278 réponses à ce sujet

[Madecologist]

Alright, as I read the forums a lot of talk comes about cheating on your ME1 LI. Even the devs use the term. But as I played through the game with my 3 Shepards, something hit me.

What if your Shepard dumps the character. Sure you don't get to actually do it. But perhaps in his or her mind they moved on and without officially resolving it already hops off to their next conquest. From that perspective, they are not cheating (or perhaps they still are depending on your moral values). Heck, I personally was victim of that in real life. Not fun, but I held no grudge. Shepard is just as human as any of us. In Shepard's defence, s/he was dead for 2 years, that kind of blurrs things just a wee bit.

Not all my Sheps are jumping on a ME2 LI. My Fem Paragon Shepard is staying loyal to Kaiden, my Renegade Shepard is staying loyal to Ashley (he came close to going off with Miranda and told everyone it was over with Ashley, but her email melted his badass heart and told Miranda they can only be friends; made the staring of the picture at the final mission so much more interesting, because he came close).

But my third Shepard, my balance Shepard (Paragon wins at the end, but his Renegade score follows closely behind) was pissed at Liara, she was his moral compass. But when he saw her on Illium, she become like him. Her choosing to not join you to continue her vendetta against the Shadow Broker was the last straw for him (he forgive Ashely for hers, he understood that, but not Liara's). Through the whole conversation he snapped at her, accused her of a few things (glad Bioware put those in). In his Heart he lost her. Not gonna reveal what ME2 femme managed to charm him. But he moved on with a clear (albiet inconsiderate to Liara) mind.

Bioware writers and designers said that cheating on our ME1 LI will have consequences, which makes me happy. Because it should. But I am worried it will a little two dimensional and be black and white (well red and blue really), mostly because there are some many possiblities to consider. I am hoping they will have it a little more complex. As in ME1 LI accuses you of cheating and you can accuse them back of abandoning you when you needed them while your ME2 LI was there for you. Better yet your ME2 LI being aware of this conflict ("Wast I a one night stand because you couldn't be with them?" scenario).

I am sure some of us outright cheated, some of us just used the ME2 LI to release stress. But some of us might have actually had our Shepard be hurt or offended by their ME1 LI and choose to move on. Everyone uses the term cheat, but it could be more of a falling out (not denying it is still a form of cheating, but it is not clean cut as Shepard being a dog). I hope Bioware considers that path when coming up with the conclusion of this scenario.

I hope I am not the only one that has such a vividly fleshed out Shepard in my mind. I have to give credit to Bioware, to have managed to create a personalised Shepard, "my Shepard" like if he was a character of a story I personally wrote. I tip my hat to you Bioware, well done. So am I the only one that has such a connection with "their Shepard/Shepards"?

P.S. I the player do feel sorry Liara, I know her story and worst, she is the only ME1 LI to loose her Shepard in my games. While Ash/Kaiden are getting a chance with theirs.

[Nyaore]

I hope that Bioware doesn't make the impending confrontation black and white as well. My Kaidan!Shepard would have stuck by her love interest until the end of time if given half the chance, but after Horizon she simply couldn't reconcile the fact that the one person in the world who was supposed to TRUST her didn't. Tali and Garrus trusted her enough to follow her back into hell, and even Liara and Wrex showed a good amount of trust in her motives despite not being able to do the same due to personal conflicts of their own. Kaidan should have known her better than to have accused her of such things, though I myself understand where he is coming from on some levels, and in her mind he was the one who ended it - not her. That half-assed email only solidified that fact in her mind.

I'll be really annoyed if Bioware doesn't give her a chance to tell Kaidan all of this and just makes her and all the other Shepards who did 'cheat' out to be nothing more than weak willed scumbags.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

I doubt anything will crop up at all. BioWare handled the LI carry-over very, very poorly.



There's absolutely no room for BioWare to turn around and accuse people "cheating" when

1) players aren't given a choice to break up with them

2) the romance isn't even brought up at all (with Liara, who doesn't even send an email...)

3) they all talk about the relationship in the past tense (except Liara, who doesn't talk about it at all)



So, to summarize, don't worry. BioWare has no room to create "cheating" drama in ME3. It wouldn't make any sense.

[Nozybidaj]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

I doubt anything will crop up at all. BioWare handled the LI carry-over very, very poorly.

There's absolutely no room for BioWare to turn around and accuse people "cheating" when
1) players aren't given a choice to break up with them
2) the romance isn't even brought up at all (with Liara, who doesn't even send an email...)
3) they all talk about the relationship in the past tense (except Liara, who doesn't talk about it at all)

So, to summarize, don't worry. BioWare has no room to create "cheating" drama in ME3. It wouldn't make any sense.

This.  BW went out of their way to make it very clear to the player that the ME1 LI's were over (at least in Liara's case).  I don't see how they could rationalize coming back in ME3 and calling it "cheating" and somehow "penalizing" players for it.

You can not cheat on someone you are not in a relationship with.

[Kusy]

Well... Liara was compleatly obessed with finding the Shadow Broaker... it was she who was not interested in rejoining so I have no guilt in leaving her for another character (especialy when I really liked that character even in the first game). While I can understand that Ashley/Kaidan feel abandoned and betrayed because Shepard works for Cerberus now, Liara's actions actualy were enough for me to leave.

[Mox Ruuga]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about cheating on Liara. There is no indication beyond the picture on Shepard's desk that anything ever happened between the two.

[Sialater]

I don't consider it cheating.



As far as I'm concerned, Alenko dumped Shepard on Horizon. One lousy halfhearted email ain't gonna mend her broken heart. She's an Earthborn Sole-Survivor and the whipping girl of the Council and the Alliance, involuntarily resurrected because the galaxy and one megalomaniac couldn't let her go. (I think she's feeling a bit like Buffy in BTVS Season 6.) Alenko couldn't trust her for five minutes and let her explain? And didn't care that for her, they had only seen each other last month?



One lousy email can't undo that pain. He's "tried to move on" for two years. It hasn't even been two years for her.



The Turian picked up the pieces.

[Sialater]

Stupid double post.

Modifié par Sialater, 15 février 2010 - 07:36 .

[screwoffreg]

Yeah, the ME 1 romances were a letdown. My female Shepard will remain loyal to Liara, but damn, I go on a suicide mission and GET NO LOVE? I am dead for two years and you can't even make out with me for more than two seconds? Good thing my Fem-Shep bought that Fornax on the Citadel...

[Nozybidaj]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about cheating on Liara. There is no indication beyond the picture on Shepard's desk that anything ever happened between the two.

The other LI's didn't get much more.  A half hearted email doesn't exactly constitute a "continuing romance".  Shep is pretty much free and clear to do as he chooses in ME2 since all his previous romances have moved on and in Liara's case don't even make mention that there ever even was a romance between them.

[Kusy]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

So, to summarize, don't worry. BioWare has no room to create "cheating" drama in ME3. It wouldn't make any sense.

Why the pessimism while they actualy told us that if you cheat on your orginal love interest there are going to be consequences?

[screwoffreg]

Hell, people who get sent to prison get more love than Shepard.  Conjugal visits and all that...

Modifié par screwoffreg, 15 février 2010 - 07:41 .

[Nozybidaj]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

So, to summarize, don't worry. BioWare has no room to create "cheating" drama in ME3. It wouldn't make any sense.

Why the pessimism while they actualy told us that if you cheat on your orginal love interest there are going to be consequences?

How is it cheating when the game makes it clear there is no longer a romance?

[Computron2000]

Ha, I replayed ME1 after finishing ME2 a few times. I ended up with ashley even though i told her i don't like fanatics and she should stop with the poem crap. I think it was because i told Liara, i liked her as a friend only.



She kept coming on to me after that. Even had to tell her NO when she approached you after you got suspended. Even now i don't know why i have her picture on the table in ME2 :\\



Maybe i should have sent her on the bomb trip but Kaidan was too whining and he wasn't going to live too long with his L2s anyway. So no probs on dumping Ashley (heck she was forced on me)

[Madecologist]

Nyaore wrote...

I hope that Bioware doesn't make the impending confrontation black and white as well. My Kaidan!Shepard would have stuck by her love interest until the end of time if given half the chance, but after Horizon she simply couldn't reconcile the fact that the one person in the world who was supposed to TRUST her didn't. Tali and Garrus trusted her enough to follow her back into hell, and even Liara and Wrex showed a good amount of trust in her motives despite not being able to do the same due to personal conflicts of their own. Kaidan should have known her better than to have accused her of such things, though I myself understand where he is coming from on some levels, and in her mind he was the one who ended it - not her. That half-assed email only solidified that fact in her mind.
I'll be really annoyed if Bioware doesn't give her a chance to tell Kaidan all of this and just makes her and all the other Shepards who did 'cheat' out to be nothing more than weak willed scumbags.

Exactly Nyaore, though we had different logics for our Shepards (odd how personalised each person's Shepard is to them). To mine Ashely and Kaiden were understandable, they understood their loyalty to the Alliance (also it is the emails that saved them, Ashely tosses you poetry and Kaiden bares himself open). My Balance Shepard who was not romanticly involved with them understood them twice as much (though still angry at the fact they did not trust him, plus no emails for this one).

Wrex made super sense, he was the Clan Chief. He could do more good in the long run where he was than joining me. But Liara was the one my Shepard (at least the Balance one that was romanticly involved with) couldn't forgive. He saw her vendetta towards the Shadow Broker as pointless and her coldness was too much for him. Her refusal to join wounded him, also the way she shakes her head and stops the embrace was a factor too. To the best I could with the game's limitation, I played my Shepard as heart broken and bitter (so much Renegade actions, even shot Verner in the foot!). His ME2 LI was there for him, heck listening to her speak of him in her audio journals, just got to him. Her loyalty and Garrus' Loyalty were literally his pillar now. Yup it was Tali that stole him (obviously). Heck Garrus would be the closet to a best friend now, I wish you had more dialogue with him after his loyalty mission.

My Shepard's leaving of Liara was a very pivotal and painful moment in his psyche (enough to vent it on Verner's foot), not just a mere "Sweet! Tali!"

Modifié par Madecologist, 15 février 2010 - 07:46 .

[Kusy]

Computron2000 wrote...

Maybe i should have sent her on the bomb trip but Kaidan was too whining and he wasn't going to live too long with his L2s anyway. So no probs on dumping Ashley (heck she was forced on me)

That's what I did. She got her ass nuked. And how come that L2 implant could affect Keidan's life lenght?

[Joekababazae]

It was REALLY tough for me to sta loyal to Liara, but I did it. Gonna go for Tali on my second playthrough....

[Joekababazae]

It was REALLY tough for me to sta loyal to Liara, but I did it. Gonna go for Tali on my second playthrough....

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Why the pessimism while they actualy told us that if you cheat on your orginal love interest there are going to be consequences?

They also told us that Ash / Kai / Liara would be important characters in ME2. They aren't.

But, as I said, it's simply a matter of how BioWare handled this. They have no right to accuse anyone of cheating when the ME1 LI doesn't even acknowledge the romance in any way (Liara) or tells you they got over you (Ash/Kai).

[Gill Kaiser]

...and some of us specifically didn't romance anyone in ME1 because we wanted to romance Tali or Garrus, don't forget us!

[Kusy]

Madecologist wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

I hope that Bioware doesn't make the impending confrontation black and white as well. My Kaidan!Shepard would have stuck by her love interest until the end of time if given half the chance, but after Horizon she simply couldn't reconcile the fact that the one person in the world who was supposed to TRUST her didn't. Tali and Garrus trusted her enough to follow her back into hell, and even Liara and Wrex showed a good amount of trust in her motives despite not being able to do the same due to personal conflicts of their own. Kaidan should have known her better than to have accused her of such things, though I myself understand where he is coming from on some levels, and in her mind he was the one who ended it - not her. That half-assed email only solidified that fact in her mind.
I'll be really annoyed if Bioware doesn't give her a chance to tell Kaidan all of this and just makes her and all the other Shepards who did 'cheat' out to be nothing more than weak willed scumbags.

Exactly Nyaore, though we had different logics for our Shepards (odd how personalised each person's Shepard is to them). To mine Ashely and Kaiden were understandable, they understood their loyalty to the Alliance (also it is the emails that saved them, Ashely tosses you poetry and Kaiden bares himself open). My Balance Shepard who was not romanticly involved with them understood them twice as much (though still angry at the fact they did not trust him, plus no emails for this one).

Wrex made super sense, he was the Clan Chief. He could do more good in the long run where he was than joining me. But Liara was the one my Shepard (at least the Balance one that was romanticly involved with) couldn't forgive. He saw her vendetta towards the Shadow Broker as pointless and her coldness was too much for him. Her refusal to join wounded him, also the way she shakes her head and stops the embrace was a factor too. To the best I could with the game's limitation, I played my Shepard as heart broken and bitter (so much Renegade actions, even shot Verner in the foot!). His ME2 LI was there for him, heck listening to her speak of him in her audio journals, just got to him. Her loyalty and Garrus' Loyalty were literally his pillar now. Yup it was Tali that stole him (obviously). Heck Garrus would be the closet to a best friend now, I wish you had more dialogue with him after his loyalty mission.

My Shepard's leaving of Liara was a very pivotal and painful moment in his psyche (enough to vent it on Verner's foot), not just a mere "Sweet! Tali!"

Well exacly that, it's shown that some people do care about Shepard and on the other hand you have Liara... I hope that next issues of Redemption will explain her actual madness.

[Computron2000]

Mr.Kusy wrote...
That's what I did. She got her ass nuked. And how come that L2 implant could affect Keidan's life lenght?

Well Doc Chakwas told me that the L2 implant guys go insane or die pretty fast. Told kaidan to upgrade to L3s but he didn't want to because the pain made his biotics have more kick... duh! Told him to die proud too

[Madecologist]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

There's absolutely no room for BioWare to turn around and accuse people "cheating" when
1) players aren't given a choice to break up with them.

Well as mentioned, the devs did mention there will be consequences for cheating, using the term cheating. So yes there is room for concern.

However, the part I quoted from you I completely agree with. That was my gripe in ME2. Especially with Liara, she is right there (at least with Kai/Ash you can tell Kelly and Joker it is over with them). I totally would have selected "It's over, we going our own separate ways Liara" dialogue option if it was available. Heck as mentioned, she did not even send a freakin email... nothing. Never mind the breaked embrace and her cold attitude afterwards. It felt like SHE dumped my Shepard.

I swear if she accuses my Shepard of cheating on her in ME3, I hope there is a Renegade interrupt to shoot her. Kidding, but yeah. My Shepard is pissed and hurt by her. Poor Verner's foot had to suffer for it.

[Nozybidaj]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

...and some of us specifically didn't romance anyone in ME1 because we wanted to romance Tali or Garrus, don't forget us!

Doesn't really matter if you romanced anyone in ME1 or not.  All Sheps end up in the same boat by the beginning of ME2.

[Gill Kaiser]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

...and some of us specifically didn't romance anyone in ME1 because we wanted to romance Tali or Garrus, don't forget us!

Doesn't really matter if you romanced anyone in ME1 or not.  All Sheps end up in the same boat by the beginning of ME2.

Well, not quite. The game does try to make you feel guilty if you choose another love interest, with the photo on the desk, and the belated conciliatory email (if you romanced Ash/Kaiden).