203 réponses à ce sujet

[SmilingMirror]

Tleining wrote...

@ beserker7
ehrm, Cerberus was an Alliance Black ops Group, that only recently (in ME1) went rogue. So the Thresher Maws could very well have happened before the group going rogue. And Jack was definitely during that time.
How are they more or less evil than the Spectres and as such the Council? Think about what Saren, an Agent of the Council, did while still being a Spectre (mission with Anderson). He got the job done, even though hundreds of innocents died. And that is what Spectres do.
Oh, and you might wanna read about Biotic Acclimation and Temperance Training. Wasn't as cruel as Jacks Facility, but it wasn't good either.

Wrong, Cerberus is more than just an Alliance Black ops group, I suggest you read your ME2 codex under organizations. Also, Toombs suffered the same attack as the sole survivor background so they have been at the game for a long time. Its more likely that Kohaku meant Cerberus was the name of a black ops group that had been rogue for quite a long time in secret and then they officially splintered off into the "real" Cerberus that we know of ME2.

[Xpardox91X]

If I could, go back with the Council and/or Alliance. for sure 

[Anacronian Stryx]

IronVanguard wrote...

Hopefully in ME3 you get to choose.

Or heck, maybe work with neither if you like. You're Shepard. Spectre or not, Cerberus or not. Who the hell is gonna stop you?

My hope is that in ME3 it is realized by Shepard that The Council, The Alliance and Cerberus is all malfunctioning groups and he/she gets the chance to build an organization that actually works.

[Costin_Razvan]

Cerberus has it flaws, but as an organization it is quite well done. I have no moral issue working with them and giving them the reaper base. Wars are not won by being a good guy, wars are won by bloodshed.

[GHOST OF FRUITY]

Although I don't trust Cerberus an inch, the Alliance have no backbone and don't take the threat of the Reapers seriously. Tough choice, but wars an ugly business so i'll stick with Cerberus.

[AllenShepard]

I miss the Alliance.

[jkruse05]

I'd rather go back to the Alliance, better to be on your own and know it than work for someone that deliberately sends you into traps of his own design, not mention without giving you the option to blow the crap out of said traps. i.e. Upgraded cannons? Derelict Collector ship? BOOM!

[AnathamaDye]

I don't mind it, it might be setting up the third one where you can choose to stay with Cerberus or rejoin the Alliance.  Though in both games I went my own route and never listened to either side. 

[beserker7]

GHOST OF FRUITY wrote...

Although I don't trust Cerberus an inch, the Alliance have no backbone and don't take the threat of the Reapers seriously. Tough choice, but wars an ugly business so i'll stick with Cerberus.

Anderson takes the Reapers seriously and would certainly pull weight with the Alliance, if not the Council. The problem is there's really no dialog in ME2 dealing with what the Alliance is doing to plan to stop the Reapers or Collectors.

To some others comments about the Council not getting involved. It's true they wouldn't, as the abductions are in theTerminus System but the Alliance sent Kaiden/Ashley and would surely have been involved in finding and fighting the Collectors. This is just ignored in ME2.  

In ME2 the Alliance is just forgotten about in favor of Cerberus. 

[obie191970]

beserker7 wrote...

To some others comments about the Council not getting involved. It's true they wouldn't, as the abductions are in theTerminus System but the Alliance sent Kaiden/Ashley and would surely have been involved in finding and fighting the Collectors. This is just ignored in ME2.  

There is heavy speculation if you do a Renegade playthrough that Ashley/Kaiden were sent there through someone in the Alliance on the Cerberus payroll.  They were sent there to instigate the Collectors into attacking seeing the Collectors would be fully aware of Ashley/Kaiden's connection with Shepard.  TIM's reach is far and wide.

[beserker7]

obie191970 wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

To some others comments about the Council not getting involved. It's true they wouldn't, as the abductions are in theTerminus System but the Alliance sent Kaiden/Ashley and would surely have been involved in finding and fighting the Collectors. This is just ignored in ME2.  

There is heavy speculation if you do a Renegade playthrough that Ashley/Kaiden were sent there through someone in the Alliance on the Cerberus payroll.  They were sent there to instigate the Collectors into attacking seeing the Collectors would be fully aware of Ashley/Kaiden's connection with Shepard.  TIM's reach is far and wide.

TIM will be tried before the Council and/or the Alliance for the death of Admiral Kahoku & other crimes in ME3, Ha. Actually, taking him down after the final mission in ME2 would have been epic!  

Modifié par beserker7, 15 février 2010 - 10:57 .

[uzivatel]

I like the fact they used Cerberus.
On one hand, they saved Shepards ass early in the second game and some of their short term goals may similar to Shepards goals. On the other hand Shepard has history with them and they are some of the worst criminals in the galaxy.
It sure made certain parts of the game much more interesting.

Modifié par uzivatel, 15 février 2010 - 11:17 .

[Sniper11709]

obie191970 wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

To some others comments about the Council not getting involved. It's true they wouldn't, as the abductions are in theTerminus System but the Alliance sent Kaiden/Ashley and would surely have been involved in finding and fighting the Collectors. This is just ignored in ME2.  

There is heavy speculation if you do a Renegade playthrough that Ashley/Kaiden were sent there through someone in the Alliance on the Cerberus payroll.  They were sent there to instigate the Collectors into attacking seeing the Collectors would be fully aware of Ashley/Kaiden's connection with Shepard.  TIM's reach is far and wide.

Huh? You can blatently ask TIM if he leaked the information and he says yes so why is there speculation?

[Policyofnoreturn]

Wake up - Cerberus experimented with Husks - makes them practically equivalent to the reapers. There is no *way* my Shepard would side with them - but in ME2 she's conveniently killed and reconstructed by Cerberus while the council twiddles their thumbs.

Modifié par Policyofnoreturn, 16 février 2010 - 12:53 .

[StormbringerGT]

beserker7 wrote...

I just wanted to hear some peoples thoughts on the installation of Cerberus in main story of ME2. I just keep thinking there's no point to making them so central to ME2. The Alliance and the Spectres/Council could have easily saved Shepard and had the same motive(stopping the Collectors/Reapers). Instead the Council looks like even bigger tools in ME2 and so does the Alliance, after all the events that ended ME1. 
 
Everyone was established in ME1; Cerberus was a sub-plot rogue villain group, doing some really bad things to people, the Alliance were the relative good guys, and the Spectres were the "best of the best", protectors of the Galaxy.

It seems the ME2 story bringing in Cerberus only makes sense if you were a total Renegade Shepard in ME1. In 1 you could support Terra Firma Party, kill the council, and basically act like Cerberus. If you were Paragon Sherpard, after ME1, theres no way your joining Cerberus, I don't care.

Most of my Shepard saved characters were the Sole Survivor of the Thresher Maw attack, which Cerberus was behind in ME1! Take that personal experience, with all the other stuff they did in ME1, and the fact that my most trusted friend Captain Anderson says in ME2, I can't trust them, and I'm out. No way my Shepard works or trusts them in any way and I don't believe the council or the Alliance would turn there back so easily on the savior of the Citadel, the first human Spectre.

Not hating on Bioware here, just think you could have taken the darker story approach, without making Shepard ally with a known villain group from ME1. Spectres can do anything, go anywhere, remember?  



EDIT: Really sorry, thought I was in the Spoilers forum. Please move. I apologize.

Good points. You should read the second Mass Effect Novel. Shines a lot of light on Cerberus and explains that little stint where why Cerberus and the Quarians hate each other so much. They touch on the subject but the book is about that!

Modifié par StormbringerGT, 16 février 2010 - 12:56 .

[beserker7]

StormbringerGT wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

I just wanted to hear some peoples thoughts on the installation of Cerberus in main story of ME2. I just keep thinking there's no point to making them so central to ME2. The Alliance and the Spectres/Council could have easily saved Shepard and had the same motive(stopping the Collectors/Reapers). Instead the Council looks like even bigger tools in ME2 and so does the Alliance, after all the events that ended ME1. 
 
Everyone was established in ME1; Cerberus was a sub-plot rogue villain group, doing some really bad things to people, the Alliance were the relative good guys, and the Spectres were the "best of the best", protectors of the Galaxy.

It seems the ME2 story bringing in Cerberus only makes sense if you were a total Renegade Shepard in ME1. In 1 you could support Terra Firma Party, kill the council, and basically act like Cerberus. If you were Paragon Sherpard, after ME1, theres no way your joining Cerberus, I don't care.

Most of my Shepard saved characters were the Sole Survivor of the Thresher Maw attack, which Cerberus was behind in ME1! Take that personal experience, with all the other stuff they did in ME1, and the fact that my most trusted friend Captain Anderson says in ME2, I can't trust them, and I'm out. No way my Shepard works or trusts them in any way and I don't believe the council or the Alliance would turn there back so easily on the savior of the Citadel, the first human Spectre.

Not hating on Bioware here, just think you could have taken the darker story approach, without making Shepard ally with a known villain group from ME1. Spectres can do anything, go anywhere, remember?  



EDIT: Really sorry, thought I was in the Spoilers forum. Please move. I apologize.

Good points. You should read the second Mass Effect Novel. Shines a lot of light on Cerberus and explains that little stint where why Cerberus and the Quarians hate each other so much. They touch on the subject but the book is about that!

Thanks. I've been meaning to check out some of the the post ME1 books/comics, since I'm pretty much done with playing ME2. Scanning planets for the 5th playthrough and a lack of bonus talent selections, as compared to ME1, has really hurt the replay-ablility for me. I played ME1 for almost 2 years, unlocking all the bonus talents and squad ally bonus effects. 

[synergys2k]

Policyofnoreturn wrote...

Wake up - Cerberus experimented with Husks - makes them practically equivalent to the reapers. There is no *way* my Shepard would side with them - but in ME2 she's conveniently killed and reconstructed by Cerberus while the council twiddles their thumbs.

So, Cerberus systematically wipes exterminates all organic life from the galaxy every 50,000 years?

"...practically equivalent to the Reapers." Talk about naive... 

[synergys2k]

beserker7 wrote...

TIM will be tried before the Council and/or the Alliance for the death of Admiral Kahoku & other crimes in ME3, Ha. Actually, taking him down after the final mission in ME2 would have been epic!  

Good luck finding him. 

[beserker7]

synergys2k wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

TIM will be tried before the Council and/or the Alliance for the death of Admiral Kahoku & other crimes in ME3, Ha. Actually, taking him down after the final mission in ME2 would have been epic!  

Good luck finding him. 

I got a tip he's cleaning out Axis chemicals. No wait, that's Jack Napier aka The Joker.

Admit it, if there would have been a post Collector take down of TIM(story length mission), this game might have sold twice as many copies, from all the word of mouth and forum e-love posts. E-mail me Bioware, I have...... value.

[Tyfreaky]

Someone explain this to me then:



Asari can read minds and even impart/receive/translate information from vastly alien intellects to others.



So why did not the Asari Council representative touch Shepards mind if they doubted what he saw in the beacons?



Or better yet, why did they not touch Liara's or the Asari Commando from Feros's mind? It seems pretty common among the Asari and they easily could have established the validity of the information and 'seen' the conversation with Soveriegn from at least 3 peoples (probably more) perspectives.



That part never made any sense to me, as someone stated earlier its almost like the Council(specifically) are being willfully ignorant. If TIM could see the Data points how come they can't? Especially the Salariens, they seem to take Sovereign and indoctrination more seriously than the Turians but still at this point its more like they are sticking there heads in the sand than lacking actual proof.



I would love an answer to that..

[Grey_Spectre]

beserker7 wrote...

It seems the ME2 story bringing in Cerberus only makes sense if you were a total Renegade Shepard in ME1.

Not true. You know the Reapers are coming and the 'good guys' have their heads firmly up their backsides. Sure there's Anderson but he's a small cog in an otherwise useless machine.

There's only one organisation with the stones and the resources to deal with this threat. Yeah, they've got ulterior motives but the enemy of my enemy is my friend - and they are by far the lesser of two evils.

And anyway, until someone petitions to have that Turian b****** off the Council, they can go f*** themselves.

As for why Bioware went with Cerberus - to give this game a different tone and feel to the first. Same reason we went to the Terminus systems.

[beserker7]

Tyfreaky wrote...

Someone explain this to me then:

Asari can read minds and even impart/receive/translate information from vastly alien intellects to others.

So why did not the Asari Council representative touch Shepards mind if they doubted what he saw in the beacons?

Or better yet, why did they not touch Liara's or the Asari Commando from Feros's mind? It seems pretty common among the Asari and they easily could have established the validity of the information and 'seen' the conversation with Soveriegn from at least 3 peoples (probably more) perspectives.

That part never made any sense to me, as someone stated earlier its almost like the Council(specifically) are being willfully ignorant. If TIM could see the Data points how come they can't? Especially the Salariens, they seem to take Sovereign and indoctrination more seriously than the Turians but still at this point its more like they are sticking there heads in the sand than lacking actual proof.

I would love an answer to that..

I never considered the Asari "info transfer"angle. Good points and it was used with Liara & Shepard after every mission in ME1. 

[beserker7]

Grey_Spectre wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

It seems the ME2 story bringing in Cerberus only makes sense if you were a total Renegade Shepard in ME1.

Not true. You know the Reapers are coming and the 'good guys' have their heads firmly up their backsides. Sure there's Anderson but he's a small cog in an otherwise useless machine.

There's only one organisation with the stones and the resources to deal with this threat. Yeah, they've got ulterior motives but the enemy of my enemy is my friend - and they are by far the lesser of two evils.

And anyway, until someone petitions to have that Turian b****** off the Council, they can go f*** themselves.

As for why Bioware went with Cerberus - to give this game a different tone and feel to the first. Same reason we went to the Terminus systems.

Loved going to The Terminus Systems, hated taking orders from Cerberus. 

The end game choices helped, but it wasn't enough to overcome the fact my Paragon Shepard wouldn't have stayed past taking the Normandy 2 away from TIM.

Me and Joker would then have given the crew a choice to stay with us or leave. Miranda, Jacob, and whoever else chose Cerberus would be ejected in the escape pods to Tuchanka. Then I would have disabled EDI and went off to round up the new squad and finally meet up with the Spectres & Anderson to stop the Collectors/Reapers.

[NINJ4 R4BBID]

beserker7 wrote...

Then I would have disabled EDI and went off to round up the new squad and finally meet up with the Spectres & Anderson to stop the Collectors/Reapers.

Are you sane (killing EDI is like killing Normandy SR-2, one of the strongest squad members in ME2, EDI pretty much saved the mission)!? 
This hate agains A.I.(s) has to stop (ME2 gave us some good insight about A.I.(s), they are not our enemy, prejudice is)!

P.S. Have you even bothered to speak with EDI before suicide mission (after some nasty events on NSR2)!?

Modifié par NINJ4 R4BBID, 16 février 2010 - 04:35 .

[beserker7]

NINJ4 R4BBID wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

Then I would have disabled EDI and went off to round up the new squad and finally meet up with the Spectres & Anderson to stop the Collectors/Reapers.

Are you sane (killing EDI is like killing Normandy SR-2, one of the strongest squad members in ME2, EDI pretty much saved the mission)!? 
This hate agains A.I.(s) has to stop (ME2 gave us some good insight about A.I.(s), they are not our enemy, prejudice is)!

P.S. Have you even bothered to speak to EDI before suicide mission (after some nasty events on NSR2)!?

But EDI was controlled by Cerberus at the begining. Okay Fine, Joker and I will do the re-boot thing that removes Cerberus control blocks and she can stay.