Aller au contenu

Photo

ME2 Adept class general discussion: feedback/suggestions for ME3


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
9 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Guanxii

Guanxii
  • Members
  • 1 646 messages
The adept class has undergone one heck of a transformation between ME1 and ME2...to quote the Beatles some changes forever not for better, some of the great things about ME1 are gone and some remain and whilst it's unfair to generalise and say that the Adept class is fundamentally broken on some level I think we agree that the class has had a pretty rough ride through the transformation in ME2.

I personally think the Adept class needs less of a drastic overhaul more of a slight regression. For me  it was always my favorite class in ME and I feel that seemingly slight tweaks that have been applied broadly to tighten/heighten the gameplay mechanics of other to classes when combined together have really acted  to confound the experience of playing as an adept this time in ME2. Regardless of the difficulty level I've found that you generally run into the same problems. Who knows maybe you have a different perspective, if so i'd like to hear it. I'll like to gather your thoughts and experience whilst playing the adept class so that moving forward the guys at BioWare can get a clear picture of what works well and what doesn't and where they need to focus their time.

I'll get the ball rolling with mainly a few suggestions as per opening remarks but feel free to post anything you like.

Here goes... in ME2 only being able to use warp 85% of the time (reave bonus unlockable notwithstanding) because of the new emphasis on AI shielding/barriers sucks all the fun out of using biotics as it makes the other powers almost entirely worthless except for about 15% of the time in my experience. It's especially frustrating given that it takes up to 12 secs? for warp to recharge.

1) Maxed-out (heavy/wide/field specialised) Throw, Shockwave and Singularity, etc should do damage to enemy shields AND barriers in addition to warp but to a lesser extent simply to compensate for warp's rather excessive recharge time.

2) In order to accommodate for these changes I'd suggest making the 15% or so (red) health hp component much less susceptible if not impervious to biotic attacks much more as it was in the first game while they are flailing around in a pull field or singularity - and draining that last remaining health bar should be achieved with purely gunfire blasts... whilst simultaneously limiting Biotics just to pistols and heavy weapons to balance the class.

Although many will probably disagree and want to keep SMG's but I think with these tweaks it would be become too easy and it's a necessary trade-off.


3) Universal cool-downs are irritating and ruin all the spontaneity and tactics involved. In ME1 I got much more use out of all my powers because I was always using whatever was available at that moment in time. Now that you can only use 1 thing on the power wheel at a time I'm just spamming Warp between the recharge time.

4) Throw Field does not work as described. I loved the idea of blasting multiple targets with it but in my experience it works poorly in practice probably because it's damage/force just too weak in comparison to heavy throw.

5) Biotic Barrier should be an integral power to Adepts along with Warp and Singularity, etc and I'll explain why and before anyone starts about Sentinels  - I'm not giving up half of my biotics. I missed the god-complex inspiring moments of Adepts in ME1. Now i'm constantly reduced to cowering behind a box waiting for warp to recharge like a broken soldier and here's why.

The big problem is because of Barrier's enormous cool-down time combined with universal cool-down it basically wears off before long before I can use my other powers with any protection so with or without universal cool-down I feel that Barrier cool-down needs to be treated independently of the other cool-downs on the power wheel and then there will be far less time spent hiding behind crates.

6) Finally more custom hot-keys for the Xbox 360 version in addition to LB and RB. So for example when holding down LT why not have combos like LT+X or LT+Left = shockwave, LT+B = pull, etc.

Modifié par Guanxii, 15 février 2010 - 12:32 .


#2
MonkeyLungs

MonkeyLungs
  • Members
  • 1 912 messages
Adept was my favorite in ME2 although I only played on Veteran with my Adept. (Did Insanity with my Soldier).



I used Singularity alot and shredded shields with my SMG then would throw in a Warp. FUN.



Throw Field made any encounter with melee types a breeze. Husks, where? Oh yeah flying thattaway.



However, having played Insanity I definitely got the impression using my Adept on that difficulty would not have been very fun, although I didn't think Insanity was all that fun anyway, I just wanted to see if I could do it.



Further, I just recently ... ie. in the last week replayed ME1 as an Adept. First time playing Adept in ME1 (and it won't be my last for sure). I have to say that Adept was even more fun in ME1 due to being able to use so many powers, and use them one after the other. I kept my armor skills and gun skill low for most of the game, only upping my Assualt Rifle near the end. i maxed all my Biotics, except Stasis. I went Nemesis. I had a freaking blast. More powers, and being able to use them more often really does equal more fun.



All that said, ME2 is still a better game in my opinion but it just needs a little tweaking still. Adepts rule in both games and I will definitley be playing an Adept again in both games.



in fact since ME2 came out I really have no desire to play anything other than ME1 and 2. I now start my characters in 1 and carry themt hrough to 2. Keeps both games more fresh and is a really fun experience playing through both games in succession.

#3
thisshistsux

thisshistsux
  • Members
  • 28 messages
Yeah I agree about the universal cool downs, it sucked not being able to deal out the powers one after the other. Also it seemed like singularity would only work if it made direct contact with the enemey, sometimes it would hit right next to enemies and wouldn't effect them, or someone would run right next to it wouldn't suck them up. WTF?

#4
Duduris

Duduris
  • Members
  • 89 messages
I recently started an adept playthrough on Insanity, it's fun so far the only thing that annoys me is the global cooldown.

#5
Guanxii

Guanxii
  • Members
  • 1 646 messages

thisshistsux wrote...

Yeah I agree about the universal cool downs, it sucked not being able to deal out the powers one after the other. Also it seemed like singularity would only work if it made direct contact with the enemey, sometimes it would hit right next to enemies and wouldn't effect them, or someone would run right next to it wouldn't suck them up. WTF?


I certainly agree with you about Singularity it did feel pretty hit and miss at times and infuriating when you spawn it right beside an npc and they are just standing there next to giant level 4 dark energy field like  -yeah
 big wup wanna fight about it?

I'm glad to see other Adepts on the same page about universal cool-down. It works well for other classes going back to what I was saying earlier but it puts a serious dampener on the fun of playing a biotic when you apply it with a broad stroke to all classes especially considering that biotics spend much more of their time on the power wheel.

It made no sense to me that wide Singularity held (4) less npcs than heavy singularity (6).

I think one of the more obvious main differences between ME1 and ME2 is that at level 50 you had scope for plenty more powers and that will probably come with ME3 but given that ME2 has enormous trade-off potential which for me came down to reave vs barrier as the bonus 7th power I would have liked to have been able to have chosen which 7 biotics I wanted to take with me into a second play-through.

My dream biotic power-wheel would be in no particular order:

Heavy Barrier
Wide Reave
Unstable Warp
Dominate
Shockwave
Wide Singularity
Pull Field 

#6
catabuca

catabuca
  • Members
  • 3 229 messages
I'm another who really doesn't like the global cooldown.

My 'canon' manShep from ME1 (and into ME2) is an adept. I had so much fun playing as a biotic in ME1. Some say it was overpowered, but ALL the classes I played as were 'overpowered' as you got the good gear and leveled up a bunch, so I don't think it was a game breaker. Not for me, at least. It was fun - that's always the most important thing for me when playing a game.

I had the same problem with Singularity - at first I thought I must be doing something wrong, but it's so different than in ME1. I spawned no end of them only for the enemy to be stood less than a foot to the side of it merrily shooting away unaffected. It came into its own when faced with hoards of husks, but was a head-scratcher much of the rest of the time. 

And to be honest, I really don't understand why shielding/armor etc would stop biotics throwing someone, or knocking them off their feet, or pulling them in the air. The damage done would be less, sure - that's obvious - but to have no effect? It's totally and utterly illogical to me. That's a game-breaker, imo.

I still enjoyed playing as an adept in ME2, probably because of the ability to curve attacks, and with the new combat system (in terms of it feeling like a tps, better aiming, cover etc) it felt more tactical. However,  I think they lost something when they overhauled it so completely. And that's a damn shame.

#7
Atheist Peace

Atheist Peace
  • Members
  • 83 messages

Guanxii wrote...

The adept class has undergone one heck of a transformation between ME1 and ME2...to quote the Beatles some changes forever not for better, some of the great things about ME1 are gone and some remain and whilst it's unfair to generalise and say that the Adept class is fundamentally broken on some level I think we agree that the class has had a pretty rough ride through the transformation in ME2.

I personally think the Adept class needs less of a drastic overhaul more of a slight regression. For me  it was always my favorite class in ME and I feel that seemingly slight tweaks that have been applied broadly to tighten/heighten the gameplay mechanics of other to classes when combined together have really acted  to confound the experience of playing as an adept this time in ME2. Regardless of the difficulty level I've found that you generally run into the same problems. Who knows maybe you have a different perspective, if so i'd like to hear it. I'll like to gather your thoughts and experience whilst playing the adept class so that moving forward the guys at BioWare can get a clear picture of what works well and what doesn't and where they need to focus their time.

I'll get the ball rolling with mainly a few suggestions as per opening remarks but feel free to post anything you like.

Here goes... in ME2 only being able to use warp 85% of the time (reave bonus unlockable notwithstanding) because of the new emphasis on AI shielding/barriers sucks all the fun out of using biotics as it makes the other powers almost entirely worthless except for about 15% of the time in my experience. It's especially frustrating given that it takes up to 12 secs? for warp to recharge.

1) Maxed-out (heavy/wide/field specialised) Throw, Shockwave and Singularity, etc should do damage to enemy shields AND barriers in addition to warp but to a lesser extent simply to compensate for warp's rather excessive recharge time.

2) In order to accommodate for these changes I'd suggest making the 15% or so (red) health hp component much less susceptible if not impervious to biotic attacks much more as it was in the first game while they are flailing around in a pull field or singularity - and draining that last remaining health bar should be achieved with purely gunfire blasts... whilst simultaneously limiting Biotics just to pistols and heavy weapons to balance the class.

Although many will probably disagree and want to keep SMG's but I think with these tweaks it would be become too easy and it's a necessary trade-off.


3) Universal cool-downs are irritating and ruin all the spontaneity and tactics involved. In ME1 I got much more use out of all my powers because I was always using whatever was available at that moment in time. Now that you can only use 1 thing on the power wheel at a time I'm just spamming Warp between the recharge time.

4) Throw Field does not work as described. I loved the idea of blasting multiple targets with it but in my experience it works poorly in practice probably because it's damage/force just too weak in comparison to heavy throw.

5) Biotic Barrier should be an integral power to Adepts along with Warp and Singularity, etc and I'll explain why and before anyone starts about Sentinels  - I'm not giving up half of my biotics. I missed the god-complex inspiring moments of Adepts in ME1. Now i'm constantly reduced to cowering behind a box waiting for warp to recharge like a broken soldier and here's why.

The big problem is because of Barrier's enormous cool-down time combined with universal cool-down it basically wears off before long before I can use my other powers with any protection so with or without universal cool-down I feel that Barrier cool-down needs to be treated independently of the other cool-downs on the power wheel and then there will be far less time spent hiding behind crates.

6) Finally more custom hot-keys for the Xbox 360 version in addition to LB and RB. So for example when holding down LT why not have combos like LT+X or LT+Left = shockwave, LT+B = pull, etc.


I love the adept in ME2, and your comment about it being 85% warp does not come close to matching my experience. On insanity i am using singularity/pull at least as much as warp.

1. Throw/shockwave already damage barrier. It's unnecessary for them to damage shields as well. Complaining that biotics dont damage shields is like complaining that overload doesn't damage barrier in my view.

3. I prefer the cooldown system from ME2, but thats personal preference. If they did change the cooldown system back the adepts abilities would have to be substantially nerfed.

4. Not really sure where you are coming from here, of course heavy throw is going to do more damage than its AoE version but it still has it's uses.

6. This idea has my whole hearted support.

#8
jadetempest

jadetempest
  • Members
  • 68 messages
I agree, the global cooldown kind of removes the whole combo-ing appeal of playing biotics - I guess you can combo with another biotic in the team but it skews party balance.

#9
CatatonicMan

CatatonicMan
  • Members
  • 560 messages
I found it odd that they implemented the ammo system in such way that it 'encouraged' (if not forced) the player to use multiple weapons - especially considering that such a method defies all logic in the way the ammo system is supposed to work - while at the same time implementing a biotic system that actively discourages the use of more than 1-2 powers.

It is really rather confusing.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 15 février 2010 - 01:22 .


#10
cpz01

cpz01
  • Members
  • 45 messages
Play An adept on insanity And love it. Sure it was tough going at first but by about level 7-8 was able to hold my own and by about 15 with the right team was clearing our mobs faster then any other class I had played.

M build is (on iPhone so might not get it right)

heavy warp

wide sing

pull field

the tali bonus power that works like overload

bonus wep skill I took was shotgun though I pretty much only use smg

adept relies on a good team build so it's important to make sure you take the right team to mission that will complament your short commings. For instance if I am up against a load of geth zaeed with squad disrupter ammo is always with me as overload and my smg maks short work of shields allowing for warp, singularity warp finisher.

Oh and although alof of ppl wonder what the point of having both singularity and pull is... Having he tow allows you to lock down two group at the same time which has saved my bt manny times (ESP. With charging krogan)