82 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

blank1:



I am not familiar with the numbers, or where you're getting them. I based my preferences and observations on test encounters. The Blue Suns Disable Signal mission is my preferred location for weapons testing.

[blank1]

Roxlimn wrote...

blank1:

I am not familiar with the numbers, or where you're getting them. I based my preferences and observations on test encounters. The Blue Suns Disable Signal mission is my preferred location for weapons testing.

http://masseffect.wi...eth_Pulse_Rifle -- 3.7 damage per shot... the GPR is a peashooter.
http://masseffect.wi...i/M-76_Revenant -- actually out damages the Vindicator, due to that weapons 0.625 second delay between bursts.
http://masseffect.wi...iki/M-8_Avenger

Modifié par blank1, 17 février 2010 - 03:03 .

[Roxlimn]

You ARE aware that that is a wiki page you're referencing, right?

[blank1]

You really just don't want to believe me lol.

[Roxlimn]

blank1:



I'll believe your numbers are accurate if you can refer me to a game file - then I'm going to try finding out why I'm observing better performance with the GPR vs. Shields. You can't convince me that I'm not seeing the performance I'm seeing. You might convince me it's a glitch, but it is what it is.

[D.Shepard]

Thank you for your comments, fellow Mass Effect fans. There Revenant is making my walkthrough on Insanity easier and sometimes even easy. Combined with Adrenaline Rush and Inferno Ammo it keeps quite many enemies. Sometimes I need some effort in taking shields and biotic barries down but it's nothing complicated.

I never tried the Vindicator on Insanity. Since we get in during the first mission I tended to consider it not advanced like the Revenant and the Collector Assault Rifle.

The Collector Assault Rifle seemed to exert  a greater "physical force" on the target but I think it was due to head shots. Enemy appeared to be stopped in their track but I can obtain the same result by shooting at the enemies' chest with my Revenant.

I should try the Vindicator against Geth or Collectors.. Maybe against Geth during Legion's loyalty mission.

[Athenau]

Again, the GPR does not do 3.7 damage per shot. It does the same damage per shot as the avenger, before resistance modifiers.

Modifié par Athenau, 17 février 2010 - 12:52 .

[ODST Steve]

From personal experience on Insanity the Revanant. The Vindicator is good but I have my Mantis for long range.

[RighteousRage]

I do vindicator + widow because I'm a weenie and like to hide back and one shot guys

And yes, I beat the game fairly easily on insanity with this method (Garrus recruitment mission was death)

Basically what it comes down to is a I prefer accuracy over total damage output, and the vindicator can nearly be used as a pistol/sniper rifle

Modifié par RighteousRage, 17 février 2010 - 01:46 .

[blank1]

Athenau wrote...

Again, the GPR does not do 3.7 damage per shot. It does the same damage per shot as the avenger, before resistance modifiers.

There's a chart grabbed fom a .ini file that has the weapon damage, which is how the Wiki got its info. Unless there's some more recent info that I'm missing... yes, the GPR does 3.7 damage per shot.

Unless it can be proven to be false, then I think this is just the way it is.

[blank1]

Roxlimn wrote...

blank1:

I'll believe your numbers are accurate if you can refer me to a game file - then I'm going to try finding out why I'm observing better performance with the GPR vs. Shields. You can't convince me that I'm not seeing the performance I'm seeing. You might convince me it's a glitch, but it is what it is.

It's called the power of suggestion. let me go dig up that chart that's hovering around the forums.

EDIT:

www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/944907/58941

Modifié par blank1, 17 février 2010 - 03:05 .

[Roxlimn]

blank1:



It's sure as hell not. The data chart is interpreted. It's not actually referring directly to file data. It's better to perform a test, really. There is nothing interpretative about a burst from a Vindicator doing a specific amount of damage to Shields, which you can clearly quantify because the HUI gives you a bar for it.

[Looy]

Roxlimn wrote...

blank1:

It's sure as hell not. The data chart is interpreted. It's not actually referring directly to file data. It's better to perform a test, really. There is nothing interpretative about a burst from a Vindicator doing a specific amount of damage to Shields, which you can clearly quantify because the HUI gives you a bar for it.

That data is from a file, some of the values will be interpreted yes but dmg won't be, its not a derived value.

I have tested it, quite a lot. Its called playing the game and using both weapons. Whatever bonus versus shields the GPR has is offset by its ******-poor damage, wheras the Vindicator only has a slightly lower modifier which is made redundant by the fact that it does roughly* triple the damage of the GPR.

* Vinidcator has about 2 bursts a second, which is 6 shots: 6*37*1.25 = 277.5
 GPR fires about 16 shots a second: 16*3.7*1.35 = 79.92
277.5 / 79.92 = 3.47

[Roxlimn]

Looy:



Good. What are your testing parameters and location and target? If you tested it, then it stands to reason that you played it and tested it against a standard target in a controlled environment. I'd like to recreate the test that convinced you that the GPR is useless.

[Looy]

Roxlimn wrote...

Looy:

Good. What are your testing parameters and location and target? If you tested it, then it stands to reason that you played it and tested it against a standard target in a controlled environment. I'd like to recreate the test that convinced you that the GPR is useless.

I shouldn't need to test it, but if it'll prove it it you...

...brb.

[_Dannok1234]

Nos astra - Commercial Spaceport. Location in the mission is, right after you find the Scimitar and have access to weapon locker, difficulty Insanity. 2 Eclipse Initiates, (after taking out the mech).
With the Geth Assault rifle it takes 30 shots from point blank range to kill one Merc with full barrier (melee distance.)(time about 3+ seconds)
With the Vindicator it takes 3 bursts or 9 bullets. (time taken 1,25-1,4)
Avenger 30 shots. 


Char was is Vanguard Champion with Miranda in the party. No ammo mods.

Try if you like, but it's pretty darn obvious that the Vindicator is vastly superior in damage to the Geth Assault rifle.

Edit : it's 3 bursts from the Vindicator, might not need every one of those bullets to hit. Might be some "overkill" going on.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 17 février 2010 - 07:44 .

[Roxlimn]

Looy:



I'm not asking you to test it. Presumably, you already did. I'm asking for your parameters so I can replicate the test you did on my own.



Dannok1234:



Thanks. I'll test them both there. Note that I'm not testing to a kill end-point. That is not the point of the Geth Pulse Rifle. The Pulse Rifle is used for stripping Barrier defenses. My test point is usually how fast either gun strips Shield and Barrier defense.

[_Dannok1234]

Well in that case you can pretty much just divide the number by half. But the Vindicator takes away the barrier in the first 3 shots. So thats a moot point. Christina posted in the Game Data thing. Geth rifle does 1.35 to shields/barrier. Vindicator does 1.25.

It's simply not possible for the Geth rifle to be better then any other weapon for anything at all. The Tempest for example would be far superior for shield busting, so would the Vindicator.

[Roxlimn]

Dannok1234:

Hm... That's unusual. I don't recall the Vindicator being that powerful early in the game. What other modifiers have you got? Is Miranda at full Cerberus Leader? Do you have +30% Assault Rifle Damage and Assault Rifle Penetration as well?

Also, tested the GPR extensively against the Tempest because that was the closest analogue.  It's better at short ranges when the Tempest's recoil doesn't materially affect accuracy.  Farther than 10 meters or so, the GPR's accuracy makes it better than the Tempest for stripping Shields.  Tested it on Blue Suns side mission and Tali's loyalty mission.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 17 février 2010 - 07:55 .

[_Dannok1234]

Having tried them all a few times now, the only assault rifle that is clearly superior to Tempest and Shuriken is the Vindicator. The Collector has too slow a fire rate to keep up.

Interesting thing is that for point-blank fighting the Shuriken will kill faster then the Tempest. But due to inaccuracy it's not better for range. (Also note on the pc if you click very fast it will fire full auto. That doesn't work on the xbox I'm told)

[_Dannok1234]

It doesn't matter what upgrades I have or what Miranda has as all the assault rifles will benefit from that. But Miranda is Cerberus leader. I'll check if I have a save right before this one to check up on the upgrades.

Edit: Had 3/5 Assualt rifle damage, accuracy and penetration. Miranda as Cerberus Leader.
Keep in mind here that while the Geth rifle might be slightly more accurate in burst fire then Tempest burst fire. Vindicator is more accurate then both of them. There really is no contest at all, it's better in every way to the other assault rifles. (not counting the Revenant(sp))

Modifié par Dannok1234, 17 février 2010 - 08:04 .

[Roxlimn]

Dannok1234:



Actually, I was of the impression that even the Vindicator isn't as good as the Tempest up close when you can really unload everything into headshots. It's nearly as strong as a shotgun, as far as I can tell. I've taken down krogan face to face with a Tempest - found it harder to do with the Vindicator. Ammo issues, too.



Knew about Shuriken firing full auto. That's usually how I use it, since I didn't see much point in firing in bursts for medium range work unless you have no other options (and you usually do).

[_Dannok1234]

The Vindicator doesn't really come close to the shotguns in terms of damage. Thats old data from before Christina revealed that shotguns fire 8 bullets not 4. The lowest damage shotgun which is the Scimitar does 20.4*8 in one shot. While the Vindicator does 36.8, so a burst is only 110 vs 163,2 from the scimitar. However it's probably (easier)more consistent when it comes to getting headshots for full damage, as the spread of the shotgun might make a bullet or two miss.

Damage from the tempest is lower then the Shuriken which has higher damage then the Tempest. Both of which do less damage in the same time frame as the Vindicator. Same thing here again, it's more accurate and thus better suited to get all the bullets into the head of your enemy.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 17 février 2010 - 08:10 .

[Looy]

Save the Crates Mission



Insanity



God Mode on to avoid dieing



10 seconds of constant firing at melee range (including reloads, 2 extra seconds per missile hit) into a YMIR mech.



GPR left the mech with about 25% shields, Vindicator left it with 75% armor.

[Roxlimn]

Looy:



Thanks. Will perform test when I have access to my desktop.