61 réponses à ce sujet

[Vikotoru]

lessthanjake9 wrote...

Vikotoru wrote...

1) Of course, that's pretty simple
2) How do you know it's 100%, have you take screenshots, shot account? were you at the same distance while shooting to the normal - frozen enemy.

Sorry but I need more than a "Im pretty sure" evidence to accept a 100% damage increase, my testing is against this, I can be making mistakes but Im taking screenshots, counting red bar's pixel lenght etc..

I edited my post. It is actually SLIGHTLY less than 100%. It is from eyeballing, yes, but I explained above what I saw.

And you say "thats pretty simple" to #1, but I was surprised at how long into the animation it took for the extra damage to be applicable. The mech had to be falling over for the damage increase to work. I suspect that is why you got such low damage increase numbers in your tests, because many of your shots were done at time when no damage increase was occuring.

There's a method very usefull against the YMIR mech, use cryo before it starts shooting the MG, when cryo freezes the mech definitively the burst fire will be interrupted, that's how I know I can start shooting to test because sometimes, even frozen, the mech doesn't fall

Modifié par Vikotoru, 16 février 2010 - 10:03 .

[lessthanjake9]

Vikotoru wrote...

lessthanjake9, it's a 100% with the widow; Thank you for your post

New Testing method: Same mech, Image editing;
at 1920x1080 a widow shot takes 50-52 pixels from the red bar
against a frozen target it takes almost 102pixels so: 100% more damage

This method seems to be far more accurate even with the primitive methods I'm using

Hmmm. With the Predator, it was very slightly, but still perceptively below 100%.

You also mentioned the heavy weapons not working. It is possible that heavy weapons are not given a lot of bonuses. OR it is possible that the cryo bonus depends on the weapon used.

[Vikotoru]

lessthanjake9 wrote...

it is possible that the cryo bonus depends on the weapon used.

This is very likely, I am pretty busy with work right now so I cannot test anything till the weekend but seeing the difference with predator-widow-grenade_laucher I'm inclined to think like you

[WillieStyle]

lessthanjake9 wrote...
 it is possible that the cryo bonus depends on the weapon used.

Even if this were the case, I doubt it would mean the difference between 95% and 100%.
Why would they make such a tiny difference in damage bonuses for each weapon? Hardly seems worth the time to code it.
The more likely explanation is that it does 100% extra damage but that either you made a slight mistake in estimating the Mech's health bar, or there are slight inconsistencies in the way health bars are rendered in game. 

Modifié par WillieStyle, 16 février 2010 - 11:53 .

[ShadowWolf_Kell]

Have you tried fire effects once it's frozen? I'm curious to see if it's 150-200% extra damage.

[Eric Fagnan]

All enemies take 100% more damage from regular weapons while frozen or in ragdoll. You have to wait until the enemy is completely frozen before getting this bonus, which usually takes only a couple seconds.



This also means that enemies ragdolled by biotics or other powers take more damage from regular weapons.

[WillieStyle]

Thanks Eric, that's good to know.

On the one hand, it makes squad cryo ammo a lot more appealing.

On the other hand, since Biotic abilities get the same bonus, and don't take a couple seconds to activate, it makes Cryoblast somewhat less appealing.

[Grand_Commander13]

Do they could as "ragdolled by biotics" while being lifted in the air by Pull, or only after it deposits them on the ground?

[WillieStyle]

This also means that Pull is extra amazing because of its long duration and short cooldown.

Jacob is awesome after all.

Though with my Soldier, I might be better off shooting at floating enemies than warp-exploding them to do AoE damage.

Does the "writhing" animation from Reave count as a rag doll effect?



Also, if ALL weapon damage gets a bonus from the rag doll effect, what does Warp Ammo do? Does it get an extra special bonus?

Sorry for all the questions, but this info opens up so many possibilities.

[thisisme8]

Awesomeness.

[JaegerBane]

Eric ****nan wrote...

All enemies take 100% more damage from regular weapons while frozen or in ragdoll. You have to wait until the enemy is completely frozen before getting this bonus, which usually takes only a couple seconds.

This also means that enemies ragdolled by biotics or other powers take more damage from regular weapons.

Presumably that's why husks seem to just die as soon as they're pulled?

[rumination888]

Eric ****nan wrote...

All enemies take 100% more damage from regular weapons while frozen or in ragdoll. You have to wait until the enemy is completely frozen before getting this bonus, which usually takes only a couple seconds.

This also means that enemies ragdolled by biotics or other powers take more damage from regular weapons.

Does the stagger effect(ie. from melee) count as ragdolling?

[Murmillos]

I would like to see cryo do a 5-15% bonus damage to all protection... but that's just me being greedy.

[DirewolfX]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Do they could as "ragdolled by biotics" while being lifted in the air by Pull, or only after it deposits them on the ground?

I'd guess it applies to lifted by pull.  Usually when I use pull on an enemy one of my squad mates kills them really fast with a regular shot.  Double damage would explain it.

[Average Gatsby]

Eric ****nan wrote...

All enemies take 100% more damage from regular weapons while frozen or in ragdoll. You have to wait until the enemy is completely frozen before getting this bonus, which usually takes only a couple seconds.

This also means that enemies ragdolled by biotics or other powers take more damage from regular weapons.

Woo hoo. Now we know. Although... any chance on any additional bonus by using fire on a frozen enemy like the loading screen says?

[Vikotoru]

Eric ****nan wrote...

All enemies take 100% more damage from regular weapons while frozen or in ragdoll. You have to wait until the enemy is completely frozen before getting this bonus, which usually takes only a couple seconds.

This also means that enemies ragdolled by biotics or other powers take more damage from regular weapons.

Thank you Eric, I love this subforum!

[tangofish]

Average Gatsby wrote...

Eric ****nan wrote...

All enemies take 100% more damage from regular weapons while frozen or in ragdoll. You have to wait until the enemy is completely frozen before getting this bonus, which usually takes only a couple seconds.

This also means that enemies ragdolled by biotics or other powers take more damage from regular weapons.

Woo hoo. Now we know. Although... any chance on any additional bonus by using fire on a frozen enemy like the loading screen says?

It would also be nice to know if force impact (throw, concussive shot, slam) is multiplied differently against frozen targets as well. Frozen krogans certainly seem to go flying when hit even with a level 1 concussive, which never gets old.

On an aside, is anyone else being as amused as I am by the continuing trend on these forums of people claiming X is useless, only to be consistently and resounding proven wrong?

[Average Gatsby]

changed the name to see if there is in fact a cryo/fire synergy

[We Tigers]

Good to have the facts. The damage was definitely noticeable, but a confirm of 100% is extra solid. I just started an infiltrator on Hardcore and this may change up the build a bit; I had been planning on ignoring cryo, but squad cryo might be worth it to help me save the Widow shots for the big enemies.



Also, my inner 10-year-old loves how Eric's name gets censored when quoted.

[rumination888]

tangofish wrote...

On an aside, is anyone else being as amused as I am by the continuing trend on these forums of people claiming X is useless, only to be consistently and resounding proven wrong?

Since Cryo Blast takes a couple seconds for its damage bonus to take effect(coupled with using a global cooldown, requiring time to actually hit its target, and only effective against non-protected enemies), yes; yes it is useless.

But feel free to keep thinking its useful.

[baller7345]

rumination888 wrote...

tangofish wrote...

On an aside, is anyone else being as amused as I am by the continuing trend on these forums of people claiming X is useless, only to be consistently and resounding proven wrong?

Since Cryo Blast takes a couple seconds for its damage bonus to take effect(coupled with using a global cooldown, requiring time to actually hit its target, and only effective against non-protected enemies), yes; yes it is useless.

But feel free to keep thinking its useful.

It isn't useless if it lets my engineer go on berserker runs because I can lock one enemy down with the drone, and then freeze at least 2 since the cooldown is less than the freeze duration.  It is one of the most useful powers that an engineer has.

[rumination888]

baller7345 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

tangofish wrote...

On an aside, is anyone else being as amused as I am by the continuing trend on these forums of people claiming X is useless, only to be consistently and resounding proven wrong?

Since Cryo Blast takes a couple seconds for its damage bonus to take effect(coupled with using a global cooldown, requiring time to actually hit its target, and only effective against non-protected enemies), yes; yes it is useless.

But feel free to keep thinking its useful.

It isn't useless if it lets my engineer go on berserker runs because I can lock one enemy down with the drone, and then freeze at least 2 since the cooldown is less than the freeze duration.  It is one of the most useful powers that an engineer has.

If you're only doing potshots from cover, and can't finish the enemy off, then it might be useful(but theres a another, bigger issue there than cryo blast being useful).
For anyone that can down an enemy in a couple seconds, you're better off using your cooldown for something else. For example, an Incinerate, which will immediately stop an enemy in place for a couple seconds and also damage them. Or an Overload, which, against synthetics, will stop them in place for a couple seconds and also damage them.

Modifié par rumination888, 17 février 2010 - 02:00 .

[baller7345]

rumination888 wrote...

baller7345 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

tangofish wrote...

On an aside, is anyone else being as amused as I am by the continuing trend on these forums of people claiming X is useless, only to be consistently and resounding proven wrong?

Since Cryo Blast takes a couple seconds for its damage bonus to take effect(coupled with using a global cooldown, requiring time to actually hit its target, and only effective against non-protected enemies), yes; yes it is useless.

But feel free to keep thinking its useful.

It isn't useless if it lets my engineer go on berserker runs because I can lock one enemy down with the drone, and then freeze at least 2 since the cooldown is less than the freeze duration.  It is one of the most useful powers that an engineer has.

If you're only doing potshots from cover, and can't finish the enemy off, then it might be useful(but theres a another, bigger issue there than cryo blast being useful).
For anyone that can down an enemy in a couple seconds, you're better off using your cooldown for something else. For example, an Incinerate, which will immediately stop an enemy in place for a couple seconds and also damage them. Or an Overload, which, against synthetics, will also stop them in place for a couple seconds and also damage them.

You can do that and it will stop them but not long enough to actually accomplish anything.  The main reason I wouldn't use incinerate is becasue it won't kill it in 1 shot but 1 cryo blast and its basically over for the enemy.  On synthetics overload makes a stronger case because it stops them longer than incincerate however it still doesn't hold them in place as long as cryo blast.

Oh well to each their own just saying how I use it.  That may not appeal to everyone but that is why we have other powers.  Anyway it would be boring if everyone used the same exact strategies.

[Grand_Commander13]

DirewolfX wrote...

I'd guess it applies to lifted by pull.  Usually when I use pull on an enemy one of my squad mates kills them really fast with a regular shot.  Double damage would explain it.

I suspect as much which is why I asked; I've had the same observations you've had.

[lessthanjake9]

Hmmm, interesting. It must have looked like slightly below 100% to me just because I'm playing on an extremely low resolution (ie. below 800x640 because otherwise my game won't recognize usable items).

Anyways, that's also interesting about ragdolling effects. I suspected such a thing because pulled enemies just seem to die absolutely immediately.

Modifié par lessthanjake9, 17 février 2010 - 05:12 .