103 réponses à ce sujet

[Sphynx118]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

Your definition of a plot hole is screwed up. I'm not saying there aren't a handful of minor ones, I'm saying that you wouldn't know an actual plot hole if it was launched at you with a mass accelerator and ruined your day somewhere and sometime.

^^^^This, how are these plot holes? Sounds like someone just wants an excuse to complain. And the council, really? Since when does th council give a damn about ANYTHING you say until you have hard evidence. IE a sound recording like tali found of saron. AND they even said they went to Ilos and vigil was not functioning any longer for them get more info.

Rofl fanboying much? Those are plotholes like it or not. In me 1 the council decides to believe you after hearing a RECORDING of saren. In me 2 the decide not to believe you after studying 30% or more of a dead reaper ship, hearing saren talk about it etc. You are acting like theres no evidence at al in me 2 while there is more than in me 1. Stop being a fanboy and open your eyes. A dev on this forum even stated that the part about the council not believing you was weird and he even took it up with mac walters.

[MaaZeus]

About Wilson, I think its money that spoke. In his audiologs he was pretty stunned about how much money they are throwing to this project and hopes some of it would show in his paycheck too. But its also possible that Wilson was innocent and Miranda made a mistake. Perhaps Collectors were behind the mech attack.

About shuttle thing, EDI explained that Normandy has to be in hiatus through the final testing of IFF, so your crew took the shuttle as your base of operations to next mission. Perhaps it is equipped with small FTL drive and/or is capable of using Mass Relays? Not sure. Never explained. This part is certainly a plothole of sorts. *edit* Found out that Shuttle is equipped with FTL drive, so it is capable of traveling between planets. They used one at the beginning of the game.

I atleast did not find any holes in Councils reasons for not believing. Vigil was now broken. Whole Citadel was almost in ruins and Sovereign was blown to smithereens. Out of the pieces they got (lots of it was captured by scavengers, and Cerberus too), there is no reason to believe that this is not Geth construct, one big sentient Geth Juggernaut. How the hell would Quarians know how advanced technology Geth are capable to build? Hell, even in ME1 Tali was amazed (IIRC) how far Geth have come since they drove Quarians away 300 YEARS AGO. They are constantly developing itself. Quarians know NOTHING about current Geth.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 15 février 2010 - 05:39 .

[Moogliepie]

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

Please learn what a plot hole is, because none of those are plot holes. The last one is actually explained thoroughly if you paid attention at all in the game.

[Sphynx118]

Lukertin wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Wynne wrote...

Sphynx--Mordin's little seeker was delivered by Cerberus, I'm pretty sure. Ash/Kaidan being unfrozen--not all the frozen people were taken; some were left behind because the Collectors didn't have enough time to take everyone. Conrad Verner is almost certainly a bug, not a plothole.

Thats what you came up with not bioware. How did cerberus get it if we are the only ones investigating this collector crap? Its not like they send a cerberus team 2 days after we looked around at freedoms progress and one of those bugs is still flying around. Wouldnt be so hard to guess who the abductors are then would it? If the collectors leaved stuff like that behind then the illusive man wouldnt need shep to go find out who the kidnapper is

Since Bioware didn't explain it, you can offer your own explanations until there is official word on the matter.
Mordin is a genius.  He could have made a prototype seeker bug from Veetor's data.

The thing is that we arent supposed to make our own explanations. Both of your theories are more then believable imo so why couldnt bioware just use one of them? Its like reading a book with alot of pages torn out and then guess what should have been written were there isnt anything to read

[Sphynx118]

Moogliepie wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

Please learn what a plot hole is, because none of those are plot holes. The last one is actually explained thoroughly if you paid attention at all in the game.

Lol fine w/e dude. Whatever YOUR definition of a plothole is i dont care. The thing is. These things are wrong and shouldnt be unexplained in a game made by bioware. Call them bananas or whatever you want but they still shouldnt exist.
And no the last one is not explained thoroughly at all lol. Please play the game again

Modifié par Sphynx118, 15 février 2010 - 05:18 .

[khevan]

I personally feel that Bioware exceeded my expectations when it came to the "small scale" plot, character development, squad interactions, etc. These were exceptionally well done, and I hope it continues into ME3.



However, I was a bit let down by the "large scale" plot. There really wasn't much of one. Most of the game was involved in the "small scale," while the "large scale" didn't have the same urgency as ME1. The overall idea behind the large scale plot (the Collectors working for the Reapers, abducting human colonies) was a good idea, but I feel like the overall plot took a backseat to the character development/squad interaction plotlines.



As far as plot-holes go, I don't know if it's a real "hole" or not, but the only real thing that bothered me was the heavy-handed way Bioware forced the entire squad to leave the Normandy just before the collectors showed up. I understand why it was necessary, but the way it was implemented kinda made me go "huh? Oh, great, SOMETHING BAD™ is going to happen." It just felt clumsily implemented.



Anyway, I want to end this by saying that I think this game is at least equal to ME1, if not a better game overall. There are differences, and I like both games for different reasons. There are certainly flaws in ME1. ME2 is also flawed, plotwise (in my opinion) but the gameplay was vastly improved...so I have to give the edge to ME2 as a better game, even if I think ME1 had a slightly better story.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

None of those are plot holes.

1.) Wilson's role in the beginning of the game is deliberately kept vague. The more I replay the level, the more I realize that Wilson has no motive for wanting the facility destroyed or Shepard killed... he's ecstatic that Shepard was ressurected. And he's a biology guy, it doesn't make sense for him to be using mechs to take out the facility. So why the attack then? What an Illusive question...

2.) Not a plot hole, but rather a badly implimented reason to get the crew off the ship. This is the one story point that I think was badly done.

3.) Not a plot hole... just something that wasn't written in....

4.) Liara again? Ok, you'll never ever be able to look at this game objectively with that attitude. There is a rather large difference between playing something and deciding you don't like it and deciding you don't like it before you play it. People who constantly harp on these minor points pretty much prove that their opinions are distinctly poisoned by bitterness.

5.) Perfectly fitting the council's previous actions. They uplifted the Krogan when they weren't ready for it, exiled the Quarian rather than assist them with the Geth rebellion, and didn't even believe Shepard about Reapers in the first place. Besides all of that, it's clear that whatever wreckage of sovereign they recovered, it's clear that it wasn't enough to determine with any accuracy that it was anything other than a super complicated ship created by the Geth. I'm betting that Cerberus had a lot to do with recovering most of the ship, hence their sudden technological leaps forward from the first game.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 15 février 2010 - 05:29 .

[Barquiel]

Heartlocker wrote...

All i can say it, ME1 story is just more appealing to me.

yes...same here!

[Ulicus]

Yeah, they're not plot holes. Valid gripes, certainly, but not plot holes. There is a rather large problem with the Council not believing Shepard about the Reapers, but it hasn't really got anything to do with Sovereign's wreckage. If he's made of a magic undatable alloy, who are we to argue? The biggest problem that I can see is that Shepard proved his vision true when he located Saren on Ilos, and that vision contained the Reapers. If Shepard had followed Saren to Ilos in some other fashion, then the Council would have a leg to stand on. As it is, the only way they can refute the existence of the Reapers is by:

A) Accusing Shepard of lying to them about the way in which he found Saren
or
Arbitrarily deciding that only "parts" of the vision were valid

Yet they make it clear that they don't think Shepard is lying, simply deluded. Which is silly.

There probably is a way around this, it just annoys me that no attempt was made to address it in the game. It could have been as simple as the Council reminding Shepard that he originally thought the synthetics in his dream were the Geth. (Of course, then he can counter with the Cipher. Which reminds me: you'd have thought asari scholars on the protheans would be all over Shepard and Shi'ala.)

Modifié par Ulicus, 15 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[Sphynx118]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

None of those are plot holes.

1.) Wilson's role in the beginning of the game is deliberately kept vague. The more I replay the level, the more I realize that Wilson has no motive for wanting the facility destroyed or Shepard killed... he's ecstatic that Shepard was ressurected. And he's a biology guy, it doesn't make sense for him to be using mechs to take out the facility. So why the attack then? What an Illusive question...

2.) Not a plot hole, but rather a badly implimented reason to get the crew off the ship. This is the one story point that I think was badly done.

3.) Not a plot hole... just something that wasn't written in....

4.) Liara again?! Ok, you'll never ever be able to look at this game objectively with that attitude.

5.) Perfectly fitting the council's previous actions. They uplifted the Krogan when they weren't ready for it, exiled the Quarian rather than assist them with the Geth rebellion, and didn't even believe Shepard about Reapers in the first place. Besides all of that, it's clear that whatever wreckage of sovereign they recovered, it's clear that it wasn't enough to determine with any accuracy that it was anything other than a super complicated ship created by the Geth. I'm betting that Cerberus had a lot to do with recovering most of the ship, hence their sudden technological leaps forward from the first game.

1. Still not explained at all. Its retarded. Thats the point.

2. yes

3. "Something that just wasnt written in" lol? How exactly is that different from a plothole?

4. Liara is the only one who gets shafted in this department so it would be kinda retarded to bring up ashley here wouldnt it?

5. Perfectly fitting? Thats YOUR opinion isnt it? The whole rant you made about the council is dripping with your personal opinion that the council is retarded by default. Biased much?

[dreman9999]

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

1. Will be told in ME3.
2,Well it can hold 12 people.
3.It was a personal non mission meeting. How would they know? Kaiden/Ashley just popped up in the mission so they get written in the logs.
4.Outside of you kissing her. The devs wanted to trick  you into thinking she to busy  to want anything from you.
That's why so many people did not chose this option.Link.
In reality she helped  back to life and it afrad to talk to you about it with you and she wants to avange the person that helped he do it. No letter afterwards adds to the trick
5.Their being realistic politians.The Nomandy only have pic of severgn which everyone seen now. It's also mostly a cover up, alot of goverment secret organizations took up most of soverigns parts with cerburis getting the most.
EDI tells you that your enign is soverign bowls. And Garrus give you ships gun that were made from the Turian backward engineering sovergns guns.

[ArminW68]

khevan wrote...

I personally feel that Bioware exceeded my expectations when it came to the "small scale" plot, character development, squad interactions, etc. These were exceptionally well done, and I hope it continues into ME3.

However, I was a bit let down by the "large scale" plot. There really wasn't much of one. Most of the game was involved in the "small scale," while the "large scale" didn't have the same urgency as ME1. The overall idea behind the large scale plot (the Collectors working for the Reapers, abducting human colonies) was a good idea, but I feel like the overall plot took a backseat to the character development/squad interaction plotlines.

As far as plot-holes go, I don't know if it's a real "hole" or not, but the only real thing that bothered me was the heavy-handed way Bioware forced the entire squad to leave the Normandy just before the collectors showed up. I understand why it was necessary, but the way it was implemented kinda made me go "huh? Oh, great, SOMETHING BAD™ is going to happen." It just felt clumsily implemented.

Anyway, I want to end this by saying that I think this game is at least equal to ME1, if not a better game overall. There are differences, and I like both games for different reasons. There are certainly flaws in ME1. ME2 is also flawed, plotwise (in my opinion) but the gameplay was vastly improved...so I have to give the edge to ME2 as a better game, even if I think ME1 had a slightly better story.

Very well said about the "small" and "large" scale difference, exactly how I felt about it.

Awesome writing in the small things (with some major blunders, like for instance no one even commenting about a frackin actual Geth standing right next to me at the citadel customs while I try to explain that the two Asari are no geth infiltrators... lol), but the large scale plot was just way less epic than the first installment.

Also, has no one else taken an issue with the incrdibly cheesy final battle?
I mean, WTF? They build some 900-foot terminator that they pump full of blended human sauce? Hello? All of your base are belong to us?

That does not make ANY sense in whatever way you look at it, it's one step beyond silly and it sacrifices credibility for a short "hey- this would be cool!" shock effect.
Maybe it just rubs me the wrong way because I'm a biologist, but this was such an incredibly stupid explanation for all the human abductions, it kinda spoiled the endgame completely for me...

Oh, and yeah - the Liara continuation was incredibly weak

Modifié par ArminW68, 15 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[Sphynx118]

dreman9999 wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

1. Will be told in ME3.
2,Well it can hold 12 people.
3.It was a personal non mission meeting. How would they know? Kaiden/Ashley just popped up in the mission so they get written in the logs.
4.Outside of you kissing her. The devs wanted to trick  you into thinking she to busy  to want anything from you.
That's why so many people did not chose this option.Link.
In reality she helped  back to life and it afrad to talk to you about it with you and she wants to avange the person that helped he do it. No letter afterwards adds to the trick
5.Their being realistic politians.The Nomandy only have pic of severgn which everyone seen now. It's also mostly a cover up, alot of goverment secret organizations took up most of soverigns parts with cerburis getting the most.
EDI tells you that your enign is soverign bowls. And Garrus give you ships gun that were made from the Turian backward engineering sovergns guns.

1.No it will not. Dont make stuff up.
2.Still doenst explain why it happens.
4. Ash/kaidan gives you a hug so its exactly the same. Everyone gets that dialogue option that you linked, not just those who romanced her.(That means the ones who romanced Liara gets NOTHING while those romancing the others gets a personal mail.) And you run around illium doing quests for her so im pretty sure that gets written in the logs too

[Computron2000]

General Battuta wrote...

I had earlier posted some suggestions of what I perceived as writing failures in ME2.

I just finished a full replay of Mass Effect 1 and 2 using the same character.

+1 on this. Re-did ME1 after ME2. The parts of the interface was damn annoying (Mako + Inventory + elevators were as bad as remembered). Only slowmo5 make it tolerable. 

Garrus's talks were even less than ME2 (especially disliked the part where he kept thanking me) and the same for Tali. Both seemed much more fleshed out in ME2. The final ME1 mission didn't feel as dangerous though (possibly the music in ME2 kept up the tension) except for the Mako through Conduit part, but that was due to the Mako being really really touchy on every bump

[In Exile]

People talk about Saren being a well-developed antagonist, but I just don't see it. Saren allegedly attacks Eden Prime (Shepard never actually sees this), and then Anderson and Shepard go absolutely "WTFBBQ" about this. I thought there was never a moment of more contrived railroading than the first meeting with the Council, where there's no option to be reasonable about things.



Beyond that, Shepard doesn't interact with Saren at all until Virmire, then on more time on the Citadel. You're constantly being told "hunt Saren," but that's largely no different than being told to hunt the Collectors. I just never felt this obsession to hunt Saren as any kind of driving motivation.



Aside from Virmire, the story worlds in ME1 are useless. Yes, you "need" the cypher to understand the beacon, and you "need" the location of the relay, and you "need" liara to interpret it, but honestly, if they had skipped this garbage and made the beacon give you a fully reliable vision of Ilos you could have skipped this and focused directly on hunting Saren. ME1 is superflous with a lot of its plot worlds ihn the same sense ME2 is - they're just worse worlds by comparison.



ME1, really, has only two really well-done portions; Virmre and Ilos/Citadel. Everything else is pretty poor. Not to mention that how Shepard becomes a Spectre is nonsensical. ME2 has the suicide mission, which is cool & dramatic (terminator aside) but could have used more developmenti in terms of 'epicness'. Every other episode is well done, and IMO the production values are far better than ME1, but it doesn't really have super gripping moments.

[RhythmlessNinja]

Sphynx118 wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

Your definition of a plot hole is screwed up. I'm not saying there aren't a handful of minor ones, I'm saying that you wouldn't know an actual plot hole if it was launched at you with a mass accelerator and ruined your day somewhere and sometime.

^^^^This, how are these plot holes? Sounds like someone just wants an excuse to complain. And the council, really? Since when does th council give a damn about ANYTHING you say until you have hard evidence. IE a sound recording like tali found of saron. AND they even said they went to Ilos and vigil was not functioning any longer for them get more info.

Rofl fanboying much? Those are plotholes like it or not. In me 1 the council decides to believe you after hearing a RECORDING of saren. In me 2 the decide not to believe you after studying 30% or more of a dead reaper ship, hearing saren talk about it etc. You are acting like theres no evidence at al in me 2 while there is more than in me 1. Stop being a fanboy and open your eyes. A dev on this forum even stated that the part about the council not believing you was weird and he even took it up with mac walters.

Being a fanboy? How about you stop crying about your non existant plot holes. They studied the ship & they found nothing about the reapers on it, they even said that. Ilos was the only real chance they had at finding real evidence. After that, they concluded it was all geth tech & sarens attempt to trick shepard by using the reapers name. It's no secret the councils in huge denial about the reapers. As much as you complain you sure don't have your damn facts straight. Did I say there was no evidence? Hell no. Did the reaper in ME1 EVER contact shep via ship? No, not once. The only real evidence left would be shepards mind. 

Cry more please. A sound recording of a REAL turian specter. Or a sound recording of him talking about a legend, ie the reapers. That's like trying to convince people that santa is real. How would they know what reaper tech looks like if only been just that, a legend. It only makes sense they have a hard time believing something only you've seen & heard.

Modifié par RhythmlessNinja, 15 février 2010 - 05:59 .

[General Battuta]

None of those are plot holes.

[addiction21]

It is amazing to see what people thing plot holes are.

[Exile Isan]

Maybe Joker/Kelly don't ask about Liara, because she didn't get all in your face and have an arguement with you and part on bad terms like Ash & Kaidan do. And unlike Ash/Kaidan she also doesn't really have a problem with you working with Cerberus and she knows where you've been the last two years (since she's the one who gave Cerberus Shepard's body) . I'd also like to point out that whether you romance Liara or not she does love Shepard, which is probably why the dialog is the same.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 15 février 2010 - 06:02 .

[SurfaceBeneath]

Sphynx118 wrote...

1. Still not explained at all. Its retarded. Thats the point.

2. yes

3. "Something that just wasnt written in" lol? How exactly is that different from a plothole?

4. Liara is the only one who gets shafted in this department so it would be kinda retarded to bring up ashley here wouldnt it?

5. Perfectly fitting? Thats YOUR opinion isnt it? The whole rant you made about the council is dripping with your personal opinion that the council is retarded by default. Biased much?

1.) Retarded? To not spoon feed the audience every plot point so that there is some mystery surrounding exactly how you were ressurrected and what exactly the Illusive Man's grand scheme is for the third game? That's not retarded, it's sophisticated

2.) Yup

3 and 4.) Because the POINT they were trying to make in ME2 is that your love interests from the first game are disconnected from you. You don't get an e-mail because you spend a ton more time talking to Liara than you do to Ash/Kai. She is meant to treat you at a distance because she is uncomfortable with you and she is meant to be brief with you because she is obsessed with taking down the Shadow Broker. They still have a comic series to finish that might hash out the specifics of that one. Now, I don't think she's terribly well written in the second game, but then again, it was in my opinion that she wasn't ever well written. Either way, she comprises maybe 1% of the total story of the game, so it is not enough to really effect the overall plot of the game. Again, unless you really really really like Liara in a way that makes you so bitter that she wasn't included very much in ME2 to poison the entire product.

5.) No, it's not perfectly fitting based on my opinion. It's perfectly consistent with everything they've done up to that point. I didn't just make the crap up that I said, they were written to be obstructionist and short sighted, more concerned with holding the peace of Council space and the races within it than to be concerned with long term goals. Quite frankly, it seems to me that you're attributing an awful lot of helpfulness and prescience to them that they never had in the first game. You are told that they didn't recover most of the wreckage of Sovereign... given their attitude of denying Shepard's claims all throughout the first game, why would they believe Shepard was right about the Reapers after the event?

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 15 février 2010 - 06:03 .

[Sphynx118]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

Your definition of a plot hole is screwed up. I'm not saying there aren't a handful of minor ones, I'm saying that you wouldn't know an actual plot hole if it was launched at you with a mass accelerator and ruined your day somewhere and sometime.

^^^^This, how are these plot holes? Sounds like someone just wants an excuse to complain. And the council, really? Since when does th council give a damn about ANYTHING you say until you have hard evidence. IE a sound recording like tali found of saron. AND they even said they went to Ilos and vigil was not functioning any longer for them get more info.

Rofl fanboying much? Those are plotholes like it or not. In me 1 the council decides to believe you after hearing a RECORDING of saren. In me 2 the decide not to believe you after studying 30% or more of a dead reaper ship, hearing saren talk about it etc. You are acting like theres no evidence at al in me 2 while there is more than in me 1. Stop being a fanboy and open your eyes. A dev on this forum even stated that the part about the council not believing you was weird and he even took it up with mac walters.

Being a fanboy? How about you stop crying about your non existant plot holes. They studied the ship & they found nothing about the reapers on it, they even said that. Ilos was the only real chance they had at finding real evidence. After that, they concluded it was all geth tech & sarens attempt to trick shepard by using the reapers name. It's no secret the councils in huge denial about the reapers. As much as you complain you sure don't have your damn facts straight. Did I say there was no evidence? Hell no. Did the reaper in ME1 EVER contact shep via ship? No, not once. The only real evidence left would be shepards mind. 

Cry more please. A sound recording of a REAL turian specter. Or a sound recording of him talking about a legend, ie the reapers. That's like trying to convince people that santa is real. How would they know what reaper tech looks like if only been just that, a legend. It only makes sense they have a hard time believing something on you've seen & heard.

I never said you claimed that there was no evidence. I said that you were ACTING like it. Theres a difference. Are you having reading problems m8? :S Theres a difference about denial and retardation and the way bioware wrote the council is illogical and wrong. Alot of people + a dev thinks so. And how exactly is ilos the biggest evidence for a reaper existence? They went there and claimed to have found nothing. Which again doesnt make sense at all. Im not crying im just pointing out. You are the one ranting like a madman. Calm down m8

[SurfaceBeneath]

ArminW68 wrote...
(with some major blunders, like for instance no one even commenting about a frackin actual Geth standing right next to me at the citadel customs while I try to explain that the two Asari are no geth infiltrators... lol)

Geth do not intentionally infiltrate.

[dreman9999]

Sphynx118 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

1. Will be told in ME3.
2,Well it can hold 12 people.
3.It was a personal non mission meeting. How would they know? Kaiden/Ashley just popped up in the mission so they get written in the logs.
4.Outside of you kissing her. The devs wanted to trick  you into thinking she to busy  to want anything from you.
That's why so many people did not chose this option.Link.
In reality she helped  back to life and it afrad to talk to you about it with you and she wants to avange the person that helped he do it. No letter afterwards adds to the trick
5.Their being realistic politians.The Nomandy only have pic of severgn which everyone seen now. It's also mostly a cover up, alot of goverment secret organizations took up most of soverigns parts with cerburis getting the most.
EDI tells you that your enign is soverign bowls. And Garrus give you ships gun that were made from the Turian backward engineering sovergns guns.

1.No it will not. Dont make stuff up.
2.Still doenst explain why it happens.
4. Ash/kaidan gives you a hug so its exactly the same. Everyone gets that dialogue option that you linked, not just those who romanced her.(That means the ones who romanced Liara gets NOTHING while those romancing the others gets a personal mail.) And you run around illium doing quests for her so im pretty sure that gets written in the logs too

1. Oh, It will trust me. Their no reason for BioWare not to bring this up in ME3.
2.It was a bad plan not a plot whole. Even joker rides you for it.
3. I got a handshake from Ashley. And Again you kiss Liara if you romance her, if not a hug. Again the no letter thing is to trick you into leaving Liara for someone else. I was kind of heart broken because of how cold she was but if I choose this option(link again, click it this time.  )I would have stayed with her.And Again, if you romance her she kisses you in this game.

Modifié par dreman9999, 15 février 2010 - 06:14 .

[Sphynx118]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

1. Still not explained at all. Its retarded. Thats the point.

2. yes

3. "Something that just wasnt written in" lol? How exactly is that different from a plothole?

4. Liara is the only one who gets shafted in this department so it would be kinda retarded to bring up ashley here wouldnt it?

5. Perfectly fitting? Thats YOUR opinion isnt it? The whole rant you made about the council is dripping with your personal opinion that the council is retarded by default. Biased much?

1.) Retarded? To not spoon feed the audience every plot point so that there is some mystery surrounding exactly how you were ressurrected and what exactly the Illusive Man's grand scheme is for the third game? That's not retarded, it's sophisticated

2.) Yup

3 and 4.) Because the POINT they were trying to make in ME2 is that your love interests from the first game are disconnected from you. You don't get an e-mail because you spend a ton more time talking to Liara than you do to Ash/Kai. She is meant to treat you at a distance because she is uncomfortable with you and she is meant to be brief with you because she is obsessed with taking down the Shadow Broker. They still have a comic series to finish that might hash out the specifics of that one. Now, I don't think she's terribly well written in the second game, but then again, it was in my opinion that she wasn't ever well written. Either way, she comprises maybe 1% of the total story of the game, so it is not enough to really effect the overall plot of the game. Again, unless you really really really like Liara in a way that makes you so bitter that she wasn't included very much in ME2 to poison the entire product.

5.) No, it's not perfectly fitting based on my opinion. It's perfectly consistent with everything they've done up to that point. I didn't just make the crap up that I said, they were written to be obstructionist and short sighted, more concerned with holding the peace of Council space and the races within it than to be concerned with long term goals. Quite frankly, it seems to me that you're attributing an awful lot of helpfulness and prescience to them that they never had in the first game. You are told that they didn't recover most of the wreckage of Sovereign... given their attitude of denying Shepard's claims all throughout the first game, why would they believe Shepard was right about the Reapers after the event?

1. Im not asking to be spoonfed. What they are doing isnt logical and there is NO evidence that there will be an explanation in me 3.

3. Again -.- The ones who didnt romance her gets the EXACT same dialogue. That doesnt happen with ash does it? No it does not.

5. Your post is still dripping with your opinions m8. You thinking the krogan uplifting was wrong? YOUR OPINION.
Its not claimed to be so ingame. It was a necesary evil some might think. Same with the quarians being victims? YOUR OPINION. Some people might claim that they sealed their own fate when they ignored warnings/laws about AI and started a war with their creations. Its all a matter of perspective. And yours is that the council is always wrong and does things for no logical reason.