55 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaduos]

I'm *really* getting tired of having to reload games because I get trounced by nearly every group of enemies I come across. I'm playing on normal difficulty, I have an understanding of the tactics system, and I'm not new to this genre in the slightest. I loved Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape Torment, Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic - I've played these games to death and loved every minute of it, and I like the way this game plays, the things you do and how the story is progressing, but I cannot for the life of me fathom why this game is as hard as it is.

I play a Warrior, and I drag Alistair, Morrigan and Liliana around with me. That's two fighters, a mage and a rogue - not a bad setup by any means. Morrigan has mostly damage spells, but I picked up the heal just because (I go through potents like crazy), Liliana is equipped with a bow, but fairly poor by damage standards - I only keep her to unlock chests, though her song helps, so she isn't a complete waste, and Alistair is the sorriest tank I've ever seen, but survives a lot longer than Sten does. My characters are fairly well equipped, or at least what I've been able to purchase or find up until this point. I'm a completist and I do every single quest I find... or I at least try to, until I run into a group so friggan tough it boggles my mind that I was allowed to do this by just following the main quest line.

I picked up a quest in Redcliffe to save some refugee's from an attacking horde of Darkspawn, and "horde" would be the correct term for this fight. There are so damn many of them, plus an elite, that the moment I get in there and try to do anything, nearly all the refugee's get trounced, leaving my group the sole targets of the encounter and I'm left to deal with 10+ Darkspawn ganging up on each character individually and kicking my ass. To make matters worse, the elite is an Emissary, and I've grown to hate even the regular one's because of a single spell that renders heals completely useless on the character affected with it - which basically means that character is out of the fight almost instantly.

The tactics system doesn't seem to help the situation much either. Morrigan will chain cast and waste her spells as often as she can on enemies that don't deserve such a beating, or she won't provide the help I need
if I set them up loosely, so I just turned them off and manually use her most of the time. Liliana, instead of
keeping her distance, runs as close as she can to the fight and immediatly draws aggro, despite the fact that she has an amulet that reduces her hostility - she can't take hits either, and every one she does is a wasted heal. Alistair likes to randomly activate abilities he doesn't need, or are contrary to what is set in the tactics menu (Shield Defense on Boss+ encounter, and yet it's almost always activated, and therefore he sucks at doing damage). He also can't tank worth a crap, which leaves my main character as the sole survivor of many encounters, as she is the only one that can deal good damage and take a decent hit or two. Still, she can't survive the beating of half a dozen enemies alone. Ah, and healing items. I like how my characters are told to use an item at <50% health, and yet never actually use them in battle - and then when the battle is over, they decide to use it, thus wasting it since characters will eventually regen.

I'm not looking forward to saving/reloading before/after every fight in the game - not at this stage. My characters aren't heroes, they're a sad, sorry bunch that has difficulty doing even menial tasks. So, what is the secret here? I don't want to turn it on easy (that would be an insult to my gaming superiority), and even thinking about a harder difficulty makes me wonder how anyone can stand playing the game in such a manner. Is there a sweet spot for tactics that anyone can divulge that makes characters not worthless? How in the hell do you deal with a massive group of enemies with literally no place to go to level up except for the random quest here and there (which just happens to lead to a nearly undefeatable encounter 90% of the time). This is extremely irritating.

Modifié par Kaduos, 07 novembre 2009 - 02:16 .

[Katteas]

"I play a Warrior, and I drag Alistair, Morrigan and Liliana around with me. That's two fighters, a mage and a rogue - not a bad setup by any means."

I'm not reading your wall of text past this. You have no healer? 

Best set up imo is Tank, Rogue, Mage to CC the crap out of things, Healer/CC'er.  Game is a faceroll on normal

Modifié par Katteas, 07 novembre 2009 - 02:19 .

[finallyfast]

Wow Kad, don't know what to say really. Maybe try to thin the mobs first or try other crowd-control techniques. For the larger groups, I set everyone on hold and engage with my mage at range. Pretty easy to pull one or two in DAO. Soon as they close I sends me pimps in. Headlong into a big fight is asking for it, early anyways.

[Kaduos]

Katteas wrote...

I'm not reading your wall of text past this.

Then get out and I'll wait for someone who does.

[GlobularFoody]

I think Bioware overestimated the usefulness of being able to pause the game. I have to fight every battle at least twice it seems because of the difficulty. I use the same party as you and normal difficulty as well and the only "strategy" I've found that ever works is to pull the enemies one at a time with a bow. It's really lame and it feels like I'm exploiting the AI but NOTHING I can do helps 99% of the time.

For instance, I was doing the quests in Lothering. Every group of bandits is 8 members strong. My guys just can't withstand all the damage they do and I couldn't do anything but die because for some reason unless you make the main character a Mage you have no healers.

Modifié par GlobularFoody, 07 novembre 2009 - 02:35 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

Seriously. What the hell. People, stop goddamn sucking and whining. If the game is too hard for you, turn down the difficulty. And if you're still failing at easy, you should contemplate suicide.

[Kaduos]

finallyfast wrote...

Wow Kad, don't know what to say really. Maybe try to thin the mobs first or try other crowd-control techniques. For the larger groups, I set everyone on hold and engage with my mage at range. Pretty easy to pull one or two in DAO. Soon as they close I sends me pimps in. Headlong into a big fight is asking for it, early anyways.

I happen to like Morrigan's Mind Blast spell, but it doesn't last long enough and she will always draw aggro from one or two of the enemies she stuns. I just picked up the Ice Cone attack, which is nice for the damage and occasional freeze, but even with that, it's not enough to save the group against overwhelming odds.

I've tried the pulling one or two at a time tactic, but it never seemed to work for me, though it may have just been the situation I was in. Before the quest I was talking about in the post, I did another one to just kill some darkspawn. There weren't that many and they weren't on aggro until I passed a certain point, but as soon as I did, the group would charge and another group in back would join them even though they were well out of range. I would try and split the groups, but they always came together.

Pulling one or two at a time seems rather ridiculuous to me, anyways. Sure, it may be effective (when it actually works), but we're talking about an immersion break here just to survive an encounter I should be able to do normally with the amount of money and gear I've stored up.

[uv23]

Deja vu. I could have written your exact post. Same party, same problems. I think I'm going to switch to easy.

[The Blue bird]

Hey Katteas, howsabout you stop being so goddamn snarky to people who legitimtely want help.



Sorry Kaduos I can't help you but try a lower difficulty?

[finallyfast]

You can also use tactics and set everyone to drink a health pot when they get below say 25% health. Put it right up top. Just buy a bunch of flasks and use herbalism. Just a thought.

[elijah_kaine]

Kaduos wrote...
 So, what is the secret here? I don't want to turn it on easy (that would be an insult to my gaming superiority), and even thinking about a harder difficulty makes me wonder how anyone can stand playing the game in such a manner. Is there a sweet spot for tactics that anyone can divulge that makes characters not worthless? How in the hell do you deal with a massive group of enemies with literally no place to go to level up except for the random quest here and there (which just happens to lead to a nearly undefeatable encounter 90% of the time). This is extremely irritating.

I find it a bit strange that you need gameplay hints and ask for them in the same breath as going on about your gaming superiority. (I think it's a joke, but then agian, you never know on the internets.)

Here's the deal, either play on easy mode or get patient and think about stuff. I run with the same party as you and I got through redcliff castle fine. One thing that you might be having problems with is the battle in the courtyard, that battle isn't meant to be faught just with your party, you have to run over and open the gate.

Besides that you have to mirco alot, try to take out a few of the minons (white names) and then focus on taking out the yellow names. Use lyrium postions on Morrigan and have her span the yellow name with hexes and lightning/winter attacks as well as using drainlife. Use mind wipe on occasion.

By default the the archer is set to attack whoever your controlled character is attacking, you can change that in the tactics menu. Mirco losts, change up tactics, don't fight in closed up spaces when you're fighting a lot of eniemes.

[Kaduos]

As I said in my post, I picked up a heal for Morrigan. She can toss it around when needed, but it isn't nearly as effective as a lesser potent would be - it doesn't heal that much health to really be worth the mana that she could be spending doing something else that would be far more useful - like stunning or freezing enemies.



I haven't got to that point yet, but it appears Wynne is the only mage other than Morrigan, so it seems either of them could be a productive healer if given the time. If the only way to play this game and succeed is to make a Mage, that is a massive design flaw - I don't want to play a Mage and I shouldn't be forced to when there are 5 other origins I could choose from to enjoy the game.

[saphera55]

Deja Vu for me as well. I switched to easy, that quest is a sob.

[Varenus Luckmann]

The Blue bird wrote...

Hey Katteas, howsabout you stop being so goddamn snarky to people who legitimtely want help.

Sorry Kaduos I can't help you but try a lower difficulty?

Hey, Bluebird, howsabout you stop being so goddamn suck to people who legitimtely suck.

Sorry Kaduos I can't help you but try to stop sucking?

[Kaduos]

elijah_kaine wrote...

Kaduos wrote...
 So, what is the secret here? I don't want to turn it on easy (that would be an insult to my gaming superiority), and even thinking about a harder difficulty makes me wonder how anyone can stand playing the game in such a manner. Is there a sweet spot for tactics that anyone can divulge that makes characters not worthless? How in the hell do you deal with a massive group of enemies with literally no place to go to level up except for the random quest here and there (which just happens to lead to a nearly undefeatable encounter 90% of the time). This is extremely irritating.

I find it a bit strange that you need gameplay hints and ask for them in the same breath as going on about your gaming superiority. (I think it's a joke, but then agian, you never know on the internets.)

Here's the deal, either play on easy mode or get patient and think about stuff. I run with the same party as you and I got through redcliff castle fine. One thing that you might be having problems with is the battle in the courtyard, that battle isn't meant to be faught just with your party, you have to run over and open the gate.

Besides that you have to mirco alot, try to take out a few of the minons (white names) and then focus on taking out the yellow names. Use lyrium postions on Morrigan and have her span the yellow name with hexes and lightning/winter attacks as well as using drainlife. Use mind wipe on occasion.

By default the the archer is set to attack whoever your controlled character is attacking, you can change that in the tactics menu. Mirco losts, change up tactics, don't fight in closed up spaces when you're fighting a lot of eniemes.

Yes, truly - the internet is a wonderful place. I can go anywhere and experience condescending remarks from people who think they know better. I'm also not in Redcliffe castle.

[Serenity84]

Wynne will be the better healer, since she comes with the spirit healer specialization. That gives her four dedicated healing spells Morrigan doesn't have (unless you give her the specialization at level 14).

In general, you should probably try to micromanage more a bit and not rely on the AI for all details. Set some general behavior and healing, but activate the important talents yourself.

Modifié par Serenity84, 07 novembre 2009 - 02:39 .

[dimman87]

Apparently people think its completly reasonable to spend an eternity to battle, combat control and kite a band of thugs to be able to kill them. Thugs must have trained a lot, and eating chain lightnings and fireballs are everyday business for them.

[Curry Noodles]

I think Redcliffe's balance is incredibly out of whack, as is that horde quest you're talking about. The other brutal one is the backalley quests. They're super hard, and they're some of the first side quests. It makes no sense. I had tons of trouble with them, but have mopped up everything else so far. Best thing you can do is set those battles to easy, then go back to normal.

You definitely don't need a spirit healer, or even a healer period, but they are quite helpful. I've done alright without one, but my main character is a control/damage mage. Try going to the mage tower so you can pick up a dedicated healer.

I think you're building leliana incorrectly if she's not doing much damage. Up until I got arcane warrior arrows always were my absolute bane. I'd get cut down really really quickly. I found leliana was doing more damage than the melee characters up until around level 15. You need to make sure leliana is set to ranged and that she has no melee talents set to use, then you need to unequip any melee weapons she has. If you do that, she'll stay at range.

The tactics system is actually quite useful, but it's incredibly frustrating until you figure out how to work it. I went nuts for a while because the characters would randomly stop doing what I told them to do. If you want the characters to only do things you tell them to, click off the AI by using hold position. I'd change the hotkey to something easy to access, I use it all the time...

Morrigan's default spell selection is really terrible, for some reason. The good part is that she starts with both the lightning and ice single target attacks, so if you need to you can rapidly destroy enemies one at a time. If you have trouble with a single character getting mobbed, have her get force field.

The thing I find a bit confusing about the game is that mages are very important, but there are only two, and the one you start with is built super badly. Lots of low level spells. If she just started with a few of the tier 3 spells, say sleep and the cold cone attack, all would be good, but instead she has a ton of tier 1 and 2 spells. Makes the beginning very painful...

Try and get one of her AoE controls as fast as possible, either the cold cone attack or sleep.  AoE controls are super super useful. 

Modifié par Curry Noodles, 07 novembre 2009 - 02:43 .

[greeneggsnoham]

I had similar problems at first. Despite having played BG, NWN 1 and 2 etc, it took me a while to get the knack of DA:O. The main problem for me is that I'm playing a rogue, and every damn fight starts with a dialogue which takes you out of hiding and puts you right in the front line.



Things have settled down a bit now though, and I can handle most fights. Even major boss fights I can get through with only one or two reloads. Here's what I find I need to do to get through fights. Some of these might seem elementary, and I don't mean to insult anyone. Just some general tips.



1) Use doorways to pinch enemies. What I do now is send a rogue out to use range to pull targets back. I leave the others behind in a good position. Believe it or not, I have the mage standing close to the door, and as soon as the first mob comes to the door, I blast them with cone of ice. Then I send the tanks in to dish it out, while moving the mage back.



2) Control Morrigan all the time. She should cast ice weapon before the fight if possible.



3) Make sure your tank has threaten on and a defensive posture all the time.



4) This one is important - pay attention to your party members. I can't count how many times they've stopped fighting and are just standing there. There seems to be a problem when a character's pathing causes it to reset its commands. Then it just stands there.



5) Focus on one target. Even if one of your weaker players is starting to get beat on, stay on that target. As soon as you start spreading your damage around, you're dead.



6) If your mage gets aggro, run him or her past the tank. When the mob is near the tank, cast anything you can to stop it - winter's whatever, stuns, sleep etc. when it recovers, it will most often change target to the tank, assuming the tank has threaten on



7) Another great spell for Morrigan when she's higher level is the nightmare spell. Cast sleep, then nightmare, and suddenly all the mobs are attacking each other. Only do this on mobs with weak mental resistance though. If you do it to casters they'll most likely save and you'll end up with all of them targeting your mage



8) Repeat - pay attention to your party members. Most times I've wiped it was because after one party member went down I noticed that one of the others was standing in the middle of the fight, doing nothing

[Kaduos]

Serenity84 wrote...

Wynne will be the better healer, since she comes with the spirit healer specialization. That gives her four dedicated healing spells Morrigan doesn't have (unless you give her the specialization at level 14).

In general, you should probably try to micromanage more a bit and not rely on the AI for all details. Set some general behavior and healing, but activate the important talents yourself.

Perhaps I should have stated it earlier - I'm not an idiot and I know how to micromanage. Every battle turns into a red light/green light game, which is annoying. Stopping the battle every so often though will still not save a character being ganged on by 3+ enemies. I can't move all of my characters out of danger every time they get into trouble and enjoy the game at the same time. That is way to much work for a game that's supposed to be fun.

[Katteas]

"They're super hard, and they're some of the first side quests. It makes no sense. I had tons of trouble with them, but have mopped up everything else so far. Best thing you can do is set those battles to easy, then go back to normal."



They're only first if you want them to be. I dont think I got them until I was roughly level 12

[Kaduos]

Curry Noodles wrote...

1. I think you're building leliana incorrectly if she's not doing much damage. Up until I got arcane warrior arrows always were my absolute bane. I'd get cut down really really quickly. I found leliana was doing more damage than the melee characters up until around level 15. You need to make sure leliana is set to ranged and that she has no melee talents set to use, then you need to unequip any melee weapons she has. If you do that, she'll stay at range.

2. If you want the characters to only do things you tell them to, click off the AI by using hold position. I'd change the hotkey to something easy to access, I use it all the time...

3. Try and get one of her AoE controls as fast as possible, either the cold cone attack or sleep.  AoE controls are super super useful. 

1. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. I don't notice her making much of an impact on any of the fights. I have her setup with a crossbow and permanently on range with her song up. I have a few tactics setup for her rogue disables in case anyone gets to close. Overall though, she doesn't keep the range between the enemies and herself. I'm constantly having to move her out of danger and keep her at a safe distance. I also have her set to attack the main characters target, as she was drawing aggro from any she would attack on her own.

2. I've used the hold position thing a few times, the biggest being the night time fight against the undead in Redcliffe. The militia got destroyed quickly, and I was forced to run all of the undead back to the Knights for some help which they provided. Still, it would be nice to have a "hold positon in battle" button, so the characters would follow me out of battle, but stay in place when battle starts (this would do wonders for Morrigan and Liliana).

3. I have cold cone and mind blast, and yes, they are awesome when they work, and annoying when they draw aggro away from the people that need to keep it.

[elijah_kaine]

Kaduos wrote...

Serenity84 wrote...

Wynne will be the better healer, since she comes with the spirit healer specialization. That gives her four dedicated healing spells Morrigan doesn't have (unless you give her the specialization at level 14).

In general, you should probably try to micromanage more a bit and not rely on the AI for all details. Set some general behavior and healing, but activate the important talents yourself.

Perhaps I should have stated it earlier - I'm not an idiot and I know how to micromanage. Every battle turns into a red light/green light game, which is annoying. Stopping the battle every so often though will still not save a character being ganged on by 3+ enemies. I can't move all of my characters out of danger every time they get into trouble and enjoy the game at the same time. That is way to much work for a game that's supposed to be fun.

Man, well, maybe this isnt' your type of game. Personally I enjoy it. You don't have to be snarky to people trying to help you, and I did give you tactical advice. So did others. If your going to shoot down everyone's advice why ask for it?

If you wanted to complain there is an off-topic forum.

[Katteas]

Mind Blast and CoC are mild CC's. They're both used best as "Oh ****" buttons or as a a 3 second pause at the start of the fight so melee can get things in hand. Forcefield and Crushing Prison are amazing. I stand by that Cp may be the most OP spell in the game. I can think of any Yellow characters that cant be locked doan by Forcefield or CP.



Use them to take out the biggest threat. Use your mind CC's to get the underlings in control and thin the herd before the CC fades

[Kaduos]

greeneggsnoham wrote...

1) Use doorways to pinch enemies. What I do now is send a rogue out to use range to pull targets back. I leave the others behind in a good position. Believe it or not, I have the mage standing close to the door, and as soon as the first mob comes to the door, I blast them with cone of ice. Then I send the tanks in to dish it out, while moving the mage back.

2) Control Morrigan all the time. She should cast ice weapon before the fight if possible.

3) Make sure your tank has threaten on and a defensive posture all the time.

4) This one is important - pay attention to your party members. I can't count how many times they've stopped fighting and are just standing there. There seems to be a problem when a character's pathing causes it to reset its commands. Then it just stands there.

5) Focus on one target. Even if one of your weaker players is starting to get beat on, stay on that target. As soon as you start spreading your damage around, you're dead.

6) If your mage gets aggro, run him or her past the tank. When the mob is near the tank, cast anything you can to stop it - winter's whatever, stuns, sleep etc. when it recovers, it will most often change target to the tank, assuming the tank has threaten on

1. Been there, done that, though most of the fights I've encountered so far are outdoors, including the one I mentioned.

2. I already said I did.

3. When I need to, I throw it on, but defensive posture makes them less effective at dealing killing blows, so I tend to only use it for the elites and bosses. If they aren't killing anyone, they aren't doing very well as a warrior imo.

4. Unfortunately, I do - and the problems bares its ugly head when I'm constantly staring at health bars and not at the game. That isn't very entertaining.

5. I will try this more often, but in many situations, I have to split characters up just to pull aggro from everyone who unneedingly grabbed it.

6. I have done this as well, and use the "run the character in danger around until everyone is free to do something about it" tactic many times. Stunning the enemies won't do much good in a situation such as when my tank is already taking a massive beating and doesn't need more enemies adding to it. Moving Morrigan or Leliana around to avoid damage is also taking my eyes off of important combat happenings. I can't control every character at once, which is a damn shame, cause it would certainly make things easier.