102 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

It appears that ALL three of the shield abilities stay at full power for the duration on the tutorial level but go away entirely as soon as you lose shields any where else. Which version is working as intended? Here is a youtube video showing what happens. 

www.youtube.com/watch

When it finishes processing it will be in 720p if that helps things. Please take not of how the bonuses stay on Shepard after losing shields in the tutorial, but don't at freedom's progress.

here is another vid I just made 

here it is it shows the cool down bonuses in effect and that they all last essentially the same amount of time against a lone vorcha. In a group, it basically lasts no time at all. 






[original post down here]

Just wondering if fortification is currently working as intended. I ask because all the other bonus abilities serve a purpose, but it seems as though fortification is just a bad version of barrier or geth shield boost. From what I understand barrier gets all the benefits of biotic upgrades, while geth shield boost gets all the benefits of tech upgrades, the 2 geth shield upgrades, AND it has a +10% damage bonus to differentiate itself. Fortification on the other hand seems to offer the same 100% for 60 sec or 75% for 180 second bonuses, but gets no benefits from anything else. It's just surprising that an ability that's clearly inferior to two comparable abilities is working as intended. Is there some kind o invisible bonus (like shotguns shooting 8 pellets even though only 4 are rendered) that we don't know about? Any help would be greatly appreciated.  

Modifié par sinosleep, 17 février 2010 - 04:25 .

[sinosleep]

BUMP

[Thadar69]

I second this question. One of the two scenarios is clearly wrong. Which one is it? That is the question...

[smavrakis2]

Wow, if the tutorial version is the intended one, vanguards get a big boost.

[Orfinn]

That was indeed weird.. Some clarification here?

[mayatola]

Do you think that perhaps having Miranda on your squad has something to do with it? You have 258 health and shields as a soldier at level 5 in the tutorial mission. Then on Freedom's Progress, you're now level 6, but down to 257 health and shields? Maybe her squad bonus is somehow messing things up, or I dunno. Looks like you didn't change up any equipment (I doubt you would have anyway to keep your testing accurate).



Maybe you can try more tests without her in squad?

[Kronner]

if it worked like in the tutorial during the actual game then it would be way too overpowered

[amrose2]

I hope this can be addressed

[Seblun]

I've been wondering the same exact thing. Clarification is needed.

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...

if it worked like in the tutorial during the actual game then it would be way too overpowered

Not really. I was testing this out earlier this morning on a lone vorcha on the blood pack base where they were using vorcha as workers or some such. I hid my squad mates, walked out and let a vorcha shoot me with his assault rifle. In one spray he completely eliminated my standard barrier then reloaded. I then walked away, cast barrier and came back out. In one spray he took out about 3/4 of it, he reloaded and then finished the barrier off. I think if anything, as it is now it's broken. Even doubled, shields in this game don't last long enough to dump 10 points into. Even as a vanguard, with the charge bonus stacked on top of barrier I maxed out at 800 some odd shields (charge gets a 4 second boost to shields so normally barrier was topping out at around 530). Those 800 some odd shields were taken down in their entirety by 3 vorcha in about 3 seconds. At which point, the way they function as of now, I'd have to waste another 12 second cool down casting barrier, then another charge to get boosted to 800 + shields for all of 3 seconds. You can't even get off another charge before your shields are completely busted (and thus your barrier completely wasted) 9/10. Working like they do in the tutorial it'd actually make shield powers a worthwhile investment. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 15 février 2010 - 08:55 .

[mayatola]

Never mind, I tried fortification on my engineer on Horizon without Miranda and it goes down same as barrier. Wonder why your health and shields went down by a point though.

[amrose2]

sinosleep wrote...

Kronner wrote...

if it worked like in the tutorial during the actual game then it would be way too overpowered

Not really. I was testing this out earlier this morning on a lone vorcha on the blood pack base where they were using vorcha as workers or some such. I hid my squad mates, walked out and let a vorcha shoot me with his assault rifle. In one spray he completely eliminated my standard barrier then reloaded. I then walked away, cast barrier and came back out. In one spray he took out about 3/4 of it, he reloaded and then finished the barrier off. I think if anything, as it is now it's broken. Even doubled, shields in this game don't last long enough to dump 10 points into. Even as a vanguard, with the charge bonus stacked on top of barrier I maxed out at 800 some odd shields (charge gets a 4 second boost to shields so normally barrier was topping out at around 530). Those 800 some odd shields were taken down in their entirety by 3 vorcha in about 3 seconds. At which point, the way they function as of now, I'd have to waste another 12 second cool down casting barrier, then another charge to get boosted to 800 + shields for all of 3 seconds. You can't even get off another charge before your shields are completely busted (and thus your barrier completely wasted) 9/10. Working like they do in the tutorial it'd actually make shield powers a worthwhile investment. 

Exactly, and the choice between more shielding and the 180 second duration would be much more meaningful as well

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Kronner wrote...

if it worked like in the tutorial during the actual game then it would be way too overpowered

Not really. I was testing this out earlier this morning on a lone vorcha on the blood pack base where they were using vorcha as workers or some such. I hid my squad mates, walked out and let a vorcha shoot me with his assault rifle. In one spray he completely eliminated my standard barrier then reloaded. I then walked away, cast barrier and came back out. In one spray he took out about 3/4 of it, he reloaded and then finished the barrier off. I think if anything, as it is now it's broken. Even doubled, shields in this game don't last long enough to dump 10 points into. Even as a vanguard, with the charge bonus stacked on top of barrier I maxed out at 800 some odd shields (charge gets a 4 second boost to shields so normally barrier was topping out at around 530). Those 800 some odd shields were taken down in their entirety by 3 vorcha in about 3 seconds. At which point, the way they function as of now, I'd have to waste another 12 second cool down casting barrier, then another charge to get boosted to 800 + shields for all of 3 seconds. You can't even get off another charge before your shields are completely busted (and thus your barrier completely wasted) 9/10. Working like they do in the tutorial it'd actually make shield powers a worthwhile investment. 

As a Vanguard every fraction of second counts. It is still difference to have health+barrier or health+barrier+another shield, if it stayed on for the whole duration, you could replenish immense amount of barrier every few seconds, Vanguards are already killing machines and if fortification worked like it does in tutorial then Vanguards would be invincible killing machines.
Even the description says "brief but massive bonus to your defense".
There are a lot of useless skills, I do not see why would fortification be any different.

Modifié par Kronner, 15 février 2010 - 09:00 .

[sinosleep]

amrose2 wrote...
Exactly, and the choice between more shielding and the 180 second duration would be much more meaningful as well

Yeah, I agree. Honestly, the easiest way I can break it down is like this. If the shield powers, as they currently function, aren't worth it on an in your face class that can fully recharge shields at will every 3 seconds, how on earth is it going to be worth it for classes that are supposed to waste 12 second cool downs on it with no way of refilling them? 

[SmilingMirror]

I don't think this happens to barrier on my xbox version

[Warskullx]

If the shields stayed on they would actually be good, but not overpowered. I hope Bioware takes a look at this.

[Omega-202]

Has anyone PM'd this thread to Christina? This really should be brought to their attention.



My Barrier users had simply accepted the status quo as it was, but if there is a legitimate discrepancy between functionality at different points in the game, it should be addressed.



It may make Barrier and GSB more competitive with Reave and AP rounds as highly sought after bonus powers. As is, they are situational at best.

[davidshooter]

I would consider barrier/shield/fortification as a bonus talent if it functioned the way it does in that tutorial.

As they play now though, they just aren't worth the point investment on higher difficulties compared to the damage powers.

I'm curious to know the answers too.

Good find.

Modifié par davidshooter, 16 février 2010 - 01:07 .

[sinosleep]

I didn't find it on my own, the credit for that goes to gr00grams. What I did was make a more in depth fraps vid as well as confirm that the same thing applies to GSB and Barrier in the tutorial. That and put it in a thread that hopefully is more likely to get dev attention than where the discussion was originally taking place.

[Mordigan]

sinosleep wrote...

Not really. I was testing this out earlier this morning on a lone vorcha on the blood pack base where they were using vorcha as workers or some such. I hid my squad mates, walked out and let a vorcha shoot me with his assault rifle. In one spray he completely eliminated my standard barrier then reloaded. I then walked away, cast barrier and came back out. In one spray he took out about 3/4 of it, he reloaded and then finished the barrier off. I think if anything, as it is now it's broken. Even doubled, shields in this game don't last long enough to dump 10 points into. Even as a vanguard, with the charge bonus stacked on top of barrier I maxed out at 800 some odd shields (charge gets a 4 second boost to shields so normally barrier was topping out at around 530). Those 800 some odd shields were taken down in their entirety by 3 vorcha in about 3 seconds. At which point, the way they function as of now, I'd have to waste another 12 second cool down casting barrier, then another charge to get boosted to 800 + shields for all of 3 seconds. You can't even get off another charge before your shields are completely busted (and thus your barrier completely wasted) 9/10. Working like they do in the tutorial it'd actually make shield powers a worthwhile investment. 

Was this on insanity?

Christina has repeatedly said that the game was balanced around normal difficulty, so I'm sure the shields hold up much better on that setting..

On insanity, shields get torn up so quickly, that it's like you're wearing rice paper..

Thats one of the reasons I don't like playing insanity, because of the artificially increased difficulty.  Enemies have dramatically increased damage and protection, whilst your own attacks and defenses are much weaker in comparison..

If insanity had smarter A.I or more enemies, then I'd play it.......tougher enemies is the cheap way of making the game more difficult.

[The JoeMan]

Bump. I'd really like to know the answer to the OPs questions as well.

[Average Gatsby]

bumped for knowledge

[Graunt]

Reposting from the other thread in regards to the 2/2 Geth shield upgrade (50%) supposedly only applying to the Geth Shield Boost talent.

I'm almost 100% sure that the 2/2 50% Geth shield upgrade is applied to
your base shields and those shields only and has zero effect on any
activated shields such as Barrier, Geth Shield Boost and Fortification.

Base shields = 350 (and 2/2 Geth shield upgrade)
Base + Heavy Fortification = 600
Base + Heavy Geth Shield = 600
Base + Heavy Barrier = 600

Eh nevermind, the 2/2 upgrade only works on Legion, even though it doesn't say that at all in it's description.  The game also seems to only apply the 75% and 100% bonus to shields based off your starting shields (250) and does not factor in any upgrades into the final score.

Modifié par Graunt, 16 février 2010 - 07:05 .

[_Dannok1234]

Kronner wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Kronner wrote...

if it worked like in the tutorial during the actual game then it would be way too overpowered

Not really. I was testing this out earlier this morning on a lone vorcha on the blood pack base where they were using vorcha as workers or some such. I hid my squad mates, walked out and let a vorcha shoot me with his assault rifle. In one spray he completely eliminated my standard barrier then reloaded. I then walked away, cast barrier and came back out. In one spray he took out about 3/4 of it, he reloaded and then finished the barrier off. I think if anything, as it is now it's broken. Even doubled, shields in this game don't last long enough to dump 10 points into. Even as a vanguard, with the charge bonus stacked on top of barrier I maxed out at 800 some odd shields (charge gets a 4 second boost to shields so normally barrier was topping out at around 530). Those 800 some odd shields were taken down in their entirety by 3 vorcha in about 3 seconds. At which point, the way they function as of now, I'd have to waste another 12 second cool down casting barrier, then another charge to get boosted to 800 + shields for all of 3 seconds. You can't even get off another charge before your shields are completely busted (and thus your barrier completely wasted) 9/10. Working like they do in the tutorial it'd actually make shield powers a worthwhile investment. 

As a Vanguard every fraction of second counts. It is still difference to have health+barrier or health+barrier+another shield, if it stayed on for the whole duration, you could replenish immense amount of barrier every few seconds, Vanguards are already killing machines and if fortification worked like it does in tutorial then Vanguards would be invincible killing machines.
Even the description says "brief but massive bonus to your defense".
There are a lot of useless skills, I do not see why would fortification be any different.

You wouldn't be replenishing that much of the total with each new charge. If you notice when you charge and have no shields, you do not actually get the full 600, but rather your original barrier. So even if you had 850(350+250+250) you'd only get 350/250 (depending on how it works. I'd like some more numbers in the hud) refreshed with each charge. (Still not fully convinced that it does in fact add on top of Heavy Charge bonus)

Edit: Just tried against 1 geth trooper level 30 insanity. I'm not sure if I could tell the difference between 850 shields and 600. Seemed that one salvo of fire would take down the shield well before it had to reload. Somewhat unsure as sometimes it would pause firing for a bit which gave the shield a bit of time to regen before it fired again which added(about) another second. But I think thats the most you can hope for. 10 points in a shield skill might, if you are lucky, buy you a second or so.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 16 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[davidshooter]

Bumping - important thread.