203 réponses à ce sujet

[beserker7]

OP: Changed my profile photo to represent my man Anderson. The best NPC in ME. Someone you can actually trust.

[Sniper11709]

beserker7 wrote...

Leonick91 wrote...

And i thought Kaiden and specially Ashley were blind, just like most alliance guys... Seems to be that way here to, people just don't want to see facts... You know Cerberus have done some bad things and because of it you wont see facts or reason, ell you sure fit in the alliance

Another fact for you guys, Cerbrus operate largely trough many independent cells, just because one does something and does not mean the organization is evil...

Really hope Cerberus will be involved in ME3, sure I hope the alliance and the council wake up and is of some use by the end, but if it wasn't for Cerberus we would be dead...

I don't remember the Alliance releasing Thresher Maws on people, kidnapping and performing torturous experiments on children and other test subjects. Cerberus doesn't even care about the colonies, its only a ploy by there political wing to garner support from colonists and to de-stablize the Alliance. They only see the Reaper tech as a means to secure there dominance. They are evil and Paragon Shepard wouldn't stand for it.

Cerberus is a group that's a cross between a criminal species/racial supremacy movement or gang and a rogue criminal Private Military Contractor.

The Alliance is like NATO/UN and the Spectres are like the galaxy's top super cops/agents, IMO. 

No the alliance most certainly didn't convince the parents of the first generation Biotics that they were dangerous so that they could hand them over to Turian mercenries,Installing implants that cause migrianes and can even cause death, no not at all.

Where did you get the idea Cerberus dosen't care about the colonies? Do whatever it takes renegades, yes but i never got the idea they didn't care for humans.

[Anacronian Stryx]

beserker7 wrote...

I don't remember the Alliance releasing Thresher Maws on people, kidnapping and performing torturous experiments on children and other test subjects. . 

Kaidan might disagree with you.

[SirVincealot]

ratzerman wrote...
Same here.  I hated working for Cerberus.  

Good! You're *supposed* to hate it: you just became indedted to a group of neo-fascist thugs. And not just any debt: you owe them your very continued existence!

It made you feel something. That's good writing.

It sparked this continued debate: further good writing.

SirV

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

SirVincealot wrote...

ratzerman wrote...
Same here.  I hated working for Cerberus.  

Good! You're *supposed* to hate it: you just became indedted to a group of neo-fascist thugs. And not just any debt: you owe them your very continued existence!

It made you feel something. That's good writing.

It sparked this continued debate: further good writing.

SirV

My Shepherd owes them nothing at all, period. So they brought me back, good for them.

Given the chance in ME3, if i'm still on their leash i'll kill any cerberus operatives in my way, Miranda included if need be.

[Leonick91]

No, cerberus is a group which does what needs to be done, its the human response to the salarians special taskgroup, the alliance were just to lazy to create it themselves... really there cerberus might as well be a part of the alliance only said to be rogue to be able to do what they must like a true black ops division, sponsored by a government that denies any connection...



Yes cerbrus has done some bad things but i am pretty damn sure you can find real bad things tied to any government tied agency or the military for any of the main species too...



Really, in any game or in real life for that matter i am a real goody two shoes if i dont really make an effort not to be, and i still side with cerberus

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Leonick91 wrote...

No, cerberus is a group which does what needs to be done, its the human response to the salarians special taskgroup, the alliance were just to lazy to create it themselves... really there cerberus might as well be a part of the alliance only said to be rogue to be able to do what they must like a true black ops division, sponsored by a government that denies any connection...

Yes cerbrus has done some bad things but i am pretty damn sure you can find real bad things tied to any government tied agency or the military for any of the main species too...

Really, in any game or in real life for that matter i am a real goody two shoes if i dont really make an effort not to be, and i still side with cerberus

So the end justifies the means? Still doesn't make it right though.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Cerberus have done nasty and despicable things, People just tend to forget that the Council have done even worse things of a much larger scale, Like elevating an entire race for sole purpose of using them as shock troops against another race in a war..and then turn around and releasing a bio weapon on "their" troops.. I'm not saying that it wasn't necessary but people should stop believing that the Council and the Alliance is any "better" than Cerberus.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 15 février 2010 - 06:45 .

[beserker7]

Sniper11709 wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

Leonick91 wrote...

And i thought Kaiden and specially Ashley were blind, just like most alliance guys... Seems to be that way here to, people just don't want to see facts... You know Cerberus have done some bad things and because of it you wont see facts or reason, ell you sure fit in the alliance

Another fact for you guys, Cerbrus operate largely trough many independent cells, just because one does something and does not mean the organization is evil...

Really hope Cerberus will be involved in ME3, sure I hope the alliance and the council wake up and is of some use by the end, but if it wasn't for Cerberus we would be dead...

I don't remember the Alliance releasing Thresher Maws on people, kidnapping and performing torturous experiments on children and other test subjects. Cerberus doesn't even care about the colonies, its only a ploy by there political wing to garner support from colonists and to de-stablize the Alliance. They only see the Reaper tech as a means to secure there dominance. They are evil and Paragon Shepard wouldn't stand for it.

Cerberus is a group that's a cross between a criminal species/racial supremacy movement or gang and a rogue criminal Private Military Contractor.

The Alliance is like NATO/UN and the Spectres are like the galaxy's top super cops/agents, IMO. 

No the alliance most certainly didn't convince the parents of the first generation Biotics that they were dangerous so that they could hand them over to Turian mercenries,Installing implants that cause migrianes and can even cause death, no not at all.

Where did you get the idea Cerberus dosen't care about the colonies? Do whatever it takes renegades, yes but i never got the idea they didn't care for humans.

No one said the Alliance or Spectres were perfect or hadn't made aweful mistakes, but at least they have oversight/laws that are suppose to govern them. The Spectres answer to the Council and the Alliance to chain of command and elected representatives.

Cerberus can commit illegal or wrongful acts has no oversight and answers only to the Illusive Man. A one man dictatorship who spouts a human first manifesto. I choose the Spectres first, Alliance second. I would hunt down and destroy Cerberus still. For Kahoku! 

[Allen63]

Cerberus makes sense for the reasons alluded in ME2. Those are:



Civilized politicians are not exceptionally bright but they are mostly weak, and preoccupied with making the public like them. Sacrifice and preemptive war -- even to save civilization -- would not be countenanced by the majority of politicians. At least on Earth in 2010AD.



A radical, bellicose, terrorist, "human supremacy" group (Cerberus) would be most likely to "go to war" to save the "human race". If saving the human race saved the rest of the sentients in the galaxy -- that's a byproduct.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

Allen63 wrote...

Cerberus makes sense for the reasons alluded in ME2. Those are:

Civilized politicians are not exceptionally bright but they are mostly weak, and preoccupied with making the public like them. Sacrifice and preemptive war -- even to save civilization -- would not be countenanced by the majority of politicians. At least on Earth in 2010AD.

A radical, bellicose, terrorist, "human supremacy" group (Cerberus) would be most likely to "go to war" to save the "human race". If saving the human race saved the rest of the sentients in the galaxy -- that's a byproduct.

So you'd support 1930's Germany?

Modifié par Big_Stupid_Jelly, 15 février 2010 - 06:49 .

[Allen63]

Big_Stupid_Jelly wrote...

Allen63 wrote...

Cerberus makes sense for the reasons alluded in ME2. Those are:

Civilized politicians are not exceptionally bright but they are mostly weak, and preoccupied with making the public like them. Sacrifice and preemptive war -- even to save civilization -- would not be countenanced by the majority of politicians. At least on Earth in 2010AD.

A radical, bellicose, terrorist, "human supremacy" group (Cerberus) would be most likely to "go to war" to save the "human race". If saving the human race saved the rest of the sentients in the galaxy -- that's a byproduct.

So you'd support 1930's Germany?

Huh?

These days, people all too soon resort to that "cliche" line of thought. It does not fit, if one understands what I wrote -- though I would expect it from a political idealogue. However, I imagine none of us here fit that descripion. So, it must be that I did not communicate -- my bad

[Sniper11709]

beserker7 wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

I don't remember the Alliance releasing Thresher Maws on people, kidnapping and performing torturous experiments on children and other test subjects. Cerberus doesn't even care about the colonies, its only a ploy by there political wing to garner support from colonists and to de-stablize the Alliance. They only see the Reaper tech as a means to secure there dominance. They are evil and Paragon Shepard wouldn't stand for it.

Cerberus is a group that's a cross between a criminal species/racial supremacy movement or gang and a rogue criminal Private Military Contractor.

The Alliance is like NATO/UN and the Spectres are like the galaxy's top super cops/agents, IMO. 

No the alliance most certainly didn't convince the parents of the first generation Biotics that they were dangerous so that they could hand them over to Turian mercenries,Installing implants that cause migrianes and can even cause death, no not at all.

Where did you get the idea Cerberus dosen't care about the colonies? Do whatever it takes renegades, yes but i never got the idea they didn't care for humans.

No one said the Alliance or Spectres were perfect or hadn't made aweful mistakes, but at least they have oversight/laws that are suppose to govern them. The Spectres answer to the Council and the Alliance to chain of command and elected representatives.

Cerberus can commit illegal or wrongful acts has no oversight and answers only to the Illusive Man. A one man dictatorship who spouts a human first manifesto. I choose the Spectres first, Alliance second. I would hunt down and destroy Cerberus still. For Kahoku! 

Are you honestly trying to backpedal when your statment is in the quote, "I don't remember the Alliance.......... " sounds like you were trying to say that they don't do that that type of thing when in fact they do the exact same thing.

Please tell me your joking about the Spectres having oversight/laws governing them. One of the main points of the first game was that the Spectres had no rules/laws against anything except treason, They don't care about the methods they just want the job done which is precisely what Cerberus does.

The Alliance skirts the law whenever it wants. They have the Biotic Acclimation and Temperance Training, Forbidden AI research, they started Cerberus. Do i need to go on.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 15 février 2010 - 07:05 .

[Leonick91]

Captain Cornhole wrote...
Cerberus has done some good, but that dose'nt excuse their past actions. In my opinion they are still terrorists.

And the alliance has done some preatty bad things but no one complains about that...
Sam goes for Salarians and Turians and probably the Asari too...

It's not like we have the entire track record of Cerberus... Or any one else for that matter... People here judge an enormous organization by a few bad deeds, it's as sick as people who hate the entire german people and their country because of what the ****s did during ww2...

The one or possibly few cell(s) that did the experiments in ME1 could might as well have been the only and more or less rogues...
Didnt the cell working with subjet zero disobey several orders, might be misstaken but i think i heard that...

Cerberus most certainly has it's own rules and regulations and a clear chain of command for every cell.

[beserker7]

Sniper11709 wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

I don't remember the Alliance releasing Thresher Maws on people, kidnapping and performing torturous experiments on children and other test subjects. Cerberus doesn't even care about the colonies, its only a ploy by there political wing to garner support from colonists and to de-stablize the Alliance. They only see the Reaper tech as a means to secure there dominance. They are evil and Paragon Shepard wouldn't stand for it.

Cerberus is a group that's a cross between a criminal species/racial supremacy movement or gang and a rogue criminal Private Military Contractor.

The Alliance is like NATO/UN and the Spectres are like the galaxy's top super cops/agents, IMO. 

No the alliance most certainly didn't convince the parents of the first generation Biotics that they were dangerous so that they could hand them over to Turian mercenries,Installing implants that cause migrianes and can even cause death, no not at all.

Where did you get the idea Cerberus dosen't care about the colonies? Do whatever it takes renegades, yes but i never got the idea they didn't care for humans.

No one said the Alliance or Spectres were perfect or hadn't made aweful mistakes, but at least they have oversight/laws that are suppose to govern them. The Spectres answer to the Council and the Alliance to chain of command and elected representatives.

Cerberus can commit illegal or wrongful acts has no oversight and answers only to the Illusive Man. A one man dictatorship who spouts a human first manifesto. I choose the Spectres first, Alliance second. I would hunt down and destroy Cerberus still. For Kahoku! 

Are you honestly trying to backpedal when your statment is in the quote, "I don't remember the Alliance.......... " sounds like you were trying to say that they don't do that that type of thing when in fact they do the exact same thing.

Please tell me your joking about the Spectres having oversight/laws governing them. One of the main points of the first game was that the Spectres had no rules/laws against anything except treason, They don't care about the methods they just want the job done which is precisely what Cerberus does.

The Alliance skirts the law whenever it wants. They have the Biotic Acclimation and Temperance Training, Forbidden AI research, they started Cerberus. Do i need to go on.

I'm not back peddleing at all, just stating the game facts. The Alliance did not do those things, Cerberus did. The Alliance & Cerberus are not the same. To go back to Cerberus being contracted by the Alliance,you have to go back to events before ME1. They went completely rouge in ME1, per Adminral Kahoku, whom they killed BTW.

The Spectres are regulated/governed by the Council, nuff said.

No, please don't go on. You like Cerberus methods and have no problem working for them, thats your right. I would rather have remained a true Spectre in ME2 and I don't think a Paragon Shepard would ally with Cerberus at all, as its was written in ME2, that's my right. 

[thegreateski]

The moment that the Alliance and the Council get their heads out of their arse I'll go back to them.



Till then? Cerberus all the way.

[Sidac]

I loved working with cerberus. They got **** done. I just wish there was a way to end the game on a positive note with TIM even though I *SPOILER* blew up the station. *SPOILER*

Modifié par Sidac, 15 février 2010 - 07:35 .

[Revik]

beserker7 wrote...

I just wanted to hear some peoples thoughts on the installation of Cerberus in main story of ME2. I just keep thinking there's no point to making them so central to ME2. The Alliance and the Spectres/Council could have easily saved Shepard and had the same motive(stopping the Collectors/Reapers). Instead the Council looks like even bigger tools in ME2 and so does the Alliance, after all the events that ended ME1. 
 
Everyone was established in ME1; Cerberus was a sub-plot rogue villain group, doing some really bad things to people, the Alliance were the relative good guys, and the Spectres were the "best of the best", protectors of the Galaxy.

It seems the ME2 story bringing in Cerberus only makes sense if you were a total Renegade Shepard in ME1. In 1 you could support Terra Firma Party, kill the council, and basically act like Cerberus. If you were Paragon Sherpard, after ME1, theres no way your joining Cerberus, I don't care.

Most of my Shepard saved characters were the Sole Survivor of the Thresher Maw attack, which Cerberus was behind in ME1! Take that personal experience, with all the other stuff they did in ME1, and the fact that my most trusted friend Captain Anderson says in ME2, I can't trust them, and I'm out. No way my Shepard works or trusts them in any way and I don't believe the council or the Alliance would turn there back so easily on the savior of the Citadel, the first human Spectre.

Not hating on Bioware here, just think you could have taken the darker story approach, without making Shepard ally with a known villain group from ME1. Spectres can do anything, go anywhere, remember? If you want me on staff for the writing in ME3, let me know. 

EDIT: Really sorry, thought I was in the Spoilers forum. Please move. I apologize.

I honestly don't see what the problem is.  Only Cerberus would bother bringing someone like Shepard back from the dead.  The Council while grateful for your actions would not bother going to the extra lengths of bringing Shepard back to life let alone the possible ethical implications of doing so.

I think some people are getting some events mixed up with Cerberus.  Cerberus did kill Khahoku and did do extra experiments thresher maw and the Thorian.  But it was the greedy corporations that did firstly did the actual live experiements with the colonist on Feros NOT Cerberus.  Cerberus I don't think were linked to the Rachni either.  That was also the work of greedy corporations.

Another person posted that Spectres don't conduct live experiements.  Saren was using live subjects to study Sovereign's indoctrination. 

In the end I think it was a good ploy by Bioware.  Forcing Shepard to work with a rogue and mostly morally suspect organization puts Shepard in many instances of "lesser of two evils" rather than the obvious good or evil choices.

Edit: Another thing I wanted to add is that in ME1 the intro mission on Eden Prime and your subsequent meeting with the Council you learn on the Citadel that everything takes too long and is choked with rules and regulations.  Indeed you can even say that the Council acknowledges this inefficiency with the employment of their Spectres organization having such free reign.  So doing anything large scale like protection of the Terminus systems is carefully weighed even with lives on the line. 

Modifié par Revik, 15 février 2010 - 07:45 .

[NoShtSherlock]

beserker7 wrote...

Leonick91 wrote...

And i thought Kaiden and specially Ashley were blind, just like most alliance guys... Seems to be that way here to, people just don't want to see facts... You know Cerberus have done some bad things and because of it you wont see facts or reason, ell you sure fit in the alliance

Another fact for you guys, Cerbrus operate largely trough many independent cells, just because one does something and does not mean the organization is evil...

Really hope Cerberus will be involved in ME3, sure I hope the alliance and the council wake up and is of some use by the end, but if it wasn't for Cerberus we would be dead...

I don't remember the Alliance releasing Thresher Maws on people, kidnapping and performing torturous experiments on children and other test subjects. Cerberus doesn't even care about the colonies, its only a ploy by there political wing to garner support from colonists and to de-stablize the Alliance. They only see the Reaper tech as a means to secure there dominance. They are evil and Paragon Shepard wouldn't stand for it.

Cerberus is a group that's a cross between a criminal species/racial supremacy movement or gang and a rogue criminal Private Military Contractor.

The Alliance is like NATO/UN and the Spectres are like the galaxy's top super cops/agents, IMO. 

Cerberus were the ones who released the Threasher Maws and it was also Cerberus who did experiments on children and other test subjects.

[Sniper11709]

beserker7 wrote...

I'm not back peddleing at all, just stating the game facts. The Alliance did not do those things, Cerberus did. The Alliance & Cerberus are not the same. To go back to Cerberus being contracted by the Alliance,you have to go back to events before ME1. They went completely rouge in ME1, per Adminral Kahoku, whom they killed BTW.

The Spectres are regulated/governed by the Council, nuff said.

No, please don't go on. You like Cerberus methods and have no problem working for them, thats your right. I would rather have remained a true Spectre in ME2 and I don't think a Paragon Shepard would ally with Cerberus at all, as its was written in ME2, that's my right. 

How on earth is Cerberus responsible for the BAaT, they may not have even existed at the time.

The Spectres are regulated to the point that  they can do anything they want as long as it dosen't blow up in the councils faces. Saren goes and blows up a refinery with all it's workers inside and they don't give a ****, He leaks the fact that a human VIP is getting extarcted resulting in the loss of a squad of infantry and a ship and they don't do anything about it. But as soon as it's proved that he attacked a human colony they set him loose so the oversight is only to make sure nothing is done to harm the Citadels reputation. So no, not "nuff said".

It is your right to believe that but it's also my right to answer extremely stupid statments posted by naive paragons, So I'll stop going on if you'll stop with the idiocy.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 15 février 2010 - 07:49 .

[Sniper11709]

@Revik

Actully Cerberus does conduct experiments with Creepers,Rachni and possibly husks. All of them are in ME1 side missions.

[phimseto]

My regret is that you never run into a Spectre in ME2. It would have been cool if *you* had been the one being investigated or you run into a Spectre on some other mission. Hopfeully, for a DLC...

[synergys2k]

Cerberus is a necessary evil. 

1. Cerberus was an outstanding idea for ME2. It took me awhile to get used to working for/with Cerberus. Yes, they are ruthless to the extreme, but I'm not. I knew I was in control of every situation, no matter the circumstances. (I was/am an 80%-20% Paragon Shep).

2. Cerberus rebuilt and reanimated you. This "Project Lazarus" (reference to Christian Bible) cost Cerberus upwards of four billion credits. The Alliance and/or the Council would never spend that kind of money to reanimate one man for any reason. Both are having serious fiscal issues.

3. Cerberus provided you with a state of the art "stealth" frigate costing at least two hundred billion credits.

4. Cerberus gives a damn about the safety, advancement and dominance of humanity. I extended that ideal to giving a damn about the safety, advancement and dominance of humans, Turians, Quarians, etc., etc. 

5. The Council and the Alliance believe the Reapers do no exist with the exception of Councillor/Captain Anderson. They also seem to think Shepard has a few screws loose upstairs. Add to that the fact the Council wants to charge you with treason, and you understand why Cerberus is a necessary evil. 

[GenkiZer0]

In defence for cerberus if you listen to Jack and pay close attn to her loyalty mission. it seems that most of those "BAD" things that Cerberus was doint were from rogue scientists and triied to keep. the info from TIM, However TIM does find out in the end.

I'm still not trusting TIM. After all TIM wants to replace the Allience w/ Cerberus...

But it just seems that Cerberus is using Shep to kill the biggest threat so they can kill the smaller dog w/ fear. leaving the Allience looking weak and incapable. But What is TIM??? I'm getting a wierd feeling he's more connected to the Reapers than Humanity. Just thinking Reaper control Saren/Collectors at will for years. Why not TIM? plus his info is way too accurate. even for an Info Broker.