278 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

lyssalu wrote...

Sialater wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Uh, why shouldn't she expect that? She knows Shep, after all.

that depends entirely on how you play your shepard.  there are some people in this thread, for instance, who didn't cheat on their ME1 LIs.  

I just want to know why anyone could consider it "cheating."

because with liara, there is no discussion of ending the relationship.

There is no discussion of continuing it, in fact there is no discussion of it what so ever.  Her vengence on the Shadow Broker and her relationship with Feron is clearly more important to her now than Shepard.

You can't cheat on someone who you are not in a relationship with.

[screwoffreg]

Technically, are you in a relationship with ANYONE on the ship, romantically? Even if you sleep with Miranda/Tali/Jack, there is no big relationship discussion of what is next. The conversations revolve around sex. I think ME 3 will be the critical point where you decide who is a REAL relationship and who was a fling.



Hell, you and your LI never DO anything outside of stay on the ship and sleep together once. It is not like you stroll on Illium or watch the stars from the Port Observatory. Well, I guess if you count combat...but by that mindset Zaeed and yourself have about as much in common.

[Madecologist]

I think what the gripe here is those of us that chose to move on, to be called cheating (not just the fans, but the writers seem to use the terminology too). Shepards that remain loyal, should get their cookie for sure. But those that chose otherwise did not automatically cheat. As the game shows it, if I had the same encounter with Liara IRL (after I get over the fact there is an Asari in front of me IRL) I would consider my ass handed to me on a dumpsville plater.



According to this logic, I been cheating for the last 10 years because I never officially broke up with my ex from back then. So by ME logic I am still with her and I am cheating on her...(despite I have not seen her for 10 years). The way some fans view it, and the way I read the writers express it, Mass Effect seems to operate on some strange universe where people do not break up or drift apart without having an official break up first. Add in that we are not given the choice to have that moment, legally loopholing us into cheating if we move on.



Any application of realism ™, pretty much indicates to us there was no cheating. It seems more like the relationships have ended. You can choose to see it as not ended, and that is your choice. Shepard can be hopeful and hang on to his flame, or move on. You don't need some epic scene of "breaking up" first. Just imagine Tali admiting her feelings for you, and you respond "Sorry, we can't do this... I need to break things off with Liara first. Alas the dialogue wheel does not let me at the moment."



I will make it even simplier, it is not a question about cheating, but remaining loyal and faithful to someone you might have lost (which is a very beautiful and noble endevour). It is not cheating but cutting loose for the others.



Even better, I do not want ME3 to be like "Loyal/Cheated" but "Loyal/Cheated/It was over". Yes there should be consequences for each, but each possible outcome, not just the black and white version.

[Nozybidaj]

porky88 wrote...

It is Commander Shepard's story though and not the other characters. In the end, his actions are what should matter because you play as him. I hope they give us many options for the third game. I think they will. My guess is ME3 will give you a mix of some old squad members and some new ones. A little like two. Maybe more oldies though in the next one. Maybe you'll get to recruit one or the other. Miranda or Ashley. Can't be both if they both survived your game. Who knows?

But what motivation would Shepard have to do that?  Bioware made it quite clear that the three pervious LI's have moved on in their lives.  When Shepard comes to them for help they turn their back on him for petty reasons and either end or ignore any previous feelings and connections that were there.  Whether why they do that is poor writing on BW's part is pointless, it happened, it is what it is now.

It would be incredibly unbelievable writing at this point if at the start of ME3 Shepard's big priorities are looking for and recruiting a bunch of people that rejected and ignored him.

[Nozybidaj]

Sialater wrote...

Well, I have more than one Shep. One will stay celibate, the rest will not.

I refuse to call it "faithful."

And I disagree with Liara. Everything you listed is metagaming. You, the player, have no information in game that she did all that. As far as you know, she's over you.

This.

[kennyme2]

I also feel that using cheating as a term would over simplify the situation if Bioware chooses to do a thorough follow up in li's . For me, when I saw what Liara was like I could not believe that she was the same person who loved dig sites and would forget about everything around her when the Protheans were brought up. I translated this feeling to my Shepard so for him it was like the person he had grown to care for no longer existed.



Anyway, I also hope Bioware handles this confrontation between old and new li well, not just an email or what have you,

[screwoffreg]

I really cannot see a role for the ME 1 squaddies. Let us assume Thane, Samara, Zaeed and Kasumi all leave the squad. Ashley is a soldier, and there are plenty of people on the ship who can still fire a gun well (Garrus and Grunt for starters). Liara is a biotic, but pretty much EVERYONE on the team has biotics. I guess she can fill in for Samara. As for Kaiden, hell, there are enough tech and biotic people to go around. Basically, they are not really needed so long as you keep most of your ME 2 crew.

[Nozybidaj]

lyssalu wrote...


yeah, i meant if you romance her and do the mission she gives you.  she tells you she couldn't let you go and that she's seeking revenge against the shadow broker for what they did/tried to do to you.

She tells every Shepard that, whether you romanced her or not.  And, she said she is after the Shadow Broker for her "friend" not for you.

[kennyme2]

double post

Modifié par kennyme2, 15 février 2010 - 10:48 .

[kennyme2]

I also feel that using cheating as a term would over simplify the situation if Bioware chooses to do a thorough follow up in li's . For me, when I saw what Liara was like I could not believe that she was the same person who loved dig sites and would forget about everything around her when the Protheans were brought up. I translated this feeling to my Shepard so for him it was like the person he had grown to care for no longer existed.



Anyway, I also hope Bioware handles this confrontation between old and new li well, not just an email or what have you,

[screwoffreg]

This whole topic makes me think the romances in general were a bit...shallow. Out of all of them, Jack has the most emotional impact. Tali is my favorite, for sure, but still, you can get her to love you after three conversations and most revolve around having sex. Miranda...she's a bit of a wild girl. As for the male romances, what I have seen indicates that ironically enough they are a bit better developed, but still.



In Baldurs Gate, you basically travelled for months upon months and the romance built up on that time. There were conflicts, fights, you could even FAIL a romance pretty easily (pre-Game Faqs era) if you didn't judge the object of your affections feelings correctly. In other words, the romances were a challenge and not ensured. By the end of Throne of Bhaal, you felt like you really knew the person (virtually).



In Dragon Age, as much as you could cheat by giving a romance interest a bunch of gifts, you still had to at least entertain a lot of conversation options. Your romances would sing for you, entertain you, and hell, even Morrigan showed REAL regret when she had to break bad news to you. The voice acting and character model reactions were amazing and even though you only travelled for about a year, there was no question your character was involved in a REAL romance.

[Madecologist]

Well Tali has been pinning for you for the last 2 years. I got the vibe that girl fell for Shepard back in ME1. When she admits her crush and you're like, "I do too" she goes all crazy and jumps your bone from 2 years of repression.

[Mystik]

I don't see how you could cheat on Liara, she didn't even show any interest in continuing a relationship or being with you. To me she moved on or didn't care .... so I was happy to welcome Tali up.

[screwoffreg]

Madecologist wrote...

Well Tali has been pinning for you for the last 2 years. I got the vibe that girl fell for Shepard back in ME1. When she admits her crush and you're like, "I do too" she goes all crazy and jumps your bone from 2 years of repression.

That's true, but she still struck me as a horny schoolgirl .

Not that there is anything wrong with that, but considering Shepard has seen the deaths of untold thousands and, by the end of ME 3, perhaps millions if the Reaper war goes bad, he might need someone stable who is going to stick around.   The Quarian mindset on relationships with other species is not really revealed, as their relationships with one another seem pretty intense and based on a very controlled breeding environment.

[redloz]

well I have 3 Sheps
- a renegade Femshep who had good times with Kaidan in ME1 and failed to get Jacob into bed in ME2 (I think her answers were too renegade)

- a paragon Femshep head over heels for Liara, who felt sad and lonely after that somewhat empty reception from her lover on Illium, and thus failed in her attempts to seduce the Justicar

- and a generally paragon DudeShep, firmly celibate because he's got no time for all that sex palaver.
So absolutely nobody has any loving in my ME2 playthroughs, which is sort of hilarious considering the amount of love interests in the game.

Modifié par redloz, 15 février 2010 - 11:10 .

[Nozybidaj]

redloz wrote...

well I have 3 Sheps
- a renegade Femshep who had good times with Kaidan in ME1 and failed to get Jacob into bed in ME2 (I think her answers were too renegade)

- a paragon Femshep head over heels for Liara, who felt sad and lonely after that somewhat empty reception from her lover on Illium, and thus failed in her attempts to seduce the Justicar

- and a generally paragon DudeShep, firmly celibate because he's got no time for all that sex palaver.
So absolutely nobody has any loving in my ME2 playthroughs, which is sort of hilarious considering the amount of love interests in the game.

That's pretty impressive to fail at geting Jacob into bed.  They are frothing at the mouth over each other from the first conversation.  I eventually learned to just never talk to Jacob on a FemShep.

[screwoffreg]

Yeah, in the first conversation with my Fem Shep towards Jacob she basically is roaring to get at him even if you are not trying. I had to take a step back as that was supposed to be my LOYALTY runthrough...

[redloz]

It's funny, i decided to pay more conscious attention to Jacob on my 2nd run through (with the paragon Liara Femshep) so I could get him on the romance track then break it off (to see what I did wrong), but i again, got the "we'll get loud and spill some drinks on the citadel'' 'hug-shake' before i even knew what was happening.

Either my game copy really doesn't want to render Jacob's romance text, or Shep has to pick the "I want you to need me" top answer when it pops up or else you totally miss your chance. It's sort of wierd because with Kaidan you can be rude as hell for a while and it still lets you start up the romance. Hmmm.

Modifié par redloz, 15 février 2010 - 11:31 .

[Madecologist]

Strange indeed. I found romancing Tali, Jack, and Miranda uber easy. You can even doing Renegade style (except when the Renegade options are "go away" obviously).



Miranda is pretty much avoid middle right to romance. Haven't tried Jacob, because my Fem Shep wanted to give Kaiden a chance.

[ComTrav]

"Commander Shepard and Ashley Williams are in a relationship and it's complicated."

I think people just use the word "cheating" because it's easier to describe then "moving on."

And the fact that Shepard's communication options with your ME1 LI are so limited gives the whole thing a bit of a weird feel. Ashley/Kaidin's email gives enough ambiguity it feels like that relationship could still be going on, but you can't send an email back saying something like, "Things were obviously very tense on Horizon, I'm glad you got in touch with me, I still have feelings for you." And you can't send an email like, "I never wanted to hurt you, you're an amazing person, but you should know I've met someone."

(And yes, none of this works at all well with Liara, before someone points that out.)

Which makes me wonder how they'll work it in ME3. They might do it "ME1-style" confrontation scene, which would give the most dramatic impact (12 scenes altogether is a large, but not massive, number, but it's a set-up that only works if most of them are on the Normandy anyway.) You might have the option to approach them in private and handle it that way.

I think no one really wants another talk/talk/talk/sexytime before endgame set-up, though (my poll seems to support this). DAO really raised the bar for relationship portrayal in these games. Plus, it's the final act of the trilogy, where even a science fiction action hero like Shepard needs to show his true emotion.

Modifié par ComTrav, 15 février 2010 - 11:44 .

[MICHELLE7]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

So, to summarize, don't worry. BioWare has no room to create "cheating" drama in ME3. It wouldn't make any sense.

Why the pessimism while they actualy told us that if you cheat on your orginal love interest there are going to be consequences?

How is it cheating when the game makes it clear there is no longer a romance?

Actually the fact that you have your LI's picture in your quarters lets you know that the romance is not over.  If you don't have a picture then it won't be considered cheating. No matter how you feel about how Kaidan/Ash and Liara treat you it's simply the way the game was set up. If you don't want the consequences in ME3(whatever they may be) play with a single Shepard...problem solved.

[redloz]

I like the idea of the renegade Miranda romance, it sounds just right, especially since she is (to begin with, atleast) very loyal to Cerberus, so there has to be some untrusting friction between MaleShep and Miranda dispite any mutual attraction. But it seems to me the Jacob romance doesn't quite work the same way. Although I suppose has doesn't really trust Cerberus. But still.



I might try out the Jack/MaleShep paragon romance, because it seems very sweet. It might actually be my favourite romance of the game, from what i've seen. Too bad my DudeShep has such a stick up his a**.

[FataliTensei]

I kinda felt betrayed by my ME1 LI when we met again

that's why my shep romaced Tali in ME2, she got past her own and her entire people's hatred for cerberus to help Shepard out, i think that says alot

[porky88]

Nozybidaj wrote...

But what motivation would Shepard have to do that?  Bioware made it quite clear that the three pervious LI's have moved on in their lives.  When Shepard comes to them for help they turn their back on him for petty reasons and either end or ignore any previous feelings and connections that were there.  Whether why they do that is poor writing on BW's part is pointless, it happened, it is what it is now.

It would be incredibly unbelievable writing at this point if at the start of ME3 Shepard's big priorities are looking for and recruiting a bunch of people that rejected and ignored him.

It sounds like you'll be most loyal to those who decided to go on the suicide mission.

The email Ashley or Kaiden send out tends to signal that there is still "something" there for Shep if he wants it. The picture heavily implies something as well. It's up to you as a player though. Your the player. If you dont want it, then you don't have to go for it. Some rather stay loyal. The whole point of the game is for you to make the decision and pay the price whether that's good or bad.

IMO, each supporting character will likely play a role in the next game. If you don't want to recruit Wrex, Ashley, or maybe Kaiden then I hope you have that option. However, for us that do, I hope we have that option as well. I would love to have Wrex in my party in ME3. The sameway I enjoyed having Garrus back. The idea that someone could be in my party in ME3 that died in someone else's ME1 is really cool in my view. It's worth noting that non party members may end up playing a big role in ME3 anyways.

I personally feel like you're going to have to not only recruit characters but organizations, species, and basically the whole galaxy. You're taking on the most dangerous "being" or "thing" to ever exist to our knowledge. My Shep isn't going to let his hurt feelings get in the way of saving the galaxy. Not on my "main" playthrough.

Modifié par porky88, 16 février 2010 - 12:04 .

[lyssalu]

Nozybidaj wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

Sialater wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Uh, why shouldn't she expect that? She knows Shep, after all.

that depends entirely on how you play your shepard.  there are some people in this thread, for instance, who didn't cheat on their ME1 LIs.  

I just want to know why anyone could consider it "cheating."

because with liara, there is no discussion of ending the relationship.

There is no discussion of continuing it, in fact there is no discussion of it what so ever.  Her vengence on the Shadow Broker and her relationship with Feron is clearly more important to her now than Shepard.

You can't cheat on someone who you are not in a relationship with.

lmao i swear

feron plays a small part in why liara is doing what she is; she offers that to you at first, then explains the real reason after you've done her mission.  it's because the shadow broker tried to give away shepard's body.  QUIT TALKIN ABOUT FERON AND USING HIM AS AN EXCUSE TO CHEAT, cuz it's not working.

it's like, oh this chick i slept with is kissing me but i don't think i'm continuing my relationship with her because she wasn't like, oh hay we are dating, so i'm gonna go screw this chick over here

PLEASE