103 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

addiction21 wrote...

There are no waffles in the future. That is a HUGE PLOT HOLE, and very disturbing. No wonder everyone is so angry and delusional in the future since they can not get a proper breakfast.

Nachos are the future, waffles are so dragon age

*has a sense of deja vu*

In the future the only restaurant chain around is Taco Bell...

Oh wait... am thinking of John Spartan not John Shepherd

[SurfaceBeneath]

Sphynx118 wrote...
yes it is.
WIthout the krogans the rachni would have killed us all. They were insanely hostile and didnt use diplomacy at all.
The krogan were gonna take over the whole galaxy. They were given several chances to make peace and even keep the worlds the had stolen from other races. Did they? No. They refused and ran out laughing. Then they fired asteroids at colonized worlds killing millions. They deserved every killed baby they have today. Mordin agrees fully with the genophage and is in his right mind to do so

And once again you ignore the fact that Mordin only agreed to the Genophage because he felt it was the only possible solution to counteract the complete mistake that the council made in uplifting the Krogan in the first place. He tells you straight away that the Krogan should not have been uplifted and this was a huge mistake.

EDIT: Also, I like how you can't find a defense for the Council abandoning the Quarians. Good going bra.

Edit edit: Ok, I'm done arguing with someone who purposely ignores important plot points so he can justify the story being bad. Off to bed!

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 15 février 2010 - 06:56 .

[Computron2000]

sirisaacx wrote...
Imagine Shepard is Al Gore and the Reapers are global warming.
Each theory has about the same amount of tangible evidence, and both earth governments and the council feel unable to act without tangible evidence. Their reaction seems pretty normal to me.

Good analogy. I even know people who tell me that there is no change in the climate even in recent years washington went under tons of snow, bushfires in the west, snowless in paris, etc all with record breaking temperatures, frequency, etc (Salarian counciler when you bring Legion along). Some people tell me its a massive conspiracy to make money (Turian Counciler). The Asari counciler at least is not unreasonable.

Fortunately its not like the entire council is against you (if you elected Anderson) since the captain has your back. Best decision i made in ME1 too

[Exile Isan]

I'd like to point out that Veetor took extensive scans of the Collectors and the Seeker Swarm on Freedom's Progress and Shepard tells Mordin that they got samples from one of the colonies, probably meaning Veetor's data. It stands to reason that a brilliant scientist like Mordin could use said data and build a seeker from it. They are machines after all.



And Haestrom's sun is not a plot hole, it's foreshadowing. Dark energy is mentioned several times in the game, Haestrom, Veetor tells you the Collectors have lots of dark energy, etc. Bioware is obviously setting something up for ME3.

[Conway044]

Sphynx118 wrote...

Valmy wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

General Battuta wrote...

Examples? I'm not sure there actually are any.

 Who is willson working for and why does he want you dead?

The shuttle part before the normandy crew is abducted?(you suddenly take your WHOLE crew with you out on a mission to a place that isnt specified?)

Kelly/joker not asking about Liara if you romanced her but still asking about Ash/kaidan?

If you romanced Liara you get the EXACT same dialogue as the people who didnt romance her? And no email afterwards(see kaidan/ash).

The council not believing your reaper theory for no logical reason? (cams/instruments on the normady should prove it, sovereigns corpse should prove it, the quarians telling the council that geth dont have that advanced tech should prove it the list goes on)

And those are just a few

Nit picker.

I am sure somebody could fill tomes of whines about ME1's plot also.

Besides we have discussed these issues endlessly on this board.  Not everybody is agreed that these are even flaws.  How is it necessarily bad we do not know every single secret?

As for why you take your whole team I thought that was obvious...the ship has to remain behind to process the IFF so you have to launch your shuttle from further out in this case to get to the objective...so you take your whole team so they will be on hand since you are going to have to use the shuttle as your base of operations instead of the Normandy as usual.  As to where you are going...um you kinda picked that yourself.

He asked for examples and i gave them. If you wanna be a fanboy about it then go ahead lol. Those are holes in the storyline regardless and while some may be minor the whole council part is NOT. A bioware dev even said on this forum that he thought it was weird enough to bring it up with mac walters(lead writer)
 
I can go on if you like:

Mordins little seeker bug? Where and when did we get that? And how did we catch it alive without being stunned?
 
Ashley/kaidan suddenly being unfrozen on Horizon while the other colonists arent?

Conrad verner thinking you shoved a gun in his face when you in fact went paragon on him and not renegade?

Most of your complaints seem to be explained in game or just look like writer choices you disagree with.  I'll just tackle the second group, other than Wilson, who I think everyone has a different theory about, the first set of issues is all explained in game.

When Mordin joins the crew either Shep or Jacob (I can't recall which) tells him that you collected samples of the seeker bugs on Freedom's progress. 

Ashley/Kaidan seems a plot device, though it could be explained in a number of ways if the writers decided to bring it up again. 

Verner seems like a bug importing the ME 1 save game data.  Not sure how that equals a plot hole.

[RhythmlessNinja]

Sphynx118 wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

So, what "claims" did I answer "cool story" about exactly. Because all we're discussing is the council. From what I see, you can't give a straight answer besides "some people say so" or small pieces of dialogue you pulled out of context from the game. Nothing I've said doesn't make sense, yet you can't give me the "plot hole" of what I've told you. Telling me people & a dev agree, isn't a plot hole it's an excuse.

If you're going to support give me real evidence of this plot hole & prove what I've said about Ilos and the reapers is wrong. Telling me the council is retarded isn't an answer, that's common knowledge. So when you've got your facts about it by all means prove me wrong about what I've said. Till then, have fun with the rest of these peeps in this thread.

Dont be a sore loser m8. Stop derailing

Again, you completely avoid it, and how am I derailing? Everyones obviously still going on about your "plot holes".
But like I said, got nothing else to explain to you until you actually have a real explanation of this plot hole here that you said is so very much there.

[Sphynx118]

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

RhythmlessNinja wrote...

So, what "claims" did I answer "cool story" about exactly. Because all we're discussing is the council. From what I see, you can't give a straight answer besides "some people say so" or small pieces of dialogue you pulled out of context from the game. Nothing I've said doesn't make sense, yet you can't give me the "plot hole" of what I've told you. Telling me people & a dev agree, isn't a plot hole it's an excuse.

If you're going to support give me real evidence of this plot hole & prove what I've said about Ilos and the reapers is wrong. Telling me the council is retarded isn't an answer, that's common knowledge. So when you've got your facts about it by all means prove me wrong about what I've said. Till then, have fun with the rest of these peeps in this thread.

Dont be a sore loser m8. Stop derailing

Again, you completely avoid it, and how am I derailing? Everyones obviously still going on about your "plot holes".
But like I said, got nothing else to explain to you until you actually have a real explanation of this plot hole here that you said is so very much there.

Sure. Im gonna be the bigger man here and let it go m8. No problem. Now get back on topic

[addiction21]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

There are no waffles in the future. That is a HUGE PLOT HOLE, and very disturbing. No wonder everyone is so angry and delusional in the future since they can not get a proper breakfast.

Have you tried Raman?

It's a delicacy on Earth I hear.

Real Raman? Yes its some great ****. Very few places here in the U.S.A. I have found that make it. I am content on feeding myself for lunch on a buck fifty every week for the shrink wraped store bought crap tho

Sphynx118 wrote...

Dont be a sore loser m8. Stop derailing

Very typical on the internet of someone with a poor argument and bad eveidence to support their arguements claiming victory when there is no victory to claim.

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Nachos are the future, waffles are so dragon age

*has a sense of deja vu*

Mmmmmmm waffle nachos.... this needs to be done.

[mp84]

I've already done two recent playthroughs of Mass Effect, and now hitting my 2nd character into ME 2 as considered "complete" in terms of playing both games back to back. I will have to agree with the OP, the story elements and even the side quests are better in Mass Effect 2, then 1.



Think about it, all the side quests I did in Mass Effect, from destroying the rogue AI in Earth's Moon, Saving Burns from the L2 Biotics, Helena Blake's mission, and all those other alliance side quest, did that have anything to do with Saren at all?



So instead, ME 2 decided to take a more character driven arch for their side quests, but at the same time, include a lot of ethical and morality choices within those quests. Like, how some have already mentioned, that some of the loyalty missions in the second really have a ethical delima of the over-arching universe behind it. (EG: Krogran problem, Quarian/Geth problem, etc..) It just made the experience way more satisfying.



Honestly, I'm not knocking either game, because for me to go back and play Mass Effect, twice, after ME 2 has been released is saying something about the game, but to knock Mass Effect 2 because of the different routes they took is really just wrong because ME 2 was also a fantastic game.



But naturally everyone is entitled to their opinions I guess.

[Sphynx118]

addiction21 wrote...

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

There are no waffles in the future. That is a HUGE PLOT HOLE, and very disturbing. No wonder everyone is so angry and delusional in the future since they can not get a proper breakfast.

Have you tried Raman?

It's a delicacy on Earth I hear.

Real Raman? Yes its some great ****. Very few places here in the U.S.A. I have found that make it. I am content on feeding myself for lunch on a buck fifty every week for the shrink wraped store bought crap tho

Sphynx118 wrote...

Dont be a sore loser m8. Stop derailing

Very typical on the internet of someone with a poor argument and bad eveidence to support their arguements claiming victory when there is no victory to claim.

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Nachos are the future, waffles are so dragon age

*has a sense of deja vu*

Mmmmmmm waffle nachos.... this needs to be done.

Hi and welcome to the discussion Gj trying to save your fellow fanboy but im afraid it wont work :/ And its "Ramen", Thank you!

[addiction21]

Conway044 wrote...


Verner seems like a bug importing the ME 1 save game data.  Not sure how that equals a plot hole.

Verner regardless of your actions in the first game is trying to act like a total badass in the second part.  He is trying to be a hardcase who kicks ass and chews bubble gum. When you walk up to him he is trying to sell that to the bartended so being confronted with the galaxys biggest badass he trys to keep the act up.


Thats my take on it. Its not plothole or a bug.

[Sphynx118]

addiction21 wrote...

Conway044 wrote...


Verner seems like a bug importing the ME 1 save game data.  Not sure how that equals a plot hole.

Verner regardless of your actions in the first game is trying to act like a total badass in the second part.  He is trying to be a hardcase who kicks ass and chews bubble gum. When you walk up to him he is trying to sell that to the bartended so being confronted with the galaxys biggest badass he trys to keep the act up.


Thats my take on it. Its not plothole or a bug.

Sigh..Did you even listen to the guy? -.- He says shepard shoved a gun in his face. Thats the renegade option in me 1.

Modifié par Sphynx118, 15 février 2010 - 07:16 .

[Draconis6666]

afaik its a confirmed bug in the import

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Sphynx118 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Conway044 wrote...


Verner seems like a bug importing the ME 1 save game data.  Not sure how that equals a plot hole.

Verner regardless of your actions in the first game is trying to act like a total badass in the second part.  He is trying to be a hardcase who kicks ass and chews bubble gum. When you walk up to him he is trying to sell that to the bartended so being confronted with the galaxys biggest badass he trys to keep the act up.


Thats my take on it. Its not plothole or a bug.

Sigh..Did you even listen to the guy? -.- He says shepard shoved a gun in his face. Thats the renegade option in me 1.

Yeah and where is Verner in ME2 on a full renegade choice, oh yeah thats right. DEAD.

As Addiction stated, that was just Conrad doing his usual BS talk. If you can't comprehend that, then you really are thick as you are making yourself look throughout this topic.

[Harcken]

Mass Effect 1, to me, had a few more plot holes than 2, the dialogue, for the most part was passive and boring; and on top of that, the gameplay was horrendous. Especially the whole scene with Sovereign, unless the devs can explain Reaper motivations and origins in ME3, the whole "Organic life is a genetic mutation," and "You cannot fathom/understand me," came off as a silly excuse for a dev that didn't know what to say. Everytime I hear "Organic life is a genetic mutation," my brain kinda throws up, perhaps out of too much laughter.

The one thing I like in ME1 over ME2, is the sense of secrecy surrounding the story. Unless you spoiled the game by watching all of the ME1 vids and knowing beforehand the whole story, it was a nice "omg" story. In ME2, I learned nothing new at all, I appreciate getting an in depth look into political conflicts and the various workings of several planets, however, I missed the mystery of a striking main narrative.

I knew about the collectors, knew about abductions, already guessed that they were Protheans, near the start of ME2. The only "wtf" moment I had was the final scene with the human reaper. This is the same problem that I believe Dragon Age suffers from as well. Great "side-ish quests" that take you around the countryside giving you an in depth look into the universe, yet the main plot stays the same from the first hour to the last.

Modifié par Harcken, 15 février 2010 - 07:24 .

[deimosmasque]

*Sigh* Can we please ban the terms troll and fanboy from this forum.



Not everyone who liked ME2 and doesn't see the same flaws as you are fanboys

Not everyone who disliked ME2 or considers things flaws that you do not are trolls.

[Sphynx118]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Conway044 wrote...


Verner seems like a bug importing the ME 1 save game data.  Not sure how that equals a plot hole.

Verner regardless of your actions in the first game is trying to act like a total badass in the second part.  He is trying to be a hardcase who kicks ass and chews bubble gum. When you walk up to him he is trying to sell that to the bartended so being confronted with the galaxys biggest badass he trys to keep the act up.


Thats my take on it. Its not plothole or a bug.

Sigh..Did you even listen to the guy? -.- He says shepard shoved a gun in his face. Thats the renegade option in me 1.

Yeah and where is Verner in ME2 on a full renegade choice, oh yeah thats right. DEAD.

As Addiction stated, that was just Conrad doing his usual BS talk. If you can't comprehend that, then you really are thick as you are making yourself look throughout this topic.

Its a confirmed bug you retard. Gj making yourself look bad

[Tamcia]

The experience you got by playing ME1 for thirst time is different then you got now. Different impression, completely new universe, new characters etc.



With that in mind you played ME2 and got another experience. After this - you replay ME1 and the experience this time completely differs from that several years ago.



My point - its hard to compare objectively. There are a lot of things I like about ME2, but also some things I miss from ME1 (like Liara, fights with mako - not the mindless planet exploration, more abilities etc).

[addiction21]

Sphynx118 wrote...

Its a confirmed bug you retard. Gj making yourself look bad

Again resulting to insults does nothing for your case. I am looking at the moment but you would not have a link to a dev states it is in fact a bug and will be fixed.

[Chained_Creator]

deimosmasque wrote...

*Sigh* Can we please ban the terms troll and fanboy from this forum.

Not everyone who liked ME2 and doesn't see the same flaws as you are fanboys
Not everyone who disliked ME2 or considers things flaws that you do not are trolls.

But it's so much easier to stick disingenuous little labels on people who disagree with you and dismiss their arguments as flawed because of overarching bias that comes from being one of those so labeled.

[JedTed]

I liked the direct linier story of ME1 but i agree that ME2 is better for portraying the larger universe, which before you only read about in the codex or the novels.



It's clear that ME2 is the game Bioware wanted with ME1 but were confined by technical limitations.

[addiction21]

Chained_Creator wrote...

deimosmasque wrote...

*Sigh* Can we please ban the terms troll and fanboy from this forum.

Not everyone who liked ME2 and doesn't see the same flaws as you are fanboys
Not everyone who disliked ME2 or considers things flaws that you do not are trolls.

But it's so much easier to stick disingenuous little labels on people who disagree with you and dismiss their arguments as flawed because of overarching bias that comes from being one of those so labeled.

That wa a lot of big words.

ENCHANTMENT!!!!

[Chained_Creator]

Wow, site failure.

Modifié par Chained_Creator, 15 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

This is a really off-topic thread.

[Canez fan 1988]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

I still think that when people argue that ME1 is a better game than ME2 they're arguing from nostalgia.

They are. There is no way a level headed person can make an argument saying that ME1 did anything better than ME2.

Great post by the OP.