36 réponses à ce sujet

[zaarin_2003]

*character stands there doing nothing... then dies*

That's it, I've had enough.

Rant:

For the upteenth time I've lost a battle and only because the AI in this game is broken. Its terrible! What is the point of setting tactics if they're not followed? Characters forget who they were attacking if they fall over or even for no reason at all, they ignore orders, they just stand there doing nothing, Alistair knocks people over, only to allow them to stand up and not taking advantage.

Whats with the heavy anti-mage bias? Enemies will happily run past your whole team to single out the mage, which, given they die if they're sneezed on, is infuriating!

'Overwhelm' - do I even need to explain what is unfair with this 'ability'? Wolves could take over the world if only they could be bothered - don't worry about the Darkspawn, worry about the wolves and their impossible to counter attacks.

Please fix this!

[Noobius_Maximo]

Pause combat, issue order.

[RangerSG]

You need to pause and give orders. And when one of your PCs gets overwhelmed, you should instantly look for ways to immobilize the beastie doing the overwhelming. They don't get additional attacks if they're not able to move.

[EccentricSage]

I personally agree with OP that the companion tactics need improovements.

Alistair.... ugh.... USE THE POLTACE USE THE POLTACE I SAID USE THE FN POLTACE!!!   Alistair Dies.  This only happens on ocasion, but this IS actually when I pause and issue direct comands.  Alistair seems to have some odd glitch.  I also noticed that if I have him on Agressive, but have them on 'hold position', even if I give him a direct order to chase and atack an enemy that is fleeing, he'll just stand there sometimes.  Zevran doesn't do that, he'll chase his target down.  And Sten is just plain slow.  He'll have 15 arrows in him from a couple archers before he gets a realy decent swing of his weapon in.  I waste even more poltaces on him than on Alistair.  They both have to be leveled up pretty high before they are of any use.  Early on I resorted to an all rogue and mage team for the entir Brecelian forest area because sten and Alistair tend to spend a lot of their battles on their backs getting their faces torn out. 

People need to remember that the tactics are supposed to exist for a reason.  If the characters aren't following the protocals you set for them, even on agressive, then something needs to be FIXED.  I LIKE this game, but we shouldn't make excuses for the devs when they are turning out all these dlc and an expansion, but there are still unadressed flaws in the gameplay.  I'm not trying to hate on them.  They need to make money.  But they have to be held to their responsibility to turn out quality product.

Zevran, I found, was the character I had the least trouble with when it comes to tactics.  aside for the ocasional reminder to use a poltice or poison his weapon, or syncing up his special moves with my rogue's special moves, he'll usually need the least babysitting of the lot in a big clusterF type battle. 

As for the enemies singling out your mage... I think that's smart AI.  That's a tactic I use when ambushing enemies.  Take the mage by surprise and take them down quickly because they can realy controll the playing field, buff your enemies, and generally just make everything harder.  Take them out first and I can more easilly overpower and outmanuver enemies.

In order to prevent AI from targeting your mages, equip them with items that have the efect 'decrease hostility', and for mages who use mainly offensive magic, use robes and items that have an increase to your health regeneration as well as defence and armor rating.  When comencing a battle, have Wynne, for example, hang way back and make sure she ether doesn't atack, or only uses the basic atack.  Set her for ranged, or use 'hold position' to keep her out of harm's way.  hiding her behind objects untill you realy need her is a good idea if your space is limited.

For a character like Morrigan, set her to ranged, and manually controll her when you want to use close range attacks or an atack that requires precice positioning like Cone of Cold.  If you want to use her more agresively, then have your warriors and rogueas deal the first blows to the enemies before you have her engage them, so that it will at least take awhile before they atack her.  You can use your characters to position the enemies in a line or cluster with your allies all to one side, making it easy to set her up for cone of cold.  Then have her fall back to ranged.

You just have to put forth the effort to adapt to different AI strategies and situations. 

Personally I like to send Zev and my rogue ahead in stealth with the other members in hold position out of sight.  That way we can pick a major threat like a magic user and disable them quickly right as the other members are called to atack.  I LOVE actually assasinating oponents like that.  Usually can let the AI take over for the most part if we get our timing right. 

[Wolfenxxx]

The game doesn't play itself with the exception of a cut scene, otherwise its in your hands.

[Sloth Of Doom]

You are complaining because your mage gets targeted? So I suppose you just ignore emissaries, do you?



Overwhelm can be broken it a multitude of ways. Or wait..do you not use crowd control with your party either?



foad.

[Mlai00]

In the PC version of the game, as long as you know how to layout the Tactics, the characters never ignore commands or set-up tactics.

Except the main hero. He doesn't auto-follow the tactics if you have him highlighted. This is because he is you, and you're supposed to move yourself around when you're highlighted.

[RBCharger]

Wow. Easy fix. You have the Hold button clicked. Your people aren't moving because you are telling them to hold positions. Sometimes I see things go like that and after the battle I take off and all the party stay behind. Duh. Head slap myself.

[EccentricSage]

oops, nevermind

Modifié par EccentricSage, 15 février 2010 - 06:48 .

[Aeto Alessos]

EccentricSage wrote...
Alistair.... ugh.... USE THE POLTACE USE THE POLTACE I SAID USE THE FN POLTACE!!!   Alistair Dies.

Oh man. That is brilliant, i don't know whether to quote you in my signature for that one.

[Qutayba]

People's tastes are different, but I think DA hits the balance right. The original Dungeon Siege had the AI do almost everything. You didn't even have to click on targets like in Diablo! It was a fun game, but it really played itself (I actually played it again recently just to listen to the fantastic musical score.). With Bioware games, the AI takes care of basic situations, but tough battles require more strategy. Much more fun that way, in my opinion. WoW has spoiled us into thinking we ought to be able to plow through everything with AoE. I like that CC, health maintenance, and positioning matter in Dragon Age.

[slaveydavey]

Have you disabled the tactics? That might over-ride commands.

[zaarin_2003]

I take the points regarding the AI singling out Mages - suddenly all the Fighter's feats which get enemies to go for them at the expense of the rest of your team make sense. :-p



But to the people who say "the game doesn't play itself" or "pause. Issue command"; have you actually played the game? I'm a Baldur's Gate veteran and would rather have no automation at all - but if you tell a character to attack someone ("pause. Issue command" yep, like that), then I don't want that character to randomly forget who he/she was attacking, simply because their target has run away from them to go for my mage, or has been knocked more than 6 feet away from them. Its just dumb.



One interesting thing I read here, is yes, I do have hold enabled. I thought that if you don't then you can't spread your party out during combat and they walk around in a big clump?

[Alraymr]

Make sure you don't have hold selected. If a character is on hold he won't follow a person that gets out of reach. And yes, knocking someone down puts this person out of reach.

[nubbers666]

just do what i did and cheat imortal cheat rules some times lol or killallhostiles

[0LunarEclipse0]

zaarin_2003 wrote...
Rant:


Whats with the heavy anti-mage bias? Enemies will happily run past your whole team to single out the mage, which, given they die if they're sneezed on, is infuriating!

'Overwhelm' - do I even need to explain what is unfair with this 'ability'? Wolves could take over the world if only they could be bothered - don't worry about the Darkspawn, worry about the wolves and their impossible to counter attacks.

Please fix this!

It's called agro, learn how to reduce agro and use tanks to pull.

In response pause issue orders.

[Babaghanouj]

The OP's complaint about tactics is valid and spot on. Tactics do NOT work much of the time. Particularly the ones set to attack and often healing. I've watched Sten let his health drop to nothing without bothering to slam down a health pot. Nor will he attack anyone if left to tactics. Even when I tell him to attack he won't always follow through. And forget it if his target goes after someone else, he'll just stand there and watch it run off to pound on my mage. Tactics are in desperate need of a patch. I can't even figure out a pattern of when they'll work and won't work.



Complaint #2: Um. Don't you try to kill enemy mages FIRST? I fail to see how this is unfair. Just having a tank doesn't automagically mean everyone will focus on him/her.



As for overwhelm...it's unfair when the mean wolfy bites you? Lock it down then. Morrigan can do overwhelm, I'll bet it's not unfair when YOU use it. Shield Bash the wolf when it's got someone pinned. These last two issues are problems only you can fix because they are not broken. War isn't fair, but I guess you'd rather it stacked in your favor.

[Jaulen]

I've been having issues with setting tactics and not having the companions follow the tactics.

Like the TP said, not with Zevran, he doesn't seem to have a problem with tactics and I only have 6 tactic slots for him. Found if I want a warrior to use a health pot as a tactic I have to have it in #1 or 2 slot, otherwsie.....I'll have to take over for them.



Now Wynne is another problem. Stupidly gave her AW talent and a sword in second wepon set (no skill points yet in AW talent tree). Set her to be a healer, and all her tactics for healing (since I only had two health potions with), and bam, she randomly decides to whip out the sword and go in and start hacking at an enemy. And she wasn't even being attacked! That was the last time I used AW.



But I do hate pausing prior to a battle, or even mid battle to set/reset tactics only to have the companions stand there not doing anything.

[RBCharger]

Sometimes you have to just stop and think about why things are happening. I see Leliana charge into battle first thing while Alistair is running to the left or right setting up position. So I stop and look at the Leliana tactic page and see that she is set up to attack Alistair's target. So apparently Alistair chose a target, so why is he hanging back and not attacking? It takes some tweaking but you can eventually get everyone to act pretty much normal after a while.

As far as the hold button goes, you might have to start a battle with hold on but after it is underway, take it off. For example, fighting the high dragon or Flemeth you can say everyone attack and actually take control of Alistair and run him up to the dragon - switch to an archer or mage and Alistair will run to you. You say "what the . . . ?, GET BACK THERE, ALISTAIR!" You have to actually have to stay on Alistair until he actually gains some agro.

[EccentricSage]

zaarin_2003 wrote...

I take the points regarding the AI singling out Mages - suddenly all the Fighter's feats which get enemies to go for them at the expense of the rest of your team make sense. :-p

But to the people who say "the game doesn't play itself" or "pause. Issue command"; have you actually played the game? I'm a Baldur's Gate veteran and would rather have no automation at all - but if you tell a character to attack someone ("pause. Issue command" yep, like that), then I don't want that character to randomly forget who he/she was attacking, simply because their target has run away from them to go for my mage, or has been knocked more than 6 feet away from them. Its just dumb.

One interesting thing I read here, is yes, I do have hold enabled. I thought that if you don't then you can't spread your party out during combat and they walk around in a big clump?

Exactly.  Besides, if you can only control one person at a time, but their tactics aren't working, then your battle is going to take a half hour because you're going to be pausing every 5 seconds to comand everyone.

I think they should patch it to where, when in 'hold position' if you set a character to agressive they should atack anything near them, and be able to move far enough to continue atacking an enemy they just knocked down.  If you have them set with the tactic that they should atack an enemy who atacks a certain allie, this should also over ride the hold position.  This would fix much of the trouble I have with the combat tactics.  I realy don't want my allies running to my side when I had them set up in very strategic positions.

I will mention that it helps if you give all your warrior and rogue characters ranged weapons and the tactic that they should switch to ranged when their enemy is out of range for mele atack.  There have been battles where my party completely took out the enemies with ranged, or where only one character needed to go in for mele to hold them back while the rest continued with ranged.

The health poltace issue is a real problem.  I always put poltaces and potions as top priorities for my characters, but the farther along we get in the game, the less apt they are to follow the tactics.  For some reason basic atack seems to over ride the non agresive tactics like poltaces a lot.  I can't turn my back for five seconds without someone dying because they didn't use their poltaces.  And like I said, there are times when I direct order certain characters and they still don't take the direct comand.  it seems like I have to have Alistair or Sten under player control not only while I select their action, but also while I wait for the comand to be exicuted.  And Sten is slow as hell, so this is a real issue.

[EccentricSage]

Qutayba wrote...

People's tastes are different, but I think DA hits the balance right. The original Dungeon Siege had the AI do almost everything. You didn't even have to click on targets like in Diablo! It was a fun game, but it really played itself (I actually played it again recently just to listen to the fantastic musical score.). With Bioware games, the AI takes care of basic situations, but tough battles require more strategy. Much more fun that way, in my opinion. WoW has spoiled us into thinking we ought to be able to plow through everything with AoE. I like that CC, health maintenance, and positioning matter in Dragon Age.

I agree with you on this, definetly.  It's just that certain characters truly don't act out comands sometimes.  I should be able to paus, issue comands for everyone, then unpause, and everyone should carry out those comands even if they aren't the character I'm curently directly controlling.  But sometimes Alistair and Sten's basic atack seems to overide the direct order they were given, or they will stand there and do nothing for precious seconds before ether finally acting on the comand or else going back to default atacking.  The hell?  It gets to a point where I get tired of having to reload save points and restart battles because these glitches got them killed while I was in direct control of Morrigan or Zevran, directly possitioning them to optomise atacks.  I shouldn't have to pause the game every five seconds and spend an hour on a single big battle. 

Other than this glitch, I do think the combat is well balanced.

[Godeshus]

Didn't read all the responses, so please forgive if I'm repeating.



I agree with much of the OP, however here is the best solution that I found. There is a mod that gives 25 tactic slots right off the bat. Use that, and you can do a LOT to fix the mess that the AI puts you in.



Here's an example. Let's say your setting tactics for sten and your PC is a mage.



Hero -> being attacked by melee attack ------->pommel strike

Enemy ---->status ----->incapacitated ---------->attack



Because you have so many slots, you can set these kinds of tactics many times over. It's possible to get very precise control of what your companions do in specific situations.



-Godeshus

[Phonantiphon]

Didn't read it all but since I actually started pausing, looking, and directing - I have a had a LOT more success. Plus you do really need to explore the tactics.

Yeah my characters sometimes end up standing about but it just means you have "get your hands dirty" a bit more to sort things out. Personally I think that's a good thing, I don't want it to be automated to the point of no interaction...

[nmal015]

Ive got to say, when i first started playing i used to get frustrated, blame the game, blame the tactics. Why are they just targeting my mage !!! $^@% !!!

But really, once youve played through once or twice you learn its simply your fault. The tactics system may not be flawless but its certainly capable of doing what you need it to do if you know what your doing.

Modifié par nmal015, 16 février 2010 - 10:47 .