203 réponses à ce sujet

[NINJ4 R4BBID]

beserker7 wrote...

But EDI was controlled by Cerberus at the begining. Okay Fine, Joker and I will do the re-boot thing that removes Cerberus control blocks and she can stay.    

Just a little correction of facts... she was shackled (restricted, limited not controlled) by Cerberus (i can not get into detail without spoiling anything, but i suggest you talk to her a litle more near the end of the game).

Modifié par NINJ4 R4BBID, 16 février 2010 - 04:58 .

[Fates end]

Eh...I was disappointed that I couldn't force a coup of the Normandy and leave all the Cerberus operatives sitting in an escape pod somewhere. Oh well, maybe next game.

[Tilarta]

Not really.



It's Shepherd and her merry band of aliens and humans that make the team.



Who they work for is irrevalent.

[Sniper11709]

beserker7 wrote...

Tyfreaky wrote...

Someone explain this to me then:

Asari can read minds and even impart/receive/translate information from vastly alien intellects to others.

So why did not the Asari Council representative touch Shepards mind if they doubted what he saw in the beacons?

Or better yet, why did they not touch Liara's or the Asari Commando from Feros's mind? It seems pretty common among the Asari and they easily could have established the validity of the information and 'seen' the conversation with Soveriegn from at least 3 peoples (probably more) perspectives.

That part never made any sense to me, as someone stated earlier its almost like the Council(specifically) are being willfully ignorant. If TIM could see the Data points how come they can't? Especially the Salariens, they seem to take Sovereign and indoctrination more seriously than the Turians but still at this point its more like they are sticking there heads in the sand than lacking actual proof.

I would love an answer to that..

I never considered the Asari "info transfer"angle. Good points and it was used with Liara & Shepard after every mission in ME1. 

I know i said i wasn't going to respond to you anymore but christ this is why i was posting in response to you in the first place, to stop you running into a like minded person and having them reinforcing your bad ideas.

The asari angle would not work at all. The Asari would be able to see that Shepard believes that information, not that it's true so yet again we are back to the, Shepard may believe it but somone may be feeding him false information for him to guard against the wrong thing.

Saren has the beacon first so he could have falsified the information.

Seriously could you people start thinking your posts through before you start firing from the hip.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 16 février 2010 - 10:07 .

[Taiko Roshi]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

I think the change to Cerberus was brilliant. Cmon, how cliche is the Alliance anyway? They're the quintessential wait-til-the-last-minute ignorant cavalry. Cerberus was painted as bad guys in the first game but, like in real life, sometimes looks can be deceiving. Actions speak louder than words, and I know longer dislike Cerberus. Matter of fact, I love Cerberus and I found TiM to be really easy to work with. Here's a blank check, no red tape. Do what you gotta do. Cerberus less law bound than the Spectres.

Umm Cerberus are not "painted" as the bad guys, they are the bad guys. They killed a Naval Officer of the Alliance remember. They conducted experiments on human beings. No, the OP has a point. As a paragon I would of arrested or killed every Cerberus member as a terrorist. I agree with some posts that it was very lazy writing on BW part. You should of had the choice at the very beginning to either side with Cerberus or the Alliance/Council and the game should of progressed from there. As it is you had no choice. Even the option to work for the Alliance/Council in obtaining Intel would of been a better choice then what we got.

There is no real continuity from ME 1 to ME 2, in my opinion. It just seems like two very different story arch have been developed, with the only thing in common being the Reapers. It almost feels like ME 2 is not even a continuation of ME 1 but a different story altogether.

Modifié par Taiko Roshi, 16 février 2010 - 10:33 .

[Keithhy]

Can't say I miss Admiral Hacket all that much, but I do truly miss being a Spectre. The sense of pride and authority, especially during the scene in which you become one, really helped to make the game for me. I truly hope that we can decide between Cerberus and the Alliance in ME3

[Darth_Trethon]

Keithhy wrote...

Can't say I miss Admiral Hacket all that much, but I do truly miss being a Spectre. The sense of pride and authority, especially during the scene in which you become one, really helped to make the game for me. I truly hope that we can decide between Cerberus and the Alliance in ME3

You mean you miss being the Council's tool? I don't. I still only import ME1 saves where I saved them on the sole principle of the first blow. They have to be the ones to strike first before I bring hell to their doorstep and their continued denial of what happened after the fact along with calling me delusional and a traitor is that strike. Now it's war, now I'm going for complete human dominance and not I'm looking to see the council pay for what they've done.

[Sharn01]

They could easily have done the Mass Effect 2 storyline with out Cerberus, or Shepard's death for that matter. Most of the people that love Cerberus have no clue what they have actually done, the stuff from ME1 and hinted in ME2 is just the tip of the iceberg of their evilness.



I am unsure why they went this route with ME2, lets have Shep join up with terrorist's who have destroyed multiple colonies, and make them want to, um, save colonies! /high fives all around.



I was really expected TIM to at some point say "If some one is going to kidnap million's of colonist's and kill them in unethical experiments is going to be Cerberus dammit!"

[Darth_Trethon]

Sharn01 wrote...

They could easily have done the Mass Effect 2 storyline with out Cerberus, or Shepard's death for that matter. Most of the people that love Cerberus have no clue what they have actually done, the stuff from ME1 and hinted in ME2 is just the tip of the iceberg of their evilness.

I am unsure why they went this route with ME2, lets have Shep join up with terrorist's who have destroyed multiple colonies, and make them want to, um, save colonies! /high fives all around.

I was really expected TIM to at some point say "If some one is going to kidnap million's of colonist's and kill them in unethical experiments is going to be Cerberus dammit!"

Oh get over yourself. Without Cerberus the entire gallaxy would be doomed. They are the only ones who did anything about it and Shepard literally owes them everything as he/she would be gray liquid repurposed by the collectors without Cerberus and everyone else is completely oblivious to what's coming. What happened is well and gone....in quite literally another lifetime.

Plus you sound like you're confusing Feros's ExoGeni with Cerberus. Please stop being clueless.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 16 février 2010 - 11:13 .

[Sharn01]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

They could easily have done the Mass Effect 2 storyline with out Cerberus, or Shepard's death for that matter. Most of the people that love Cerberus have no clue what they have actually done, the stuff from ME1 and hinted in ME2 is just the tip of the iceberg of their evilness.

I am unsure why they went this route with ME2, lets have Shep join up with terrorist's who have destroyed multiple colonies, and make them want to, um, save colonies! /high fives all around.

I was really expected TIM to at some point say "If some one is going to kidnap million's of colonist's and kill them in unethical experiments is going to be Cerberus dammit!"

Oh get over yourself. Without Cerberus the entire gallaxy would be doomed. They are the only ones who did anything about it and Shepard literally owes them everything as he/she would be gray liquid repurposed by the collectors without Cerberus and everyone else is completely oblivious to what's coming. What happened is well and gone....in quite literally another lifetime.

Plus you sound like you're confusing Feros's ExoGeni with Cerberus. Please stop being clueless.

You are one of those clueless individual's I see.

Thing's Cerberus has done off the top of my head.

Detonating an element zero freighter over the Yanda Colony,  as well as several other industrial accidents, causing a loss of life of around 1/3 of the population.

Assassination of political figures in order to get their pocket candidates elected, Claude Mennea for example.

Many experiments on unwilling subject's to try and create biotic super soldier's, examples Jack, Gillian Grayson, etc

Implanting human's with Reaper Tech,

Experiments with controlling Rachni as a weapon

Experiment's with Thorian's as a weapon, they did this in collusion with exo-geni

Turning the entire colony of Chasea into Reaper Husk's

The Thresher Maw experiment's on Akuse Colony  (sole survivor history, Toombs), as well as other Thresher Maw experiment's, Kohoku's men, and later assassinating him.

I am sure there are many I am missing and unaware of.

[Darth_Trethon]

Sharn01 wrote...

You are one of those clueless individual's I see.

Thing's Cerberus has done off the top of my head.

Detonating an element zero freighter over the Yanda Colony,  as well as several other industrial accidents, causing a loss of life of around 1/3 of the population.

Assassination of political figures in order to get their pocket candidates elected, Claude Mennea for example.

Many experiments on unwilling subject's to try and create biotic super soldier's, examples Jack, Gillian Grayson, etc

Implanting human's with Reaper Tech,

Experiments with controlling Rachni as a weapon

Experiment's with Thorian's as a weapon, they did this in collusion with exo-geni

Turning the entire colony of Chasea into Reaper Husk's

The Thresher Maw experiment's on Akuse Colony  (sole survivor history, Toombs), as well as other Thresher Maw experiment's, Kohoku's men, and later assassinating him.

I am sure there are many I am missing and unaware of.

Nothing wrong with reaper tech experiments....EDI's hardware contains reaper tech. They have provided results...including the SR2 and Project Lazarus. What colonies they did harm I am sure they did so without harming human intergallactic interests plus what is your source for involving cerberus on what ExoGeni did? I have both books so a link or page number with tile would do as a source but your list sounds like you're just trying to tie Cerberus to more than they actually did. Plus the husk incident hardly qualifies as an "entire collony" since there were only a few dozen people there....unlike the tens of thousands taken by the collectors. You are deffinitely trying to blow things out of proportion.

Political assassinations are fine with me as are rachni experiments. The bugs are extinct now so as long as they don't get another queen and/or means to reproduce/grow I couldn't care less.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 16 février 2010 - 11:43 .

[Sharn01]

Eden prime had million's of colonist's, how many did you actually encounter, both living and dead?

You can not take a head count on something like that from a game.



You get the quest leading to the planet where Cerberus was performing the experiment's on thorian's from the Exo Geni headquarter's. The samples they used where purchased from Exo Geni. Had to look it up but the quest is called UNC: Colony of the Dead

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

I bet Bioware is laughing at this now. They've successfully stirred up forum arguments over the philosophies of moral grey areas and ends justifying means...

btw Darth_Trethon comparing who killed more humans isn't a very good way to place a final judgement on who's "better". If it could be simplified to that extent, one could argue that siding with Hitler in WWII is more "good" because in comparison, Stalin was responsible for a few million more deaths than Hitler's little stunt with the Jews. Plus you wouldn't be able to argue from the point of view that Hitler was 100% bad since, like Cerberus, he did bring about some so-called "positive" results like the construction of the Autobahns.

Also if political assassinations are "fine" by you, I think you need to read this
http://www.cracked.c...f2340ked-world/

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 16 février 2010 - 11:57 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

You are one of those clueless individual's I see.

Thing's Cerberus has done off the top of my head.

Detonating an element zero freighter over the Yanda Colony,  as well as several other industrial accidents, causing a loss of life of around 1/3 of the population.

Assassination of political figures in order to get their pocket candidates elected, Claude Mennea for example.

Many experiments on unwilling subject's to try and create biotic super soldier's, examples Jack, Gillian Grayson, etc

Implanting human's with Reaper Tech,

Experiments with controlling Rachni as a weapon

Experiment's with Thorian's as a weapon, they did this in collusion with exo-geni

Turning the entire colony of Chasea into Reaper Husk's

The Thresher Maw experiment's on Akuse Colony  (sole survivor history, Toombs), as well as other Thresher Maw experiment's, Kohoku's men, and later assassinating him.

I am sure there are many I am missing and unaware of.

Nothing wrong with reaper tech experiments....EDI's hardware contains reaper tech. They have provided results...including the SR2 and Project Lazarus. What colonies they did harm I am sure they did so without harming human intergallactic interests plus what is your source for involving cerberus on what ExoGeni did? I have both books so a link or page number with tile would do as a source but your list sounds like you're just trying to tie Cerberus to more than they actually did. Plus the husk incident hardly qualifies as an "entire collony" since there were only a few dozen people there....unlike the tens of thousands taken by the collectors. You are deffinitely trying to blow things out of proportion.

Political assassinations are fine with me as are rachni experiments. The bugs are extinct now so as long as they don't get another queen and/or means to reproduce/grow I couldn't care less.

"Only a few dozen," is fine unless you're one of those 'few dozen', it doesn't matter whether you agree with Cerberus or not, the fact is that they have gone around murdering people and performing experiments on unwilling subjects, and so if someone has a problem with that then it is valid.

[Sharn01]

I also mispelled the colony for Yanda since I was going by memory, it was Yandoa, a colony of million's, after the element Zero incident, a whole 37 children where born with Biotic's, the other hundred's of thousands died or where born with tumor's and birth defect's. Yandoa was one of many colonies Cerberus did this to, it was just the largest.

[Jimbe2693]

It just doesn't feel right working for Cerberus, I want to tell Illusive man where to shove it and go back to being a spectre. I don't agree with their Human dominance ideals, I like the mass effect universe where humans are still newcomers and not tyrants.

Modifié par Jimbe2693, 16 février 2010 - 11:58 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Sharn01 wrote...

I also mispelled the colony for Yanda since I was going by memory, it was Yandoa, a colony of million's, after the element Zero incident, a whole 37 children where born with Biotic's, the other hundred's of thousands died or where born with tumor's and birth defect's. Yandoa was one of many colonies Cerberus did this to, it was just the largest.

All the other races were far more advanced than us in technology and biotics. We had to catch up of be berried ofr centuries like all the other races that never made the council. A bit of brute force there but fully undertandable. Same with their AI research....not pretty but provided results that ended up advancing the human race on the gallactic stage.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Darth_Trethon wrote...
A bit of brute force there but fully undertandable.

Like people mentioned earlier, it's easy to talk about it in such a casual tone when you're not the one who has to suffer for the sake of the so-called "greater good".

if you're willing to do anything for the sake of power you'd best be prepared to sacrifice everything. IMO only a guy who has absolutely nothing to lose will be ok with such a thing.

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 16 février 2010 - 12:08 .

[nenri]

Sharn01 wrote...

Thing's Cerberus has done off the top of my head.

Detonating an element zero freighter over the Yanda Colony,  as well as several other industrial accidents, causing a loss of life of around 1/3 of the population.

Assassination of political figures in order to get their pocket candidates elected, Claude Mennea for example.

Many experiments on unwilling subject's to try and create biotic super soldier's, examples Jack, Gillian Grayson, etc

Implanting human's with Reaper Tech,

Experiments with controlling Rachni as a weapon

Experiment's with Thorian's as a weapon, they did this in collusion with exo-geni

Turning the entire colony of Chasea into Reaper Husk's

The Thresher Maw experiment's on Akuse Colony  (sole survivor history, Toombs), as well as other Thresher Maw experiment's, Kohoku's men, and later assassinating him.

I am sure there are many I am missing and unaware of.

Add to that list : 

Bringing back Shepard from the dead.

Sent the first expedition through the Omega-4 relay, and coming back. This is moon-landing category, especially since none of the council races managed to do it even though they had the benefit of having far more experience as galactic civilizations. 

Pushing back the collector threat, saving entire human colonies when the alliance did nothing but send Williams/Alenko to set up GUARDIAN turrets on one planet. Oh and someone had to swich them on right, too.

acknowledging the Reaper threat and doing something about it, destroying the embryonic human reaper.

admittedly all of this is Shepard's, on Cerberus ship with a Cerberus crew and with Cerberus resources and intel. But still  

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Cerberus simply resurrected Shep and let him handle the dirty work.

"Oh look more dossiers! Now go get im!"

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 16 février 2010 - 12:20 .

[Sharn01]

nenri wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Thing's Cerberus has done off the top of my head.

Detonating an element zero freighter over the Yanda Colony,  as well as several other industrial accidents, causing a loss of life of around 1/3 of the population.

Assassination of political figures in order to get their pocket candidates elected, Claude Mennea for example.

Many experiments on unwilling subject's to try and create biotic super soldier's, examples Jack, Gillian Grayson, etc

Implanting human's with Reaper Tech,

Experiments with controlling Rachni as a weapon

Experiment's with Thorian's as a weapon, they did this in collusion with exo-geni

Turning the entire colony of Chasea into Reaper Husk's

The Thresher Maw experiment's on Akuse Colony  (sole survivor history, Toombs), as well as other Thresher Maw experiment's, Kohoku's men, and later assassinating him.

I am sure there are many I am missing and unaware of.

Add to that list : 

Bringing back Shepard from the dead.

Sent the first expedition through the Omega-4 relay, and coming back. This is moon-landing category, especially since none of the council races managed to do it even though they had the benefit of having far more experience as galactic civilizations. 

Pushing back the collector threat, saving entire human colonies when the alliance did nothing but send Williams/Alenko to set up GUARDIAN turrets on one planet. Oh and someone had to swich them on right, too.

acknowledging the Reaper threat and doing something about it, destroying the embryonic human reaper.

admittedly all of this is Shepard's, on Cerberus ship with a Cerberus crew and with Cerberus resources and intel. But still  

I do not believe TIM did any of that for the benefit of man.  I feel it was all meant for him to obtain new tech from the very beginning, and the game gives little reason to think otherswise.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Saying "it's for the benefit of humanity" is just the nice way of saying "dominance over other races". You can sort of see how TIM tries to get the moral high ground by continually insisting on thta notion, with statements like "strength for Cerberus is strength for humanity"

[nenri]

This is what is great with TIM, he embodies everything that is virtuous and vicious in humanity. Notice the pattern in his eyes is the same as renegade shepard, but blue, the color of paragons. His intentions may be shady or outright evil, but the actions speak for themselves, somewhat in ME2 reversing the axiom of ends justifying the means. Shepard got it right when he said Cerberus better do things his way from now on, extinction is too much a serious matter to be left to politicians.

I like cerberus, for the only reason that you are pretty much taking over it in mass effect 2

Modifié par nenri, 16 février 2010 - 12:30 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Sharn01 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

They could easily have done the Mass Effect 2 storyline with out Cerberus, or Shepard's death for that matter. Most of the people that love Cerberus have no clue what they have actually done, the stuff from ME1 and hinted in ME2 is just the tip of the iceberg of their evilness.

I am unsure why they went this route with ME2, lets have Shep join up with terrorist's who have destroyed multiple colonies, and make them want to, um, save colonies! /high fives all around.

I was really expected TIM to at some point say "If some one is going to kidnap million's of colonist's and kill them in unethical experiments is going to be Cerberus dammit!"

Oh get over yourself. Without Cerberus the entire gallaxy would be doomed. They are the only ones who did anything about it and Shepard literally owes them everything as he/she would be gray liquid repurposed by the collectors without Cerberus and everyone else is completely oblivious to what's coming. What happened is well and gone....in quite literally another lifetime.

Plus you sound like you're confusing Feros's ExoGeni with Cerberus. Please stop being clueless.

You are one of those clueless individual's I see.

Thing's Cerberus has done off the top of my head.

Detonating an element zero freighter over the Yanda Colony,  as well as several other industrial accidents, causing a loss of life of around 1/3 of the population.

Assassination of political figures in order to get their pocket candidates elected, Claude Mennea for example.

Many experiments on unwilling subject's to try and create biotic super soldier's, examples Jack, Gillian Grayson, etc

Implanting human's with Reaper Tech,

Experiments with controlling Rachni as a weapon

Experiment's with Thorian's as a weapon, they did this in collusion with exo-geni

Turning the entire colony of Chasea into Reaper Husk's

The Thresher Maw experiment's on Akuse Colony  (sole survivor history, Toombs), as well as other Thresher Maw experiment's, Kohoku's men, and later assassinating him.

I am sure there are many I am missing and unaware of.

Lets compare this to the Councils brilliant track record.

- Sends a expedition though a unknown Mass Relay and plunges the universe into a war that last 300 years - casualties presumed to be in the billions.

- Has no qualms about uplifting a entire race to use a shock troops - Krogan - to fight a war of annihilation for them - casualties presumed in the billions, probably even trillions Rachni.

- Then turns around and uses a bio weapon on their former shock troops when they rebel - casualties are impossible to guess but presumed to extremely high.

- Plays favorites with the newly discovered humans and allows them to settle the Skyllian Verge. Resulting in the withdrawal of the Batarians from the council setting them up as a rogue state who has no qualms about running a terrorist war against the other races - primarily humans.

- Is completely indifferent when one of their top agents blow up a refinery killing at least 500 civilians.

Im not saying Cerberus is good, I'm saying that the Council is just as bad and has a much much higher casualty rate.

[beserker7]

Sniper11709 wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

Tyfreaky wrote...

Someone explain this to me then:

Asari can read minds and even impart/receive/translate information from vastly alien intellects to others.

So why did not the Asari Council representative touch Shepards mind if they doubted what he saw in the beacons?

Or better yet, why did they not touch Liara's or the Asari Commando from Feros's mind? It seems pretty common among the Asari and they easily could have established the validity of the information and 'seen' the conversation with Soveriegn from at least 3 peoples (probably more) perspectives.

That part never made any sense to me, as someone stated earlier its almost like the Council(specifically) are being willfully ignorant. If TIM could see the Data points how come they can't? Especially the Salariens, they seem to take Sovereign and indoctrination more seriously than the Turians but still at this point its more like they are sticking there heads in the sand than lacking actual proof.

I would love an answer to that..

I never considered the Asari "info transfer"angle. Good points and it was used with Liara & Shepard after every mission in ME1. 

I know i said i wasn't going to respond to you anymore but christ this is why i was posting in response to you in the first place, to stop you running into a like minded person and having them reinforcing your bad ideas.

The asari angle would not work at all. The Asari would be able to see that Shepard believes that information, not that it's true so yet again we are back to the, Shepard may believe it but somone may be feeding him false information for him to guard against the wrong thing.

Saren has the beacon first so he could have falsified the information.

Seriously could you people start thinking your posts through before you start firing from the hip.

You said you were going away 3 posts ago, and you keep trolling. Any intelligent person can see that. Go away troll!, as you have nothing intelligent, to add to the conversation. 

Bioware sure satisfied this type of player with the story of ME2, now what about the majority of us who aren't 100% Renegade troll monsters who love being the tools of Cerberus.