359 réponses à ce sujet

[Conway044]

The scene when the commander of the DA is spouting out how badly the ship is damaged and how the council is on board, yada, yada and the other Asari turns and says they closed the channel is the best scene ever in a video game. How can you give that up? Hence the right answer is always to let the council reap what it sowed.
Anderson>Udina

Edit: Spectre Status.   A human lead council with Anderson in charge.  Anderson will restore your Spectre status, no strings attached.

Modifié par Conway044, 16 février 2010 - 01:22 .

[Conway044]

Nyaore wrote...

Giantevilhead wrote...

Concentrating on Sovereign was the right choice. You had no way of knowing if Sovereign could even be killed. Defeating Sovereign was far more important than saving the Council and the Destiny Ascension.

In the short term, concentrating on Sovereign was indeed the best choice to make. However in a long term sense saving the Council truly is the best choice if you want all the council races to be more 'united' as it causes people to view humanity in a much more positive light. Where as leaving the Council to die causes humans to be viewed in an even more suspicious light than before, and breeds discontent between the races. (Which wouldn't be the best thing to have happen if you're going to eventually unite them all against the Reapers.)
It all just depends upon how you look at it.

Honestly I'd rather have the Rachni and Krogan over the Salarians, Asari and Turians.  Doubt they'd want to work together, but what a force that would be.

I'm also a bit leery of the 3(now 4) races making all the decisions.  Shouldn't the other major races at least have non-voting representation to voice their views?  Maybe not the Hanar as their gods turned out to be the collectors.  I don't think we can trust them.

[Spazticus]

The "right" answer might be to either save them, or to hold fire and wait for an opportunity, but it can't be to say "screw them all." The paragon/netural choices both have justifiable motives, at least tactically, if not politically. The renegade option is just selfish, vindictive and short sighted, and some people seem to be a little too proud of going that route. Seriously, it's the Udina "How to Meet People, and Exploit Them!" approach. Be proud of that, if that's your thing...



The Hanar had no idea that the Protheans eventually became the Collectors. That said, the Collectors aren't even Protheans any longer, due to all the indoctrination and genetic manipulation. The Protheans, as they existed, were wiped out centuries before ME1. What remains weren't/aren't Prothean.



As for the non-Council member races, they do have ambassadors to speak for them. Even Udina was one, in ME1. He's still ambassador, if Anderson is on the Council.

[Goat_Shepard]

But with the council saved, Anderson is now a member of the council, yes? Humans and aliens are now +, no bad blood, now you can save the galaxy by uniting them all!



Seriously I was bummed playing ME2 and never seeing the council and every alien is nagging me about killing the stupid council. Anyways I'm gunna import my "save the council" Shepard and see if the council will actually speak with me.

Another random thought, once you save the Ascension, why doesn't the Ascension blast Sovereign? Or is the entrance to the citadel too small a hole for it? Thanks!

[Saint Op]

Well I killed them because I beleive In what Jack said, everyone I kill increases my odds of survival,

That & they only get in my way. I saved the rachni because in the song their queen sings I will be their savior and that is a weapon.

I killed the counsil because they serve me no purpose & after using Cerburus I told TIM to screw himself because he no longer served a purpose.

My Shep is here to save the universe by any means because without a universe he can't be a bad mo fo. Oddly I play paragon to my crew and judge anyone else by how usefull they might be in my pocket which alot of times is paragon. Both times ME1 & 2 I ended 100% paragon & about 50% renagade.

[Conway044]

Spazticus wrote...


The Hanar had no idea that the Protheans eventually became the Collectors. That said, the Collectors aren't even Protheans any longer, due to all the indoctrination and genetic manipulation. The Protheans, as they existed, were wiped out centuries before ME1. What remains weren't/aren't Prothean.

As for the non-Council member races, they do have ambassadors to speak for them. Even Udina was one, in ME1. He's still ambassador, if Anderson is on the Council.

*sigh* It was a tongue in cheek remark.  Chill, Its only a video game and the Hanar aren't real.  

The other races due have ambassadors, however they do not sit in on council session, they are not allotted time to present their peoples feelings before the council comes to a decision.  This is the minimum they should be allowed. 
The decision to save as many ships as possible to attack Sov is a vaild tactical choice.  There is no firm data on its offensive or defensive capabilities.  Honestly if Shep wasn't able to drop Sov's sheilds they would most likely needed to resort to ramming Sov in an attempt to overload it's kenetic barriers.

[Spazticus]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

But with the council saved, Anderson is now a member of the council, yes? Humans and aliens are now +, no bad blood, now you can save the galaxy by uniting them all!

Seriously I was bummed playing ME2 and never seeing the council and every alien is nagging me about killing the stupid council. Anyways I'm gunna import my "save the council" Shepard and see if the council will actually speak with me.
Another random thought, once you save the Ascension, why doesn't the Ascension blast Sovereign? Or is the entrance to the citadel too small a hole for it? Thanks!

Yes, they will speak with you, in Anderson's office.

The Destiny Ascension did use its weapons early in the fight, but they were knocked out by the time Sovereign's barriers fell.

[Pandaman102]

If you listen to the news reports in ME2 sacrificing the council causes the Asari to secede their defense responsibility to the Turians, so it might be a "wrong" choice if your plan is to have the strongest possible army ready for the Reapers:

Killing the Rachni means you won't get their fleet.
Killing Wrex means you won't get loyal Krogan allies.
Killing the Council means you won't get the Asari and Turian fleets (possibly the Salarians too).
Destroying the Salarian's genophage cure (not Saren's) means you don't get strong Krogan allies.
Killing the heretic Geths means you won't get strong Geth allies.
Destroying the Collector base means humans won't get tech upgrades.
Edit (completely forgot):  Pushing the Quarians to go to war means you won't get Quarian or Geth fleets.

It'll be interesting to see what the grand finale will be if you choose to sabotage every other race; keeping the base will probably lead humanity to replacing the Collectors while destroying it means Bad End (which Bioware has demonstrated is a perfectly valid ending in ME2).

Modifié par Pandaman102, 16 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[Goat_Shepard]

Pandaman102 wrote...

If you listen to the news reports in ME2 sacrificing the council causes the Asari to secede their defense responsibility to the Turians, so it might be a "wrong" choice if your plan is to have the strongest possible army ready for the Reapers:

Killing the Rachni means you won't get their fleet.
Killing Wrex means you won't get loyal Krogan allies.
Killing the Council means you won't get the Asari and Turian fleets (possibly the Salarians too).
Destroying the Salarian's genophage cure (not Saren's) means you don't get strong Krogan allies.
Killing the heretic Geths means you won't get strong Geth allies.
Destroying the Collector base means humans won't get tech upgrades.

It'll be interesting to see what the grand finale will be if you choose to sabotage every other race; keeping the base will probably lead humanity to replacing the Collectors while destroying it means Bad End (which Bioware has demonstrated is a perfectly valid ending in ME2).

Thank you! You've also inspired me to do all those things on ONE import

[Pandaman102]

I'll probably do the same if it turns out that really is a possibility, if only to see Udina and the Illusive Man's death scenes as they realize how screwed they are

[KenLyns]

There is no "right" choice. If you let the old council die, you replace one trio of alien "moron" politicians with another trio of human moron politicians, just like in real life. This is why I love ME2. 

I prefer the non-Spectre status. Spectres are too visible. When Saren blew up that eezo factory in Revelation, he had to cover it up and blame it on Anderson. When you and Zaeed blew up that Ashland factory, you walked away with no consequences.
 

For once I'd like to see a paragon choice backfire. i.e. show mercy to someone, only to see them come back to hurt you later. 

[Spazticus]

KenLyns wrote...

There is no "right" choice. If you let the old council die, you replace one trio of alien "moron" politicians with another trio of human moron politicians, just like in real life. This is why I love ME2. 

I prefer the non-Spectre status. Spectres are too visible. When Saren blew up that eezo factory in Revelation, he had to cover it up and blame it on Anderson. When you and Zaeed blew up that Ashland factory, you walked away with no consequences.

 I did that, as a Spectre, but I'm not sure if there are different consequences if it's done before getting that status back. On another note, being a Spectre in ME1 didn't stop anyone from being a renegade, so it doesn't hurt you in any way to "re-join."

For once I'd like to see a paragon choice backfire. i.e. show mercy to someone, only to see them come back to hurt you later.

They won't hurt you directly, but there are at least two I can think of.
1. How you dealt with Nassana Dantius back in ME1. You ended up tying up the loose end that was her sister.
2. In Samara's recruitment mission, there is that Eclipse member you can spare, and it turns out she's the murderer everyone's looking for.

[KenLyns]

They won't hurt you directly, but there are at least two I can think of.
1. How you dealt with Nassana Dantius back in ME1. You ended up tying up the loose end that was her sister.
2. In Samara's recruitment mission, there is that Eclipse member you can spare, and it turns out she's the murderer everyone's looking for.

That's the thing, it would be absolutely badass if they did come back to hurt you directly. Think Balak making a reappearance to kill/torture your love interest. "Mass Effect 3 written by Shawn Ryan."
 

Modifié par KenLyns, 16 février 2010 - 05:20 .

[Sharn01]

I have heard the argument that letting them die is the best choice tactically before and to be honest, it does not hold up to scrutiny.

You have no idea when given the decision how long it will take to get the arms open, or how long the Ascension will survive.

If the geth had destroyed the Ascension prior to you getting the arm's open, when the Alliance come's through the relay, they would have been faced with a fleet of unmolested Geth cruiser's ready to defend Sovereign from them.

If the ship's come through the relay immediately, they have the opprotunity to catch the Geth by surprise, and flank them between themselves and the Ascension and its remaining support, giving them the advantage in the fight regardless of how long it takes to get the arms open, and if successful in saving it, added firepower against Sovereign.

The correct nuetral choice would have been to have the Alliance come through the relay and assist the Ascension in a flanking maneuver, attempting to save the Ascension, but being willing to pull away from the fire fight and attack Sovereign when the opprotunity arrises.

The council does not even factor into the equation from a tactical standpoint, for me they did factor into it from a duty standpoint. When Shepard became a Spectre, she swore and oath to serve and protect the council, the fact she did not cut ties with the Alliance was out of convenience. So it was her duty, and the honorable decision to help the council. As a former member of the military, you serve under many people you may dislike, but that does not mean you do not do your duty.

Modifié par Sharn01, 16 février 2010 - 05:34 .

[Spazticus]

KenLyns wrote...
That's the thing, it would be absolutely badass if they did come back to hurt you directly. Think Balak making a reappearance to kill/torture your love interest. "Mass Effect 3 written by Shawn Ryan." [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie] 

Sure, there is definitely potential for things like that to happen, and it would allow a way for some loose ends to be tied up. For my part, I'd like to see at least a few of them, in addition to the positive nods the paragon path provides. Karma's funny that way; one doesn't always receive as good as they give. This, coming from a 90% paragon player.

Modifié par Spazticus, 16 février 2010 - 05:34 .

[Habelo]

Sharn01 wrote...

I have heard the argument that letting them die is the best choice tactically before and to be honest, it does not hold up to scrutiny.

You have no idea when given the decision how long it will take to get the arms open, or how long the Ascension will survive.

If the geth had destroyed the Ascension prior to you getting the arm's open, when the Alliance come's through the relay, they would have been faced with a fleet of unmolested Geth cruiser's ready to defend Sovereign from them.

If the ship's come through the relay immediately, they have the opprotunity to catch the Geth by surprise, and flank them between themselves and the Ascension and its remaining support, giving them the advantage in the fight regardless of how long it takes to get the arms open, and if successful in saving it, added firepower against Sovereign.

The correct nuetral choice would have been to have the Alliance come through the relay and assist the Ascension in a flanking maneuver, attempting to save the Ascension, but being willing to pull away from the fire fight and attack Sovereign when the opprotunity arrises.

The council does not even factor into the equation from a tactical standpoint, for me they did factor into it from a duty standpoint. When Shepard became a Spectre, she swore and oath to serve and protect the council, the fact she did not cut ties with the Alliance was out of convenience. So it was her duty, and the honorable decision to help the council. As a former member of the military, you serve under many people you may dislike, but that does not mean you do not do your duty.

Gotta agree with this. Hannibal, alexander, ceaser, ghengis ****ing anyone with a military "education" would laugh themselves silly to those exclaiming that ignoring a perfect flanking oppurtunity and ignoring a threat that probaly will come and attack you in the back is a good tactic. Srsly the worst position you can find yourself in in a battlefield is trapped and surronded by enemies. I thought this was common knowledge.

But about that duty part i dont know. If i were a spectre i would feel that i have a duty more towards the people instead of the politicians, the people is democracy and we all know that politics is a ruined system. The honorble thing would be to serve the galaxys people not its rulers. Otherwise you are just accepting one of the greatest hipocracys.

Edit: and the asari seems to be a philosphical and diplomatic power. Salarians espionage and intelligence while turians; military power. And if you dont believe that diplomacy can win wars and is a weak factor in a war- look at our recent 2 world wars. Germany was the best in every way but lost becuse of bad diplomacy, so yes it is a major factor.

Modifié par Habelo, 16 février 2010 - 03:11 .

[Esker02]

Habelo wrote...
Edit: and the asari seems to be a philosphical and diplomatic power. Salarians espionage and intelligence while turians; military power. And if you dont believe that diplomacy can win wars and is a weak factor in a war- look at our recent 2 world wars. Germany was the best in every way but lost becuse of bad diplomacy, so yes it is a major factor.

What is diplomacy but the ability to pick and choose enemies and friends wisely? You're telling me between the Salarians (who are the ones that actually gather the intelligence to make these decisions) and the Turians (who actually shed the blood to uphold them) accurate decisions couldn't be made on these matters? Not to mention, when you throw the humans in now, it only further devalues the Asari.

It's strange to me because there's supposed to be some big defining moment that shows your willingness to serve the Galaxy in order to put you on the Council, but the Asari's only claim to fame is finding it first, which is really nothing more than chance. Case in point, I would say: Krogan Rebellions. Galaxy in danger of being overrun by a brutal enemy - Salarians develop a weapon to save the galaxy, Turians use their military might to implement it. Asari were hard at work in the meantime doing... ????

Remove them and put the Volus on if you really want to make it by merit.

[Habelo]

As ive said, without diplomacy you get nowhere. The asari keep the council together, consider them a glue between the races. That is what diplomacy is. That and the ability to keep the terminus system for not attacking the citadel.

And as for philosphy- just cause its highly inpractical atm and retarded morons questioning if we live in a dream and other non relevant bull****. Philosphy was what made Alexander the great conquer half the world, philosphy is what made both the american and french civil wars happend.

Philosophy my friend, is a languge in which makes us go forward in evolution.

Oh and i srsly hope that they give me a chance to kill every volus i see, i srsly hate those buggers. I remember that i hated batarian before but srsly just let me kill and put a great genocide on those greedy little cowards.

Modifié par Habelo, 16 février 2010 - 06:50 .

[addiction21]

Swat a few gnats or stop the big bad ship that is about to complete a bridge that will allow a massive army of other big bad ships in that are bent on wiping out all life in the galaxy?

[Cutlass Jack]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

I always saved them merely because I thought the Ascension was more important than a few human ships.

Glad to see I was right. The Ascension has a crew of about 10,000 and you only lose 8 human ships equaling about 2,400 lives. Saving the Council for me had nothing to do with actually saving the Council. Plus, I still think it's tactically superior to send your forces in to assist while your enemy is distracted, instead of just floating there in space letting themregroup to attack you as you ignore them for Sovereign.

This. Also having the Ascension available meant more firepower to hit Sovereign with once the arms opened.

[Sassymcgee]

I'm thinking Udina is the right choice. Anderson feels like a token now, rather than a leader of the human race.



That wasn't racist!

[Asheer_Khan]

*Sighhhhhhhhh...* Apparently you all forget critical point in this debate.

Sovieregin after Saren's defeat was powerless because thanks to Vigil it was Shepard not Sovieregin who have all keys to entire Mass Relay (including Citadel) system and that's why Acturus Fleet was able to appear in the Citadel space at all.

And that's why there was absolute no risk for opening Citadel Mass Relay to let Reapers in because Relay was Shut Down and that's why Saren need conduit from Ilos in first place because he must bypass Protean relay blockade using Council Chamber device and he almost succeed but Shepard was able to lock that relay again keeping Sovieregin outgunned and without even slightest chance for any help from dark space.

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 16 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[Archereon]

Udina isn't a sith lord in disguise, he's just a typical (dumb ass) politician.



Now TIM, he's a Caesar wanabie. I honestly expect him to try and install himself as galactic Emperor.