96 réponses à ce sujet

[Sailears]

Kileyan wrote...

Actually Joker did get you killed. The collector ship missed, but flying straight just isn't good enough for the best pilot in the galaxy. He had to dip, dive and power slide directly into the beam. Idiot:)

Yeah I wondered about that. Odd how he flies back into the beam after dodging.

[Cutlass Jack]

KorPhaeron11 wrote...

It could only fire at a maybe 24-30 degree angle otherwise it would hit itself.

About the engine thingy, they were already on, the normandy would have already picked them up, otherwise how did thoses guys know it was a ship and not an asteroid, the spike would have come when the ship got ready to fire and had used more energy from its reactors to power the weapon.

Like you said its not startrek and that ship isnt a cloaked Romulan Warbird, any ship in space has emisions(radiation from its reactor), the more reactor power it uses the higher the emisions.

The point being the collector ship could fire at any angle between it and the Normandy. Instantly. The beams travelled at the speed of light.  Joker had no idea whatsoever what the ship was capable of doing.

Which should be doubly obvious since the Normandy was the cloaked Romulan Warbird and the Collector ship saw it without problem.

Also, don't you think the gun batteries would be charged before they engaged the Normandy? Even if they had the miracle energy spike detector you think they had, it wouldn't have shown any changes til the guns discharged.

That the Normandy wasn't taken out on the very first shot was a testament to Joker's piloting skills. He had no idea what they were facing.

[Thompson family]

Joker's evasions not only bought the time needed to get the crew on the shuttles, the chase of the Normandy kept the collector ship from rounding up the shuttles and "collecting" the whole crew. Should Joker have left earlier? Sure, but the guy deserved the Star of Terra for staying with the ship so long.

[Kyero]

actually its your own dumb fault for going after him, DUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR this thread is a troll.

[Astetic]

Kileyan wrote...

Actually Joker did get you killed. The collector ship missed, but flying straight just isn't good enough for the best pilot in the galaxy. He had to dip, dive and power slide directly into the beam. Idiot:)

^^^
This

first time I saw it I started thinking "wtf mate, your in space, you could have gone any way but the way you went and survived... but instead you fly me straight into the massive collector death ray....."

I still think he kicks ass regardless, but I blame him for getting me killed and spliting up the wonderful crew I had just because he flew INTO the death ray and not away from it after it missed.

[Mikka-chan]

Joker wouldn't be able to make it to the escape pods without help. I do believe he can move- he does mention needing to take a ****** in ME1, after all- but he wouldn't have been able to after the shot. The ship's movement is no longer steady, there's blood on the floor (and various other liquids, I'm sure), fire around, people rushing by... how could he get through that? He can barely stand up on his own. And how horrible would it be to take three steps, fall, and then be trapped there lying on the ground (as once he falls, he won't be able to get up, with his legs as they are) in agony scratching at the ground in an attempt to move forward a few steps, watching the fire approach. Without help, Joker wouldn't make it- and I can't blame him for choosing to die in the cockpit rather then on the ground.
I can blame him for flying in to the death-ray, the ship's command having seemingly no protocol on how to get Joker out of there (seriously, he's the Alliance's best pilot: none of the techy's working on headsets near the Galaxy Map thought to grab him and drag him out? I know Pressly and the Ensign were dead, but everyone else?), and Shepard for deciding to head back there hirself and then to stop and gape at the explosion rather then just getting in the pod. Not to mention, considering Joker's syndrome... Kai and Ash are both likely heavier then him, and even fem!Shep can carry either Kai or Ash at an almost run for a few moments. Why the heck didn't Shep pick up the pilot and run down? Yes, you'd have to be very careful, but it's probably actually safer for him then that hobble-stumbling. Stupid move, Shepard.
...And while Kai's L2 biotics do make him pretty valuable (in order of the: 'why the hell are you not on the escape pod already, idiot?' deal), if it's Ash who's alive, why the hell doesn't Shep send Ash to go grab Joker? Girl's fast and smart: she'd get in there, grab the pilot, and run back to the escape pods, probably without gaping.
An option of "I'm glad you're safe, Joker, but after what happened on the first Normandy, you're too much of a liability for this mission. Get Cerebus to make you new legs, and you'll be the first on board (besides me!), but I need a pilot I can rely on to take care of himself." Or maybe Cerebus has some sort of anti-discrimination law and he then would sue you. Hm.
...Having said all that, I love Joker, blame him for nothing, and I was so happy to have him back. Hope he'll be there for ME3, too.

Modifié par Mikka-chan, 16 février 2010 - 11:48 .

[CmdrFenix83]

KorPhaeron11 wrote...

Vaemer-Riit wrote...

As I said in the other thread. The collectors are using a beam weapon, this is a light speed weapon and you CAN NOT see it before it hits.

Huh??  All light travels at the speed of light, are you telling me you cant see light??

This isnt a bullet, its a ray if light, but thats beside that point, im thinking that the normandy has sensors, and those sensors can pick up the power increase from when that ship is gona fire.

Joker makeing that corkscrew makes no sense, he should have dived or something. 

You're failing to realize a few things here.  Ship Weapons in the known Galaxy use fired projectiles.  They travel in a straight line that is aligned with the way the weapon and ship are facing.  They fire slower than a beam of light and are easily dodged in a craft as small and nimble as a frigate.  The Collector ship uses a new type of weapon only seen on Sovereign, and it *doesn't* fire in-line with the ship.  They can fire the beam at any angle from the front of the ship, as seen in the various cutscenes with the ship.  Standard evasive maneuvers are designed to be random dips and slight turns with the purpose of preventing an enemy from getting a lock onto your trajectory.

Sure, their sensors can report the buildup of power before the weapon fired, but it's *impossible* to track the trajectory of the attack before it's too late.  To be honest, Joker did damned well keeping the majority of the ship in-tact long enough for the crew to evacuate.  The only reason Shepard got spaced is because (s)he turned back to look at the beam after putting Joker into the escape pod.  If (s)he had just gotten in and fired the pod, they both would have been fine.  Shepard has no one to blame but himself.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 16 février 2010 - 11:44 .

[Tayah]

Whoever reaches Sheperd first tells you that Joker is "refusing" to evacuate meaning he's probably already refused the help of any nearby crew because he doesn't want to leave the ship and that's pretty selfish because he's risking their lives while they try to convince him to go and Sheperd's or whoever else comes to get him. The alliance attitude is certainly the 'don't leave anyone behind' mentality and Sheperd has that attitude regarding her (his) crew certainly as a paragon anyway. Its obvious that Shep follows the captain is the last to leave ship/abandon battlefield we've seen that throughout me1 and 2 so her/his reaction was inevitable... she has to get Joker out. Actually i think it had to be Shep because a) Joker would have refused anyone else and they'd have had to do some damage to get him to leave and that would be sending someone else into danger when Shep is already trying to save her/his crew. So yes, Joker was responsible for failing to evacuate and that cost Shep her life...



And yet I don't hate Joker. Most of the time I like him but I do think there should have been some acknowledgement of the reason I died in the first place. Honestly what I really wanted was to give him a data pad with evacuation procedures in big bold letters in the event of a disaster and tell EDI in front of him that in the event of such an emergency she was to lock him out of the controls to ensure he had no choice but to comply. Actually it would have been fun to see how both reacted to that.

[locowolfie]

Its not the fact that joker "flew" into the beam that made him responsible. Its the fact that he is not evacuating that gets you killed. However after thinking about it some more i think its a dual edged sword. Joker has always been a cocky guy with an atitude problem. I just think you should have had the option to leave him. If your not going to listen and do your own thing fine but Dont drag me with you it just didnt make sense, espesialy if your a renegade. Soldiers have to follow orders, if not people will die everyone who has ever had any kind of command experience will tell you.



And about the whole beam thing FTL weapons cant be "dodged" it says so in the codex. You can try and percent an unstable target and hope for the best. By the time that the shot is picked up by sensors its already to late.

[Aradace]

locowolfie wrote...

when you look at it the idiot got you killed i never liked the guy anyways but ever since ME2 i hate the dude cuz he got me killed and now im stuck working for cerberus

*EDIT*

also i find it funny that he is the only one you cant kill in the end-game i really wanted to kill the idiot

You're honestly blaming Joker for YOU going back to save HIM and getting spaced?  Wow...ummm...Well, I can say one thing for certain, there IS an idiot in this situation but it certainly ISNT Joker....Guess that makes it you eh?

[locowolfie]

Aradace wrote...

locowolfie wrote...

when you look at it the idiot got you killed i never liked the guy anyways but ever since ME2 i hate the dude cuz he got me killed and now im stuck working for cerberus

*EDIT*

also i find it funny that he is the only one you cant kill in the end-game i really wanted to kill the idiot

You're honestly blaming Joker for YOU going back to save HIM and getting spaced?  Wow...ummm...Well, I can say one thing for certain, there IS an idiot in this situation but it certainly ISNT Joker....Guess that makes it you eh?

the idiot is you for responding like a 12 year old and seccondly. if you take the time to read on you would have read that its not so much the fact that you go back thats debated but the fact that you have to cuz he's not folowing orders that  "forces" you to go back. i would have left him to die but you cant in the game so yes he gets you killed.

[aaniadyen]

Kileyan wrote...

Actually Joker did get you killed. The collector ship missed, but flying straight just isn't good enough for the best pilot in the galaxy. He had to dip, dive and power slide directly into the beam. Idiot:)

It says in the codex that he swerved into it accidentally because he broke his leg.

[Aradace]

locowolfie wrote...

Aradace wrote...

locowolfie wrote...

when you look at it the idiot got you killed i never liked the guy anyways but ever since ME2 i hate the dude cuz he got me killed and now im stuck working for cerberus

*EDIT*

also i find it funny that he is the only one you cant kill in the end-game i really wanted to kill the idiot

You're honestly blaming Joker for YOU going back to save HIM and getting spaced?  Wow...ummm...Well, I can say one thing for certain, there IS an idiot in this situation but it certainly ISNT Joker....Guess that makes it you eh?

the idiot is you for responding like a 12 year old and seccondly. if you take the time to read on you would have read that its not so much the fact that you go back thats debated but the fact that you have to cuz he's not folowing orders that  "forces" you to go back. i would have left him to die but you cant in the game so yes he gets you killed.

Still, actually blaming him is a little shortsighted no matter what regardless of what your OPINION is.  I agree that leaving him should have been an option but the fact remains that Shepard made that "choice" to go back for him albiet that it was part of the "story".  Blaming someone else for a voluntary action is just pointless whether it's part of the story or not.

[locowolfie]

to: aradace

I have to agree with something that you said and that is yes i suppose ill have to blame bioware for writing such a poor opening sequence. ill change the topic to bioware gets you killed

Anyways facts are that he forces you to go back and grab his ass. I whould just have liked to leave him there seccondly he has been an arrogant guy from the start of ME1. Doing his job and wanting to get medals and what not for it. Its not the way any soldier acts, and as far as im concerned he is a poor soldier. So by refusing to listen to your orders of abandoning the ship and a myriad of comments from ME1 i say he gets you killed.

Modifié par locowolfie, 17 février 2010 - 10:43 .

[locowolfie]

aaniadyen wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Actually Joker did get you killed. The collector ship missed, but flying straight just isn't good enough for the best pilot in the galaxy. He had to dip, dive and power slide directly into the beam. Idiot:)

It says in the codex that he swerved into it accidentally because he broke his leg.

really wich codex is that? (name please)

[Aradace]

locowolfie wrote...

to: aradace

I have to agree with something that you said and that is yes i suppose ill have to blame bioware for writing such a poor opening sequence. ill change the topic to bioware gets you killed

Anyways facts are that he forces you to go back and grab his ass. I whould just have liked to leave him there seccondly he has been an arrogant guy from the start of ME1. Doing his job and wanting to get medals and what not for it. Its not the way any soldier acts, and as far as im concerned he is a poor soldier. So by refusing to listen to your orders of abandoning the ship and a myriad of comments from ME1 i say he gets you killed.

Now a title change would be appropriate..."BW gets you killed" would seem to fit better in this regard and to which I would agree completely in this case for the reasons you just stated associated with "Poor writing"  Then again, we have to look at it from the perspective of: If BW didnt write us getting killed in the opening scene, we might not have become the cyborg/biosynthetic awesomeness that we are now 

[aaniadyen]

locowolfie wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Actually Joker did get you killed. The collector ship missed, but flying straight just isn't good enough for the best pilot in the galaxy. He had to dip, dive and power slide directly into the beam. Idiot:)

It says in the codex that he swerved into it accidentally because he broke his leg.

really wich codex is that? (name please)

Not certain, honestly. I simply heard it somewhere on this forum. *shrugs*

[SarEnyaDor]

There is no codex that says his leg snapped and he swerved into the beam.

[John Aadnoey]

Sorry, but find this thread rather stupid. Its not Joker's fault, if he did leave his post at once, what makes you sure that you still wouldn't be killed? if you change just a little of the beginning of the attack, everything after it should also be expected would have changed..

Shepard needed to die for two years, so he/she was out of the picture while the council screw's/gets screwed over, and the reapers rebuild their biological toys..

Modifié par John Aadnoey, 17 février 2010 - 02:43 .

[Frozenmojo]

Well he does get you killed twice, can't pull you up after you blow the collector base.



My favorite ending everyone should play it.

[Barzahl]

Honestly, the fact that you die in the Collector attack (and later get better) is probably the only reason why any of the crew survived at all. The Collectors were there for you specifically, and with you dead and sucked out into space, they didn't need to start shooting down escape pods in order to make sure that they got you.



Or maybe I'm overthinking a convenient plot device and should recite the MST3K Mantra (It's just a show, I should really just relax!)

[TobiasRieper]

I don't care that he occasionally ****s up, he's a damn good pilot and one of my Shep's best friends.



He's okay in my book.