102 réponses à ce sujet

[mstot]

So are they supposed to refresh after my shields are down, or do I need to reactivate the ability each time?

[sinosleep]

Dannok1234 wrote...

If your still here do the shield powers stack with Heavy Charge at all? (Because I really don't notice any difference, not that it's needed mind you, just good to know)

Yeah they stack. My shields go up to 500 something with barrier alone, then when I charge they go up to 800 something. Without barrier charge brings my shields to 500 something. So yeah, they stack.

[_Dannok1234]

Oh I know the numbers add up on the squad menu, but that doesn't mean it actually works

[sinosleep]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Oh I know the numbers add up on the squad menu, but that doesn't mean it actually works

True, didn't really think about it that way.

[Anew614]

Thanks for the reply christina, I know what i have to do now.



I'ma buy the pc version and mod the hell out of it to my likeing

[Kronner]

Good to know for sure from dev, I also agree it would make Vanguards even more overpowered.

[_Dannok1234]

sinosleep wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...

Oh I know the numbers add up on the squad menu, but that doesn't mean it actually works

True, didn't really think about it that way.

It probably does work. Just that the difference is so small that on insanity you won't notice it 90% of the time. I've been driving myself slightly mad trying to test it. I for the life of me couldn't tell the difference. I think that Geth Trooper I tried it on was a bit too inconsistent with his firing. Sometimes it would take a break which would let me take another salvo regardless. Meaning if I just charged or barried up then charged.

Not that it actually matters either I suppose, not like you need more as it is. Still it's nice to know for sure.

[Divine Flame]

Dannok1234 wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...

Oh I know the numbers add up on the squad menu, but that doesn't mean it actually works

True, didn't really think about it that way.

It probably does work. Just that the difference is so small that on insanity you won't notice it 90% of the time. I've been driving myself slightly mad trying to test it. I for the life of me couldn't tell the difference. I think that Geth Trooper I tried it on was a bit too inconsistent with his firing. Sometimes it would take a break which would let me take another salvo regardless. Meaning if I just charged or barried up then charged.

Not that it actually matters either I suppose, not like you need more as it is. Still it's nice to know for sure.

Couldn't you test it against a heavy mech or something? Since they don't take pauses inbetween shooting see how fast you die one way then reload see how fast you die another way.

[davidshooter]

Thanks for the clarification Christina.



Since I'm the one who called the barrier/GSB useless on insanity I would like to add that I don't have a problem standing by that assessment. I've been recommending damage producing bonus skills and after the video posted above I'm even more sour on the defensive powers.

[gr00grams]

I think a wonderful idea is if the player gained/suffered from the same mechanics we face.

It would give a great deal of diversity.

i.e.

Fortification actually grants armor, and the benefits/weaknesses that accompany it.
Barrier and Shields same deal.

Too bad about fortification though, it's easily the best looking one lol.

EDIT* I would almost have to agree, without a resistance system, or similar, these skills are very lacking in higher modes, but that is somewhat okay.

They make exceptional 1 point wonders, if your build is going to plan on focusing on the skills it already has.
For 1 point you get an 'oh crap' button, which is probably the best thing you can get out of the bonus skills for just one point.

EDIT* Last question, does fortification actually grant armor? or anything different at all? It just looks so much cooler than the other two!

Modifié par gr00grams, 17 février 2010 - 06:23 .

[DragoonKain3]

Wasn't there another thread about Fortification giving you the bonus for its entire duration? In that you can actually regen all the bonus armor back provided you don't take fire long enough? You can't do the same with Barrier/GSB; once your bonus shields are gone, you're stuck with base shields. Heck, fortification remains on even when Grunt dies provided its duration hasn't expired yet.



So yeah, that makes up for the fact that Fortification don't get a cooldown bonus. As I see it, (Heavy) Barrier is for pure defense/oh crap button, (Improved) GSB is there to provide a balance between offense and defense, while (Improved) Fortification is for those who want added protection all the time without resorting to refreshing the power every so often.

[sinosleep]

Dragoon, that only happens in the tutorial section, which also applies to all the other shield powers. The first vid I posted in the op shows that once past the tutorial, fortification drops as soon as your shields do.

[_Dannok1234]

Aha! I found it.(Well maybe, I think, possibly).
When you use heavy charge+barrier, and you for a moment stop taking damage when you are pretty low on shields(1-20%), they boost up about to 25% or so nearly instantly. This only seems to happen while barrier is on. So could be that it's only noticeable if you can avoid incoming fire for second or so. If you keep taking damage, I don't think you can tell the difference. I know I can't. (tried against collector drones this time)

Still would be nice to know for sure. But as gr00grams says I think all the shield skills are great for splashing just 1 point.

Edit: Nevermind, that happens even without heavy barrier on it seems. Back to where I started.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 17 février 2010 - 06:36 .

[DesolCobra]

Christina Norman wrote...

The last thing I want to do is increase *your* survivability sinosleep, you already make the game look too easy!

Oh this is good quote!  Kudos to sinosleep!

[Warskullx]

Christina Norman wrote...

Fortification / GSB / Barrier are very similar powers. I agree Fortification is the weakest of the three because it doesn't benefit from cooldown tech. For the player this doesn't make a lot of sense, for grunt it does (he'd be even more of a beast if he benefited from cooldown tech).

For ME3 I'd like to differentiate these powers because they do feel too similar.

Suggesting the powers are useless is a little silly, there is a lot of use to these powers:
- The primary reason I use GSB/barrier on insanity is to instantly regenerate my shields to full when I'm in trouble
- GSB/barrier stack with tech armor
- The extra shields do make a meaningful difference in survivability. If you disagree with this, fine! Choose a different power.

Regarding behavior on the tutorial level - sounds like a bug that affects only the tutorial level.

Problem is with the shared cooldown system, cooldowns are valuable and refilling your shields on a 12 second isn't very strong.  The opportunity cost of what you could have cast with that cooldown and taken with that slot is pretty high.

[davidshooter]

I just watched the video again from page 1



Has anyone tested just regular old shields against that one Vorcha, or something similar? The maxed out barrier goes down in about 1.5 seconds in Sinosleep's video. That seems to be about the same amount of time that my "shields" last under fire with no barrier skill at all.



I'm honestly wondering if it's actually doing anything at all in game. I know the math is adding up on the screen but has anyone confirmed that the barrier skill is even a slight improvement over regular shields. I'm going to try this myself but thought I would ask as well.

[sinosleep]

expletive deleted.

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 février 2010 - 11:09 .

[NICKjnp]

I personaly like to use energy drain. It fills your shields and drops the shields of other... I play an adept though... so it only works on shielded opponents or mechs (but it does give me a tech power for dealing with non biotic characters).

[aeetos21]

I started out with fortification as my first bonus power, kinda made me discriminate against GDB/barrier after I saw how... ineffective it worked. Still I'm happy with this other build I'm using and see no other reason to change it now.

Modifié par aeetos21, 23 février 2010 - 06:53 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

I had this for my infiltrator @ first then switched to Warp Ammo.



It is pretty much useless on Insanity, even w/ 9.6 sec cooldowns.



Christina per your "panic button" argument......does replentishing your shields also replentish your health? That is the only way I can see it being useful, otherwise there are very few spots in the game where cover is so sparse you can't hide behind and regen.



Does the shield capacitor work when your shields go down to say 20% or is it only when you get down to health, the 10% reduction time is noticeable and could make barrier/GS slightly better..........I'm looking for excuses to use them, but finding it hard lol.

[ArmeniusLOD]

So what exactly is the point of the long durations of these powers if they wear off as soon as your shields are depleted? If it was only intended to be used as a panic power, then why not just increase the boost to your shields instead of increasing the duration when putting points in them? It seems to me that something went very wrong in the designing of these powers, not to mention the screw up in the balancing of harder difficulties. On that note, were the harder difficulties even playtested, or did you just do the generic "gimp the player and overpower enemies" approach and not bother playtesting them?

[Kurupt87]

if they lasted indefinitely then all classes would have access to an ability nearly equal to the sentinels unique class power, which isn't right. the video was shot on insanity.

[ArmeniusLOD]

Kurupt87 wrote...

if they lasted indefinitely then all classes would have access to an ability nearly equal to the sentinels unique class power, which isn't right. the video was shot on insanity.

I realize the video was shot on Insanity, I was just mentioning the fact that harder difficulties were not playtested.

On your point about Sentinels, they are the only PC that has a defensive power like this.  Every other PC needs to choose one as a bonus power.  The point is that a bonus power should be providing a useful "bonus" regardless of class uniqueness.

[Kurupt87]

my point is that the class specific abilities are just that, class secific and unique, as well as being the best powers in game. vangaurd charge, HAR, cloak, singularity, drone and tech armour are the best abilities get, and there are no bonus abilities equivalent to them. tbh, the sentinel gets done over a bit because his class ability is so similar to these bonus powers, albeit more powerful and versatile.

your question about the difficulty levels confuses me, the video is shot on the hardest setting. if by "harder" difficulties you mean veteran/hardened then you should have said easier difficulties, because they are easier than insanity. on those diffculties then these powers are very good, the game is balanced around, imo, veteran level, and the survivability these bonuses give you is considerable.

the debate/annoyance is because most regular forumites play on insanity where a bit of extra survivability would really help, but these abilities only add very little, where people want alot for a 12s cd.

[ArmeniusLOD]

Kurupt87 wrote...

my point is that the class specific abilities are just that, class secific and unique, as well as being the best powers in game. vangaurd charge, HAR, cloak, singularity, drone and tech armour are the best abilities get, and there are no bonus abilities equivalent to them. tbh, the sentinel gets done over a bit because his class ability is so similar to these bonus powers, albeit more powerful and versatile.
your question about the difficulty levels confuses me, the video is shot on the hardest setting. if by "harder" difficulties you mean veteran/hardened then you should have said easier difficulties, because they are easier than insanity. on those diffculties then these powers are very good, the game is balanced around, imo, veteran level, and the survivability these bonuses give you is considerable.
the debate/annoyance is because most regular forumites play on insanity where a bit of extra survivability would really help, but these abilities only add very little, where people want alot for a 12s cd.

That is a good point about powers, but I still don't see the need for the long durations on GSB/Barrier/Fort if they disappear after your shields are depleted.  Like I said, in that case it would be more useful if they received a larged boost in power instead of duration.

By harder difficulties, I mean Hardcore/Insanity.  I wasn't injecting the difficulty point with the shield powers, but merely pointing out my frustration with the seeming lack of testing in balance for these difficulties.  People choose harder difficulties for a challenge, not to be frustrated because the system that was balanced for Normal difficulty is completely broken for the hardest difficulties.  If they're not going to balance for them, then don't include them at all.

Modifié par ArmeniusLOD, 26 février 2010 - 01:15 .