359 réponses à ce sujet

[Multifarious Algorithm]

The Council's alleged "history" is of one species - the Krogan. And the Krogan weren't stabbed in the back - they were stabbed in the face, for being jerks. The history of the Krogan is that they took off and exterminated the Rachni, then realized they had a bigass army and were content to annex everything they wanted even if someone else was there first.

"Stabbed in the back" is entirely NOT what happened.

[GenericPlayer2]

Multifarious Algorithm wrote...

The Council's alleged "history" is of one species - the Krogan. And the Krogan weren't stabbed in the back - they were stabbed in the face, for being jerks. The history of the Krogan is that they took off and exterminated the Rachni, then realized they had a bigass army and were content to annex everything they wanted even if someone else was there first.
"Stabbed in the back" is entirely NOT what happened.

Krogan's were given space travel to fight the Rachni - they didn't 'take off and exterminate them', they were given tech for that express purpose. Humans are brought into the fold, one way or another, for their help against the Reapers. But there is still a lot of resentment at human progress and expansion. It seems likely to me that without human dominance another war could break out, and if they are not prepared they could meet the same fate as the Krogans.

[Multifarious Algorithm]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

Multifarious Algorithm wrote...

The Council's alleged "history" is of one species - the Krogan. And the Krogan weren't stabbed in the back - they were stabbed in the face, for being jerks. The history of the Krogan is that they took off and exterminated the Rachni, then realized they had a bigass army and were content to annex everything they wanted even if someone else was there first.
"Stabbed in the back" is entirely NOT what happened.

Krogan's were given space travel to fight the Rachni - they didn't 'take off and exterminate them', they were given tech for that express purpose. Humans are brought into the fold, one way or another, for their help against the Reapers. But there is still a lot of resentment at human progress and expansion. It seems likely to me that without human dominance another war could break out, and if they are not prepared they could meet the same fate as the Krogans.

They were given the tech to fight the Rachni. The intent was not to send them extinct, but well - these things happen in massive wars of annihilation. They were genophaged after they used that to proceed to wage a destructive war of aggression against the colonies of the other races, as well as (from ME2 planet-text) outright destroyed the ecosystem of valuable garden-world's they were given rights too.

They were not backstabbed. Mordin notes he'd have argued against the elevation at the time. But how else do you deal with an extremely destructive, expansionist enemy who's going to refuse diplomacy as long as they have the upper hand (and with the Krogan, likely even when they don't). The other option was bomb them into extinction. The genophage checks their population - regardless of the Krogan idea that they're going extinct, it seems like there's a lot of interest in ensuring it doesn't happen on the part of the STG.

Humanity was also not brought in to fight the Reapers. We just are - we discovered FTL and the rest of the galaxy. But I would fully expect if we started conquering the colonies of others that the Council races would launch an aggressive war against us - the major difference being we don't repopulate quickly, and do understand diplomacy so it would be our own damn fault if it happened.

Modifié par Multifarious Algorithm, 07 mars 2010 - 02:56 .

[Habelo]

As for the krogans, it was quite an insight of mordin to say that they were not ready. I mean look on how we humans, (not to be racist) but look what happends to whole continents when we in the west sell them our dangerous technology. And try to imagine if we had nukes in the medieval ages...

[GenericPlayer2]

The fact remains that the council races will go to extremes to solve their problems, every WMD, no matter how destructive, will be deployed immediately. They talk about the humans as though we are young and rash, when the fact is they are ones creating problems and commiting war crimes to cover them up. I would never want humanity to be at the mercy of their graces.

[Habelo]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

The fact remains that the council races will go to extremes to solve their problems, every WMD, no matter how destructive, will be deployed immediately. They talk about the humans as though we are young and rash, when the fact is they are ones creating problems and commiting war crimes to cover them up. I would never want humanity to be at the mercy of their graces.

Well exterminating the krogan would be extreme, the genophage shows that the council value diversity in the galaxy and wants to maintain the krogan culture. If they really didnt care then they would just have killed the krogans- thats less risky and less maintanaly...  : ))

And yes i would like humanity to be cut down if we ever started to act like ****s, trying to wipe out the hanar or the salarians... Although, i do hope that we **** the batarians up and shows em that we are the superior specie by bombing the **** of their homeworld and a gentle genocide.

[JeanLuc761]

Habelo wrote...

I wonder if bioware have made it so that the best possible thing to do is to mix your renegade with your paragon. For example:

I think so.  I find it incredibly boring to play through the game as 100% paragon or 100% renegade.  There's no variety and it isn't how I would react in those situations.  Mix it up and the game quickly becomes much more interesting.

[mosor]

My mass effect one game I generally followed paragon but I killed the council. It was a fun outcome. You get some flak from certain asari and turians but the biggest relief is you don't have to deal with that idiotic council. In a way you do meet the new council on this path. If you pick Anderson, you meet him and he is the chairman. You can also get your Spectre status back from him.



I like this outcome because the Human Alliance is more muscular, solving its own problems, sending dreadnoughts to problem areas rather than begging the council to help only to have them tell the humans to politely ****** off.

[Bigdoser]

mosor wrote...

My mass effect one game I generally followed paragon but I killed the council. It was a fun outcome. You get some flak from certain asari and turians but the biggest relief is you don't have to deal with that idiotic council. In a way you do meet the new council on this path. If you pick Anderson, you meet him and he is the chairman. You can also get your Spectre status back from him.

I like this outcome because the Human Alliance is more muscular, solving its own problems, sending dreadnoughts to problem areas rather than begging the council to help only to have them tell the humans to politely ****** off.

You do realise if the old council are dead the galaxy is in chaos right? also it looks like a civil war may be on the horizon.

[mosor]

Bigdoser wrote...

mosor wrote...

My mass effect one game I generally followed paragon but I killed the council. It was a fun outcome. You get some flak from certain asari and turians but the biggest relief is you don't have to deal with that idiotic council. In a way you do meet the new council on this path. If you pick Anderson, you meet him and he is the chairman. You can also get your Spectre status back from him.

I like this outcome because the Human Alliance is more muscular, solving its own problems, sending dreadnoughts to problem areas rather than begging the council to help only to have them tell the humans to politely ****** off.

You do realise if the old council are dead the galaxy is in chaos right? also it looks like a civil war may be on the horizon.

Galaxy is in chaos regardless. The only difference there is fewer bickering and races are arming themselves more. Considering the reapers are comming, thats probably a good thing.

Modifié par mosor, 07 mars 2010 - 07:36 .

[Gavinthelocust]

It is the right choice to save them because I know that renegade shepard in ME3 will be able to kill the turian councilor personally, just letting him be killed by the reapers would be too ironic.

[NICKjnp]

FlashedMyDrive wrote...

ColonelAutumn wrote...

I always let them die. Theyre just a bunch of idiots and its not worth to save 3 idiots and sacrifice many (human) lives for it. Actually there had been moments where I wanted to kill those douches myself lol. And I dont care what aliens on the citadel think about my decision, because its my decision and I think its right.

10,000 lives vs 2,400 human lives.


You save more than the council.

I guess it depends on if your Shepard is a space racist or not.... I saved them... because I'm not a space racist.

[OldMachine]

Im a super space racist. My main shep is going to be all about humanity. so obviously i let the council die and did it with a smile on my face. no matter what choice u make in ME1 the council always has something stupid to say about it. they were the most inept and stupid leaders anyone has seen since G.W. Bush. Even the new council is too scared to admit the reapers are a threat. Humanity has to rise up and take down the reapers. we dont need an army... just the tech from the collector base.

[epoch_]

Sanlan wrote...

Letting them dies means you lose out on the weapon merchant on the Citadel's dialogue about hunting. Which is enough to make it the wrong decision.

I would name my first born after you, if you asked!

[mosor]

Letting the council die isn't some racist decision. There was a better chance of killing sovereign by holding back. It's fine and dandy that saving the council worked out, but why take that risk when so much is on the line?

[Habelo]

After playing a new game with a renegade that killed the council, i cannot understand one thing:



is the new council all humans or still multi-racial? Where is the proof for either of those statements?

[Tlazolteotl]

Habelo wrote...

After playing a new game with a renegade that killed the council, i cannot understand one thing:

is the new council all humans or still multi-racial? Where is the proof for either of those statements?

I never paid too much attention to it, but I think it goes like:
On import you have a took the "paragon path" or "renegade path" flag.
If you took the paragon path, it's a multi-racial council. If you took the renegade path, it's an all-human council.

Yes, that's right ... some paragons let the council die.

[this isnt my name]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

On the other hand - the first time I played I did let them die, but not because I hated them - because I didn't know that Sov could be killed either way.

This, the choice is a fail s there was no bad side to saving them, you save more lives, a useful ship and keep everyone friends. Saving them should have been a big cost to humanity and had serious consequences where soverign did alot more damage.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

GenericPlayer2 wrote...

The fact remains that the council races will go to extremes to solve their problems, every WMD, no matter how destructive, will be deployed immediately. They talk about the humans as though we are young and rash, when the fact is they are ones creating problems and commiting war crimes to cover them up. I would never want humanity to be at the mercy of their graces.

Uh, theonly reason the Council unleashed the Genophage on the Krogan is because they rose up in a brutal war against the Council. When they betrayed the Citadel Races, it's hardly a surprise they "backstabbed" the Krogan. The Krogan backstabbed the Council first. The Turians received no such punishment because they didn't betray the counil. Infact they coruled on it for 12 centuries and counting.

Going by your logic, you're going along the very same lines tha Krogan did by turning on them first. All that does is increase the likelihood of reprisal against humanity. Destroying their presiding leaders won't make humanity safter. They can get new ones. Who will be angry at Shepard.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 24 avril 2010 - 02:00 .

[Masticetobbacco]

let these useless retards die



how many more lives must be lost until those idiots finally get that the reapers are coming. The physical proof is right in their eyes and they refuse to believe it. They called legion my trophy >.>

[Thundertactics]

Focus on Sovereign, IT MAKES SENSE.
You can't risk losing so much ships and firepower just to save a few people, the galaxy is at stake everyone!

Modifié par Thundertactics, 24 avril 2010 - 02:16 .

[adam_grif]

I let the council die because they're a bunch of useless morons. The new council is just as bad. You're boned either way, but I still prefer letting the council die because it's much more in character with what my Shepard would realistically do. As a gamer, I know that Sovereign will go down either way, but role-playing as Shepard, I refuse to take the risk that we might lose if we throw reinforcements away saving the Destiny Ascension.

[Chris_Really_Rocks]

My decision to let the council die had absolutely nothing to do with my opinion of them. Governmental leaders are a dime a dozen and you seen one you seen 'em all -- they are easily replaced. The fleet and manpower that would have been sacrificed to save them simply is not worth the effort. Easy to replace council vs hard to replace military fleet. No choice at all there.

[Habelo]

I found out through a news text on the citadel that the new council is human if you choose to kill em in ME1. Or atleast human-led



and for those of you that goes on about how it is tactically dumb to not focus it all on saren, i suggest you read the 2nd page of this thread. Kinda clears that part up.