41 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

sylvanaerie wrote...
 I find both are pretty equal for DPS, but for some reason Zevran gets this Leroy complex and wants to go off to find more mobs on me (and no hes not on aggressive, not sure whats screwy with his AI).

Possibly because someone in the mob is attacking your PC.  Zevran's tactics are set to attack whoever is attacking the main character, and Leliana's are not.  This means he sometimes can go chasing after an archer that is shooting at you.

[SusanStoHelit]

Allison W wrote...

Hey, I think her accent is cute.

Though admittedly I grabbed the respec mod just to drag her into dual-wielding so she could be my bodyguard.

EDIT: Also, doesn't Lethality let you use Cunning instead of Strength for bow damage, not just melee damage? I know its ginormous crit boost is melee-only.

First, Leliana's voice actor is actually French, for a character from Orlais (which is based on medieval France) so the accent may or may not be cute, but it's real. Zevran's voice actor is using a fake Spanish accent (he doesn't speak Spanish) for a character whose home city is based on medieval Venice, which is in Italy, not Spain. So the OP doesn't like real accents but has a thing for fake ones.

Secondly, yes - a Lethality/ Cunning rogue does use cunning for bows instead of strength, just the same as a melee one. So I always run Leliana that way. As a cunning archer specced into Ranger/Bard, using Song of Courage, she rocks. Between party buffs, utility, bow damage, and pet melee damage she is anything but weak.

[Edited for clarity.]

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 15 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[Nonvita]

Yeah I use Leliana as a Lethality/cunning archer. It means her archery isn't *quite* as strong, but cunning directly affects her Bard songs and it gives her greater utility with disarming traps and locks. One rank of deft hands and then pumping cunning means there aren't too many locks/traps she can't undo.



Zevran I don't really use for lockpicking and other "rogue" skills (but then I usually use him when I'm also a rogue, so I take care of it). Still, properly specced he's a beast in combat. I would make him a dex rogue over cunning because his defense goes through the roof so almost nothing can hit him. Give him some good armor/weapons, make sure his tactics are optimized, and always keep him behind the target and he'll destroy them. If he seems weak, then you've made him weak.

[ejoslin]

Though I'm not one of those amazing people who can solo nightmare, I can duo most things on hard (but not all) with Zevran and a warrior PC -- also with Alistair and a PC melee rogue. And things die almost as quickly as they do with a full party. As long as those mages can be taken out immediately, all is good.

Edit: This does take a lot of potion use, however.  And even more patience.  I still don't get how people can solo nightmare.

Second edit: I guess the point of this is saying, yes, rogues really ARE good.  Just read up some if you're having problems with either Leliana or Zevran.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 février 2010 - 09:52 .

[Addai]

Nonvita wrote...

Yeah I use Leliana as a Lethality/cunning archer. It means her archery isn't *quite* as strong, but cunning directly affects her Bard songs and it gives her greater utility with disarming traps and locks. One rank of deft hands and then pumping cunning means there aren't too many locks/traps she can't undo.

Zevran I don't really use for lockpicking and other "rogue" skills (but then I usually use him when I'm also a rogue, so I take care of it). Still, properly specced he's a beast in combat. I would make him a dex rogue over cunning because his defense goes through the roof so almost nothing can hit him. Give him some good armor/weapons, make sure his tactics are optimized, and always keep him behind the target and he'll destroy them. If he seems weak, then you've made him weak.

Zevran is the better archer than Leliana with other things being equal.  I made some comparisons between him and my cunning rogue PC.  He was doing comparable damage to my PC.  They were at the same range and with comparable bows, no special talents activated for either of them, no particular ranged buffs on either, PC running Song of Valor, both with Lethality.  My PC was averaging 40 or 41 damage per shot, Zevran just behind her with 39 or 40.  Guaranteed that a rogue PC has higher stats than Leliana, given your Fade bonuses.

PC:  dex 42, cun 57, str 33 using Falon Din's Reach (9.60 damage with +2 damage)
Zevran: dex 50, cun 23, str 24 using Mage's Eye (9.60 damage with +4 attack)

If there's a flaw in my logic somewhere, by all means point it out, but it looks to me like Zevran is just as effective a Leliana at ranged, and probably more.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 février 2010 - 10:06 .

[ejoslin]

Leliana gets the best bow in the game, which makes a huge difference. If you have Far Song, you'll be close.

[Nonvita]

Addai67 wrote...

Zevran is the better archer than Leliana with other things being equal.  I made some comparisons between him and my cunning rogue PC.  He was doing comparable damage to my PC.  They were at the same range and with comparable bows, no special talents activated for either of them, no particular ranged buffs on either, PC running Song of Valor, both with Lethality.  My PC was averaging 40 or 41 damage per shot, Zevran just behind her with 39 or 40.  Guaranteed that a rogue PC has higher stats than Leliana, given your Fade bonuses.

PC:  dex 42, cun 57, str 33 using Falon Din's Reach (9.60 damage with +2 damage)
Zevran: dex 50, cun 23, str 24 using Mage's Eye (9.60 damage with +4 attack)

If there's a flaw in my logic somewhere, by all means point it out, but it looks to me like Zevran is just as effective a Leliana at ranged, and probably more.

Oh I don't doubt that he is. But I think that's because of his higher strength/dex, which makes for a stronger archer. I plan to use him as an archer in my next playthrough, actually (I want to try a 3-person archer rogue party), and I'm sure he'll easily outdo Leliana who I'll keep cunning based. But, that said, Zev is the better combatant because he's more optimized for combat. Leliana is the better all-purpose rogue because she's more optimized for that role. I can understand why more people use Leliana because most people only use rogues for lockpicking (such a shame, they're seriously monsters in combat), but I've always found Zev a good addition to my party.

As for their accents, well, I've never had a problem with them. What does it matter if Zevran's accent isn't actually Italian? Antiva isn't supposed to be Italy, just have an Italian/Spanish *flare*. I think his voice suits him fine and becomes better the more I hear it. I find a lot of the Orlesian characters' accents far more grating (whether or not they're authentic), although Leliana's is fine.

[ENCHANTMENTSSS]

Lel in a Dalish Drakeskin Armor outfit picking locks is good enough for me!!! LOL

She's tech in CQB, Close Quarters Combat, shootin arrows from afar and not gettin bunched up with the rest of everybody else. Archer special attacks useful when set in the tactics boxes properly. Captivating song tech in skeleton/dragonling mob scenarios. Disarming traps gravy.

Now only if she could join in the fun at the Pearl we'd be all set.

[TripLight]

ENCHANTMENTSSS wrote...

Lel in a Dalish Drakeskin Armor outfit picking locks is good enough for me!!! LOL
She's tech in CQB, Close Quarters Combat, shootin arrows from afar and not gettin bunched up with the rest of everybody else. Archer special attacks useful when set in the tactics boxes properly. Captivating song tech in skeleton/dragonling mob scenarios. Disarming traps gravy.
Now only if she could join in the fun at the Pearl we'd be all set.

Harden her else she will not come:whistle:

[ENCHANTMENTSSS]

TripLight wrote...

ENCHANTMENTSSS wrote...

Lel in a Dalish Drakeskin Armor outfit picking locks is good enough for me!!! LOL
She's tech in CQB, Close Quarters Combat, shootin arrows from afar and not gettin bunched up with the rest of everybody else. Archer special attacks useful when set in the tactics boxes properly. Captivating song tech in skeleton/dragonling mob scenarios. Disarming traps gravy.
Now only if she could join in the fun at the Pearl we'd be all set.

Harden her else she will not come:whistle:

Too... many... dirty.... responses... can't... post.... else... Bioware.... ban..... me....

[Addai]

Nonvita wrote...
I can understand why more people use Leliana because most people only use rogues for lockpicking (such a shame, they're seriously monsters in combat), but I've always found Zev a good addition to my party.

Yes, ironic, because chests aren't that big a deal usually.  That said, my cunning rogue PC is rich in both gold and XP compared to my other class PCs.  It does add up over the life of the game.

Re. the archery, I was just responding to what seemed to be the assumption that Leliana was "the" archer among companions.

[Nonvita]

Yeah, I feel terrible because I installed the chest bash mod, so now my warrior HN just breaks open anything Leliana can't unlock... But I excuse it in this playthrough because I figure she's a spoiled noble who's used to getting whatever she wants, so it fits her character. Anytime I play a rogue I turn off the mod, however, but I can still usually unlock most things.



The only reason to assume Leliana's a better archer is because she starts with archery talents where Zevran starts with dual wield. The truth is that Zevran is better at *any* combat, since Leliana really is meant as a utilitarian backup character. That's not to say you can't build them differently, but it's obvious those distinctions are there from the start. I tend to keep Zevran as dual wield and Leliana as archery because those fit their characters best, but there really are several different ways to utilize either of them. Like I said I can't wait to try my 3 rogue archery party! (I just hope I'll be able to intimidate Leliana into staying when I destroy the Urn =P ).

[ENCHANTMENTSSS]

Nonvita wrote...

Yeah, I feel terrible because I installed the chest bash mod, so now my warrior HN just breaks open anything Leliana can't unlock... But I excuse it in this playthrough because I figure she's a spoiled noble who's used to getting whatever she wants, so it fits her character. Anytime I play a rogue I turn off the mod, however, but I can still usually unlock most things.

The only reason to assume Leliana's a better archer is because she starts with archery talents where Zevran starts with dual wield. The truth is that Zevran is better at *any* combat, since Leliana really is meant as a utilitarian backup character. That's not to say you can't build them differently, but it's obvious those distinctions are there from the start. I tend to keep Zevran as dual wield and Leliana as archery because those fit their characters best, but there really are several different ways to utilize either of them. Like I said I can't wait to try my 3 rogue archery party! (I just hope I'll be able to intimidate Leliana into staying when I destroy the Urn =P ).

I've done 2 archers 1 mage 1 tank and that's already wicked enough. 3 rogue archers and a mage wouldn't even let some darkspawn get a swing at ya in most scenarios. It would be sick to shatter 3 opponents in one fell swoop... UBER WICKED

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I play a rogue with high dex/cunning, who does melee, and sticks with dual wielding, as well as device mastery. The dual weapon talents are the best skill tree for fighting., and when you run out of stamina, you can always poison your weapon.



Just get the respecy mod if you dislike zevran or leliana's builds.

[bri193]

On accents:

Leliana is fine for me cos it is a real accent, also french girl accents are one of my favs...

Zevran is horrible to me cos it is fake! I live in Italy and been to Spain many times, Mexico, Costa Rica and Colombia. No one from these countries or Italy speaks English with that dreadful fake accent. Shame on Bioware for not using one of many actors with Spanish or Italian backgound for this..

I play with headphones, so voices are very intimate inside my head, and Zevran is so irritating to me, I never used him. In my 1st playthrough, I convo'ed with him only to advance his quest, and used gifts to keep his approval rating high enough to stick around. He could be the highest damage dealer and have the most wonderful dialogue in the game, but he will never be in my party cos of that accent...

[bri193]

On rogues ...

I usually play rogue-types ,and DA:O is one of the best games for this class. However, they are tricky to build, so you need to plan out what you want out of a PC rogue and/or any companion rogue.

My 1st playthough was as a rogue archer, took care of all the ranged combat and traps/locks. I didn't use Leliana very much (I never used Zevran..). My 2nd play-through is a DW rogue and will do all traps/locks. I will spec Leliana with full archery combat support, no utility. Leliana doesn't come into her own until she gets Lethality, where all her DEX and CUN can be used more effectively