48 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

I have always said that I enjoy playing with a full party on the hardest difficulty with as little exploiting as possible much more than I enjoy soloing the game on the hardest difficulty because soloing requires abusing the flaws of the game. Here are the flaws which I consider game breaking and refer to as cheesing. Many people will say these arent game flaws at all. Its just a matter of opinion and you should play the game however you enjoy it. Feel free to add to this list if you like

Cheese Moves

1. Kiting (attacking from range, running away while abilities recharge, rinse and repeat)
Why this is cheese: Because most encounters have enemies which are too slow to catch you, and dont have enough intelligence or ability to stop this tactic.
Cheese factor: 5, not total cheese but a little bit cheesy and I do use this tactic myself in moderation

2. Playing a max dexterity character
Why this is cheese: Because nobody can hit you
Cheese factor: 9

3. Playing a 100% spell resist character
Why this is cheese: Because no spell can hit you
Cheese factor: 7

4. Using ranged attacks from areas where you cannot be hit back
Why this is cheese: Obvious, an example being sitting behind the barrels on first ogre boss
Cheese factor: 10 basically cheating

5. Wearing prenerf Blood Dragon Armor or other overpowered DLC or mod items
Why this is cheese: Character becomes a walking god
Cheese factor: Varies alot depending on power of items. This is one cheese move which I actually do just because I like my characters to look good. I use black templar armor, shadow warden armor, and runic grey warden armor. They are all mods, and all have exceptionally good stats comparable to the best items found in the game. They can easily make the game too easy, as can many of the DLC items. For the 3 armor mods I am using Id give the cheese factor an 8, the game is just too easy with them. I love the look though.

6. Having more than one mage in the group
Why this is cheese: Mages are extremely powerful
Cheese factor: 4

7. Using potions, especially if self made in unlimited quantities
Why this is cheese: Unlimited health and mana defeats many gameplay elements
Cheesefactor: 7 for only using found potions, 10 for using self made potions

8. Playing an arcane warrior who is nearly invulnerable
Why this is cheese: Is it really fun to turn on a bunch of sustains, cast a few spells, and just auto attack everything while being nearly invulnerable?
Cheesefactor: 3, not really cheese just not my cup of tea

9. Constantly reloading until fights go just right
Why this is cheese: the game really wasnt meant to be solod and a crushing prison or similar debuff can end the fight early if you havent cheesed yourself to 100% spell resistance.
Cheesefactor: 3, not really cheese, but is it fun to constantly reload a fight until you resist that game ending crushing prison or get that perfect paralysis explosion off?

10. Forcefield abuse
Why this is cheese: This spell can be abused in many ways
Cheesefactor: 5

11. Pulling only 1 or 2 members from a group when the developers intended the entire group to engage you
Why this is cheese: The encounter was designed to be faced in full force, not in segments. Ser Cauthrien solo anyone?
Cheesefactor: 5, many will argue that this is just using good tactics. I think its kind of cheesy, and find huge battles more exciting anyways.

Effective Tactics Which I Dont Consider Cheese

1. Attacking high priority targets first

2. Setting your party members up with a good set of tactics, with high priority maneuvers on top

3. Using line of sight to avoid ranged attacks

4. Pausing the game to give orders (I personally hate excessive pausing though)

5. Playing without potion use

6. Playing with 1 mage or less in your party

7. Positioning your party in favorable positions for combat

8. Game knowledge

Feel free to add your input

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 15 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[weredog717]

Having more mages isn't cheesing, because it depends what they specialize in, and my oghren has died plenty of times w/ dragon armor

[Sabresandiego]

I only gave having more than 1 mage in the group a cheese rating of 4. Its not really that unfair, its just that mages are so powerful that it makes the game easier. And if you blood dragon armor is version 1.1 its not nearly as powerful as the prenerf version 1.0.

[Pubknight]

Every post of yours I read seems to criticize the game, or the way people choose to play it.

If you hate the game so much, why bother posting about it?

If you hate the way other people choose to play it... why would you even care?

[Sabresandiego]

I do criticize the game a lot. If I didnt like the game I wouldnt play it. It is an awesome game, even though it has serious gameplay flaws. Its the only single player games Ive enjoyed in probably 10 years (I normally only play multiplayer games). But yes I do criticize the game alot because it has glaring flaws despite being an awesome game.

[tetracycloide]

Sanctimonious jackass factor: 10

[Ronin 3000]

tetracycloide wrote...

Sanctimonious jackass factor: 10

^You can tell this guy's a cheeser. 

Modifié par Ronin 3000, 15 février 2010 - 06:21 .

[tetracycloide]

Ronin 3000 wrote...
^You can tell this guy's a cheeser. 

Reloading all it takes.  Who isn't?

Modifié par tetracycloide, 15 février 2010 - 06:31 .

[Oak Tree Leaf]

What about modded armor with no mages in your group!!

Less cheesy? D:

Modifié par Oak Tree Leaf, 15 février 2010 - 06:32 .

[dkjestrup]

I disagree with most of that to be honest.

[TBastian]

Cheese isn't bad. There are only exploits and not exploits. Everything in-between is up to the someone's discretion.
If you have to be strict about it then the greatest cheese, by far, are Reloading and Using Foreknowledge. Pausing constantly may be cheesy, but it only makes up for the fact that you are controlling a game character manually. It is only an exploit if you are telepathic, if you have ways of connecting your mind to the processor's or if you have superpowers that allow you to morph inside the game.

Modifié par TBastian, 15 février 2010 - 07:45 .

[FuzzyLumkins]

Heh, i think this list is pretty cool.

[sylvanaerie]

Actually the only two on the list I have used is the potions thing (hey they DID put herbalism in the game and provided the Dalish with unlimited elfroot so I am not sure it should be listed as a cheese but JMO). And the having 2 mages in the group. This is only when I play a mage myself. Wynne is always healer/support and my mage is DPS. I don't use mods or have uberarmor, just what is provided in the game itself (with DLC). I actually find the mage thing less crazy powered than having Alistair tank and using a DPS warrior. I cut through mobs crazy fashion with one of those.



Of course, I am not very good with video games and usually play on Easy or Normal mode. Its probably a heck of a lot different in Nightmare mode.

[AlgolagniaVolcae]

Any nightmare playthrough is loaded with cheese, it's the only way to win and anyone who says they can do it without potions is either using the hugely broken AW class or telling half truths(since they probably had to reload a dozen times per fight to avoid using potions, or used bombs which are still technically classified as potions).

Modifié par AlgolagniaVolcae, 15 février 2010 - 01:16 .

[DJ0000]

I don't abuse the game mechanics but I have to say there's some points you make that don't make any sense what so ever in my opinion.

1 Fair enough

2 Not cheesing, a build type

3 If you can get the items why not? It's not like you can make your whole party have 100% resist.

4 How is this different to positioning in favourable conditions, that's what you'd rather do in a real battle, but I understand your point.

5 If you can get the items why not use them? You paid for them.

6 Why not have multiple mages? It's your party, just because you don't like it don't critisize others.

7. This is just stupid. They are there to be used, crafting is a skill. Just because you can do the gme with no healing doesn't mean everyone can. Seriously, this is just condesending.

8. So you shouldn't pick a spec because it's too powerful. It's your harecter, play the way you want.

9. Well if everyone dies you have to reload.

10. It's there to be used, tactics not cheese.

11. Ever heard of crowd control.

And how is using line of sight as a tactic different to no. 4

[dwanedibbley]

[soteria]

Any nightmare playthrough is loaded with cheese, it's the only way to win and anyone who says they can do it without potions is either using the hugely broken AW class or telling half truths(since they probably had to reload a dozen times per fight to avoid using potions, or used bombs which are still technically classified as potions).

All I'll say is that's not an accurate description of how I play at all.  Bombs couldn't be "technically" classified as potions in any sense. One comes from herbalism, and you drink it, and the other comes from poisons, and it blows up. Now, I can't prove I'm not reloading dozens of times, but on the other hand the amount of evidence you have that I *do* reload a lot is nil.  And, I've never even played an arcane warrior... so nyah!

Modifié par soteria, 15 février 2010 - 03:39 .

[beancounter501]

Disagree with most. Except #10 & #11. Forcefielding your tank after a taunt is beyond cheese. That is mega cheese. Just open the console and start typing kill. And #11 is also considered major cheese in most RPG's. Pulling is lame.



I would add setting up traps for monsters that spawn in as cheese too. Like in BG2 when you could surround Firecrag the dragon with traps.

[AlgolagniaVolcae]

The amount of evidence suggesting you beat the whole game without a single potion is alot of nil also, the problem with videos are that they are only small snippets of gameplay(ideally the best example of your abilities with the worst ending up on the cutting room floor). So short of me actually looking over your shoulder as you play, there is no way to prove it without a doubt.



If anyone could do it without potions, it'd be a few people from these boards who do post videos, etc. Until I see it for myself though I don't have to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

[soteria]

The amount of evidence suggesting you beat the whole game without a single potion is alot of nil also, the problem with videos are that they are only small snippets of gameplay(ideally the best example of your abilities with the worst ending up on the cutting room floor). So short of me actually looking over your shoulder as you play, there is no way to prove it without a doubt.







If anyone could do it without potions, it'd be a few people from these boards who do post videos, etc. Until I see it for myself though I don't have to give anyone the benefit of the doubt.

Actually, 20+ videos, including the final boss and (as far as I know) pretty much every encounter people consider to be hard, is not "nil." You could make an argument that I'm using potions on all the easy fights, and I guess I don't have a response to that--except to laugh. Since the sum of your argument is "I won't believe anyone can beat the game without potions until I stand over their shoulder and watch for 40+ hours," I guess there's really no point in continuing this.



You don't have to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, but your position does look pretty comical from where I'm sitting.

[DJ0000]

beancounter501 wrote...

Disagree with most. Except #10 & #11. Forcefielding your tank after a taunt is beyond cheese. That is mega cheese. Just open the console and start typing kill. And #11 is also considered major cheese in most RPG's. Pulling is lame.

I would add setting up traps for monsters that spawn in as cheese too. Like in BG2 when you could surround Firecrag the dragon with traps.

Okay now I understand what was meant by abusing forcefield. I thought he meant using on allies who are about to die. Fair enough. You could argue that it's a tactic but definately abusing AI.

[lightstryker]

If you're playing the game the way you want to and you're truly enjoying it then does it matter whether it's "cheesing" or not? And cheesing is in the eye of the beholder, anyways.



On that note, I dont see using what the game gives you (such as potions) and certain spells cheesing. Then again, I dont have any interest in posting videos on how I've done nearly impossible tasks by beating the game without using potions, without reloading, etc. To each his/her own, I suppose.

[Mlow44]

woah woah wait a minute here. my first playthrough as an arcane warrior mage, i had all my defense toggles on (all fully invested in skill points) and was wearing full Wade's Superior Dragon Plate Armor, and a shield. all my resists were at 75%, and my armor was at 62. I got tossed around by two yellow-text golems for about 5 seconds before they finished me off. this was on Normal difficulty. after that, i never bothered with the defense toggle that drains mana like crazy again.

I constantly need two mages with healing magic in my party at all times or party wipe is only about a minute away, if that long. and even then i need to use potions because sometimes the healing spells don't cool down in time to save one of my party members.

So my question is: are we playing the same game!? is my game bugged or something?

[Sabresandiego]

wow 62 armor? I am playing a harder version of nightmare mode with about 41 armor and my character feels nearly invulnerable, especially with my pocket healer/buffer and good heal tactics setup.

[Mlow44]

Sabresandiego wrote...

wow 62 armor? I am playing a harder version of nightmare mode with about 41 armor and my character feels nearly invulnerable, especially with my pocket healer/buffer and good heal tactics setup.

yeah, i'm seriously starting to wonder if my game is bugged or something. i die way too easily for the stats i'm shown, in any playthrough i've done. never bothered to try nightmare cuz i figured if i'm having this much trouble with normal, then i'd never get through a single fight on nightmare. i literally have to micromanage every few seconds of battle, cuz even when i have it set so that my mages cast heal on a teammate when they're at 50% health, it's usually too late to keep them standing. so i have to pause every few seconds or so to make sure everything's going my way.