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[Madecologist]

A little off topic, but by the Reapers this is my Thread, I am allowed one strange tangent. I keep getting this mental image of Tali and Shepard going at it in bed. The room is dark when suddenly a bright glowing light illuminates the bed. Then Legion screams, "Shepard Commander, Creator Tali'Zorah is interfacing with you! Urging caution."

On topic, @Aedan Cousland:
The term came up first during an online interview with the Lead Director. He refers to not staying true to your ME1 LI and going for a ME2 LI as cheating. The word crops up a few more times in other interviews with the writers. The question he was asked was about the involvement of the ME1 LI and how it effects the oppurtunity of romancing a ME2 LI.

Edit - Nozybidaj is correct on the name. Casey Hudson.

Modifié par Madecologist, 16 février 2010 - 02:39 .

[Newtype Taichou]

Lol everyone is talking about not having a relationship with Liara because nothing happened i.e not receiving an email or something. Was I the only who kissed her as soon as I entered her office on Ilium? Or does the kiss not mean anything in terms of a relationship or love?


In any case, I think the more cold hearted Liara is cool. It is a little off-putting that she is obsessed with killing the shadow broker. But I still refused to cheat on her, especially after that kiss. Which I considered to be a confirmation of their relationship. 

Modifié par Newtype Taichou, 16 février 2010 - 02:43 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

@ Nozybidaj & Madecologist,

Thanks!

Odd though that the word cheating would be used, since in game your ME1 LIs act like the romance is over. If in ME3 they reappear wanting to give Shepard the John Wayne Bobbitt treatment for his alleged philandering ways, Chris Rock better appear in a hologram and shout, "I told you that b---h was crazy!"

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 16 février 2010 - 02:53 .

[Nozybidaj]

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Lol everyone is talking about not having a relationship with Liara because nothing happened i.e not receiving an email or something. Was I the only who kissed her as soon as I entered her office on Ilium? Or does the kiss not mean anything in terms of a relationship or love?

You mean the one she pulls away from then shakes her head in regret over?

[Aedan_Cousland]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Lol everyone is talking about not having a relationship with Liara because nothing happened i.e not receiving an email or something. Was I the only who kissed her as soon as I entered her office on Ilium? Or does the kiss not mean anything in terms of a relationship or love?

You mean the one she pulls away from then shakes her head in regret over?

Exactly.

On what planet is it a good sign when a woman kisses you briefly, and then clearly full of regret, shakes her head no? 

Liara might still have some feelings for Shepard but as of ME2 she didn't appear willing to pick up where things left off.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 16 février 2010 - 02:59 .

[Newtype Taichou]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Lol everyone is talking about not having a relationship with Liara because nothing happened i.e not receiving an email or something. Was I the only who kissed her as soon as I entered her office on Ilium? Or does the kiss not mean anything in terms of a relationship or love?

You mean the one she pulls away from then shakes her head in regret over?

She pulled away because she can't indulge and get swept away in love because she has her own mission to complete.

Understandable to not consider that a relationship, as Liara doesn't seem that devoted. But if that were real life, their would be negative ramifications if one were to sleep with someone else because their relationship was "complicated". Which is why I think having sex with another person in the game could be considered cheating.

Also, remember she said that she was probably being recorded? This is probably another reason she pulled away, or acted cold.

Modifié par Newtype Taichou, 16 février 2010 - 03:18 .

[Nozybidaj]

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Lol everyone is talking about not having a relationship with Liara because nothing happened i.e not receiving an email or something. Was I the only who kissed her as soon as I entered her office on Ilium? Or does the kiss not mean anything in terms of a relationship or love?

You mean the one she pulls away from then shakes her head in regret over?

She pulled away because she can't indulge and get swept away in love because she has her own mission to complete.

Understandable to not consider that a relationship, as Liara doesn't seem that devoted. But if that were real life, their would be negative ramifications if one were to sleep with someone else because their relationship was "complicated". Which is why I think having sex with another person in the game could be considered cheating. 

I would think that if we want to attach real motivations to the characters (which a good writer should) it would clearly have made sense to have both Liara and Shepard, at least, oh I dunno, mention the relationship.  The sheer fact that neither of them so much as utter a word about it is a pretty clear sign there is no relationship.  If the man you were in love with, the man you watched die, the man who you went though such a traumatic experience to save, were once again standing right in front of you, wouldn't it make sense to at least mention it?  Wouldn't it make sense that Shepard, who had just recently came back from the dead and was finally reunited with the woman he loves to at least probe for a deeper explanation, to try and say something or get some sort of answer or confirmation about how the two still feel about each other?

The fact that none of it happens is a very clear indication from the writers that any previous romance is considered over at that point.  Liara has new priorities now, new relationships that mean more to her than seeing this man she risked everything for standing in front of her again.  Shepard doesn't seem to care about any of it one way or the other.

How much clearer do the writers need to make it?

[Madecologist]

I think that is a bad kiss even amongst Krogans. I admit the first time I played I missed how bad that kiss was. But I still found the way she acted was off putting. Then on my second playthrough of the same Shepard, I watched carefully and it seemed pretty bad. I know that kiss, and when I got a kiss like that IRL it never ended well.

I think the term cheating probably riles such strong emotions in people because it implies the ME2 LI was a fling, a mistress, or a stand in for the ME1 LI. Cheating implies you are 'still with the other person', legally or emotionally. Shepards that chose to move on, chose to move on. As in they want to continue with the ME2 LI and things ended with the ME1 character. A resolution like that would probably allieviate a lot of fears. Oh yes, even with a move on there is a fallout, but one does not use the term cheat to express that.

I accept a dishonest breakup (as in Shepard did not make it clear he did move on), but considering he was dead for two years, that makes even that a complicated situation. I even understand some Shepards were cheating (within their own perception and proper defination of the word). But that is not so clean cut for all Shepards.

Not like they said "people who chose to leave their first LI to pursue a new one will have to deal with the consequences of such actions." That would be okay and expected. But expliciatly, cheat. Cheating is not one of those gentle words you swap interchangebly with other words. So either Bioware had an odd perception how they portrayed their own romance in this game, or fell victim to whipping out the emotional charged word (not considering what said word will imply).

We don't know what is in ME3. We don't have a complete picture. We base our decisions with what we see and have. To many of us, the ME1 LI died emotionally... we moved on. We can debate the morality of that, but it doesn't mean it is cheating. Also if your Shepard remained loyal. Then they remained loyal, to them the relationship still mattered. It is your Shepard. Not everyone plays your Shepard.

Modifié par Madecologist, 16 février 2010 - 04:35 .

[skcih-deraj]

Do you think Ash if she finds out I cheated on her with tali will be mad.

It's not like I cheated on her with a stranger besides when I got back to the normandy after the mission I broke it off with tali seeing as our little incounter got her sick and instead of runing the risk of her dying from an infection I choose to break up with her. (Yes I know no matter how I try to spin it it still sounds bad)

[Newtype Taichou]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Lol everyone is talking about not having a relationship with Liara because nothing happened i.e not receiving an email or something. Was I the only who kissed her as soon as I entered her office on Ilium? Or does the kiss not mean anything in terms of a relationship or love?

You mean the one she pulls away from then shakes her head in regret over?

She pulled away because she can't indulge and get swept away in love because she has her own mission to complete.

Understandable to not consider that a relationship, as Liara doesn't seem that devoted. But if that were real life, their would be negative ramifications if one were to sleep with someone else because their relationship was "complicated". Which is why I think having sex with another person in the game could be considered cheating. 

I would think that if we want to attach real motivations to the characters (which a good writer should) it would clearly have made sense to have both Liara and Shepard, at least, oh I dunno, mention the relationship.  The sheer fact that neither of them so much as utter a word about it is a pretty clear sign there is no relationship.  If the man you were in love with, the man you watched die, the man who you went though such a traumatic experience to save, were once again standing right in front of you, wouldn't it make sense to at least mention it?  Wouldn't it make sense that Shepard, who had just recently came back from the dead and was finally reunited with the woman he loves to at least probe for a deeper explanation, to try and say something or get some sort of answer or confirmation about how the two still feel about each other?

The fact that none of it happens is a very clear indication from the writers that any previous romance is considered over at that point.  Liara has new priorities now, new relationships that mean more to her than seeing this man she risked everything for standing in front of her again.  Shepard doesn't seem to care about any of it one way or the other.

How much clearer do the writers need to make it?

I agree I was I think there should have been some mention of their relationship. But again she said she was being recorded so... The writers made no indication about the relationship being over, because Liara is a Love Interest. Also, if you don't engage in any other relationships on the Normandy, Shepard will smile at a picture he has of your LI from ME1. How does that mean Shepard doesn't care either way? I think you're forgetting that not all the characters are the same.... If it was indicated that the relationship is over, then why would it be considered cheating in the third?

Modifié par Newtype Taichou, 16 février 2010 - 03:29 .

[Nozybidaj]

Newtype Taichou wrote...

I agree I was I think there should have been some mention of their relationship. But again she said she was being recorded so...

So while being recorded she can openly contact people who owe her money and threaten to flay them alive and conduct her business openly, she can discuss her desires to hunt down and kill the SB and how she is closing in on him, she can discuss her plans to track down the observer, how she is going to do it, and who she is sending to do it.  All things that if the SB actually is recording her he could easily use to undermine her and any plan she has in motion, but oh no, god forbid if he hears she still loves Shepard, because being the largest and most powerful information broker in the galaxy that is something even he wouldn't already know about.

[Newtype Taichou]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

I agree I was I think there should have been some mention of their relationship. But again she said she was being recorded so...

So while being recorded she can openly contact people who owe her money and threaten to flay them alive and conduct her business openly, she can discuss her desires to hunt down and kill the SB and how she is closing in on him, she can discuss her plans to track down the observer, how she is going to do it, and who she is sending to do it.  All things that if the SB actually is recording her he could easily use to undermine her and any plan she has in motion, but oh no, god forbid if he hears she still loves Shepard, because being the largest and most powerful information broker in the galaxy that is something even he wouldn't already know about.

Well Shepard is a valuable commodity, knowing where he is could bring anyone some serious cash.  She may not want people to use her to get to Shepard? Regardless, there was no "clear indication" of the relationship being done. There was only a clear indication that the relationship is complicated. You also said that if there was one, a good writer would have made them mention it. But if there wasn't one, would I good writer not also make them mention breaking up? Double standards anyone?

Modifié par Newtype Taichou, 16 février 2010 - 03:51 .

[Newtype Taichou]

Madecologist wrote...

I think that is a bad kiss even amongst Krogans. I admit the first time I played I missed how bad that kiss was. But I still found the way she acted was off putting. Then on my second playthrough of the same Shepard, I watched carefully and it seemed pretty bad. I know that kiss, and when I got a kiss like that IRL it never ended well.

I think the term cheating probably riles such strong emotions in people because it implies the ME2 LI was a fling, a mistress, or a stand in for the ME1 LI. Cheating implies you are 'still with the other person', legally or emotionally. Shepards that chose to move on, chose to move on. As in they want to continue with the ME2 LI and things ended with the ME1 character. A resolution like that would probably allieviate a lot of fears. Oh yes, even with a move on there is a fallout, but one does not use the term cheat to express that.

I accept a dishonest breakup (as in Shepard did not make it clear he did move on), but considering he was dead for two years, that makes even that a complicated situation. I even understand some Shepards were cheating (within their own perception and proper defination of the word). But that is not so clean cut for all Shepards.
Not like they said "people who chose to leave their first LI to pursue a new one will have to deal with the consequences of such actions." That would be okay and expected. But expliciatly, cheat. Cheating is not one of those gentle words you swap interchangebly with other words. So either Bioware had an odd perception how they portrayed their own romance in this game, or fell victim to whipping out the emotional charged word (not considering what said word will imply).

We don't know what is in ME3. We don't have a complete picture. We base our decisions with what we see and have. To many of us, the ME1 LI died emotionally... we moved on. We can debate the morality of that, but it doesn't mean it is clean cut cheating. Also if your Shepard remained loyal. Then they remained loyal, to them the relationship still mattered. It is your Shepard. Not everyone plays your Shepard.

Exactly, thank you. You have the choice to remain loyal, which couldn't have been done if there wasn't some sort of relationship there, however broken it was.

[Newtype Taichou]

Littledoom wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

I agree I was I think there should have been some mention of their relationship. But again she said she was being recorded so...

So while being recorded she can openly contact people who owe her money and threaten to flay them alive and conduct her business openly, she can discuss her desires to hunt down and kill the SB and how she is closing in on him, she can discuss her plans to track down the observer, how she is going to do it, and who she is sending to do it.  All things that if the SB actually is recording her he could easily use to undermine her and any plan she has in motion, but oh no, god forbid if he hears she still loves Shepard, because being the largest and most powerful information broker in the galaxy that is something even he wouldn't already know about.

Well Shepard is a valuable commodity, knowing where he is could bring anyone some serious cash.  She may not want people to use her to get to Shepard? Regardless, there was no "clear indication" of the relationship being done. There was only a clear indication that the relationship is complicated.

Are you one of the devs or writers in disguise or something?

Nope, merely stating my opinion. Because if the relationship ended, then we wouldn't have the option to stay loyal.

Modifié par Newtype Taichou, 16 février 2010 - 03:48 .

[Nozybidaj]

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

I agree I was I think there should have been some mention of their relationship. But again she said she was being recorded so...

So while being recorded she can openly contact people who owe her money and threaten to flay them alive and conduct her business openly, she can discuss her desires to hunt down and kill the SB and how she is closing in on him, she can discuss her plans to track down the observer, how she is going to do it, and who she is sending to do it.  All things that if the SB actually is recording her he could easily use to undermine her and any plan she has in motion, but oh no, god forbid if he hears she still loves Shepard, because being the largest and most powerful information broker in the galaxy that is something even he wouldn't already know about.

Well Shepard is a valuable commodity, knowing where he is could bring anyone some serious cash.  She may not want people to use her to get to Shepard? Regardless, there was no "clear indication" of the relationship being done. There was only a clear indication that the relationship is complicated.

There isn't a clear indication that a romance ever existed.  And if the SB really wanted to get Shepard, why not go after him while you are running all of Liara's errands?  If he is listening he knows exactly where you are and where you are going.

[Nozybidaj]

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Nope, merely stating my opinion. Because if the relationship ended, then we wouldn't have the option to stay loyal.

You didn't stay loyal.  You stayed celibate.  Liara obviously didn't care what you do with your personal life.  She has to go save Feron.

[Kileyan]

I dumped "poor Liara" in a heartbeat. Even after doing her quests and hearing her story, she was a person so changed by 2 years I wouldn't have recognized her, even if my Shep and been awake during those 2 years.



Honestly Bioware failed, nothing in the story made sense, she just became a totally different npc really, with the most tenuous ties to being the old character. If she comes back all romantics and shocked that you moved on in ME3, it will just be proof that Asari are as crazy as any female of any race.

[Nozybidaj]

Kileyan wrote...

I dumped "poor Liara" in a heartbeat. Even after doing her quests and hearing her story, she was a person so changed by 2 years I wouldn't have recognized her, even if my Shep and been awake during those 2 years.

Honestly Bioware failed, nothing in the story made sense, she just became a totally different npc really, with the most tenuous ties to being the old character. If she comes back all romantics and shocked that you moved on in ME3, it will just be proof that Asari are as crazy as any female of any race.

Or that the writers didn't really have any of this planned out ahead of time.  Six of one, half dozen of the other.

[Newtype Taichou]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Nope, merely stating my opinion. Because if the relationship ended, then we wouldn't have the option to stay loyal.

You didn't stay loyal.  You stayed celibate.  Liara obviously didn't care what you do with your personal life.  She has to go save Feron.

She doesn't care what you do with your personal life? Although she seemed apathetic toward your goals of galactic heroism. That's a claim we can't make until the third game. We don't know how she will react if you sleep with someone else. In this case staying celibate was being loyal because if not it could be considered cheating.

[Newtype Taichou]

Littledoom wrote...

Newtype Taichou wrote...

Littledoom wrote...

Are you one of the devs or writers in disguise or something?

Nope, merely stating my opinion. Because if the relationship ended, then we wouldn't have the option to stay loyal.

You could have fooled me...

That's because you're a fool?

[Mondo47]

Well, playing through with my Femme-Shep, I remained faithful to Liara (because no one else really seemed interested in Femme-Shep... must be the black lipstick). Be interesting to see how it plays out.

My Male-Shep though... I really hope that ME1 and ME2 love interests can meet one another, particularly if there is a chance for reconciliation. After the 'welcome' he got on Horizon, he went and sought sollace with someone who doesn't throw fits like Ash did (or send 'Dear John' emails)... Jack.

I so want to see that 'conversation'