203 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthCaine]

Why Cerberus? Why Specters? Why Grey Wardens? Why Jedi?

[Alchemist02]

Cerberus is a means to an end..



What do you think the concil would let you do if you keep being the human spectre? At best you'd be allowed to return to hunting the geth and stopping them, After the geth are gone you'll be useless to the concil and they will either throw you off or give you some unimporant missions to distract you.



They completely dismissed the reapers as just myths and they'r not going to belive you no matter what little speech you bring up.



Just because your a ''good guy'' does not mean your an idiot.



You know the reapers are real, Cerebus knows the reapers are real, They want to stop them, You want to stop them.



Its a matter of the lesser evil here, You tell me which is worse, The Genocidal space squids or Cerebus?



Not denying cerebus did alot of messed up things but compared to what the reapers will do/Has done it by far overshadows ANYTHING cerebus has done.

[Jax Sparrow]

I believe anyone who questions Cerberus as being the villain should really look at the whole story more clearly. Cerberus is a guard dog to hell. They ARE painted as an organization of villainy in ME1 but in ME2 they do absolute fantastic job of forcing people to see that there might be more grey than black to them. On the other hand, the Shadow Broker is painted as a tool and in league with the Reapers at worse. So are you really glade that you sold those Cerberus files to the Shadow Broker in ME1?



However, I believe in the Council and that is why I saved them in the first place. The Alliance military needs the Council and the Spectres just as much as they need humans. Their continued disbelief regarding Reapers is a classic case of denial and I fail to see how that makes them into trolls. Despite this I see the need for Cerberus too, I just plan on 'overhauling' Cerberus if they give me the option. Timmy has allowed himself to get tunnel myopic vision on the reapers and needs to be forcibly shoved a step back.



So, overall story wise Cerberus represents a different way of achieving the same goal. They are the renegade point of view and yet they CAN be cooperative with the Council. Just like Mordin's Salarian special forces. The purpose of making ME2 so Cerberus centric is because ME1 is so Council centric. I feel the final chapter will probably involve both.

[Vaeliorin]

DarthCaine wrote...
Why Cerberus? Why Specters? Why Grey Wardens? Why Jedi?

None of those groups (other than Cerberus) have questionable goals and motivations.

[Vanaer]

I didn't mind working for Cerberus, first of all, even though I didn't trust them at first, their cause seemed legitimate. They brought you back to life and they admit they were wrong at certain points (for example Pragia). And like is said before: Spectres aren't all goodies and sunshine either.



Cerberus is good with me... still hope I can convince TIM to cooperate more with aliens.

[UnAffectedFiddle]

Because of the overarching theme is humanities place in a Galatic Community. In ME:1 you could wipe out the council and make it a human dominated government. In ME:2 you could give humanity (Cerberus, which means it wont be shared with aliens since only a human organisation knows about it) access to some of the ultimate tech in the universe. I bet in ME:3 your able to set up humanity as top dog.



Cereberus is there to make you question the once simple pro alien and anti alien themes with a more mixed area where they arent all simply xenophobes, but more like a branch of humanity who serves humanities goals directly. Salarians have the STG, Asari have commandoes while they also both have traditional militaries tied to the Citadel.



I actually found my Shep leaning towards the Cereberus organisation and especially TIM though I didnt agree with all their methods (even the Alliance has dubious experiments, Salarians are messing around with the Genophage and so on). Also, Martin Sheen is my man crush /blush.

[Darth_Trethon]

Vaeliorin wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...
Why Cerberus? Why Specters? Why Grey Wardens? Why Jedi?

None of those groups (other than Cerberus) have questionable goals and motivations.

1) Yes they do....all of them. Especially Spectres.

2) Cerberus>Spectres>Grey Wardens>Jedi

[Nick Fox]

I for one is a little surprised with working with/for Cerberus from the get go in this game at all.
Would've been better if BW had let that be an option further down in the game or in the third one as a chice. I see them as the dark side sith lord (TIM) and the council beeing the republic counterpart from the Star Wars theme games/worlds. So much potential in the cerberus/Alliance/Council storywise that I think was kind of wasted in this game. Sure you get to see the bad things they do in ME! and perhaps some of the good in ME 2. That doesnt change that i hoped for much more than this really. Taking a stance andmake your chices of how the universe should be like is what BW is after, no ? Humans on top seems to be the only real option for them (the lack of any Council/alliance involvment in this game).
I understand that there is political and military dissorder raging, but to have no involvment/story involving your past history (pretty much anyway) just isnt a bright idea to me.
Feels like this trilogy is getting more and more linear and obvious.
Why did Shepard have to die at all for this sequal again? I dont get it, you can implant Cerberus in a much better way as an option.

More subtile threats would be most welcome too, some kind of betrayal and infiltration in your team or at least something that makes you think it could be (keep you on your toes and wondering). This Cerb... thing is a tad little to obvious....!
Oh and try not to waste the oppurtunity with the SB in this way too BW please.
That is something I looked forward to from the first time I heard about SB. Make SB important and not just some side misson for the ME 3 and I may still be interessted.

[Nick Fox]

Sorry doubble.

Modifié par Nick Fox, 18 février 2010 - 12:47 .

[smudgedhorizon]

I must admit I didn't feel the same passion or enjoyment about the ME2 missions. I felt more like a terrorist than a hero. I don't believe the ends justify the means and I don't see why, with it being human colonies affected, the Alliance wouldn't have got involved.



Mostly I didn't like that I couldn't choose NOT to work with Cerberus. When the game is supposed to be all about our choices and having seen in ME1 how Cerberus operate without ethics or concern for anything but their own agenda, I think it is essentially a really sad continuation of Shepard's story, and humanity's story.

[beserker7]

smudgedhorizon wrote...

I must admit I didn't feel the same passion or enjoyment about the ME2 missions. I felt more like a terrorist than a hero. I don't believe the ends justify the means and I don't see why, with it being human colonies affected, the Alliance wouldn't have got involved.

Mostly I didn't like that I couldn't choose NOT to work with Cerberus. When the game is supposed to be all about our choices and having seen in ME1 how Cerberus operate without ethics or concern for anything but their own agenda, I think it is essentially a really sad continuation of Shepard's story, and humanity's story.

Well said.

[obie191970]

smudgedhorizon wrote...

I must admit I didn't feel the same passion or enjoyment about the ME2 missions. I felt more like a terrorist than a hero. I don't believe the ends justify the means and I don't see why, with it being human colonies affected, the Alliance wouldn't have got involved.

Mostly I didn't like that I couldn't choose NOT to work with Cerberus. When the game is supposed to be all about our choices and having seen in ME1 how Cerberus operate without ethics or concern for anything but their own agenda, I think it is essentially a really sad continuation of Shepard's story, and humanity's story.

Can you choose not to become a Spectre in ME1?  Or not be grounded by the Alliance and called a delusional lunatic by the Council?  There is a lot of gray with all these organizations.

And the Alliance not getting invloved with the affected Colonies is very easy to understand.  First, they took a beating on the Citadel 2 years ago and have yet to fully regroup to amass a protective force.  And, even if they were able to, the Colonies being raIded are in the Terminus Systems, where the Alliance would risk all out war if displayed a large presence there.  It's very clearly told to you in ME1 that humans Colonizing the Terminus System planet are pretty much on there own.  Just look at the one Settler's reaction to Ashley/Kaiden when you are talking to him/her after finishing up Horizon.

[Loot Scrounger]

I think it's a cop out by the writers. It's a lot easier, and lazier, to start over with a new plot than to continue with the same story thread. Instead we have to fly around the galaxy collecting party members. Why Cerberus could not have assembled your party while you were in a coma for two years I don't know.

[obie191970]

Loot Scrounger wrote...

I think it's a cop out by the writers. It's a lot easier, and lazier, to start over with a new plot than to continue with the same story thread. Instead we have to fly around the galaxy collecting party members. Why Cerberus could not have assembled your party while you were in a coma for two years I don't know.

After two novels and two games by the same writer that flesh out this galaxy, I would hardly call it a cop out.  And there are people who are willing to work for Shepard but not Cerberus - That's about as blatantly obvious as it can get..

[Cluck Norris]

Probably the worst decision Bioware has ever made. My Shepard would never work for Cerberus... ever.

If they really wanted to actually do something different, and not dumb their game down, they could have given us the option to work with cerberus or not.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

It's a pity you didn't get a chance to infiltrate Cerberus on behalf of either The Council or Captain Anderson; that would have given you a choice whether you're going to work for Cerberus, or just be with them and work against them somewhat,



I also hope the bit in one of the missions, can't say anything more or it'll be a spoiler, comes home to roost in ME3, that would be something I suppose.

[captain venus]

beserker7 wrote...

smudgedhorizon wrote...

I must admit I didn't feel the same passion or enjoyment about the ME2 missions. I felt more like a terrorist than a hero. I don't believe the ends justify the means and I don't see why, with it being human colonies affected, the Alliance wouldn't have got involved.

Mostly I didn't like that I couldn't choose NOT to work with Cerberus. When the game is supposed to be all about our choices and having seen in ME1 how Cerberus operate without ethics or concern for anything but their own agenda, I think it is essentially a really sad continuation of Shepard's story, and humanity's story.

Well said.

I agree. Playing through ME2; I felt disconnected from my character and thus felt no immersive gameplay because of this fact.  I can't play how I want to in ME2 becasue I can't play my character the way I want to, and just feel completley manipulated all the way through the game.

RPG's are supposed to be about choices, and yet we are NOT given choice about one of the games most fundamental apsects.
Given the choice my character would chose NOT to have anything to do with Cerberus. I still remember what they did to Admiral Khohoku!!

[obie191970]

captain venus wrote...

I agree. Playing through ME2; I felt disconnected from my character and thus felt no immersive gameplay because of this fact.  I can't play how I want to in ME2 becasue I can't play my character the way I want to, and just feel completley manipulated all the way through the game.

RPG's are supposed to be about choices, and yet we are NOT given choice about one of the games most fundamental apsects.
Given the choice my character would chose NOT to have anything to do with Cerberus. I still remember what they did to Admiral Khohoku!!

Just to play Devil's Advocate, you were not given a choice about the games most fundamental aspects in ME1 either.  I understand that you are playing a do-good Paragon character.  But that Shepard has been dead for two years and has been brought back to life to find out that both the Council and the Alliance either disowned him or proclained him dead.  There are human colonies being raided by the Collectors and neither the Council or Alliance will do anything because the colonies are in the Terminus Systems - Oh, and good luck trying to convince them anyway, we all know how that typically goes.

So, your do-good Shepard knows that even though Cerberus is a completely shady organization, they are the only avenue to complete his ultimate goals.  Don't forget, at the end of ME1, as you are walking away from the Council, your do-good Shepard says "This isn't over, and I'll do whatever it takes to end this.(Obviously, not exact quote, but you get the gist of it.)  So, your do-good Shepard has a choice to make to save the colonies from further destruction.  He can do nothing.  Or he takes the help of Cerberus with their cast resources and money  - Oh, and as an added bonus - He gets to screw Cerberus over the entire time.

Personally(And hopefully), I think it sets up an epic Council/Alliance vs. Cerberus showdown in ME3.  As a Paragon, you can go one way, as a Renegade another.  I liked the way they made ME2 a darker story with a lot of morally grey areas to it.  ME1 was very easy to play as a Paragon and difficult to play as a Renegade - ME2 is the exact opposite - Hopefully your do-good Shepard will get retribution in the end.

[harazal]

I have to be honest, seeing what the allaince did after my shep died and left them the council, i was disgusted by them. I no longer have time for an entity that won't put humanity first.

[Big_Stupid_Jelly]

harazal wrote...

I have to be honest, seeing what the allaince did after my shep died and left them the council, i was disgusted by them. I no longer have time for an entity that won't put humanity first.

The problem with that is that Cerberus, puts Cerberus first.

[Splinter Cell 108]

I did miss the Alliance and the Spectres. Although in ME2 they did introduce another side of the Alliance. I'm sure Admiral Hackett and Captain Anderson would have authorized Shepard to go after the Collectors. They're only two people and the Alliance has more than those leaders. As we saw in ME2 most of those disapproved of an alien crew and of Shepard's work. The Council is just as foolish as in the past, I saved them however. I bet it could've been done without Cerberus. If Shepard would have survived then I bet he could have done something. After all he's a Spectre, but there are complications such as getting a new ship. I doubt the Alliance would provide another ship especially since they went bad and stopped listening.



Cerberus is bad IMO, working for them is a bad idea but there was no other choice. Nobody else was willing to do anything about it but them. Sure the Alliance did try to protect Horizon but their inefficiency got half the colonists kidnapped and killed. They couldn't install the weapons in time to stop the Collectors and they failed to listen to Shepard's warnings. I hope things are different in ME3, I quit Cerberus. They showed their true colors when it came to that damn base. It's always the same with them, it's always all about humanity. I'm betting that the Alliance and the Council are so stubborn that everyone at the beginning of ME3 will get tried for working with Cerberus.

[UnAffectedFiddle]

I still have to say I enjoyed working with them. Every race has dirty laundry and the poor unfortunates who need to do the cleaning. You think the STG are much better? Fine if you think a group of Salarian high tech "special forces" should be allowed to genetically tinker with races. How the hell do we know they havent tinkered with humans? Turians were more than happy to smoke humans back to the stone age as well. The Batarians almost destroyed Earth and have caused widespread slavery and destruction on human colonies.



Asari Justicars and Commandoes. Its essentially a faction of crazy long living Jedi without the guilt of light/dark arguments. Might I point out the Alliance isnt all happy go riainbow dancing either.



Remember Kaidens story? Earth is still torn between the mega wealthy nations and the dirt poor. Like every space story they also dont give a rats arse about people living on the fringe to get away from the Alliance interfering in everything.



The Alliance are following "the end justify the means" because they wont say a bad word against any other species to save their own. I mean Anderson is practically treated as a Joke by the other council members. Aliens are openly holding Anti-Human propaganda and tens of thousads of dead humans dont qualify as important to the Council but we have to risk the entire galaxy to save their silly arses during ME:1.



Cerberus is also portrayed as kind of open, the mission reports show they do have a quiet and in helping other races and humanity with the overreaching goal that we NEED to stop the Reapers. They dont always make the right choices, and as Miranda says even she disagrees with some of the things they do, but which race has?



I found TiM likeable, eve if I didnt agree with his methods in some areas. Cerberus may attract xenophobes but as Miranda says, they are sorely lacking levelheaded, open minded people because Cereberus is far more than a simple anti alien ovement.



That being said ME:3 better let us be a "pirate" flying around independant of any organisation picking up who and what we can to fight the Reapers.

[lightfoxZ]

I couldn't agree more here. Regardless of the way you choose to end the first ME, the galaxy owns you big time, so i don't see why the council and/or the alliance would close their eyes when colonies are attacked whereas Cerberus of all thing do care.



I suppose forcing Shepard to work with cerberus, along with evertything that follows in the game is meant to give a darker touch to the story, but at the price of terrible inconsistencies, especially if you played a paragorn in ME1.

[xODD7BALLx]

Yeah personally I'd like to wipe Cerberus out especially with the Adm Kahoku, Toombs, thresher maw experiments. You should be able to join up with Toombs and hunt TIM down put 2 in his head for good measure.



I do miss the feeling of becoming, like in ME1, when you became a Spectre it was reflected in your skills, the further you went the more elite you were, in ME2 I felt like we started from scratch(yeah I know 2 years, rebuilt), but even in the end I didnt have that sense of, yeah this dude is badass, and this team is elite, like I did in ME1.

[Sniper11709]

Embrosil wrote...

obie191970 wrote...

Embrosil wrote...

During my first playthrough I was expecting that there will be some point where I can send ILM and the whole Cerberus to hell for all they done. And nothing. I was really fed up. It seems that the murder of admiral Kahoku, inhuman experiments on Akuze and other atrocities are suddenly all right. Even torturing little children is all right now. And all we get is, that it was a rouge cell? Does someone really belives that? I switched to ME2 right after finishing ME1 and I wanted to vomit. Sorry Bioware, but whoever wrote the screenplay should be fired immediately. And the best part is that hunderts of thousands people go missing and Alliance does nothing?! If it was thousand people, no problem. But tens or hundrests of thousands? You really must be joking. They lost 8, I mean EIGHT cruisers, 2400 people. Yet we are told that they are still rebuilding. What the hell are they rebuilding? And no, Cerberus did not save the galaxy instead of Alliance/Council. The screenwriter made Cerberus to look like a savior of the Galaxy. I hate to say, but I will not buy ME3 till I read more about the story. I will rather not play the game than to play a game with bad/stupid story.

The reason that the Council/Alliance is not getting involved is two-pronged.  First, they are rebuilding after the attack on the Citadel where they took a beating.  Secondly, the colonies getting invaded are in the Terminus Systems, where it is clearly explained in ME1 that a Council/Alliance show of force there would incite a full blown war.  Furthermore, it is explained that the humans who colonize these worlds do so at their own risk.  The Terminus Systems "are populated by a loose affiliation of minor species, united only in their refusal to acknowledge the political authority of the Council or adhere to the Citadel Conventions."

Now, you may not like the story - That is your right not to.  But to say that the story does not fit into what has been written in both ME1 and the two books is completely wrong.

What are they rebuilding! Alliance lost 8, yes EIGHT cruisers, 2400 people. What the hell is there to rebuild? I can undesrstand the Council's position, but the excuse for Alliance not getting involved is pathetic. What you say is that if today Somalian pirates kidnap a ship, nobody should do anything, because they were warned to go there on their own risk and that Somalian coast  "is populated by a loose affiliation of  humans, united only in their refusal to acknowledge the political authority of the United Nations or adhere to the United Nations Conventions". 

Did you ever think it was the lack of casualties that dosen't make sense. At the end of ME1 they make it sound like there will be mass casualties if you save the Council but in the end you only lose 8 ships, sounds more like Bioware decided against making the paragons feel repercussions for their actions, to be fair neither did renegades face any repercussions for letting the Council die except for some talk about how we performed a coup.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 19 février 2010 - 04:47 .