At first glance it seems an obvious choice of good vs evil but if you look closer it's genetics and circumstances that make Morinth what she is and drives her to kill. It's choice and idealism that drives Samara to kill. Also Samara seems more like a religous fanatic to me using her code/bible to justify her actions and imposing her will on other species and other planets that may not abide by her laws.
SELFISH!?!?!?!?!? Well Maybe (MORINTH)
Débuté par
Major-Shrinkage
, févr. 15 2010 06:24
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#102
Posté 17 février 2010 - 12:39
Mikka-chan
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Honestly, I think both of them are very interesting characters. I do think, unless you've gotten the conversation with Samara where she tells you she will kill you if she sees you after the mission, it is a bit hard to justify grabbing Morinth by playing badass/renegade (rather then stupid/renegade). Once you're aware an extremely powerful biotic will kill you in the future (...if you cross paths, of course, but badass/renegade probably comes with a bit of 'paranoid'), taking an easy route to get rid of her without anyone else being aware seems like quite the perfect crime (although honestly, your crew is that loyal that if Mornith stopped being her mom and was like 'HAI GUYS, SHEPARD LET ME ON THE SHIP LULZ!' it would be all 'Oh, great, another psychotic crazyface. Stop picking them up, Shepard. God, can't you like... go find Alenko? (Man, I never thought I'd say that.))').
I do think, though, that if she wanted Morinth could absolutely ruin your ship. Say you're parked at the Citadel, and you go off with- heck, go off with Grunt and whoever else you think isn't that observant. Leave the crew members used to leading people and reading people behind. 'Samara' goes up to Chambers, asks for a chat: Kelly's already charmed by her, you think Morinth would have trouble getting her in to bed? Shepard Is Just That Badass enough to resist such a thing, and I do think some of your crewmembers would be the same, but she could take out the redshirts long before the collectors come around as well as cause some havoc. Then just go to the shuttle, me all 'I am going to inform the Commander, Code, Justice, blah blah...', and voom, slip in to the wards.
...But EDI can do everything just as well, so: sort of pointless. I do believe, though, that people are underestimating the danger Shep is putting people in by allowing Mori on the ship. Yeah, Shepard will kill her if she does something: but she's an addict, and is that really going to stop her? By game play, yes, it will, but... well. I just hold to the belief that it might have not, and she could have totally screwed up things. What if she got Joker, man? Who would fly the ship?! Or Garrus? The guns may not be calibrated! D:
I do think, though, that if she wanted Morinth could absolutely ruin your ship. Say you're parked at the Citadel, and you go off with- heck, go off with Grunt and whoever else you think isn't that observant. Leave the crew members used to leading people and reading people behind. 'Samara' goes up to Chambers, asks for a chat: Kelly's already charmed by her, you think Morinth would have trouble getting her in to bed? Shepard Is Just That Badass enough to resist such a thing, and I do think some of your crewmembers would be the same, but she could take out the redshirts long before the collectors come around as well as cause some havoc. Then just go to the shuttle, me all 'I am going to inform the Commander, Code, Justice, blah blah...', and voom, slip in to the wards.
...But EDI can do everything just as well, so: sort of pointless. I do believe, though, that people are underestimating the danger Shep is putting people in by allowing Mori on the ship. Yeah, Shepard will kill her if she does something: but she's an addict, and is that really going to stop her? By game play, yes, it will, but... well. I just hold to the belief that it might have not, and she could have totally screwed up things. What if she got Joker, man? Who would fly the ship?! Or Garrus? The guns may not be calibrated! D:
#103
Posté 17 février 2010 - 10:50
Ramikadyc
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Another thing that extremely intrigued me about Morinth was her passionate claim that she (an Ardat-Yakshi) was "the genetic destiny of the asari" and that they're "not ready to reveal" that fact. I (yet again) finished the Samara loyalty mission just now and started thinking more about that claim. Sure, you can ask Samara about it and she shrugs it off and says it's BS, that an asari who can't reproduce (at least by conventional asari methods) obviously can't repopulate, but I don't buy that. Either Samara is not fully aware of the impact that Ardat-Yakshi can potentially produce, or she is not telling the full truth to Shepard.
Perhaps Morinth, in her 400 years of living as a vagabond Ardat-Yakshi, has learned things that Samara has not discovered; Samara does say that Ardat-Yakshi were originally worshiped by their culture as goddesses of death, that they had a very significant impact on asari culture and society before their galactic expansion and rise to influence forced them to hide and suppress as much of that history as they possibly could for fear that the other species and cultures would think less of them, generally speaking. Aside from the fact that a single Ardat-Yakshi can kill people by seducing them and melding with them, and that they gain more and more power as they do so, not much else is revealed about their specifics other than the fact that they're vilified by their own species and are now hunted down one by one. They obviously were significant in the past, and I believe that was the result of more than just their basic abilities to kill and grow stronger, and I'm interested in finding out more about it; the relative obscurity of the Ardat-Yakshi surely means there's more to learn.
Of course, it's possible that Samara actually is aware of every detail regarding Ardat-Yakshi and their history with the asari and whatever prophecies or legends or whatever they have pertaining to their rise to dominance, and she's just not telling Shepard the whole truth, committing a lie of omission. I know there's people who believe Samara wouldn't lie to Shepard after swearing her oath and because of her Code, but remember that she committed a similar lie of omission by not telling Shepard that the fugitive she was hunting was her daughter until she was asking for his help to find and kill her. I see no reason why she wouldn't do the same in this case, especially since the only way to ask Samara about Morinth's "genetic destiny" claims is to kill Morinth and ask Samara later, after all the known Ardat-Yakshi in the galaxy have been accounted for and there's no current threat from them.
Some might also say Morinth was just making that claim in the heat of her final battle as part of some sort of God(ess)-complex, and that there's no significance to it. But why would she make that claim to her own mother who she knows is going to kill her no matter what? It's not like there were others around for her to try to impress or convince of anything, aside from Shepard, and that claim is clearly made in direct opposition to Samara, as if it's something she knows and refuses to acknowledge, and there's no way Morinth believes that Samara will be suddenly convinced and understanding and spare her or something.
This is all just speculation on my part, of course. I'm not saying I believe Ardat-Yakshi could somehow be the "genetic destiny" of the asari as the term "genetic destiny" would imply, per se, but I do believe there's more to it than just some crazy evil woman's audacious last words. Just thought I'd toss this out there. I really hope Ardat-Yakshi are elaborated on in ME3 and their lore expanded, and hopefully Morinth makes a comeback if you save her.
Perhaps Morinth, in her 400 years of living as a vagabond Ardat-Yakshi, has learned things that Samara has not discovered; Samara does say that Ardat-Yakshi were originally worshiped by their culture as goddesses of death, that they had a very significant impact on asari culture and society before their galactic expansion and rise to influence forced them to hide and suppress as much of that history as they possibly could for fear that the other species and cultures would think less of them, generally speaking. Aside from the fact that a single Ardat-Yakshi can kill people by seducing them and melding with them, and that they gain more and more power as they do so, not much else is revealed about their specifics other than the fact that they're vilified by their own species and are now hunted down one by one. They obviously were significant in the past, and I believe that was the result of more than just their basic abilities to kill and grow stronger, and I'm interested in finding out more about it; the relative obscurity of the Ardat-Yakshi surely means there's more to learn.
Of course, it's possible that Samara actually is aware of every detail regarding Ardat-Yakshi and their history with the asari and whatever prophecies or legends or whatever they have pertaining to their rise to dominance, and she's just not telling Shepard the whole truth, committing a lie of omission. I know there's people who believe Samara wouldn't lie to Shepard after swearing her oath and because of her Code, but remember that she committed a similar lie of omission by not telling Shepard that the fugitive she was hunting was her daughter until she was asking for his help to find and kill her. I see no reason why she wouldn't do the same in this case, especially since the only way to ask Samara about Morinth's "genetic destiny" claims is to kill Morinth and ask Samara later, after all the known Ardat-Yakshi in the galaxy have been accounted for and there's no current threat from them.
Some might also say Morinth was just making that claim in the heat of her final battle as part of some sort of God(ess)-complex, and that there's no significance to it. But why would she make that claim to her own mother who she knows is going to kill her no matter what? It's not like there were others around for her to try to impress or convince of anything, aside from Shepard, and that claim is clearly made in direct opposition to Samara, as if it's something she knows and refuses to acknowledge, and there's no way Morinth believes that Samara will be suddenly convinced and understanding and spare her or something.
This is all just speculation on my part, of course. I'm not saying I believe Ardat-Yakshi could somehow be the "genetic destiny" of the asari as the term "genetic destiny" would imply, per se, but I do believe there's more to it than just some crazy evil woman's audacious last words. Just thought I'd toss this out there. I really hope Ardat-Yakshi are elaborated on in ME3 and their lore expanded, and hopefully Morinth makes a comeback if you save her.
Modifié par Ramikadyc, 17 février 2010 - 11:09 .
#104
Posté 17 février 2010 - 11:28
MutantSpleen
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I didn't have enough Renegade to get Morinth on my first play, and truthfully didn't know that was an option. This time I think I am going to take her. How high does your Renegade score have to be? I am correct is assuming that is what is needed, you have to be able to resist Morinth's dominate? I am into the 4th bar of Renegade now, so Samara would definitely kill me though I have never seen that conversation with her. It may be because as soon as I got her I traveled from Illium to the Citadel and then she called me down and gave me her loyalty quest.
PS: I really hate how the characters normal conversation trees are blocked off once they give you the loyalty quest.
PS: I really hate how the characters normal conversation trees are blocked off once they give you the loyalty quest.
Modifié par MutantSpleen, 17 février 2010 - 12:02 .
#105
Posté 17 février 2010 - 11:35
Ramikadyc
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I've only ever done it as a Renegade, because I've never been able to take all the crap my character is required to take through conversations to get my Paragon high enough to pass the Para-check. I know that, as a Renegade, you need your meter to be almost full--for me, that means UP TO the last segment, not filled, just passing the line between last and second-to-last. Someone else may know exactly how high it needs to be and if it can be lower than what I've said, but I make sure that I'm passing into the last segment before I attempt it.
As for Paragon, I hear it's requirement is a little lower than Renegade, although I can't confirm that.
As for Paragon, I hear it's requirement is a little lower than Renegade, although I can't confirm that.
#106
Posté 17 février 2010 - 11:46
StraightEdgeUK
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I played it through with mostly Paragon choices but picked Morinth over Samara. Didn't like Samara's 'absolutes' when it came to her Code, especially the way she would have no hesitation in killing innocents who happen to break said Code. The police officer on Illium for example, if she had kept her detained for more than 24 hours. Morinth was playing the genetic cards she was dealt and could potentially be convinced to change her ways - no hope of that with Samara. She also said she'd kill Shep afterwards if she didn't agree with anything he did during the mission. Not liking them apples.
That was my Shep's justification anyway.
That was my Shep's justification anyway.
#107
Posté 17 février 2010 - 12:47
Mailak
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scrappydoo555 wrote...
At first glance it seems an
obvious choice of good vs evil but if you look closer it's genetics and
circumstances that make Morinth what she is and drives her to kill.
It's choice and idealism that drives Samara to kill. Also Samara seems more like a religous fanatic to me using her code/bible to justify her actions and imposing her will on other species and other planets that may not abide by her laws.
My Paragon killed Samara for just that reason. Morinth can always be controlled, Samara with her pure black and white views will kill usefull individuals.
Shepherd needs Aria, The Patriarch, TIM (to an extent) and even Jack. If Samara had met these people without being oathed to Shepherd she would have killed them.
#108
Posté 17 février 2010 - 01:56
InvaderErl
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People will find a way to be an apologist for just about everything.
#109
Posté 19 février 2010 - 12:38
tonnactus
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Is Thane that different?Or do some people really think he only killed bad guys....Suprez30 wrote...
She just killed a n innocent young woman .. She's a monster.
Modifié par tonnactus, 19 février 2010 - 12:38 .
#110
Posté 19 février 2010 - 01:03
Nizzemancer
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stillnotking wrote...
Take her once to unlock Dominate and then immediately load the game. Taking Morinth isn't Renegade, it's Chaotic Stupid. Samara is just as powerful and is not a sociopathic mind-control vampire.
I wasn't even aware she had a different power, I thought they were identical in everything except dialogue...Thanks for the heads up!
#111
Posté 19 février 2010 - 01:10
ERJAK2
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Dusty Everman wrote...
Gill Kaiser wrote...
Ramikadyc wrote...
Now if you don't agree with that, good luck finding something about what I'm about to say to agree with. I find Samara to be totally and utterly irresponsible. She had THREE children who were Ardat-Yakshi. THREE. Maybe one was a mistake, and its worth trying for a second. But then the second had the same curse. Still, she went for a THIRD, and she even admits that it might stem from them being purebloods, yet she continued to meld with another asari, so you can't justify it as her maternal choice to have more children, because she had the option to meld with another species to try to prevent it.
That's just my opinion, though. And that's the opinion I take with me on some playthroughs.
It manifests at puberty. She could and probably did have all three children before her first was diagnosed.
Correct. The true illness is in Samara. She can only have Ardat-Yakshi children, and she did not find this out until her oldest child came to reproducive age. By that time she had already had her other two children. This is why she became a Justicar. She'll tell you all this in her dialogs on the Normandy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't it implied that if Samara were to have more children with her already knowing about her Ardat Yakshi gene, they could take preventative measures before it's born to correct the genetic issue?
#112
Posté 19 février 2010 - 01:11
ERJAK2
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Mailak wrote...
scrappydoo555 wrote...
At first glance it seems an
obvious choice of good vs evil but if you look closer it's genetics and
circumstances that make Morinth what she is and drives her to kill.
It's choice and idealism that drives Samara to kill. Also Samara seems more like a religous fanatic to me using her code/bible to justify her actions and imposing her will on other species and other planets that may not abide by her laws.
My Paragon killed Samara for just that reason. Morinth can always be controlled, Samara with her pure black and white views will kill usefull individuals.
Shepherd needs Aria, The Patriarch, TIM (to an extent) and even Jack. If Samara had met these people without being oathed to Shepherd she would have killed them.
Or in the case of Aria and Jack TRIED.
#113
Posté 19 février 2010 - 01:37
Nizzemancer
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ERJAK2 wrote...
Mailak wrote...
scrappydoo555 wrote...
At first glance it seems an
obvious choice of good vs evil but if you look closer it's genetics and
circumstances that make Morinth what she is and drives her to kill.
It's choice and idealism that drives Samara to kill. Also Samara seems more like a religous fanatic to me using her code/bible to justify her actions and imposing her will on other species and other planets that may not abide by her laws.
My Paragon killed Samara for just that reason. Morinth can always be controlled, Samara with her pure black and white views will kill usefull individuals.
Shepherd needs Aria, The Patriarch, TIM (to an extent) and even Jack. If Samara had met these people without being oathed to Shepherd she would have killed them.
Or in the case of Aria and Jack TRIED.
Please, Human biotics have nothing on Asari Justicars...And jack is just a big ugly blowfish...
#114
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 01:29
Major-Shrinkage
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Wow, forget to get on for three months and these things really take off. Ive decided the only useful thing about morinth is the dominate ability. However, after through the 4 pages since left this post, ill have to re-choose. My character does everything to benefit her ability to gain ally's and keep them. Either way, i believe that the outcome on this decision will be...unforseeable until the next installment. Which im already primed for some info about. Oh patience.
#115
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 02:42
gethspy
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it depend on whether you prefer chaotic evil or lawful goodGill Kaiser wrote...
I really don't think it makes sense for anyone to take Morinth over Samara, unless they're metagaming and need Dominate. Why would you take a sociopathic sex vampire over a powerful teammate who is already sworn to follow you anywhere?
#116
Posté 11 mai 2010 - 02:47
Alanosborn1991
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Kill them both
Kill Samara then let Morinth be the leader for the 2nd squad leader part and she will die
Everyones happy lol
Kill Samara then let Morinth be the leader for the 2nd squad leader part and she will die
Everyones happy lol
