62 réponses à ce sujet

[Ciller]

Now - Im not a big music fan nor do I watch videos but I will babble about the state of music videos in the modern age.



There was a time when money was to be had making music videos. Companies would pay insane amounts of money for the best possible. crazy awesome music video. This happens no more. There is no longer substantial money to be had in the selling and playing of music videos and so the amount of money being spent on them is minimal. This is why you see rap videos with girls in bikinis dancing, or your average pop video of the band playing to flashy lights. Nothing special - the day where videos deserve recognition is long past. Now that I've said that there will be people coming out of the woodwork to defend their favorite band or show and example of how this is not true and to them I say that I am only discussing an overall trend that has nothing to do with specific examples but rather the long term evolution of videos as a whole.



That or Im just talking out of my ass. It happens.

[the_one_54321]

Ciller wrote...

Now - Im not a big music fan nor do I watch videos but I will babble about the state of music videos in the modern age.

There was a time when money was to be had making music videos. Companies would pay insane amounts of money for the best possible. crazy awesome music video. This happens no more. There is no longer substantial money to be had in the selling and playing of music videos and so the amount of money being spent on them is minimal. This is why you see rap videos with girls in bikinis dancing, or your average pop video of the band playing to flashy lights. Nothing special - the day where videos deserve recognition is long past. Now that I've said that there will be people coming out of the woodwork to defend their favorite band or show and example of how this is not true and to them I say that I am only discussing an overall trend that has nothing to do with specific examples but rather the long term evolution of videos as a whole.

That or Im just talking out of my ass. It happens.

i agree. even the bands i love have lame videos.

[Maria Caliban]

the_one_54321 wrote...

strictly speaking, i dont see how being able to turn heads does not afford you some power.

keep in mind, that is strictly speeking, and not a statement of personal belief.

I'm not sure how that is anything but a statement of personal belief.

You seem to me mistaking ‘empowerment’ for ‘anything that fits the vaguest definition of power no matter how tenuous, unimportant, or subject to the whims of others.’ A person might look at an attractive woman. A parent might coddle a crying infant. Yet when it comes to parents and infants, most people would say that the parent has all the power.

[PolarGnome]

Yes, but talking out your ass with some girls grinding round it and flashy lights......music video of the year right there!

[the_one_54321]

Maria Caliban wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

strictly speaking, i dont see how being able to turn heads does not afford you some power.

keep in mind, that is strictly speeking, and not a statement of personal belief.

I'm not sure how that is anything but a statement of personal belief.

You seem to me mistaking ‘empowerment’ for ‘anything that fits the vaguest definition of power no matter how tenuous, unimportant, or subject to the whims of others.’ A person might look at an attractive woman. A parent might coddle a crying infant. Yet when it comes to parents and infants, most people would say that the parent has all the power.

how do you split up quotes in this format? 

well anyway, first off, it's a technical statement. mostly related to what you said second. power is power. being attractive affords you some measure of power over others. empirical observations have proven this.

in terms of who feels powerful, i would agree that it at least depends on the individual whom is viewed as attractive.

[Snoteye]

the_one_54321 wrote...

how do you split up quotes in this format?

Toggle on BBCode. It looks wonky in the WYSIWYG editor but it works like on BioBoards.

[Maria Caliban]

PolarGnome wrote...

Yes, but talking out your ass with some girls grinding round it and flashy lights......music video of the year right there!

H8ers be h8in'

[Nighteye2]

the_one_54321 wrote...

i dont think that music videos ever are worth an award these days. so that makes the point pretty much moot in my book.

I disagree. There are still bands that produce good music videos, like Within Temptation

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

the_one_54321 wrote...

i havent seen the video so i dont know. i dont watch music videos anymore.

but isnt being "hawt," or perhaps "desirable" is the term im looking for, also empowering in a way?

1. I would argue that yes, it is empowering in a way, but it depends on context. And also limitations or extensions of that power. Since we're on the subject of music videos, I'm going to concentrate more on that if you don't mind - I've actually spent a fair amount of time watching videos by female artistes and how they present desire, attraction, etc etc. You could argue that they're exhibiting a fair amount of power because in the videos, they're desirable, everyone wants them, they're on the top of the heap, (and in some of the 'gold-digger' themed videos the females get what they want *because* they can use their physical charms to coax or manipulate men into doing their bidding). This also extends beyond the fourth wall to the audience out there - the audience is attracted to the artistes because of what they appear as and represent, and that is used to help them sell records - elevating their power of fame and fortune.

2. But that power brings its own constraints. That power can be taken to extremes to the exclusion of all others - look at the parade of RnB / hip-hop female artistes in the last five years or so, especially the ones easily marketable as sex icons: Ashanti, Cassie, Ciara, Trina, Rihanna, Beyonce, Nicole Scherzinger, Keri Hilson, etc. The majority of their songs revolve around love, sex, desire etc - but what else have they to say? We don't hear about their intelligence, their opinions, their true selves - only about their bodies, how they feel about men and how men make them feel. A rather limiting vision if you ask me, but one that is still firmly adhered to because it sells records. It's also a vision that in turn invites the audience frame them mostly within the context of desire and beauty, but little else (cue countless "I'd hit it" comments in Youtube channels; and I have a sneaking suspicion that Scherzinger is elevated as much as trapped by expectations projected on her as a past P(ussy)cat Dolls member and a sex icon). Also, their power - within their music and without as an artiste in the real world - is defined by being wanted and in demand - they have power *only* as long as there are men around, or people who appreciate them. What happens when that audience is lost or distracted by some other object of desire? Do they still have that power, or what use is it to them? (i.e. if a tree falls and no one is there to hear it...)

3. Also, power in videos featuring females (whether the artiste or background actresses) is frequently conflated with youth, beauty and sexual desire. True, no one wants to see wrinkly old ladies in bikinis dancing in the club. But by omission what does that suggest? That (at least within today's music industry) this power is temporal, and it requires a certain set of conditions for one to have it as well as retain it? What does that say to the people watching these videos?

4. Also, when you look at female artistes seemingly having to try and out-do and out-sex each other to sell more records (seriously - everytime some artiste comes out with a new track, people expect some new kind of magic trick - some hot dance, some shedding of clothes, some risqueness - and they will even compare artistes with another, like those Beyonce vs. Rihanna fights on Youtube) - what does this suggest? Perhaps that real power lies with males / viewers / the audience who are in the position of compelling that artiste to perform for their gratification, who are able to turn that gaze on the artiste at will, and as easily turn it away to focus on others.

(And last but not least, in relation to #2, there is the question of what messages these artistes are sending out to the larger public and girls and women in general. It is not bad to be desired or to be beautiful - but when that is the only thing that is being said, and one strives for it at the exclusion of everything else, then it becomes a problem.) 

(And as a caveat, in case anyone wants to argue the point: I don't necessarily find all music videos with sexual imagery as something pornographic, distasteful or degrading to females. For example, Mya's "My Love Is Like... Whoa" is actually something that fascinates me because it suggests subtle shifts of power, authority and control back and forth between her and the male viewer / audience in its imagery, but that's another thesis for later. I'm probably wasting too much time as an English major delving into the subliminal when it's possible that there's very little there in actuality.)

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 16 octobre 2009 - 11:28 .

[the_one_54321]

well, if you want it all in the context of music videos i would never argue that the overall effect is anything but overall and exceedingly bad.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 16 octobre 2009 - 10:55 .

[MightySword]

This is the best music video to date, period. Not exactly safe for work material.

Modifié par MightySword, 16 octobre 2009 - 11:04 .

[Snoteye]

For several years I've suspected that music is just something clever people make as an excuse to show video clips of pretty wimminz in little clothing. And this thread needs more Phil Collins.

[Amberyl Ravenclaw]

the_one_54321 wrote...

well, if you want it all in the context of music videos i would never argue that the overall effect is anything but overall and exceedingly bad.

It's just one perspective. But if you want to extend it to the real world as well, at least in the context of where I've been heading for those last few paragraphs, one could argue that one's power/ability to attract others can potentially be a stumbling block in the sense that others *may* (emphasis on the *may*) be inclined to see one as an object of desire first and other qualities second (and importantly, an object to be acted upon rather than a person) **. In that sense, one's own power, and potential beyond the sexual is limited and hindered. It's just a philosophical opinion though, and no one has to agree.

** And I have known people who are like that, from firsthand experience. Not very pleasant or empowering.

Modifié par Amberyl Ravenclaw, 16 octobre 2009 - 11:26 .

[Maria Caliban]

the_one_54321 wrote...

well anyway, first off, it's a technical statement. mostly related to what you said second. power is power. being attractive affords you some measure of power over others. empirical observations have proven this.

And as I said before: You seem to me mistaking ‘empowerment’ for ‘anything that fits the vaguest definition of power no matter how tenuous, unimportant, or subject to the whims of others.’

I could squash a bug right now and it would show power - but not empowerment.
I could order a pizza right now and it would show power - but not empowerment.
I could drive my car and technically it would show power - but not empowerment.

Empowerment is not about 'technical power' as semantically, power can refer to a wide range of phenomenon that are not empowering.

in terms of who feels powerful...

Does not matter. Drinking makes some people feel powerful. Slapping around a loved one makes some people feel powerful.

Again, that has nothing to do with empowerment.

[Maria Caliban]

I think it might be good to step back and examine the words ‘empower’ and ‘empowerment.’



The original term arose sometime during the 1600s, and meant a granting someone a specific, legal authority. I could empower my lawyer to carry out the terms of my will. Later, during the civil rights movements, it came to refer to minorities receiving the same legal, social, and economic standing as those in power.



You seem to be using the more pop psychology term, wherein a woman uses her personalized color pattern to find their inner whack-a-mole and thus finds the nerve to buy those breezy set of pumps that are half-price off or to splurge on a frozen yoghurt and not feel guilty afterwards.



I tend to view the last definition as a huge degradation of the term, but yes, if that’s what you mean, a woman might be empowered by having someone check her out simply because it makes her feel good.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Like people understand - while Maria's dome does empower her to shoot rays at light at you, She is not empowered by an legal authority to do so.

[Punahedan]

flem1 wrote...

I'm shocked, shocked that there's no rickrolling on this thread.

Now why would we do that? 

[Ekyri]

MightySword wrote...

This is the best music video to date, period. Not exactly safe for work material.

That is so... awesome!!

[Mistress9Nine]

MightySword wrote...

This is the best music video to date, period. Not exactly safe for work material.

Oh, p-lease! NSFW? I'll give you NSFW. Also one of the best videos of the years, sadly it was released after the VMAs.

http://videa.hu/vide...PmSTefZbbBsB0au

PS: Richard Kruspe is
PPS: Sorry for the .hu link it's the only unsensored version I know of. Hungary rocks the uncensored content!

Modifié par Mistress9Nine, 17 octobre 2009 - 06:40 .

[Zagogulina1]

waaay too feminist. Didn't like it.

Modifié par Zagogulina1, 17 octobre 2009 - 07:00 .

[swirlwind]

[quote]Mistress9Nine wrote...

Oh, p-lease! NSFW? I'll give you NSFW. Also one of the best videos of the years, sadly it was released after the VMAs.

http://videa.hu/vide...PmSTefZbbBsB0au

PS: Richard Kruspe is
[/quote]

[/quote]Mistress9Nine, my hero (I got the whole album yesterday and it seriously rocks.)

Modifié par swirlwind, 17 octobre 2009 - 10:31 .

[DigitalOrigami]

Snoteye wrote...

For several years I've suspected that music is just something clever people make as an excuse to show video clips of pretty wimminz in little clothing. And this thread needs more Phil Collins.

Abso-fraggin'-lutely!     

[Sampaguita]

Snoteye wrote...

And this thread needs more Phil Collins.

Thanks. You are absolutely right!

[Lucy Glitter]

My vote goes for  Svefn-G-Englar by Sigur Ros I really encourage you guys to watch it. It made me cry. It is the most beautiful music video I have ever seen.

Be careful, though, it will make you cry your eyes out. Not in a bad way, but it's just so... emotional. So beautiful. 

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 17 octobre 2009 - 02:23 .

[Sampaguita]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

My vote goes for  Svefn-G-Englar by Sigur Ros I really encourage you guys to watch it. It made me cry. It is the most beautiful music video I have ever seen.

Be careful, though, it will make you cry your eyes out. Not in a bad way, but it's just so... emotional. So beautiful. 

Sorry, but this didn't cause much emotions to me. The music was surely not my cup of tea and the video itself made me just shrug (like most music videos do today).