359 réponses à ce sujet

[Bigdoser]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

They do a better job then the human council.

I must have missed that part.  What I did notice was an iron-fisted oligarchy that will make sentient races wait millenia for any representation.  I also noticed an obdurate refusal to accept anything that upset their political status quo, regardless of the evidence at hand.  When governing, sins of omission are every bit as damning as sins of commission.

The uprising at the human-dominated Council isn't a reflection of the Council's competence--it's a reflection of other races protesting Humanity's rapid rise into a position of power.

The only two observably competent people in the story's setting so far appear to be Shepard and TIM (with Shepard's competence extending to anyone standing next to him with a gun drawn).  There's really no way to compare how competent either Council is, because we really don't see much governing.  We know the alien members are dumber than a bag of hammers.  We know Udina is also blind and self-serving.  I'm tempted to conclude that every politician in this setting is a de facto waste of oxygen (or ammonia).

Why do you think some people put anderson on the council? heck he does a better job than udina if you selected him to be on the council.

[kraidy1117]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
They are, this is made clear in alot oft he news annoucments.

No threat of civil war is mentioned, just a build-up. It's to try and curb human power however there won't be a war. The perfect time for them to attack us was when we first took power. The longer they wait the stronger we get and they know it. A war against humanity would be too costly for them to bother.

Turriens are building more dreadnaughts, a war is going to happen because you decided to let over 10,000 people die including the council to destroy a Reaper, they still defeat the Reaper no matter what because of Shepard. As my fav Turien says in ME2

"YOU HUMANS ARE ALL RACIST!"

You know what happens in ME2 if you saved the council in ME1?

You get a 30 second hologram of the council. That is what the difference is.

No the diffrence is that the humans are more resepcted, the council is more stable then the Human council and it's not 30 seconds, I did not skip the whole thing.  If you listened to the new ancouments instead of rushing the game you would know saving the council was better then letting them die.

Oh yeah?  Sure could of fooled me when I won the game.  I had playthroughs with both the council dead and alive and it didn't affect my mission one way or the other.

Of course it would not change ME2, it's the middle chapterr, why do people seem to forget that? The big things will happen in ME3.

[Bigdoser]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
They are, this is made clear in alot oft he news annoucments.

No threat of civil war is mentioned, just a build-up. It's to try and curb human power however there won't be a war. The perfect time for them to attack us was when we first took power. The longer they wait the stronger we get and they know it. A war against humanity would be too costly for them to bother.

Turriens are building more dreadnaughts, a war is going to happen because you decided to let over 10,000 people die including the council to destroy a Reaper, they still defeat the Reaper no matter what because of Shepard. As my fav Turien says in ME2

"YOU HUMANS ARE ALL RACIST!"

You know what happens in ME2 if you saved the council in ME1?

You get a 30 second hologram of the council. That is what the difference is.

No the diffrence is that the humans are more resepcted, the council is more stable then the Human council and it's not 30 seconds, I did not skip the whole thing.  If you listened to the new ancouments instead of rushing the game you would know saving the council was better then letting them die.

Oh yeah?  Sure could of fooled me when I won the game.  I had playthroughs with both the council dead and alive and it didn't affect my mission one way or the other.

I have a feeling it will in me3.

[kraidy1117]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...
They are, this is made clear in alot oft he news annoucments.

No threat of civil war is mentioned, just a build-up. It's to try and curb human power however there won't be a war. The perfect time for them to attack us was when we first took power. The longer they wait the stronger we get and they know it. A war against humanity would be too costly for them to bother.

Turriens are building more dreadnaughts, a war is going to happen because you decided to let over 10,000 people die including the council to destroy a Reaper, they still defeat the Reaper no matter what because of Shepard. As my fav Turien says in ME2

"YOU HUMANS ARE ALL RACIST!"

You know what happens in ME2 if you saved the council in ME1?

You get a 30 second hologram of the council. That is what the difference is.

No the diffrence is that the humans are more resepcted, the council is more stable then the Human council and it's not 30 seconds, I did not skip the whole thing.  If you listened to the new ancouments instead of rushing the game you would know saving the council was better then letting them die.

Oh yeah?  Sure could of fooled me when I won the game.  I had playthroughs with both the council dead and alive and it didn't affect my mission one way or the other.

Of course it would not change ME2, it's the middle chapterr, why do people seem to forget that? The big things will happen in ME3.

So we will go from ME1 and 2 being linear, to ME3 being non linear?
Or when you say 'big things', are you talking about a little impact on the story?

ME3 can still be linear, but our choices affect the game.

[Bigdoser]

I think depending on choices beating the reapers in me3 will be more easier/difficult.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Again if the "cold war" between the turians and humans actually factors in during ME3, it will be a good thing. More ships (with newer tech) to fight the reapers with.

[Tlazolteotl]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...
I think depending on choices beating the reapers in me3 will be more easier/difficult.

If this becomes a reality, then that will be a good thing IMO.  I want some real ramifications from my choices in ME3.

Hell yes.
Especially if, using the collector base, you have a much easier time winning, but everyone hates your guts.

[Keldon Northwind]

Tlazolteotl wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...
I think depending on choices beating the reapers in me3 will be more easier/difficult.

If this becomes a reality, then that will be a good thing IMO.  I want some real ramifications from my choices in ME3.

Hell yes.
Especially if, using the collector base, you have a much easier time winning, but everyone hates your guts.

But you will also be taking humanity along its desired path laid down ages ago by the Reapers. Sovereign told you as much when you met him on Virmire and Legion reminds you of it when you speak to him down in the A.I. Core.
Blowing the base up means you are "outside" the Reaper's plans, taking humanity in a way the Reapers hadn't considered.

[Flamin Jesus]

Shandepared wrote...

Keldon Northwind wrote...

But you will also be taking humanity along its desired path laid down ages ago by the Reapers. Sovereign told you as much when you met him on Virmire and Legion reminds you of it when you speak to him down in the A.I. Core.
Blowing the base up means you are "outside" the Reaper's plans, taking humanity in a way the Reapers hadn't considered.

This crap will never end. All Sovereign was talking about was the mass relays and the Citadel, that's it. The entire trap was to get civilizations to stay close to the mass relays and to base their capitals on the Citadel. This made it easy for the Reapers to systematically destroy them.

It had nothing to do with other technologies at all. ANY race that discovers element zero, via' Reaper/Prothean data caches or not is going to develop mass effect fields.

The Reapers did NOT want anyone to capture the Collector base. Reverse engineering the tech in that base will help even the playing field and give us a better chance against the Reapers. If we want to go toe to toe with them then we need to understand their technology.

Yeah, and you hand it over to a xenophobic terrorist group that sure isn't going to abuse it after your glorious victory.

[scxenophobe]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Keldon Northwind wrote...

But you will also be taking humanity along its desired path laid down ages ago by the Reapers. Sovereign told you as much when you met him on Virmire and Legion reminds you of it when you speak to him down in the A.I. Core.
Blowing the base up means you are "outside" the Reaper's plans, taking humanity in a way the Reapers hadn't considered.

This crap will never end. All Sovereign was talking about was the mass relays and the Citadel, that's it. The entire trap was to get civilizations to stay close to the mass relays and to base their capitals on the Citadel. This made it easy for the Reapers to systematically destroy them.

It had nothing to do with other technologies at all. ANY race that discovers element zero, via' Reaper/Prothean data caches or not is going to develop mass effect fields.

The Reapers did NOT want anyone to capture the Collector base. Reverse engineering the tech in that base will help even the playing field and give us a better chance against the Reapers. If we want to go toe to toe with them then we need to understand their technology.

Yeah, and you hand it over to a xenophobic terrorist group that sure isn't going to abuse it after your glorious victory.

I for one would be honored to be subjugated under Emperor T.I.M.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Emperor Illusive Man? Sounds good, especially when Shepard can assassinate him and take his place.

[Stephenc13]

 Killing them was wrong, I was surprised there were no terrorist attacks or different species or parties trying to claim absolute power which in turn turned the Citadel into a warzone

[adam_grif]

Of course, there's no logical reason as to why you can't hand the station over to the alliance or the council, given that you've got the only ship in the galaxy that can make the trip.



I can't wait for the ME2 DLC that features 10 missions of you making the O4 relay run to ferry scientists back and forth.

[Asheer_Khan]

Shandepared wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Yeah, and you hand it over to a xenophobic terrorist group that sure isn't going to abuse it after your glorious victory.

They are no more xenophobic than the STG or the Spectres. As long as TIM uses it to advance humanity and to fight the Reapers I'll be happy.

If naivity could be used to power up starship then strength of yours would be in off to reach Alpha Centauri.<_<

[Zulu_DFA]

Stephenc13 wrote...

 Killing them was wrong, I was surprised there were no terrorist attacks or different species or parties trying to claim absolute power which in turn turned the Citadel into a warzone

There were: ME Galaxy. But it happened in any case.

[Teivel]

There are 10,000 crewmen on the DA. Letting them die over some petty difference you, a soldier, had with the council that serve collectively as your CIC is indefensible. Given that ignoring them leaves a large geth force in your rear i won't even say it's more tactically sound. The fleet is in position, the logical move is to step in and clear as many geth as possible before sovereign becomes visible.



At the end of the day if we're not willing to fight and die for the Asari and Turians, how can we expect them to do the same?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Shandepared wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Yeah, and you hand it over to a xenophobic terrorist group that sure isn't going to abuse it after your glorious victory.

They are no more xenophobic than the STG or the Spectres. As long as TIM uses it to advance humanity and to fight the Reapers I'll be happy.

Of course they are. The Spectres are a multi-species organization. They have no agenda other than promoting galactic stability on behalf fof the council.

The Salarian STG's agenda is similar. Neither of them promote the dominance of one species over all others.

Moreover niether of them are terrorists. Cerberus has history of destorying colonies, kidnapping, sabotage, nightmarish experiments and murder.

With that said, I did spare the base. At least on my main playthrough. My hope is The Illusive Man will focus more on the immediate threat of the reapers. I'll be interested to see if my choice will prove to be a mistake. I'm thinking probably. But I'm standing by my (possible) mistakes.

[adam_grif]

There are 10,000 crewmen on the DA. Letting them die over some petty difference you, a soldier, had with the council that serve collectively as your CIC is indefensible.

Nonsense. The council is as much your CIC as the Secretary General of the United Nations is to a marine. The differences are not petty, they are actively subverting your attempts to save hundreds of billions of sentient lives.



And this is irrelevant anyway - the DA was not participating in the fight and contributed nothing to fighting off Sovereign. Would you be singing a different tune if Sovereign succeeded because you threw away some cruisers saving an ineffectual political symbol? Commander Shepard, the character, does not have the metagaming hindsight that you do, nor does he or she know that Sovereign is going to go down no-matter what happens. It's a decision made in a split second, and throwing away resources saving the council may have been our undoing.



The decision to ignore the DA's pleas is not only defensible, it's the right choice.

[Zulu_DFA]

adam_grif wrote...

There are 10,000 crewmen on the DA. Letting them die over some petty difference you, a soldier, had with the council that serve collectively as your CIC is indefensible.

Nonsense. The council is as much your CIC as the Secretary General of the United Nations is to a marine. The differences are not petty, they are actively subverting your attempts to save hundreds of billions of sentient lives.

And this is irrelevant anyway - the DA was not participating in the fight and contributed nothing to fighting off Sovereign. Would you be singing a different tune if Sovereign succeeded because you threw away some cruisers saving an ineffectual political symbol? Commander Shepard, the character, does not have the metagaming hindsight that you do, nor does he or she know that Sovereign is going to go down no-matter what happens. It's a decision made in a split second, and throwing away resources saving the council may have been our undoing.

The decision to ignore the DA's pleas is not only defensible, it's the right choice.

THIS. Moreover, Shetard does not even know if battle can be won at all. He has no way to tell how strong are the Geth. But losing the battle to the Geth means nothing if Sovevereign gets destroyed. That's why Sovereign has to be attacked in full force.

I bet paragons would sing slightly differently if BioWare mad 2 different video sequences for Ignoting the Council and saving it, like

Save the Council: the 5th Fleet loses 50% ships to the Geth, then 50% to Sovereign, and only the Normandy remains and a couple of crippled cruisers. Charred DA and a couple of crippled turian cruisers drift on the background.

Concentrate on Sovereign: the 5th Fleet loses 25% to Sovereign, several battered Geth cruisers retreat from the DA debris through a nearby mass relay.

[Dean_the_Young]

Keldon Northwind wrote...

But you will also be taking humanity along its desired path laid down ages ago by the Reapers. Sovereign told you as much when you met him on Virmire and Legion reminds you of it when you speak to him down in the A.I. Core.
Blowing the base up means you are "outside" the Reaper's plans, taking humanity in a way the Reapers hadn't considered.

The only technological paths that aren't on the Reaper path are those that don't have anything to do with the galactic standard. You'll have to go back 200 human years (and thousands for the other races) before starting the whole goose-chase tech development projects, and you'll have to make 200 years of technological growth in 200 years. No one in the galaxy is going to go Luddite and retreat from space and Mass Relays for that.

Since the Reapers never intended or wanted anyone to take the Collector Base, seizing it puts you farther outside their plans (and power) than regressing your technology.

[Asheer_Khan]

*Sigh...* reading threads like this it's no wonder that despite fact that human civilization egsisting about 5000 years we are still unable to establish proper colony on the moon... not to mention set up serious mission on any nearby Earth planet...



Because there is still too many people on this planet who favor solving problems by using guns that logic.