102 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...

Now lets assume Fortification is inferior to both Shield and Barrier = that is a problem you say.
But each of them boosts different stuff /armor/shield/barrier = it IS different.

It's not different because while the game says that they boost different things they all show up boosting either your barrier or shields since the PC doesn't have an armor stat. So no, they don't boost different things. Shredder ammo is an active, visible + damage to health. GSB, barrier, and fortification all appear to boost shield/barrier. 

[sinosleep]

@skw3000

I was originally going to do it that way but 1.) it'd make for a longer video, and 2.) I explained in the op (or at least I thought I did I'll re-read it) that ALL of the shield talents were functioning the same way. If they are all functioning the same way, why record all three? 

[swk3000]

Editing this post.

Modifié par swk3000, 17 février 2010 - 02:17 .

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

It's not different because while the game says that they boost different things they all show up boosting either your barrier or shields since the PC doesn't have an armor stat. So no, they don't boost different things. Shredder ammo is an active, visible + damage to health. GSB, barrier, and fortification all appear to boost shield/barrier. 

Well, it does stack no matter what you have (barrier or shield) but that does not mean that all 3 of them offer the same kind of protection. I am not gonna test this 'cos I do not really care about that, but it makes sense to me.
Grunt does not have armor either and yet he does have Fortification.

edit: Grunt HAS armor, my bad

Modifié par Kronner, 17 février 2010 - 02:19 .

[GCreature]

Grunt has armour.

[Kronner]

GCreature wrote...

Grunt has armour.

Ah, my mistake, thanks.
But still, the point stands, it MAY offer different protection. I doubt anyone is gonna actually test it though, would take too much time and it aint worth it imho.

[swk3000]

...And editing a post doesn't actually edit it. These forums are really weird.



Anyway, sinosleep, while I do note that you say what's happening in the post, having proper video proof to back it up would strengthen your case. If you're worried about Video length, then just do one power, and make sure to add some text somewhere in the video saying that the same thing happens with the other two. It's not what I'd call a perfect solution, but it would be clear enough to get the point across that two different things are happening with the same power.

[GCreature]

Kronner wrote...

GCreature wrote...

Grunt has armour.

Ah, my mistake, thanks.
But still, the point stands, it MAY offer different protection. I doubt anyone is gonna actually test it though, would take too much time and it aint worth it imho.

The thing is when you use Fort' or Barrier on a Soldier you're still listed as just having shields on the squad screen and the colour of your shield bar stays the same.

Imo it'd be odd having these different damage resistances on your pc, but not having any visual references on your HUD, or indications on your party menu.

[Kronner]

GCreature wrote...

The thing is when you use Fort' or Barrier on a Soldier you're still listed as just having shields on the squad screen and the colour of your shield bar stays the same.

Imo it'd be odd having these different damage resistances on your pc, but not having any visual references on your HUD, or indications on your party menu.

Yeah, I am aware of the fact that there is no way to tell what protections you have on, but it might once again be rendering decision (only 4 SG pellets rendered, but in fact it fires off 8).
Or maybe it is really the same and Fort' is clearly inferior, it would still not be a problem, but that is just my opinion.

Modifié par Kronner, 17 février 2010 - 02:30 .

[Anew614]

Bump

[Kronner]

Dev answer would be really good, we shall bump this thread until BW gives us the answer

[Anew614]

Agreed

[Sarevok Anchev]

Maybe i am too practical, but i dont give a damn for 3 powers, that are almost useless on Insanity...

So testing is useless and i dont think there will be any Patch (either Debug or Tweak or Restat)

for this.

[CLime]

Before coming across this topic, the "gimped" version of the shield powers is how I had been assuming all of them worked: gives you a one-shot shield boost and when it's gone, it's gone.  Yes, I did think the longer-duration evolutions were all worthless, and no, I didn't find that particularly odd.

I had Barrier on my Shep for a good bit of the game, and usually just cast it once before entering a battle and let it wear off afterward.  Tactical Cloak -> headshot used up most of my cooldowns anyway, so a free shield boost, however small, was more useful and filled a bigger niche than a superfulous Inferno Grenade or whatever.

Though now that I think about it, a smaller (based off base shields, which it may be anyway) boost that actually last more than one twitch of a geth trooper's finger would be a bit more balanced.  And I agree it's a bit silly that Fortification is apparently strictly inferior to Barrier.

[sinosleep]

I'm not even asking for a patch or whatever, I'm asking if this was the intended use. I made a new vid showing the GSB/barrier cooldown bonuses in effect. Also showing they all last essentially the same amount of time against a lone vorcha. Will be adding to the op.



here it is

[amrose2]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Maybe i am too practical, but i dont give a damn for 3 powers, that are almost useless on Insanity...
So testing is useless and i dont think there will be any Patch (either Debug or Tweak or Restat)
for this.

I don't agree. There is obviously a bug here, either in the tutorial, or in the rest of the game. Either way, it should be fixed.

[davidshooter]

That video says it all when it comes to the shield/barrier powers and how they perform in game, 1 enemy and about 1 second of protection - not much for 10 skill points.

It's a bit disappointing that this question is simply being ignored without even an acknowledgement of it's exsistence  from the devs.  It's a fair and sincere question about a real game mechanic incongruency.

@Sarevok

It is entirely possible that the three powers in question are useless on insanity simply because they aren't working properly. That is the point of the videos and the questions directed at the devs. If they aren't working properly perhaps a fix to enable them to work properly is possible - or perhaps not. Either way people just want to get to the bottom of the issue.

Modifié par davidshooter, 17 février 2010 - 05:13 .

[sinosleep]

Also, I'd just again like to reiterate. It's not really about whether the skills are gimped or not, it's about if they are working as intended. I understand the game isn't balanced around insanity and if the shield skills are working as intended and I think they're weak well, so be it. I just want to be sure they aren't bugged.

[Sarevok Anchev]

@davidshooter: Hmmm... maybe the Enemys get some kind of Modifier for Damage-Types?



So it would be understandable, why even a low LOKI-Mech can shoot down your upped Shields with one Salvo

[Christina Norman]

Fortification / GSB / Barrier are very similar powers. I agree Fortification is the weakest of the three because it doesn't benefit from cooldown tech. For the player this doesn't make a lot of sense, for grunt it does (he'd be even more of a beast if he benefited from cooldown tech).

For ME3 I'd like to differentiate these powers because they do feel too similar.

Suggesting the powers are useless is a little silly, there is a lot of use to these powers:
- The primary reason I use GSB/barrier on insanity is to instantly regenerate my shields to full when I'm in trouble
- GSB/barrier stack with tech armor
- The extra shields do make a meaningful difference in survivability. If you disagree with this, fine! Choose a different power.

Regarding behavior on the tutorial level - sounds like a bug that affects only the tutorial level.

Modifié par Christina Norman, 17 février 2010 - 05:35 .

[sinosleep]

Awesome sauce. That's all I wanted to read. They are working as intended, they just aren't as powerful as I'd like them to be. Thanks a million.

At the end of they day they are BONUS powers afterall, so it's not as if you should be basing your entire build around them any way. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 17 février 2010 - 05:37 .

[DirewolfX]

I think fortification could be improved in ME3 without destroying game balance by letting it soak up rapid fire shots better, like actual armored enemies can. While fort is up, you don't take the 1.5/1.25 bonus damage from SMGs/Shotties/ARs. Now it's differentiated so that it's useful despite its longer cooldown.



I actually thought they'd give you a 'third bar' like boss enemies when I first read the description, instead of just supercharging your shields.

[Christina Norman]

The last thing I want to do is increase *your* survivability sinosleep, you already make the game look too easy!

[sinosleep]

Christina Norman wrote...

The last thing I want to do is increase *your* survivability sinosleep, you already make the game look too easy!

You know I'm going to have to add this to my sig right? I put a video up in the engineer thread btw, lots of good vids going up in there. 

[_Dannok1234]

If your still here do the shield powers stack with Heavy Charge at all? (Because I really don't notice any difference, not that it's needed mind you, just good to know)