks "Look, their trying to activate a relay... OPEN FIRE!" "Erm, sir, do you want to try and talk to this new and unknown species first?" "No, obey my order!"

Considering the last time someone activated unknown relay the rachni poured out through it the "shoot first, ask questions later" approach could be rather justified.

Also, i'd imagine a talk with just discovered species could be pretty hard to pull off. Universal translators are nice and convenient idea, but doubt they get made with already built in rules of communication with species yet unknown.

Modifié par tmp7704, 15 février 2010 - 12:23 .