203 réponses à ce sujet

[Sniper11709]

beserker7 wrote...

You said you were going away 3 posts ago, and you keep trolling. Any intelligent person can see that. Go away troll!, as you have nothing intelligent, to add to the conversation. 

Bioware sure satisfied this type of player with the story of ME2, now what about the majority of us who aren't 100% Renegade troll monsters who love being the tools of Cerberus.

I said i was going to stop responding to you not that i was leaving the thread and then some one else started firing from the hip with theorys that make no sense at all. If you don't want someone tearing up your theorys then don't post in a public forum.

Also funny how you say i haven't brought anything intelligent when you keep spouting off **** that is very clearly told to you is a no go in the first game.

You back pedal when your told that your wrong and that the Alliance is just as bad as Cerberus.
You then try to say Cerberus conducted the BAaTs program.
You say the Spectres have oversight when the first part of ME1 is pretty much about how they have no oversight, and your response to me disagreeing is "nuff said".
You then pull this rights idiocy.
You then agree with this Asari thing and then call me a troll because you can't argue back.

And this is my personal favorite

"Still, I don't really see the need for Cerberus and wish we were with
the Spectres.  I think you could have sent Shepard in 1 ship, into the
Terminus, without it causing a  war. Cerberus is not exactly covert or
unknown in the Terminus and is probably viewed as bad as the Council
is, in Terminus Space."

The Alliance locked our ship down in the final part of ME1 because the council dosen't want you to head into the terminus system when Citadel security is threatened, why on earth would they let you do it for a purely human matter.

Edit - Seeing as you think i'm a troll here's a deal. Get 7 people who previously posted in this thread to call me a troll and tell me to leave and i'll leave this thread alone, and no you don't count.

Edit 2 - Goddammit i'm an idiot, i let myself get trolled<_<

Modifié par Sniper11709, 16 février 2010 - 02:26 .

[obie191970]

beserker7 wrote...

Bioware sure satisfied this type of player with the story of ME2, now what about the majority of us who aren't 100% Renegade troll monsters who love being the tools of Cerberus.

I mentioned this a couple of pages ago in this thread and Anacronian reiterates it above, but what is so good and holy about the Council or the Alliance that makes you look upon them with rose colored glasses?  Outside of Captain Anderson, both of them treat you like crap and use you in the same way as Cerberus does.  You are merely using both of them as a tool to meet Shepard's goals.  I don't think anybody here is saying the Cerberus is all lollipops and rainbows, but the Council and Alliance aren't either.

[Poison_Berrie]

Sniper11709 wrote...
I know i said i wasn't going to respond to you anymore but christ this is why i was posting in response to you in the first place, to stop you running into a like minded person and having them reinforcing your bad ideas.

The asari angle would not work at all. The Asari would be able to see that Shepard believes that information, not that it's true so yet again we are back to the, Shepard may believe it but somone may be feeding him false information for him to guard against the wrong thing.

Saren has the beacon first so he could have falsified the information.

Seriously could you people start thinking your posts through before you start firing from the hip.

Where is it actually stated to work like that. 
Surely the images of said meld would at least bring the existence of the Reapers into more of a maybe field. 
I concede that it's not hard evidence, which the council wants.

Regardless it doesn't not change the fact that the reason we are with Cerberus is not because they are the only organization that can help you and the story could not go anyway else, but rather that it's set-up this way for plot purposes. Probably for events in the third part.

[Sniper11709]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...
I know i said i wasn't going to respond to you anymore but christ this is why i was posting in response to you in the first place, to stop you running into a like minded person and having them reinforcing your bad ideas.

The asari angle would not work at all. The Asari would be able to see that Shepard believes that information, not that it's true so yet again we are back to the, Shepard may believe it but somone may be feeding him false information for him to guard against the wrong thing.

Saren has the beacon first so he could have falsified the information.

Seriously could you people start thinking your posts through before you start firing from the hip.

Where is it actually stated to work like that. 
Surely the images of said meld would at least bring the existence of the Reapers into more of a maybe field. 
I concede that it's not hard evidence, which the council wants.

Regardless it doesn't not change the fact that the reason we are with Cerberus is not because they are the only organization that can help you and the story could not go anyway else, but rather that it's set-up this way for plot purposes. Probably for events in the third part.

It's never stated anywhere how the meld works but i highly doubt that somehow Asari can somehow verify the truth of events using it, verify a persons view of the event, yes. As i said it would verify that Shepard believed it and may possibly convince the asari looking at it but as you said it's not hard evidence. Little hard to convince the galaxy into an arms race over a race of alien machines that may not even exist .

Never said that the Cerberus story wasn't set up, i just consider Cerberus just as bad as the Alliance and that the story set up is just like us being forced into the Spectres. In ME1 only Spectres can go after Spectres and in ME2 only Cerberus can take down the Collecters.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 16 février 2010 - 02:39 .

[obie191970]

Sniper11709 wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...
I know i said i wasn't going to respond to you anymore but christ this is why i was posting in response to you in the first place, to stop you running into a like minded person and having them reinforcing your bad ideas.

The asari angle would not work at all. The Asari would be able to see that Shepard believes that information, not that it's true so yet again we are back to the, Shepard may believe it but somone may be feeding him false information for him to guard against the wrong thing.

Saren has the beacon first so he could have falsified the information.

Seriously could you people start thinking your posts through before you start firing from the hip.

Where is it actually stated to work like that. 
Surely the images of said meld would at least bring the existence of the Reapers into more of a maybe field. 
I concede that it's not hard evidence, which the council wants.

Regardless it doesn't not change the fact that the reason we are with Cerberus is not because they are the only organization that can help you and the story could not go anyway else, but rather that it's set-up this way for plot purposes. Probably for events in the third part.

It's never stated anywhere how the meld works but i highly doubt that somehow Asari can somehow verify the truth of events using it, verify a persons view of the event, yes. As i said it would verify that Shepard believed it and may possibly convince the asari looking at it but as you said it's not hard evidence. Little hard to convince the galaxy into an arms race over a race of alien machines that may not even exist .

Never said that the Cerberus story wasn't set up, i just consider Cerberus just as bad as the Alliance and that the story set up is just like us being forced into the Spectres. In ME1 only Spectres can go after Spectres and in ME2 only Cerberus can take down the Collecters.

On top of this, if you follow the times that the "mind meld" happens in ME1, Shepard has to prepare and allow it to happen.  It's not like they just look at him and boom, they know everything.

[Poison_Berrie]

Sniper11709 wrote...
It's never stated anywhere how the meld works but i highly doubt that somehow Asari can somehow verify the truth of events using it, verify a persons view of the event, yes. As i said it would verify that Shepard believed it and may possibly convince the asari looking at it but as you said it's not hard evidence. Little hard to convince the galaxy into an arms race over a race of alien machines that may not even exist .

I don't know, the way the beacon worked and the images from it always never seemed personal viewpoint-like. It probably is equal to Grunts tank imprints. Without context there is little too make of it (hence the need of the chiper)

Never said that the Cerberus story wasn't set up, i just consider Cerberus just as bad as the Alliance and that the story set up is just like us being forced into the Spectres. In ME1 only Spectres can go after Spectres and in ME2 only Cerberus can take down the Collecters.

True, though I had a harder time to accept Shepard joining Cerberus than him/her joining the Spectres. It felt a lot more forced this time and how the entire Alliance and Council stuff is handled further drives the forced role reversal home.

[Sniper11709]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...
It's never stated anywhere how the meld works but i highly doubt that somehow Asari can somehow verify the truth of events using it, verify a persons view of the event, yes. As i said it would verify that Shepard believed it and may possibly convince the asari looking at it but as you said it's not hard evidence. Little hard to convince the galaxy into an arms race over a race of alien machines that may not even exist .

I don't know, the way the beacon worked and the images from it always never seemed personal viewpoint-like. It probably is equal to Grunts tank imprints. Without context there is little too make of it (hence the need of the chiper)

Never said that the Cerberus story wasn't set up, i just consider Cerberus just as bad as the Alliance and that the story set up is just like us being forced into the Spectres. In ME1 only Spectres can go after Spectres and in ME2 only Cerberus can take down the Collecters.

True, though I had a harder time to accept Shepard joining Cerberus than him/her joining the Spectres. It felt a lot more forced this time and how the entire Alliance and Council stuff is handled further drives the forced role reversal home.

The Council thinks the beacon vision is one of 2 things, 1) Shepard going crazy 2) False information, to me it just seems like the ME1 events basically tell that the council is going to find a way write off the reapers no matter what evidence is presented.

Actully i should have mentioned this before but there is actully hard evidence of the reapers lying around, well at least evidence that Sovereign is at least as old as the keepers and made by the same people. If you help with the scanning of the keepers in the first game you get message talking about Chorbon (sp) having findings that prove the link. Now if any one had suggested using that type of evidence to convince the council i wouldn't have been so hostile to the idea.

You joining Cerberus is a lot more forced then the Spectres induction. They most likely killed Shepard just to give a reason for him giving them a chance.

[Leonick91]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...
It's never stated anywhere how the meld works but i highly doubt that somehow Asari can somehow verify the truth of events using it, verify a persons view of the event, yes. As i said it would verify that Shepard believed it and may possibly convince the asari looking at it but as you said it's not hard evidence. Little hard to convince the galaxy into an arms race over a race of alien machines that may not even exist .

I don't know, the way the beacon worked and the images from it always never seemed personal viewpoint-like. It probably is equal to Grunts tank imprints. Without context there is little too make of it (hence the need of the chiper)

But there is still nothing in shepards memories that proves that saren ahdnt just the beacon there as a bait to lead him of track, we know it's not like that yes but teh council have no way of knowing

[Poison_Berrie]

Sniper11709 wrote...
Actully i should have mentioned this before but there is actully hard evidence of the reapers lying around, well at least evidence that Sovereign is at least as old as the keepers and made by the same people. If you help with the scanning of the keepers in the first game you get message talking about Chorbon (sp) having findings that prove the link. Now if any one had suggested using that type of evidence to convince the council i wouldn't have been so hostile to the idea.

You joining Cerberus is a lot more forced then the Spectres induction. They most likely killed Shepard just to give a reason for him giving them a chance.

With all the things they set up I'm really getting excited for Mass Effect 3 . If they're following through with what they said and close Shepard's stories in the third there's just so much lying around.

[obie191970]

Leonick91 wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...
It's never stated anywhere how the meld works but i highly doubt that somehow Asari can somehow verify the truth of events using it, verify a persons view of the event, yes. As i said it would verify that Shepard believed it and may possibly convince the asari looking at it but as you said it's not hard evidence. Little hard to convince the galaxy into an arms race over a race of alien machines that may not even exist .

I don't know, the way the beacon worked and the images from it always never seemed personal viewpoint-like. It probably is equal to Grunts tank imprints. Without context there is little too make of it (hence the need of the chiper)

But there is still nothing in shepards memories that proves that saren ahdnt just the beacon there as a bait to lead him of track, we know it's not like that yes but teh council have no way of knowing

The council specifically mentions this point saying that Saren could have gotten access to Shepard's reports to the Council and was therefore playing to his "fantasies."

[Ulicus]

Sniper11709 wrote...

The Council thinks the beacon vision is one of 2 things, 1) Shepard going crazy 2) False information, to me it just seems like the ME1 events basically tell that the council is going to find a way write off the reapers no matter what evidence is presented.

Unfortunately, it's proven that the vision isn't false information when Shepard uses it to locate Saren on Ilos and save the galaxy. The Mu Relay linked to an immense number of systems, which is why Shepard couldn't just go to Noveria and then Ilos. Without the vision, Shepard and Co. would have never found Saren without being extraordinarily lucky.

Since the Reapers are in Shepard's vision, the only way the Council can deny the existence of the Reapers is by:

A) Arbitrarily deciding that certain bits are false and certain bits are true
Accuse Shepard of lying about the way in which he found Saren on Ilos.

In any case, the vision, its inclusion of the Reapers and its faciliation of Shepard's success in ME1 should have been mentioned during the discussion with the Council. Even if it was dismissed in a poor manner, it would have been better than the lump of nothing we got... because now Shepard looks stupid for never bringing it up.

I mean, honestly, the vision is the only thing that makes the Council's dismissal of the Reapers a problem at the minute. However they want to slice it, they can't deny that the vision led Shepard to Saren on Ilos. There wasn't anything else that pointed Shepard there. It's not hard for me to suspend my disbelief and think that Sovereign was crafted out of a "magic", undatable alloy... but the vision going unmentioned? Yeah, that's a problem.

Better for them to have dismissed the possibility of the Reapers being an imminent threat now the Citadel Relay wasn't in danger of being opened. I mean, to be fair, Shepard had no evidence to back up his claim at the end of ME1 that "they're coming". Sure, he had every right to investigate if they had other ways of getting into the galaxy... but he was leaping to conclusions, even though they were inevitably proven right.

Modifié par Ulicus, 16 février 2010 - 05:42 .

[Leonick91]

Just gonna throw in a fact from some talks in game.

The experiments on Jack did break Cerberus rules, "It was a mistake, and one that was corrected once we discovered the extent of the experiments being performed" This proves the main Cerberus regulations was against that and the cell which did those experiments was rogue.



Also, a nice question i found during some dialogue.

First this " We weren't breeding an army. We were breeding expendable shock troopers for high risk scenarios" This was about the rachni, please do also note these experiments were aborted when they understood their intelligence was more than just simple animals, yea you'll just say because they were dangerous but it probably was because it was wrong too...



Now i ask you this, "How many soldiers died in Saren's attack on Eden Prime? How many would have lived if we'd had just a dozen rachni soldiers on our side?"



Yes cerberus has done bad things, but that is true about the council, the alliance, the salarian special taskgroup, the uncontrolled spectres and a lot of other military organizations and or agencies i am sure but just as them cerberus has done plenty of good stuff to, for example saving the whole galaxy in ME2 when no one else would care to... seriously look at the fact and think for a second

[Sniper11709]

Ulicus wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

The Council thinks the beacon vision is one of 2 things, 1) Shepard going crazy 2) False information, to me it just seems like the ME1 events basically tell that the council is going to find a way write off the reapers no matter what evidence is presented.

Unfortunately, it's proven that the vision isn't false information when Shepard uses it to locate Saren on Ilos and save the galaxy. The Mu Relay linked to an immense number of systems, which is why Shepard couldn't just go to Noveria and then Ilos. Without the vision, Shepard and Co. would have never found Saren without being extraordinarily lucky.

Since the Reapers are in Shepard's vision, the only way the Council can deny the existence of the Reapers is by:

A) Arbitrarily deciding that certain bits are false and certain bits are true
Accuse Shepard of lying about the way in which he found Saren on Ilos.

In any case, the vision, its inclusion of the Reapers and its faciliation of Shepard's success in ME1 should have been mentioned during the discussion with the Council. Even if it was dismissed in a poor manner, it would have been better than the lump of nothing we got... because now Shepard looks stupid for never bringing it up.

I mean, honestly, the vision is the only thing that makes the Council's dismissal of the Reapers a problem at the minute. However they want to slice it, they can't deny that the vision led Shepard to Saren on Ilos. There wasn't anything else that pointed Shepard there. It's not hard for me to suspend my disbelief and think that Sovereign was crafted out of a "magic", undatable alloy... but the vision going unmentioned? Yeah, that's a problem.

Better for them to have dismissed the possibility of the Reapers being an imminent threat now the Citadel Relay wasn't in danger of being opened. I mean, to be fair, Shepard had no evidence to back up his claim at the end of ME1 that "they're coming". Sure, he had every right to investigate if they had other ways of getting into the galaxy... but he was leaping to conclusions, even though they were inevitably proven right.

Why is option A) not possible? The Protheans could have been wrong about the Reapers, It could have been propaganda from them losing the war against another race that wipes themselves out later, it could have their own AIs.

There's all sorts of unknown data involved and the only reason it makes sense to Shepard is because he never questioned anything he was told and so was able to see the entire puzzle, the council on the other hand is seeing all those bits and pieces and is rejecting them individually and is thus not able to see the puzzle. You have to remember that the evidence of a cycle of destruction comes from Liara and the academic community is laughing at her for the theory.

About your "magic" material I don't believe ships in space that go from star system to star system and most especially ones that can be constructed and repaired from materials from different worlds can be dated, too many variables.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 16 février 2010 - 06:50 .

[JamesMoriarty123]

synergys2k wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

The first part of your statement is a good point, however; 

If you read the first 1-2 pages of this topic, you'll see I don't think its the fact that they used Cerberus, as much as, they failed to put in the extra dialog and scenes with Anderson & The Council for the Paragon side; to make it feel right to work with them.
 
Still, I don't really see the need for Cerberus and wish we were with the Spectres.  I think you could have sent Shepard in 1 ship, into the Terminus, without it causing a  war. Cerberus is not exactly covert or unknown in the Terminus and is probably viewed as bad as the Council is, in Terminus Space.

A thought to be dead Spectre would be cause for concern(like Aria says in Omega), but wouldn't rally the whole system to war with the Council.

The Council doesn't give Spectres ships. The Spectre needs to find his own passage, at least that's my understanding.

The Council believes the Reapers do not exist.

The Council can't or won't investigate the disappearing human colonies because, "...it's strictly a human problem." 

So, why would the Council be sending Shepard into the Terminus Systems? 

Also, just being a spectre wouldn't give you the resources nedded to build up a crack team or replace the Normandy. In all fairness who else could have rebuilt Shepherd? No other group with the resources exists.

[beserker7]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

synergys2k wrote...

beserker7 wrote...

The first part of your statement is a good point, however; 

If you read the first 1-2 pages of this topic, you'll see I don't think its the fact that they used Cerberus, as much as, they failed to put in the extra dialog and scenes with Anderson & The Council for the Paragon side; to make it feel right to work with them.
 
Still, I don't really see the need for Cerberus and wish we were with the Spectres.  I think you could have sent Shepard in 1 ship, into the Terminus, without it causing a  war. Cerberus is not exactly covert or unknown in the Terminus and is probably viewed as bad as the Council is, in Terminus Space.

A thought to be dead Spectre would be cause for concern(like Aria says in Omega), but wouldn't rally the whole system to war with the Council.

The Council doesn't give Spectres ships. The Spectre needs to find his own passage, at least that's my understanding.

The Council believes the Reapers do not exist.

The Council can't or won't investigate the disappearing human colonies because, "...it's strictly a human problem." 

So, why would the Council be sending Shepard into the Terminus Systems? 

Also, just being a spectre wouldn't give you the resources nedded to build up a crack team or replace the Normandy. In all fairness who else could have rebuilt Shepherd? No other group with the resources exists.

Moriarity, those are just excuses, come on. The Council and/or Alliance both have the funds. Since when did  Cerberus become bigger than those 2 groups. It's not logical to think Cerbeus has more resources than the whole System's Alliance or Galactic Council. Shepards team could have been partially made up of Spectres and the Alliance/Turians built the first Normandy, so the man could get a ship, okay. He saved the frickin Citadel from Saren and the Geth Fleet(leave out Soverign), saved the Galactic Council & its flagship, and is the first human Spectre.

At the end of the day, it's Bioware who took the story/game to where they wanted to go.

By the way, I'm playing ME1 over again and there are no "rose colored glasses being worn", playing that game. It's still an Amazing all around game! If any rose colored glasses are being used to look at a game right now its ME2. ME1 had all the little things and some of the big things, that were removed or over simplified for ME2, of which, all have been mentioned several times by other users, on these forums.  


 

[Zaxares]

Leonick91 wrote...

Yes cerberus has done bad things, but that is true about the council, the alliance, the salarian special taskgroup, the uncontrolled spectres and a lot of other military organizations and or agencies i am sure but just as them cerberus has done plenty of good stuff to, for example saving the whole galaxy in ME2 when no one else would care to... seriously look at the fact and think for a second

That still doesn't excuse Cerberus luring innocent people into Thresher Maw nests or transforming an entire colony into Husks. They may be the lesser of two evils, which is why my Shepard works with them, but I'm itching to say to TIM "We're allies for now, but don't you think for a moment that I've forgotten about Akuze, about the crimes that you've committed against humanity. When this is all over, I'm coming back for you."

[Embrosil]

During my first playthrough I was expecting that there will be some point where I can send ILM and the whole Cerberus to hell for all they done. And nothing. I was really fed up. It seems that the murder of admiral Kahoku, inhuman experiments on Akuze and other atrocities are suddenly all right. Even torturing little children is all right now. And all we get is, that it was a rouge cell? Does someone really belives that? I switched to ME2 right after finishing ME1 and I wanted to vomit. Sorry Bioware, but whoever wrote the screenplay should be fired immediately. And the best part is that hunderts of thousands people go missing and Alliance does nothing?! If it was thousand people, no problem. But tens or hundrests of thousands? You really must be joking. They lost 8, I mean EIGHT cruisers, 2400 people. Yet we are told that they are still rebuilding. What the hell are they rebuilding? And no, Cerberus did not save the galaxy instead of Alliance/Council. The screenwriter made Cerberus to look like a savior of the Galaxy. I hate to say, but I will not buy ME3 till I read more about the story. I will rather not play the game than to play a game with bad/stupid story.

[The Happy One]

Sniper11709 wrote...

Taritu wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Taritu wrote...

The way they handled the Council was probably the stupidest thing in the game. There would be logs from the Normandy and armor suits of the talks with Vigil, Sovereign and Saren, carbon dating of Sovereign and so on. Either the Council or morons or they're lying. Neither makes sense. Bad damned writing. It would have been simple enough for the council to say "Please have your squad members leave for this conversation." Once they left "ok, you're a Spectre again. We can't do much in the Terminus systems, and you've got a new Normandy which is great. You're inside Cerberus now, keep working with them and get as much information as you can. We don't expect you to report in from the Normandy, since it's bugged, but pop by here and keep Anderson informed.  Hopefully you can both stop this problem and deal a blow to Cerberus."

And at the end, if you tell Tim to shove it, you report to the Council, and you're back in.

A real choice, and a council that isn't brain dead.

The Council has to operate with hard evidence.  As OBVIOUS as it is to us, and our Shepard, they are just outside observers, seeing a wave of geth ships, and one really big sentient ship.  Vigil broke down, there was no other evidence besides Shepards vision.

I can understand why they don't completely subscribe to the Reaper theory, after all, it is REALLY farfetched.  In their position, I probably would have done the same thing, but would have given Shepard the benefit of the doubt due to his accomplishments.

They are alien, and are still apprehensive about humans it would seem.  We just joined the Council after all..

In the end, sometimes it takes an anti-hero like The Illusive Man and his Cerberus to step up to the plate.  I think it's brilliant story telling.

it's not hard to get hard evidence.  If Sovereign is that old, there are scientific tests to date how old it is.  They would show Sovereign existed long before any Geth even existed.  Suits would keep logs of what happened - so Shepard's suit, plus those of whoever was on Ilos with him would have logs of the conversation with Sigil and conversations with Saren and Sovereign.

This is hard evidence, and even if the council thinks that Shepard might tend to be delusional if's a far step beyond that to assume that he's tampering with logs, and that his squad members are lying too.

No, sorry, the council is not acting logically.  It's the worst plot hole in the second game (though not the only one) and as observed, it would make a lot more sense for Paragon Shepards to do it another way.  My main is a paragon, and I spent the entire game thinking "job 1 after this is done is to arrest Tim, and Miranda too, if she hasn't switched sides.  And gee, the renegade in me hopes they resist arrest...."  

Sorry i know that you haven't time to read my post so i'm repeating myself but i have to say it.

THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC TESTS THAT COULD BE DONE WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT MORE DATA.

You would need to know where it was built,where the materials came from and what it's been exposed to since at the very least.

Whoa there buddy. Take your meds.

[beserker7]

Embrosil wrote...

During my first playthrough I was expecting that there will be some point where I can send ILM and the whole Cerberus to hell for all they done. And nothing. I was really fed up. It seems that the murder of admiral Kahoku, inhuman experiments on Akuze and other atrocities are suddenly all right. Even torturing little children is all right now. And all we get is, that it was a rouge cell? Does someone really belives that? I switched to ME2 right after finishing ME1 and I wanted to vomit. Sorry Bioware, but whoever wrote the screenplay should be fired immediately. And the best part is that hunderts of thousands people go missing and Alliance does nothing?! If it was thousand people, no problem. But tens or hundrests of thousands? You really must be joking. They lost 8, I mean EIGHT cruisers, 2400 people. Yet we are told that they are still rebuilding. What the hell are they rebuilding? And no, Cerberus did not save the galaxy instead of Alliance/Council. The screenwriter made Cerberus to look like a savior of the Galaxy. I hate to say, but I will not buy ME3 till I read more about the story. I will rather not play the game than to play a game with bad/stupid story.

I agree. Seems funny that every faction of Cerberus seems to be a rogue cell, wait!, its because the entire criminal organization is rogue. Writing out the Alliance in a un-realistic lame way and not even mentioning the Threshew Maw & Kahoku was weak too. No, Cerberus is portrayed as the only ones who care about the colonists, what a joke.

FTW:  It would have so sweet to have destroying Cerberus and Illusive Man as the final mission, after the one we got. If you were Paragon Shepard you could have brought all the past history up, right before taking him out and to be judged at trial in front of the Alliance & Council. If you were Renegade Shepard you could off him and take over and run the show your way.

Modifié par beserker7, 17 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[Nautica773]

I felt that the game gave decent enough explanations for working with Cerberus. If Shepard was pure Paragon it makes less sense for Cerberus to revive Shepard, but you have to take some hits in the logic department in order to get a game out.



While working with Cerberus, you can really be a nuisance to the Illusive Man if you don't want to co-operate. Even the ending gives you the chance to stick it to him. I don't see why Shepard wouldn't be willing to work with Cerberus. Shepard has a tendency to do whatever it takes to get the job done, whether that means disobeying a direct command from the Citadel and stealing an Alliance top of the line ship or working with a rogue organization like Cerberus.



And it doesn't make sense that the Council refuses to believe in the Reapers. It's probably one of the biggest blunders and just shows how incompetent they are (even if you helped form them). There's a lot of ignoring reality to dismiss the Reapers (from completely ignoring Ilos as well as the discrepancies between Sovereign and the Geth and the bizarre cybernetics on Saren).

[obie191970]

Embrosil wrote...

During my first playthrough I was expecting that there will be some point where I can send ILM and the whole Cerberus to hell for all they done. And nothing. I was really fed up. It seems that the murder of admiral Kahoku, inhuman experiments on Akuze and other atrocities are suddenly all right. Even torturing little children is all right now. And all we get is, that it was a rouge cell? Does someone really belives that? I switched to ME2 right after finishing ME1 and I wanted to vomit. Sorry Bioware, but whoever wrote the screenplay should be fired immediately. And the best part is that hunderts of thousands people go missing and Alliance does nothing?! If it was thousand people, no problem. But tens or hundrests of thousands? You really must be joking. They lost 8, I mean EIGHT cruisers, 2400 people. Yet we are told that they are still rebuilding. What the hell are they rebuilding? And no, Cerberus did not save the galaxy instead of Alliance/Council. The screenwriter made Cerberus to look like a savior of the Galaxy. I hate to say, but I will not buy ME3 till I read more about the story. I will rather not play the game than to play a game with bad/stupid story.

The reason that the Council/Alliance is not getting involved is two-pronged.  First, they are rebuilding after the attack on the Citadel where they took a beating.  Secondly, the colonies getting invaded are in the Terminus Systems, where it is clearly explained in ME1 that a Council/Alliance show of force there would incite a full blown war.  Furthermore, it is explained that the humans who colonize these worlds do so at their own risk.  The Terminus Systems "are populated by a loose affiliation of minor species, united only in their refusal to acknowledge the political authority of the Council or adhere to the Citadel Conventions."

Now, you may not like the story - That is your right not to.  But to say that the story does not fit into what has been written in both ME1 and the two books is completely wrong.

Modifié par obie191970, 17 février 2010 - 04:28 .

[beserker7]

Nautica773 wrote...

I felt that the game gave decent enough explanations for working with Cerberus. If Shepard was pure Paragon it makes less sense for Cerberus to revive Shepard, but you have to take some hits in the logic department in order to get a game out.

While working with Cerberus, you can really be a nuisance to the Illusive Man if you don't want to co-operate. Even the ending gives you the chance to stick it to him. I don't see why Shepard wouldn't be willing to work with Cerberus. Shepard has a tendency to do whatever it takes to get the job done, whether that means disobeying a direct command from the Citadel and stealing an Alliance top of the line ship or working with a rogue organization like Cerberus.

And it doesn't make sense that the Council refuses to believe in the Reapers. It's probably one of the biggest blunders and just shows how incompetent they are (even if you helped form them). There's a lot of ignoring reality to dismiss the Reapers (from completely ignoring Ilos as well as the discrepancies between Sovereign and the Geth and the bizarre cybernetics on Saren).

You made my point  in your second sentence, thank you, and I agree with your last paragraph.

Modifié par beserker7, 17 février 2010 - 05:04 .

[Sniper11709]

Nautica773 wrote...

I felt that the game gave decent enough explanations for working with Cerberus. If Shepard was pure Paragon it makes less sense for Cerberus to revive Shepard, but you have to take some hits in the logic department in order to get a game out.

If Cerberus is actully about the advancement of humanity rather then TIM being power mad then it makes some sense.

Miranda says at the start if you save the council that he's a bloody icon and he advanced the human cause by earning the respect of the other races for their sacrifices, so by that thinking he makes a good rallying point for the human led fight against the Reapers.

Also the Council and the Alliance will never trust Cerberus on their own or take the reaper threat seriously if they bring hard evidence because they will automatically assume it's trap, with Shepard as a figurehead on the other hand they might actully trust Cerberus enough for them not dismiss everything they can bring to the table.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 17 février 2010 - 08:16 .

[captain venus]

I hate being part of cerberus. My character would never ever be part of such an evil organisation. I think Bioware need to seriously re-think what actually giving people CHOICES in their games means. If some are happy working for them, then thats up to them ( and they are the lucky ones), but I would very much have liked a CHOICE in this matter. This kind of railroading people is never a good idea in PRG's. I hope I get to kill the the Cerberus boss creep at the end of the game.

[Embrosil]

obie191970 wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

During my first playthrough I was expecting that there will be some point where I can send ILM and the whole Cerberus to hell for all they done. And nothing. I was really fed up. It seems that the murder of admiral Kahoku, inhuman experiments on Akuze and other atrocities are suddenly all right. Even torturing little children is all right now. And all we get is, that it was a rouge cell? Does someone really belives that? I switched to ME2 right after finishing ME1 and I wanted to vomit. Sorry Bioware, but whoever wrote the screenplay should be fired immediately. And the best part is that hunderts of thousands people go missing and Alliance does nothing?! If it was thousand people, no problem. But tens or hundrests of thousands? You really must be joking. They lost 8, I mean EIGHT cruisers, 2400 people. Yet we are told that they are still rebuilding. What the hell are they rebuilding? And no, Cerberus did not save the galaxy instead of Alliance/Council. The screenwriter made Cerberus to look like a savior of the Galaxy. I hate to say, but I will not buy ME3 till I read more about the story. I will rather not play the game than to play a game with bad/stupid story.

The reason that the Council/Alliance is not getting involved is two-pronged.  First, they are rebuilding after the attack on the Citadel where they took a beating.  Secondly, the colonies getting invaded are in the Terminus Systems, where it is clearly explained in ME1 that a Council/Alliance show of force there would incite a full blown war.  Furthermore, it is explained that the humans who colonize these worlds do so at their own risk.  The Terminus Systems "are populated by a loose affiliation of minor species, united only in their refusal to acknowledge the political authority of the Council or adhere to the Citadel Conventions."

Now, you may not like the story - That is your right not to.  But to say that the story does not fit into what has been written in both ME1 and the two books is completely wrong.

What are they rebuilding! Alliance lost 8, yes EIGHT cruisers, 2400 people. What the hell is there to rebuild? I can undesrstand the Council's position, but the excuse for Alliance not getting involved is pathetic. What you say is that if today Somalian pirates kidnap a ship, nobody should do anything, because they were warned to go there on their own risk and that Somalian coast  "is populated by a loose affiliation of  humans, united only in their refusal to acknowledge the political authority of the United Nations or adhere to the United Nations Conventions". 

Modifié par Embrosil, 18 février 2010 - 07:21 .