103 réponses à ce sujet

[RhythmlessNinja]

Sphynx118 wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

Your definition of a plot hole is screwed up. I'm not saying there aren't a handful of minor ones, I'm saying that you wouldn't know an actual plot hole if it was launched at you with a mass accelerator and ruined your day somewhere and sometime.

^^^^This, how are these plot holes? Sounds like someone just wants an excuse to complain. And the council, really? Since when does th council give a damn about ANYTHING you say until you have hard evidence. IE a sound recording like tali found of saron. AND they even said they went to Ilos and vigil was not functioning any longer for them get more info.

Rofl fanboying much? Those are plotholes like it or not. In me 1 the council decides to believe you after hearing a RECORDING of saren. In me 2 the decide not to believe you after studying 30% or more of a dead reaper ship, hearing saren talk about it etc. You are acting like theres no evidence at al in me 2 while there is more than in me 1. Stop being a fanboy and open your eyes. A dev on this forum even stated that the part about the council not believing you was weird and he even took it up with mac walters.

Being a fanboy? How about you stop crying about your non existant plot holes. They studied the ship & they found nothing about the reapers on it, they even said that. Ilos was the only real chance they had at finding real evidence. After that, they concluded it was all geth tech & sarens attempt to trick shepard by using the reapers name. It's no secret the councils in huge denial about the reapers. As much as you complain you sure don't have your damn facts straight. Did I say there was no evidence? Hell no. Did the reaper in ME1 EVER contact shep via ship? No, not once. The only real evidence left would be shepards mind. 

Cry more please. A sound recording of a REAL turian specter. Or a sound recording of him talking about a legend, ie the reapers. That's like trying to convince people that santa is real. How would they know what reaper tech looks like if only been just that, a legend. It only makes sense they have a hard time believing something on you've seen & heard.

I never said you claimed that there was no evidence. I said that you were ACTING like it. Theres a difference. Are you having reading problems m8? :S Theres a difference about denial and retardation and the way bioware wrote the council is illogical and wrong. Alot of people + a dev thinks so. And how exactly is ilos the biggest evidence for a reaper existence? They went there and claimed to have found nothing. Which again doesnt make sense at all. Im not crying im just pointing out. You are the one ranting like a madman. Calm down m8

So let me get this straight, I'm ranting now? You're the one who posted this plot hole nonsense on this guys thread about how he took back what he said. And I'm the one ranting? Cool story bro.

Anyway, you're saying that I cant read and you just clearly stated something as if you didnt read a thing I said. I never said Ilos was the biggest evidence, I said Ilos was their only chance at REAL evidence. Vigil had more info on the reapers than anything you've found in the entire game. But apparently was no longer working when they went there. And wow a dev disagreed with all the other devs, again...cool story.  And yeah, you are crying my friend. Was it at all necessary to hijack this guys thread about some bs such as this? Nope. Are you complaining about pointless bs that has nothing to do with this guys thread? Yep.

And sure, I'm here just milking your bs but hey, at work & nothing better to do. 

[Sphynx118]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

Your definition of a plot hole is screwed up. I'm not saying there aren't a handful of minor ones, I'm saying that you wouldn't know an actual plot hole if it was launched at you with a mass accelerator and ruined your day somewhere and sometime.

^^^^This, how are these plot holes? Sounds like someone just wants an excuse to complain. And the council, really? Since when does th council give a damn about ANYTHING you say until you have hard evidence. IE a sound recording like tali found of saron. AND they even said they went to Ilos and vigil was not functioning any longer for them get more info.

Rofl fanboying much? Those are plotholes like it or not. In me 1 the council decides to believe you after hearing a RECORDING of saren. In me 2 the decide not to believe you after studying 30% or more of a dead reaper ship, hearing saren talk about it etc. You are acting like theres no evidence at al in me 2 while there is more than in me 1. Stop being a fanboy and open your eyes. A dev on this forum even stated that the part about the council not believing you was weird and he even took it up with mac walters.

Being a fanboy? How about you stop crying about your non existant plot holes. They studied the ship & they found nothing about the reapers on it, they even said that. Ilos was the only real chance they had at finding real evidence. After that, they concluded it was all geth tech & sarens attempt to trick shepard by using the reapers name. It's no secret the councils in huge denial about the reapers. As much as you complain you sure don't have your damn facts straight. Did I say there was no evidence? Hell no. Did the reaper in ME1 EVER contact shep via ship? No, not once. The only real evidence left would be shepards mind. 

Cry more please. A sound recording of a REAL turian specter. Or a sound recording of him talking about a legend, ie the reapers. That's like trying to convince people that santa is real. How would they know what reaper tech looks like if only been just that, a legend. It only makes sense they have a hard time believing something on you've seen & heard.

I never said you claimed that there was no evidence. I said that you were ACTING like it. Theres a difference. Are you having reading problems m8? :S Theres a difference about denial and retardation and the way bioware wrote the council is illogical and wrong. Alot of people + a dev thinks so. And how exactly is ilos the biggest evidence for a reaper existence? They went there and claimed to have found nothing. Which again doesnt make sense at all. Im not crying im just pointing out. You are the one ranting like a madman. Calm down m8

So let me get this straight, I'm ranting now? You're the one who posted this plot hole nonsense on this guys thread about how he took back what he said. And I'm the one ranting? Cool story bro.

Anyway, you're saying that I cant read and you just clearly stated something as if you didnt read a thing I said. I never said Ilos was the biggest evidence, I said Ilos was their only chance at REAL evidence. Vigil had more info on the reapers than anything you've found in the entire game. But apparently was no longer working when they went there. And wow a dev disagreed with all the other devs, again...cool story.  And yeah, you are crying my friend. Was it at all necessary to hijack this guys thread about some bs such as this? Nope. Are you complaining about pointless bs that has nothing to do with this guys thread? Yep.

And sure, I'm here just milking your bs but hey, at work & nothing better to do. 

Lol again with the reading dude.. If you look back you will see that i didnt hijack this thread at all. I posted my opinion and the guy asked for examples. I gave them. Then the fanboy squad rolls in. Reading is hard isnt it?
Your answer to all my claims is "cool story bro?". Thats the best you can do? Lol i was expecting a challenge here Anyway we all see this game different and since you ran out of counters and resorts to the "cool story bro" tac im afraid that we are gonna have to agree on disagreeing

[tkaz85]

If you are in charge of governing half a galaxy and you have a choice as about how to spin the attack on the Citadel, do you:



a) Send the galaxy into a panic by warning everybody about a super-powerful race of sentient machines coming to wipe out all organic life based on the word of a single guy



Say that Sovereign was just another Geth ship and reassure the galaxy that everything is under control, nothing to worry about here



As for the Council not believing Shepard themselves, would YOU be comfortable admitting that there is a d^#n good chance that life as we know it may be about to end? We have a reasonable but unfortunate tendency to believe what we want to be true rather than face an unpleasant alternative.

[General Battuta]

Whatever. If we could get back to intelligent discussion about the story instead of aimless back-and-forth, that'd be great.



I'm starting to think there's a bigger problem than the Reapers. If stars are going to start burning out early (as Tali suggests), then uploading entire civilizations into Reaper platforms may be the only way we can survive.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Sphynx118 wrote...
5. Your post is still dripping with your opinions m8. You thinking the krogan uplifting was wrong? YOUR OPINION.
Its not claimed to be so ingame. It was a necesary evil some might think. Same with the quarians being victims? YOUR OPINION. Some people might claim that they sealed their own fate when they ignored warnings/laws about AI and started a war with their creations. Its all a matter of perspective. And yours is that the council is always wrong and does things for no logical reason.

...

Ok, I'm done. No wonder you hate the story. You weren't paying any attention to it.

[cancausecancer]

General Battuta wrote...

I had earlier posted some suggestions of what I perceived as writing failures in ME2.

I just finished a full replay of Mass Effect 1 and 2 using the same character.

I would like to withdraw any criticism I had of Mass Effect 2's writing vs. Mass Effect 1. The main story is more urgent, more gripping, and ultimately just as rewarding. Everything surrounding it is infinitely superior. The subtle foreshadowing (dark energy, Quarian/Geth war) is masterful. The characters are works of art.

Bioware, please don't throw away what you accomplished with Mass Effect 2. I think it is in just about every respect your finest work yet.

You're a good man.

[Sphynx118]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...
5. Your post is still dripping with your opinions m8. You thinking the krogan uplifting was wrong? YOUR OPINION.
Its not claimed to be so ingame. It was a necesary evil some might think. Same with the quarians being victims? YOUR OPINION. Some people might claim that they sealed their own fate when they ignored warnings/laws about AI and started a war with their creations. Its all a matter of perspective. And yours is that the council is always wrong and does things for no logical reason.

...

Ok, I'm done. No wonder you hate the story. You weren't paying any attention to it.

Your opinion isnt everyones story m8. Im sorry you think that. The story doesnt state anything being extremely wrong or right with some of the councils solutions thats just your opinion again. Perspectives. Look it up

[SurfaceBeneath]

General Battuta wrote...

Whatever. If we could get back to intelligent discussion about the story instead of aimless back-and-forth, that'd be great.

Eh, it's all this forum really knows how to do to be honest. People really react strongly to this kind of thing.

I'm starting to think there's a bigger problem than the Reapers. If stars are going to start burning out early (as Tali suggests), then uploading entire civilizations into Reaper platforms may be the only way we can survive.

I agree. I wonder if sometime during the third game we find out that the Reapers aren't the only big fish looking to take over the galactic pond. The hints are all over the place that there is something up in the galaxy outside the Reaper threat. I'm amazed at how subtle these hints are, not once detracting from the story at hand but creating this fuzzy outline around the story that just begs to be poked and prodded at.

[General Battuta]

Quite so. And when the hints start coming together it's really profoundly chilling.

[Sphynx118]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Whatever. If we could get back to intelligent discussion about the story instead of aimless back-and-forth, that'd be great.

Eh, it's all this forum really knows how to do to be honest. People really react strongly to this kind of thing.

I'm starting to think there's a bigger problem than the Reapers. If stars are going to start burning out early (as Tali suggests), then uploading entire civilizations into Reaper platforms may be the only way we can survive.

I agree. I wonder if sometime during the third game we find out that the Reapers aren't the only big fish looking to take over the galactic pond. The hints are all over the place that there is something up in the galaxy outside the Reaper threat. I'm amazed at how subtle these hints are, not once detracting from the story at hand but creating this fuzzy outline around the story that just begs to be poked and prodded at.

Example of these hints plox?

[General Battuta]

Tali's recruitment and loyalty quests. Conversation with Gianna Parasini on Ilium.

[Computron2000]

Sphynx118 wrote...
Your opinion isnt everyones story m8. Im sorry you think that. The story doesnt state anything being extremely wrong or right with some of the councils solutions thats just your opinion again. Perspectives. Look it up

Don't know about the rest but Mordin in his conversations really thought the Korgan uplift was wrong. He was just not around then or he would have robustly rejected it. You could say its his opinion only but as a story character with fixed conersation choices, you cannot say its a player's opinion.

Thats all i can add

[Draconis6666]

Uh ME 1's entire main story is a giant plot hole it assumes that the councils best agent couldnt walk to the same platform that shepard stands on twice when hes not even a specter without first finding an obscure prothean mass relay in some random backwater system.



Or that sovereign is basicaly indestructable untill you kill his conciousness but is worried about attacking the citadel when he + his geth totaly obliterate the defense fleet and sovereign is having no problems with the human fleet till after his conciousness in saren's body is killed.



Or that saren would just leave the eden prime beacon laying around for you to find and try and destroy it with demo charges when he could jsut take it with him.



Or why cerberus has rachni when they were being created for saren.



Or where exactly tali got voice recordings of saren talking about eden prime with a geth apparently present and then managed to find and kill that geth and salvage its memory core and then go to the citadel (despite having no ship of her own) in the same period of time it takes you to go directly to the citadel from eden prime and talk to the council.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Sphynx118 wrote...
Your opinion isnt everyones story m8. Im sorry you think that. The story doesnt state anything being extremely wrong or right with some of the councils solutions thats just your opinion again. Perspectives. Look it up

So it's just my perspective that uplifting the Krogan caused the genocide of an entire race during the Rachni Wars, the deaths of billions upon billions more in the Krogan rebellions, and then the forced near sterilization of the entire Krogan race? The entire history of the Krogan is the council trying to make a right out of two wrongs.

And the Quarians used to be a respected member of the galactic community. The council completely turned their back on them and let them be driven to near extinction and kicked off their planet. Did the Quarians do wrong making the Geth? Absolutely. Did the Council have any sympathy for the Geth? Not a single bit. The ONLY reason they didn't help the quarians is because they didn't care enough to. That shows for a positive fact that the Council has only ever been concerned with what happens to them in their bubble.

So yes, there is your FACT and not any OPINION that the council acted in ME2 the same way they've always acted. 

[RhythmlessNinja]

So, what "claims" did I answer "cool story" about exactly. Because all we're discussing is the council. From what I see, you can't give a straight answer besides "some people say so" or small pieces of dialogue you pulled out of context from the game. Nothing I've said doesn't make sense, yet you can't give me the "plot hole" of what I've told you. Telling me people & a dev agree, isn't a plot hole it's an excuse.



If you're going to support give me real evidence of this plot hole & prove what I've said about Ilos and the reapers is wrong. Telling me the council is retarded isn't an answer, that's common knowledge. So when you've got your facts about it by all means prove me wrong about what I've said. Till then, have fun with the rest of these peeps in this thread.

[SurfaceBeneath]

General Battuta wrote...

Tali's recruitment and loyalty quests. Conversation with Gianna Parasini on Ilium.

The star behind the Illusive Man.

The Illusive Man's Illusiveness in general.

[DoNotResistHate]

The epic fail in the game for me was that no matter how far i got in the game or what i discovered Anderson never had anything new to say to me I kept going back to the citadel thinking wait till tell Anderson about this. Needless to say when no new conversations opened up i was disappointed.

[sirisaacx]

tkaz85 wrote...

If you are in charge of governing half a galaxy and you have a choice as about how to spin the attack on the Citadel, do you:

a) Send the galaxy into a panic by warning everybody about a super-powerful race of sentient machines coming to wipe out all organic life based on the word of a single guy

Say that Sovereign was just another Geth ship and reassure the galaxy that everything is under control, nothing to worry about here

As for the Council not believing Shepard themselves, would YOU be comfortable admitting that there is a d^#n good chance that life as we know it may be about to end? We have a reasonable but unfortunate tendency to believe what we want to be true rather than face an unpleasant alternative.

Imagine Shepard is Al Gore and the Reapers are global warming.
Each theory has about the same amount of tangible evidence, and both earth governments and the council feel unable to act without tangible evidence. Their reaction seems pretty normal to me.

[addiction21]

There are no waffles in the future. That is a HUGE PLOT HOLE, and very disturbing. No wonder everyone is so angry and delusional in the future since they can not get a proper breakfast.

[SurfaceBeneath]

addiction21 wrote...

There are no waffles in the future. That is a HUGE PLOT HOLE, and very disturbing. No wonder everyone is so angry and delusional in the future since they can not get a proper breakfast.

Have you tried Raman?

It's a delicacy on Earth I hear.

[Sphynx118]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...
Your opinion isnt everyones story m8. Im sorry you think that. The story doesnt state anything being extremely wrong or right with some of the councils solutions thats just your opinion again. Perspectives. Look it up

So it's just my perspective that uplifting the Krogan caused the genocide of an entire race during the Rachni Wars, the deaths of billions upon billions more in the Krogan rebellions, and then the forced near sterilization of the entire Krogan race? The entire history of the Krogan is the council trying to make a right out of two wrongs.

And the Quarians used to be a respected member of the galactic community. The council completely turned their back on them and let them be driven to near extinction and kicked off their planet. Did the Quarians do wrong making the Geth? Absolutely. Did the Council have any sympathy for the Geth? Not a single bit. The ONLY reason they didn't help the quarians is because they didn't care enough to. That shows for a positive fact that the Council has only ever been concerned with what happens to them in their bubble.

So yes, there is your FACT and not any OPINION that the council acted in ME2 the same way they've always acted. 

yes it is.
WIthout the krogans the rachni would have killed us all. They were insanely hostile and didnt use diplomacy at all.
The krogan were gonna take over the whole galaxy. They were given several chances to make peace and even keep the worlds the had stolen from other races. Did they? No. They refused and ran out laughing. Then they fired asteroids at colonized worlds killing millions. They deserved every killed baby they have today. Mordin agrees fully with the genophage and is in his right mind to do so

[Sphynx118]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

So, what "claims" did I answer "cool story" about exactly. Because all we're discussing is the council. From what I see, you can't give a straight answer besides "some people say so" or small pieces of dialogue you pulled out of context from the game. Nothing I've said doesn't make sense, yet you can't give me the "plot hole" of what I've told you. Telling me people & a dev agree, isn't a plot hole it's an excuse.

If you're going to support give me real evidence of this plot hole & prove what I've said about Ilos and the reapers is wrong. Telling me the council is retarded isn't an answer, that's common knowledge. So when you've got your facts about it by all means prove me wrong about what I've said. Till then, have fun with the rest of these peeps in this thread.

Dont be a sore loser m8. Stop derailing

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

addiction21 wrote...

There are no waffles in the future. That is a HUGE PLOT HOLE, and very disturbing. No wonder everyone is so angry and delusional in the future since they can not get a proper breakfast.

Nachos are the future, waffles are so dragon age

*has a sense of deja vu*

[Lonely_Fat_Guy]

Sphynx118 wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...
5. Your post is still dripping with your opinions m8. You thinking the krogan uplifting was wrong? YOUR OPINION.
Its not claimed to be so ingame. It was a necesary evil some might think. Same with the quarians being victims? YOUR OPINION. Some people might claim that they sealed their own fate when they ignored warnings/laws about AI and started a war with their creations. Its all a matter of perspective. And yours is that the council is always wrong and does things for no logical reason.

...

Ok, I'm done. No wonder you hate the story. You weren't paying any attention to it.

Your opinion isnt everyones story m8. Im sorry you think that. The story doesnt state anything being extremely wrong or right with some of the councils solutions thats just your opinion again. Perspectives. Look it up

Hey Sphynx118,

the wilson thing isnt  a plot hole.
some things you need to fill in yourself. not everything needs to be explained too you like a little kid? does it?
in books you use your fantasy to fill in the blanks and how the world is, use it here too.

accordign too the holodata things, its pretty obvious he did it for a big sum of cash. collecters maybe, soemone else? maybe....doesnt need to be explained.

as for Liara, she kissed me, yes the rest was the same, but almost the same as with ashley and the shep who romanced her. its more a design flaw then writing. it takes money and time to do it, so in order to finsih the game they might skiped it.

your fan at the bar is a bug, doesnt matter what you did too him, he will always think you put a gun in his face. a bug not a plothole.

as for the council...yeah...gawd they suck.

i feel the same, not somuch that it made me cry but yeah...

the whole crew leaves for a mission is also abit messy, what doesnt make sence is that you go on a leathel mission like a blue sun merc base that you must destroy and just take 2 people with you! take the whole damn crew!

ohwell, its a great game and it didnt bother me much, its pretty much nitpicking.
ME1 also had its flaws. i love them both, i just like ME2 abit more.
 

[Monstruo696]

Sphynx118 wrote...

1. Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

2. The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

3. Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

4. If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

5. The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

1. The Shadow Broker, perhaps?  No one knows, it's not a plot-hole.

2.  It's assumed you are going off on a mission.  Lack of improvisation on Bioware's part, not a plot-hole.

3.  I wouldn't know, I didn't romance him/her, so I can't really tell if it's either or.

4.  I wouldn't know, I didn't romance her, so I can't really tell if it's either or.

5.  The Council has always been hard-headed, they're just like Udina.  Maybe the idea of Reapers frightens them so badly that they'd rather believe they don't exist. People do that in real life, A LOT.