176 réponses à ce sujet

[kaotician]

Nah, without Harbinger's control, how does the CG turn towards the light at the final end of the Prothean race?

[Tyreal42a]

WoodWizzard87 wrote...

Pretty sure he was still talking to the audience. Sounds very absurd, but think about it like this. I just played the entire game from Sheppards' perspective. Sheppard is now on the run, and we have harbinger doing his dialogue over the exit scene. He's telling the player(human), that you have failed and I'm still coming to get you. Its just there to reinforce that the reapers are still coming and the collectors were just pawns of a bigger plan. Sheppard was long gone and the collector general is just a husk, there is nothing more to it.

You didn't play the entire game from Shepard's perspective. Heck, there's an entire scene where you don't play as Shepard at all, you play as joker. There are a few other scenes not from his/her perspective as well.

[Weskerr]

This whole argument is rediculous. Of course he was talking to the Collector general. It is so blatantly obvious.

[Ferocious7]

Madecologist wrote...

Well the Collectors did fail. I mean, they loose the base (Nuked or Irradiated), they get killed, Shepard wins the day, and the Human Reaper is destroyed. If I was Harbinger, I would call that a big failure.

So yes the comment was directed to the Collectors. They failed. I actually felt sad during that scene. Felt sorry for the Collectors, especially when it reaches up as it is released from Harbinger's control (add in I still remembered Mordin's speech about the Collectors being culturally dead).

Yes, the Collectors "failed", but not in the sense Harbinger did.   So Harbinger getting mad that they failed, meanwhile the Reaper's had those implants put in them and controlled their general and some of them while controlling the general... not to mention had them "programmed" to do certain tasks when they apparently know the "capabilities" of the Collector's.... Harbinger ultimately failed.

He was not only their mastermind, but their puppeteer.   The Reaper's technology is what controlled them all into doing what they did.  They suffered the consequences, but the Harbinger failed.... by underestimating Shepard and overestimating himself and the minions who's minds were dominated ultimately by Reaper technology and certain ones by Harbinger himself.

I actually am looking forward to ME3 all the more because of Harbinger's overconfidence.... he's gonna be one very disappointed, broken down Reaper when my character is through with he and his crew.

Modifié par Ferocious7, 15 février 2010 - 08:57 .

[lltoon]

I think you guys need to see the context of what Harbinger said:



"Pathetic human. You've changed nothing. You have merely attracted the attention of those infinitely your greater. Those you know as Reapers shall be your salvation through destruction. You have failed. We will find another way...releasing control."



He was referring to Shepard.

[Alexandus]

Naltair wrote...

He/it was directing the speech to Shepard.

Then he was talking to himself, because Shep was. Not. There.

His head was turned towards the Collector General, and his words indicate even more that he was speaking TO the Collector General, not Shepard.

"You have failed, we will find another way" -Since this seems to be confusing some of you, let me rephrase it:
"Using you guys to build a Human Reaper hasn't turned out so well, I'm going to leave you to die and lead all the other reapers in a LEEROY JENNKINS charge at the galaxy. TTFN."

[Torhagen]

lltoon wrote...

I think you guys need to see the context of what Harbinger said:

"Pathetic human. You've changed nothing. You have merely attracted the attention of those infinitely your greater. Those you know as Reapers shall be your salvation through destruction.
He was referring to Shepard.

Change of scene

You have failed. We will find another way...releasing control."
He was talking to the general

[Maj.Pain007]

I to also thought it was directed at Shepard. But its quite silly what he says. I mean how did Shepard fail? He did what he was suppose to do. Seems like Harbinger is filled with fail.

[GenericPlayer2]

I am pretty certain Harbinger was talking to the Collector General. It seemed obvious to me.



Reaper arrogance never ceases to surprise me. Its like bringing a knife to a gun fight, and then blaming the knife!

[kaotician]

Yeah, I'm sure it's CG, because it's a meaningless remark to direct at Shepherd - I mean, how has Shepherd failed? The original objective was to find out whatever these Collector's are doing with the humans, and put a stop to it, wasn't it? The fact that they link into the overall Reaper story in that sense was neither here nor there. So how has Shepherd failed? Omega 4 has been breached, the experimental larva has been destroyed, the Collector base and what appears to be the last of the Protheans (assuming that there are no more on our side of the Omega 4 relay at the time) have been wiped out and thus the kidnapping of people stopped. So where's the failure? In what sense, in-game? I don't see it, then ending's a result for Shepherd.

[kaotician]

.......unless Omega 4 isn't the only Collector relay, and those unused ones have something else going on.....

[General Balls]

Mukora wrote...

Well, the speech wasn't directed at Shepard, Harbinger still says it if Shepard dies. So, yes, he's an arrogant space squid who blames everyone but himself.

That's true, but cut some slack, mate. If you replaced all the Collectors with Reapers, do you think Shepard would be able to storm and destroy an entire space station with a tiny stealth cruiser? >_>

In that sense it *is* the Collector's fault.

[kaotician]

Seems like a case of a bad workman blaming his tools, to me. I don't half feel sorry for the Protheans though, what an awful, horrible fate.

It reminds me, incidentally, of the fate of the elves captured by Morgoth in (I think) the First Age in Lord Of The Rings, who became the Orcs.

Modifié par kaotician, 15 février 2010 - 10:44 .

[kaotician]

Reminds me in fact of the fate of the Elves captured by Morgoth in the First Age in the Lord of the Rings....who became the Orcs.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

SmilingMirror wrote...

TheShady wrote...

Doesn't he also say something like "what you did here means nothing" or "you accomplished bollocks" in the same moment?

Yes, but that WAS directed at Shepherd....not that Shepherd was really listening lol. the camera was watching him as he was running off to the ship.

the "You have failed, we will find another way" thing was directed at the Collector general which was just a jerk thing to do. Note that the camera was looking at the collector general.

While the camera was directed at the CG(Collector General), there's where Harbinger, says "Releasing Control",
This is in NO WAY directed at Shep, it was intended to be seen by us, for the express intention of continuing the storyline.

By Harbinger 'releasing control' of his minions, who are about to become more spacejunk.

Think back to ME1, and when Soveriegn took control of Sarens' lifeless body, the fight of the century ensues(lol), we defeat 'him', then Soveriegn is left still "attached", and at that exact moment, Joker fires the torpedo, it was that moment of 'disbelief' that brought Soveriegn down. 

Modifié par ohupthis, 15 février 2010 - 10:51 .

[Weskerr]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

I am pretty certain Harbinger was talking to the Collector General. It seemed obvious to me.

Reaper arrogance never ceases to surprise me. Its like bringing a knife to a gun fight, and then blaming the knife!

Exactly. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Mikeypage]

I felt that once harbinger "released control", the collector general regained its independent thought - it's body language is clearly expressing shock, or disbelief, or just not knowing where it was - as if it had woken up from a dream. I actually ended up sympathising for it - just as it was becoming independent for the first time in it's existence, it stares straight into an enormous explosion

[Alien Alloyd]

Did anyone feel overwhelmingly sad about the General at the end, his hopeless flump onto the console as if to say..."What have I done"... Only seconds later to be destroyed, the end to the last of the protheans.

[newcomplex]

Draconis6666 wrote...

newcomplex wrote...

Yes, they are being indirectly controlled by the collector general.   

Which would require the collector general to have some form of his on intelligence or harbinger would be in control of all the drones to begin with through the collector general.

No, because the collector general is being entirely controlled by the Harbringer.

"Direct control" is the process in which Harbringer physically enters the form of the Collector, causing a wide variety of powers.    Like being able to shoot giant balls of fire from your hand.

"Indirect control" is like remote controlling a car.

The Collector General has the neurological hardware to indirectly control his minions.    He is being completely and entire controlled by Harbringer.

This is coming from mordins mouth, check out the sticky.

Mikeypage wrote...

I felt that once harbinger "released
control", the collector general regained its independent thought - it's
body language is clearly expressing shock, or disbelief, or just not
knowing where it was - as if it had woken up from a dream. I actually
ended up sympathising for it - just as it was becoming independent for
the first time in it's existence, it stares straight into an enormous
explosion

What are you talking about?    After getting released, his head droops down and his hands twitch.


Finally, whether shepherd was "there" or not is completely irrelevent.    Where is "here?    Harbringer obviously isn't communicating by vocal channels.      The collectors do not even have mouths, much less things that can produce a voice that talks in such a human fashion.    

Its pretty clear that the voice shepherds hearing at the end is in his or her head, not loudspeakers mounted onto the walls, or some collector dude yelling.    

You don't monologue for five minutes then the final line of said monologue is engaging in dialogue with a hand gun without informing the audience.  

Modifié par newcomplex, 15 février 2010 - 11:47 .

[Torhagen]

look at 5:05

[kaotician]

Alien Alloyd wrote...

Did anyone feel overwhelmingly sad about the General at the end, his hopeless flump onto the console as if to say..."What have I done"... Only seconds later to be destroyed, the end to the last of the protheans.

Yes, I did. What an unbelievable fate, and through it, how clear are we now that the Reapers are a genuine moral evil? Great writing from Bioware. I'm thrilled that this sort of intellectual grasp of ethics is turning up in videogames, the idea of a knowably wrong moral position being the enemy, rather than just a scary face or ugly people (hello Gears).

[kaotician]

Torhagen wrote...

look at 5:05

url comes up as invalid video id.

[mrs_anomaly]

ODST 3 wrote...

That was sad when the General got incinerated. Freedom after years of enslavement only to be torched.

Yes, that was sad. So I understand why he sent the 'proof' pic of the Reapers to the Normandy...which makes me wonder to what extent were the Protheans mindless puppets that he had the presence of mind to do that forwarding of the Reaper evidence.

Either way I'm not going to pick that one apart endlessly until ME3. I'm glad they included the scene of his demise, it made you feel far more empathy toward the Protheans.

[ZennExile]

Why do people think the Reaper is talking to the Prothean when the reaper is obviously just voicing his thoughts to Shepard? You have failed. (to shepard) We will find another way. (also to shepard) The Reaper has no reason to talk to a glorified husk. It's genetically engineered to serve a purpose and I am positive that purpose didn't include conversation. Just saying.

[Draconis6666]

newcomplex wrote...

You don't monologue for five minutes then the final line of said monologue is engaging in dialogue with a hand gun without informing the audience.  

You also dont randomly pause for 5 minutes in the middle of your monologue and then start it up again, why would he bother to tell shepard he is releasing control.

If he never talks to the collectors why would he give DIRECT COMMANDS on horizon "prepare these humans for ascension" why would he even TALK on horizon when shepard isnt even close to being there when the initial attack takes place.

Modifié par Draconis6666, 16 février 2010 - 12:57 .