280 réponses à ce sujet

[Reclusiarch]

I only play my own gender, so Male Shepard is the only option for me. Still, I like the voice acting of both.

[Milana_Saros]

Luc0s wrote...

Milana_Saros wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

No honestly, I just can't understand how people can prefer femShep to maleShep or even think maleShep doesn't work.

Cos I'm female myself? Please don't forget the possibility of female gamers...

I don't. Maybe I should have said: "I can't understand how people  (male-gamers in specific) can prefer femShep to maleShep or even think maleShep doesn't work."

I know many of us prefer to play a character of our own gender and I respect that. I just don't understand MALE gamers going all crazy on femShep and hatefull at maleShep. It's crazy in my opinion. I don't want to stereotype anyone but I almost get the feeling that 90% of these male-gamers going femShep all the way are people who seriously need to get laid, I ESPECIALLY tent to think that way when I read this silly argument: "I dunno about you but I rather stare at a female's ass than a man's ass." *facepalm*

I hear that comment a lot...about starting at the ass. My fiancé doesn't understand it either, he always plays a guy since he is a guy. Having never played a male-Shep I can't really say what the reason could actually be but I've heard quite a few people mention that femShep voice acting is a lot better. Could be that then...I don't know.

[pelhikano]

I found playing as FemShep very refreshing (as a male) because for once it's not yet another male supersoldier (Master Ch1ef lol) but a female one. It's a welcome change, and it helps that Jennifer Hale's voice acting is so good.

[Autoclave]

i play femshep because of gameplaying reasons. She has a smaller body, thus I can see more while I'm playing ME. Otherwise it does not make any difference for me.

[Estelindis]

Mighty_BOB_cnc wrote...

Maybe it's because your played through with a male shep first? And the BioWare male shep at that.

I played through my first time in ME1 with a custom female shep and now males don't feel right to me. My 'canon' shep in all the ME games will always be that femshep from my first playthrough. All the others are just to experience the other content.

This is exactly how I feel too!  I think one's first playthrough really defines what is normative.  ;-)

[didiware]

Luc0s wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Yeah... female Shepard...

It just doesn't work for me.

No honestly, I just can't understand how people can prefer femShep to maleShep or even think maleShep doesn't work.
This is not a troll-post, I'm not trolling people. But honestly, I played both, female Shepard and male Shepard, in fact, my very first custom Shepard (ME1) was a female Shepard (after beating ME1 with the pre-made John Shepard Soldier).

I'm not a sexist either. I think females can be pretty damn ass-kicking in space. Ashley is a bad example (she does NOT kick ass), but Samus Aran from Metriod Prime is. Samus simply kicks ass and you gotta love her!

But no, not femShep, femShep just feels weird and wrong. Maybe it's Jennifer Hale? Nah, I don't think so. Even though I prefer Mark Meer, Jeniffer Hale did her best to fit her voice for the character.

Personally, I think it's the script. The whole script makes me feel as if BioWare wrote it with maleShepard in their heads, and later during the game development simply replaced maleShep with femShep for those who want to play female, without changing much (if anything) at the script. This makes femShep feel misplaced and misfit and I simply can't understand I'm the only one bothered by this (or are there more people who think this way?).

Please tell me, am I the only one who sees/feels this? And did BioWare indeed write the ME script with the canon male John Shepard in the back of their heads and simply add femShep to it later on?

Firstly, it's always more interesting to play a female character than a male character. Male characters are fairly limited in people's perceptions of their abilities, a female character is already(sad as it may be) breaking out of her predetermined role simply because she is the hero, and as such has more freedom to go about things differently than a typical male action hero.

For Mass Effect specifically, I always got the impression that Shepard fit the galaxy better if she was a female, but that is my opinion, and I do not force it on others. Now for something that seems like an opinion but is not. Jennifer Hale's voice acting is far superior than Mark Meer's and she is better at creating a believable Commander Shepard than he is. She is the voice I hear when I think of Commander Shepard, simply because she fits it so well.

I honestly would rather not play Mass Effect at all than slog through a playthrough with maleshep, but you don't see me making a full thread about it do you?

Please, don't act so butthurt.

First you accuse me of things, then you do exactly the same thing.

No, Hale's voice-acting is NOT superior to Meer's, that just YOUR OPINION. It's NOT a fact.

In this topic I'm merely stating my opinion and asking a few questions. Comparing to most flame-topics on this forum about LI and the ME2 story, I think my topic is quite mild, reasonable and politically correct. So please, don't act so personally attacked, I didn't attack anyone.

You prefer femShep to maleShep? Good for you. I don't and I have my reasons for it, good reasons actually. Maybe if femShep was canon and maleShep was only an extra, it would have been the other way around, I would have loved femShep and disliked maleShep. But the fact that BioWare simply replaced the maleShep model for a femShep model and let Jennifer Hale redo Mark Meer's lines makes femShep feel misplaced, IN MY OPINION.

Maybe BioWare could try to fix this with ME3, so I would equally love femShep as much as maleShep.

So what you're saying is that it bugs you that maleshep is cannon? You would, in fact, prefer a non-cannon storyline(I know I would). One where there is no "John Sheperd" in the trailers and so on. That way, it would be easier for you to enjoy a femaleshep?
Or just a script where femaleshep is highlighted?
Maybe there's specific moments when you feel as if it just doesn't fit? Share?

[Blue Face Beast]

I played both genders and i liked both! Yeah i know, i am crazy like that

[VSJagger]

Gotta disagree with you to me I can only see Shepard as a girl. I'm going to assume it's because that's the first way I played the game and while that probably isn't the case for everyone it seems true enough for me. I have nothing against people who play Male Shepards and that's great that it works for them, when I tried to do it I struggled all the way to the end of the first game and never came back that character since.



General line that I keep seeing is it all comes down to personal preference and I think that's true.

[InvaderErl]

The claim that MaleShep is cliche and is therefore somehow invalid as a character is just as bad as the one that FemShep is unbelievable because she is a girl. Really.

[Beechwell]

Luc0s wrote...
I know many of us prefer to play a character of our own gender and I respect that. I just don't understand MALE gamers going all crazy on femShep and hatefull at maleShep. It's crazy in my opinion. I don't want to stereotype anyone but I almost get the feeling that 90% of these male-gamers going femShep all the way are people who seriously need to get laid, I ESPECIALLY tent to think that way when I read this silly argument: "I dunno about you but I rather stare at a female's ass than a man's ass." *facepalm*

This sounds a bit like you only respect people who play their own gender, but think male players who play femSheps have some issue with their masculinity. And now you want to rationalize this by arguing that femShep doesn't fit the role. 
(not wanting to troll or offend, but that is how you come across at times)

I'm pretty certain that the issue for every one comes down primarily to an emotional response, especially seeing how your first play through tends to determine your personal view of Shepard. This doesn't only apply to gender but also to language for example.

Peronally I find maleShep a bit like Jacob. Believable, nice, but rather boring. FemShep feels more like an individual, has more mystery to her, possibly because she is in a role originally designed for a male lead. And indeed, while I could care less about her ass, I do prefer watching the face of a pretty woman over that of a male that I never got to look the way I wanted.
But this is also more an emotional than a rational decision. Which is why neither side will convince the other that they are right.

[_Nyorai]

Past surveys/polls regarding gender for games show those games that allow for female customization have higher ratings AND more people buy them. Look at the Witcher forums, gotta play only as a dude, and some folks wrote in that they wouldn't even purchase it 'cause of that. BW conducted their own survey after ME1 came out, wonder what the results were? Secondly, some of the games that allow customization (Titan Quest & Diablo), make their female choices "scantily clad". Like, I'd go into battle wearing a thong!!! So, kudos to BW for not only allowing a female character, but letting her "kick ass" if she wants. (in the same armor as a guy, I might add!)

[Wynne]

Luc0s wrote...


No honestly, I just can't understand how people can prefer femShep to maleShep or even think maleShep doesn't work.This is not a troll-post, I'm not trolling people. But honestly, I played both, female Shepard and male Shepard, in fact, my very first custom Shepard (ME1) was a female Shepard (after beating ME1 with the pre-made John Shepard Soldier).

I'm not a sexist either. I think females can be pretty damn ass-kicking in space. Ashley is a bad example (she does NOT kick ass), but Samus Aran from Metriod Prime is. Samus simply kicks ass and you gotta love her! But no, not femShep, femShep just feels weird and wrong. Maybe it's Jennifer Hale? Nah, I don't think so. Even though I prefer Mark Meer, Jeniffer Hale did her best to fit her voice for the character.

Personally, I think it's the script. The whole script makes me feel as if BioWare wrote it with maleShepard in their heads, and later during the game development simply replaced maleShep with femShep for those who want to play female, without changing much (if anything) at the script.

I don't at all feel like FemShep is 'out of place' per se, but I agree that something does feel off. I'd ascribe that to a combination of not being quite critical enough in terms of editing when it comes to writing, and not changing the animations for scenes.

I think in some cases, you're right. Not so much with Thane, but with the bulk of Garrus' interactions I think they realized "Hey, this sounds wrong," in some parts, but didn't catch the "still really not sounding quite right" parts. For instance, who tells somebody they're romantically interested in that they were always ugly, and why would that person laugh rather than be a bit hurt/offended? I know they're friends, but it was odd to me. And why would talk of a past encounter with another female prompt a person to hit on someone? Felt a little... tacked on, in places. Like they took the male conversations as a base and didn't quite go far enough with making them work for a female. It's subtle, but noticeable.

I think it's also in some places more the animations than anything else. Sometimes it really works, but other times the movements look MUCH more natural for MaleShep in certain parts of the game. And that quest with Garrus... I had to laugh because while MaleShep's face stands almost fully between Sidonis and that sniper scope, FemShep leaves about half of Sidonis' head free and clear. Kinda makes that whole situation ridiculous. They should've had Garrus on the ground floor.

But when it comes to voice, I listen to Mark Meer and... he did great this time for the truly important stuff, much better than the first game... but Jennifer Hale sounds like she means what she's saying just about all the time. Like she's actually outraged when I'm outraged, like she's actually disgusted when I'm disgusted, like she's actually deadly when I'm feeling ready to shoot someone. She just gets the script a bit better, even though it wasn't written for her; I think she can visualize what's happening in the scene quite easily. Mark Meer... for the minor missions, like the quarian on the Citadel for instance, he just sounds rather flat. Like he's having an everyday small-talk conversation with someone he's never going to see again. I can see the effort he put in, but I think his lack of experience at voice is very noticeable to anyone who's tried their hand at it. Hale just knows what she's doing all the way through, and it shows. 

I think it's ironic that the better actor of the two (not that he's bad, and I vastly prefer Mark Meer to the lame guys who try so hard to sound deep and rough and tough, but he could be a lot better if he gave 100% effort to everything instead of just the major missions) doesn't seem to be taken into account as often during the writing. Overall, the "not quite right"ness mostly evens out, if you ask me. I think the full experience of both sides of the game's protagonist would be better if

(a) The voice director would stay on Mark Meer and demand his best performance for all of it,
( The writers and animators would be just a tad more critical in terms of whether something truly works for FemShep or not and make alterations accordingly. And, I mean, for crying out loud, was proper lip-synch for the love scene with Thane too much to ask? Will we see that patched?

I enjoy both my male and female playthroughs and I want them to feel both distinct and consistently awesome.

Modifié par Wynne, 19 février 2010 - 05:21 .

[The Angry One]

Oh please, the reason you think Hale exaggerates is that Meer drones on and on like a robot.

FemShep > ManShep. Always has been, always will be. Jealous?

[sunovafm]

how could femshep not work for you



man shep dose not work for me just feels wrong



mabey this is because im female my self ?

[The Angry One]

I personally feel that the problem with ManShep is.. well.. he's common. Run of the mill. Predictable.

Male space hero? Oh gee that's original. That only accounts for 99.9% of all sci-fi stories ever written.



A strong female lead who does NOT need a male character in front of her on the other hand is rarer and by that virtue alone more interesting.

But that's not the only reason. I don't think Meer is a bad actor, but he lacks effort. He drones like he's totally uninterested. Hale puts in that extra mile, those subtle changes of voice. I feel her emotions, I feel nothing from Meer other than "okay I read this line, next."



And don't even get me started on Sheploo.

[hwf]

Shepard seems to me like a woman who is confident in her abilities as a Commander, secure and assertive - exactly what is required of a leader.

Mind you, I'm not biased between genders, for me both Hale and Meer do a fine job articulating the voice of Shepard.
Comparing the two voice actors isn't really fair, Hale's resume wipes the floor with most and hers will at the very least stand toe-to-toe with Sheen's.

It seems to me however that most men, even "modern men", are intimidated by women who break the typical gender stereotypes.
This isn't exclusive to any one country, culture or medium - most "tough" action hero females are either dressed up to accentuate their feminine side or have a flirtatious role to play.
While Ripley's an excellent character of an assertive woman who isn't afraid to call the shots even she has scenes in which you can ask - is that functional half-nudity really needed?
Even Williams, while certainly an assertive woman who knows and goes for what she wants, has to have a "girly side" so that men aren't scared away - in her case that would be an affinity for poetry.
This isn't anything new: Jeanne d'Arc, heroine and liberator of France, was depicted wearing a skirt over her full plate battle armor to reinforce her being a woman even though she never did such a thing in reality.
It's pretty sad that humanity hasn't moved forward in this regard since that was about 600 years ago.

And as mentioned, Samus Aran isn't on the same level as Shepard.
A mascara wearing blonde in power armor -"hardly a breakthrough for feminism"- who shoots things is a far far cry from a confident, secure and assertive woman calling the shots and directing others.

This on it's own is accentuated within Mass Effect - and is reflected in the script of both Mass Effect games.
A female shepard gets the opportunity to chew out Harkin's sexist attitude, for example.
Dito with the Warlord a renegade Shepard gets to visit - who starts out spouting a sexist rant about not being taken seriously when a female Shepard is sent in to deal with him.
Similar themes can be found in Mass Effect 2, actually - and Shepard can handle those encounters very aptly as well.

A couple of months ago a Lieutenant-Colonel Esmeralda Kleinreesink, a Dutch female army officer who served in Afghanistan, voiced her opinion on the situation there in a talk show on Dutch television.
And frankly she appeared to me as definitely the equal, in all aspects, of every male officer present.
Mind you, if you map the rank of Lt.Colonel to the Navy, you would get the rank of Commander.
As a sidenote -though it's obvious in my opinion- officers in the military are definately not as gung-ho verbally as the script of Mass Effect goes, but that's what you get for playing a game.

I do not perceive Shepard as "butch".
She's a commander most of the time which isn't at all different from a male Shepard.
And she's a woman only when required - as you can see with the Vakarian or Krios romances.

If anything it's a little bit disturbing that while Mass Effect is marketed under the "this is your Shepard's story" the promotional videos lack any reference let alone equal time for the female stock Shepard.
It appears the marketeers at EA also have a certain disdain for secure and assertive women who are in charge.
It's a shame really, because in my opinion they're alienating up to half of the audience and potential market of Mass Effect.

I can only hope they'll eventually come around and man up.

[squidbunny]

Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinions and preferences, but I am seriously laughing aloud right now at the OP, where Samus Aran ca. Metroid Prime is put forth as a kickass woman, immediately followed by pinning female Shepard's deficiencies on Jennifer Hale.



Jennifer Hale provided Samus' [admittedly limited] voicework in the Prime games.

[tmp7704]

Archilochos wrote...

On maleShep and Mark Meer: I honestly don't get the whole "maleShep's a cliche" thing.  Yes, space marines are a cliche, and yes, action heroes are also cliches.  Yet, even within those categories, there are plenty of twists that break the mold.  Sure, maleShep can kick ass and chew gum, etc., but he can also charm, persuade, talk his way OUT of violence, sneak, steal, evade, stab in the back like a coward, etc... all very much not in line with the cliche.

The thing with male Shepard is, while there can be "twists that break the mold" there isn't really such twists present in ME which weren't already done by literally dozens of other male leads, meaning in the end he doesn't really break any molds. Yes, Shepard can crack jokes, he can be either rude or he can be nice but that's about it, the way he comes across in the out-of-combat parts of the game is as generic and overplayed as it gets, down to the monotone delivery which you admit yourself is also conforming to the male stereotype. (the sneaking, stealing and evading is rarely if ever present in the game even in the combat parts, so i have to consider it a failed stretch to make the argument more sound)

It's no coincidence that other characters who follow this exact pattern (Jacob and to degree Kaidan) are widely dismissed by the players as the most boring of the bunch. Objectively male Shepard is just like them; it's just easier to overlook due to player's attachment to their own character and extra importance given to one's own choices.

Modifié par tmp7704, 19 février 2010 - 05:58 .

[The Angry One]

hwf wrote...

If anything it's a little bit disturbing that while Mass Effect is marketed under the "this is your Shepard's story" the promotional videos lack any reference let alone equal time for the female stock Shepard.
It appears the marketeers at EA also have a certain disdain for secure and assertive women who are in charge.
It's a shame really, because in my opinion they're alienating up to half of the audience and potential market of Mass Effect.

I can only hope they'll eventually come around and man up.

Yeah this irritated me no end. ME1 had at least some acknowledgement of FemShep in preview vids.
ME2 had nothing. Just freaking Sheploo everywhere. I hate Sheploo. I want him to die alone in a ditch in flourescent pink armour while FemShep and ManShep laugh at him.

[deadshame]

Like i've said before: I can't stand FemShep. I think its a combination of the script and Jennifer Hale. I don't mind her at all, but she doesn't fit FemShep. And she just sounds creepy during the romance dialogue.