280 réponses à ce sujet

[Lightice_av]

These boards are full of blind hate for Mark Meer though, so don't expect many constructive posts in this thread.

I wouldn't call it blind hate, and I haven't seen anyone dissing him in this thread so far. I just found him to be your generic badass space marine, and some of his more emotional lines annoyingly wooden. I don't hate him; I just prefer his female counterpart. Everybody has their preferences; lets respect each other for them.

[RhythmlessNinja]

This is strictly my opinion & all so don't go flaming for it...here goes. Female shepard, when I play her, I feel like I'm doing it just to do it...as in I don't really want to but wanting to see the difference. I havent found one scene or convo that is done "better" than her male counterpart. Her voice actually seems so forced & fake it just takes away from the experience. Dont get me wrong though, I'm all for badass space chicks but she does an "obvious" job of it.



What I mean by that is she is obviously, trying to sound badass. Where as she shouldnt be obvious about it but feel natural.



On to male shep, this guy is just hilarious. His acting & body language fits the convos he has, and the typical cocky attitude & voice tone he gives off in many situations just makes it seem more realistic. The only thing that I can say they kind of dropped the ball on is his facial expessions at certain points in the game. My point is this, Femshep sounds like a fake marine trying to play her part, while male shep sounds like an actual marine and is naturally expressed. He doesn't sound too "badass" or too "lacking", He sounds like he should at the right times & places. Unlike Femshep where she's trying the fake badass routine the entire playthrough.



Again, this is all just my opinion so lets just keep it civil.

[chem light]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

Doing the Krogan headbutt with a girl is all i asked for in life...

This post is full of win...

Also, as to the previous poster who though maleShep was animated better, I think it depends on the scene.

For instance, give Dr. Chawkwas her brandy as femShep and Shep's expression is priceless.  Watched my husband do it and it was creepy. 

[MsKlaussen]

Luc0s wrote...

cylriasilver wrote...

Actually I was going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt when he said this wasn't intended as a troll post. That illusion vanished after reading his replies.

Which is a shame, because I'm honestly on the middleground in this.

I knew I kinda could expect people going into defensive positions about femShep when I made this topic, some people go kinda far when it comes to defending their beloved femShep. But like I said, I don't want to attack your femShep, I don't want to attack Jennifer Hale's voice-acting because I know she's good. But as soon as I made this topic, people started b*tching on Meer's voice-acting (while this topic is about how BioWare just copy-pasted femShep in the game, not about Meer's voice-acting), saying outdated stuff like "I rather stare at a female's ass than a male's ass", defending their positions as femShep players (while I didn't attack femShep players either) and no doubt some people even think now that I'm anti-femshep, which is just bollocks.

I'd love to have an open debate about this, without b*tching from either side. I'm not anti-femshep people, I just wish BioWare would spent more time on writing new dialogues for femShep and programming new character animations for her, to make her feel more natural and not a female model and voice copy-pasted over a male character.

But yeah, maybe it's just me. I don't care, I just wanted to say this. No need to go trolling from either side.

On the animations, it's definitely not just you. I've actually said in several threads (and I'm probably not the only one who had a problem with this) that FemShep runs and walks like a Cro-Magnon. That lumbering gait would work perfectly for a man but it is borderline obscene for a woman - especially one as slight of build as Shepard.

I tried to rationalize it as okay because she's wearing armor, but that only works for about as long as it takes me to run from the galaxy map platform to the elevator, after which it re-takes its position as "absurd". So then I walk places instead, and when I do it looks like one leg is about 6" longer than the other or one of my knees is fused.

I tried to rationalize that by remembering that FemShep had been in a horrendous accident. But then I remembered that my face looks flawless because the computers are advanced enough to make me look like anybody I want; certainly more of a challenge than correcting my skeleton so I can walk normally.

It certainly wouldn't have been too much to ask to have a real live woman get into the motion capture suit. The game and the company that makes it prides itself on realism and attention to detail, so I can't see this as overlooked - more like disdain.

That goes for the mannerisms too - as I watched FemShep do things while standing still or whatever that I nor any of my girlfriends would ever be doing - including the tomboys of the group.

It's not quite immersion-breaking, but it is definitely obvious and bothersome enough to escape constant notice.

Modifié par MsKlaussen, 16 février 2010 - 12:28 .

[DaeJi]

I remember when I first got Mass Effect; I began the game with a male Shepard, custom face and everything. No problem with the voice. Played up to Liara, then I had to go back to school which mean two weeks of no Mass Effect. So I'm milling around the internet, avoiding spoilers, when I see a video comparing the big Normandy speeches with the male and female Shepard. Since I was passed that part, I watched. Heard Hale's voice.



Still haven't finished that first character...



Anyway, people prefer their Shepard's gender for different reasons. Since Shepard is voiced, it's a bit different than in other games, like Dragon Age: Origins. Voice matters now, and each person is drawn to a different voice.

[Talogrungi]

I'm cool with Femshep.

It's nice to be able to make a decent looking protaganist.

Every maleshep I make is hideous.

[SarEnyaDor]

The walking-like-a man problem is present in Dragon Age as well. They all use the same animation, so they all walk like men. A bit weird to see my petite little elven mage holding her arms out and walking like she just got off a horse....

[goldenbender]

It took a while, but I'm finally used to hearing femSheps voice. Changing my character's face really helped. I think in trying to make an attractive face, I originally made her look too young. The huskiness of her voice simply didn't feel right coming from a character that looked like she was in her early 20s.



Still, I feel that huskiness sounds a little forced even now, like Hale is doing the voice of a person doing a voice. Because of that, femShep to me comes off somewhat milquetoast and less convincing as a commander. I will say though that some of her renegade deliveries are spot on. "I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do want it?" = gold.

[Markinator_123]

This is me subjectively speaking, I personally prefer male shepard in all aspects. Besides, the female Shepard's voice lines seem forced

[tmp7704]

KumoriOokami wrote...

I disagree that she walks like a -man- though. She walks like a soldier.  She's a professional soldier she's not going to walk too differently really especially while on duty.

Well, there's some differences in how the centre of weight is placed and such that'd force it to be slightly different for each gender but i can agree with that, overall. The animations didn't bother me personally, they feel neutral enough for a person clad in a heavy armoured outfit, combat boots and whatnot. Definitely isn't going to be anywhere near typical exaggerated female "sexy walk" nonsense.

[Beechwell]

I also primarily play FemShep, and find her generally much better fitting the role than MaleShep. The walk doesn't bother me so much. For one, there are worse examples of female charaters with "masculine" walk (*cough* Morrigan *cough*), and second I would think that a trained female soldier would indeed move not particularly feminine - at least on the job. I lack any first hand experience about that, so I may be wrong.

Actually I find it quite refreshing that FemShep is not depicted as over-the-top feminine as Miranda, or, say, Lara Croft (love Lara, but she is really mostly created as a male fantasy). FemShep is not a sex object, but still retains much feminine charm, something that is rather rare in entertainment.



Admittedly, some scenes - espcially some Renegade "thug" responses - but also ordering drinks - don't fit very well with FemShep (or maybe just not with my personal vision of her), so I avoid those. Any friendly conversations with crew members however feel much more natural and sincere with a female Shepard, in no small part due to Hale's voice acting.

Anything Shep can do, FemShep can do better.

This just begs to be made into a video. I was surprised I couldn't find that on YouTube. Please somebody make a Shep vs. Shep Anything you can do vid!

[chem light]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

The walking-like-a man problem is present in Dragon Age as well. They all use the same animation, so they all walk like men. A bit weird to see my petite little elven mage holding her arms out and walking like she just got off a horse....

Haha...I always though that every time they went into combat mode.   I was like, do I need to find a restroom for you?

[tirea_atreides]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I'm sorry you don't like femShep, I persoanlly love Hale's voice acting and the freedom to actually play my own gender in a game that doesn't have elves.

This.



When I first started ME1 I was so happy that I could play my own gender for real (in comparison to non-real-sexist-female-heroines like Bayonetta) that it didn't even occur to me to play a maleShep. So I played my femShep once, twice... four times before trying out the maleShep. And suffice to say that I only managed to force myself to play through Eden Prime and Therum with him. It just felt totally wrong and... just wrong. It's not about the VA either because even when I see videos of some other femSheps i still get the filling that something's not right (still, with maleShep it's greater).

Also, someone said that maleShep is a better renegade, and femShep a better paragon. And just a few posts later someone said exactly the opposite thing. The same with the VA. And with the female as a soldier thing. For each person saying one thing you can always find someone who will have exactly the opposite feelings.

I just think that BW managed to accomplish something that was not present in many games before - this incredibly personal connection you have with the character you play. It seems that for most people there's just one right Shepard - and who she/he is depends on the person.

[Jzadek72]

Marilynn-22 wrote...

I really don't like mark meers voice for the maleshep, sounds empty xD

It IS empty

[KumoriOokami]

tirea_atreides wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...
I'm sorry you don't like femShep, I persoanlly love Hale's voice acting and the freedom to actually play my own gender in a game that doesn't have elves.

This.

When I first started ME1 I was so happy that I could play my own gender for real (in comparison to non-real-sexist-female-heroines like Bayonetta) that it didn't even occur to me to play a maleShep. So I played my femShep once, twice... four times before trying out the maleShep. And suffice to say that I only managed to force myself to play through Eden Prime and Therum with him. It just felt totally wrong and... just wrong. It's not about the VA either because even when I see videos of some other femSheps i still get the filling that something's not right (still, with maleShep it's greater).
Also, someone said that maleShep is a better renegade, and femShep a better paragon. And just a few posts later someone said exactly the opposite thing. The same with the VA. And with the female as a soldier thing. For each person saying one thing you can always find someone who will have exactly the opposite feelings.
I just think that BW managed to accomplish something that was not present in many games before - this incredibly personal connection you have with the character you play. It seems that for most people there's just one right Shepard - and who she/he is depends on the person.

This is very well said!  The whole point is that there's a choice and it's a good choice to have.   I think it's great that so many people are so attached to their characters in this game as it is what really makes the games so compelling and emotionally engaging.  

This thread and the level of thought going into the discussion really highlight how great of a job BW has done here. :-)

[Gill Kaiser]

tirea_atreides wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...
I'm sorry you don't like femShep, I persoanlly love Hale's voice acting and the freedom to actually play my own gender in a game that doesn't have elves.

This.

When I first started ME1 I was so happy that I could play my own gender for real (in comparison to non-real-sexist-female-heroines like Bayonetta) that it didn't even occur to me to play a maleShep. So I played my femShep once, twice... four times before trying out the maleShep. And suffice to say that I only managed to force myself to play through Eden Prime and Therum with him. It just felt totally wrong and... just wrong. It's not about the VA either because even when I see videos of some other femSheps i still get the filling that something's not right (still, with maleShep it's greater).
Also, someone said that maleShep is a better renegade, and femShep a better paragon. And just a few posts later someone said exactly the opposite thing. The same with the VA. And with the female as a soldier thing. For each person saying one thing you can always find someone who will have exactly the opposite feelings.
I just think that BW managed to accomplish something that was not present in many games before - this incredibly personal connection you have with the character you play. It seems that for most people there's just one right Shepard - and who she/he is depends on the person.

I felt that way during ME1. I played with FemShep first, and didn't like Mark Meer as much. However, I then waited a year before playing the game again, and this time played as a Male Shepard... and I enjoyed it just as much as the first time. I imported my MaleShep into ME2 when it came out, and used him for my first playthrough. I have now imported my FemShep and am playing through ME2 with her. I'm at the point where I can appreciate both.

Let me tell you, if someone says that either Hale or Meer is definitively better than the other in ME2, they're wrong. In my experience they're equally good, but different. Some lines Hale does better, some lines Meer does better, but most lines they do equally well, but differently.

[MsKlaussen]

tmp7704 wrote...

KumoriOokami wrote...

I disagree that she walks like a -man- though. She walks like a soldier.  She's a professional soldier she's not going to walk too differently really especially while on duty.

Well, there's some differences in how the centre of weight is placed and such that'd force it to be slightly different for each gender but i can agree with that, overall. The animations didn't bother me personally, they feel neutral enough for a person clad in a heavy armoured outfit, combat boots and whatnot. Definitely isn't going to be anywhere near typical exaggerated female "sexy walk" nonsense.

No, it won't go that far, but there are certain anatomical differences between men and women that tend to facilitate a motion that, when actually exagerrated, becomes the obvious "sexy walk" you refer to.

If someone can prove me wrong from a scientific standpoint (since from an experience standpoint I could never walk as stiffly through the spine and hips as a man without actually trying), I am willing to accept that. But when you consider a) the width and shape of a woman's hips compared to a man, and the shape/muscle mass/width ratio of a woman versus a man going from the chest area to the abdomen to the hips, and finally c) the shape differences of the pelvis and inner thighs of a woman compared to a man, it is not difficult to understand why a woman's gait is more fluid, hip motion is more of a roll, and butt tends to do what it does.

Something like armor will take away the fluidity, but it will not remove the influence of those anatomical factors. You could dress a male and female identically, remove or obscure anything which made the differences obvious in profile (such as breasts), film the silhouettes of each walking, and 9 out of 10 people will still be able to tell which is which. It's just "a thing".

[NihilisticN]

Always liked Bioware's VA.

Mark has the emotionless drone suits a renegade shepard (hilarious while unintentional), while Jen has that touchy feely vibe that suits playing as paragon perfectly. You may disagree which is cool but this is how I usually play it by. Now it feels wierd for me to see female Shepard as a renegade and vice versa.

[tirea_atreides]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I felt that way during ME1. I played with FemShep first, and didn't like Mark Meer as much. However, I then waited a year before playing the game again, and this time played as a Male Shepard... and I enjoyed it just as much as the first time. I imported my MaleShep into ME2 when it came out, and used him for my first playthrough. I have now imported my FemShep and am playing through ME2 with her. I'm at the point where I can appreciate both.



Let me tell you, if someone says that either Hale or Meer is definitively better than the other in ME2, they're wrong. In my experience they're equally good, but different. Some lines Hale does better, some lines Meer does better, but most lines they do equally well, but differently.

Well, I'll probably try to play ME2 with a maleShep... maybe even force myself to finish it ;-).

As for the VA. I wouldn't say that one is BETTER than the other. And some people like yourself can appreciate both Hale and Meer. I personally prefer Hale, but that's probably the part of my connection with femShep and that only this voice is the right one for me (that doesn't mean I think she's better or that Meer is a bad VA).

[yeldarbnotned]

I think Bioware had every intention from the beginning for the character to be male or female. All there games give the player that option. But, Mass Effect is the first with an actual speaking player character. Bastilla from Knights of the Old Republic is one of my favorite female characters of all time. Thus, with satisfaction, Bioware brought back Jennifer Hale to play Commander Shepard.



My first play through in Mass Effect was with a paragon female Shepard, and I was totally drawn into the universe. She was not only believable but inspirational. So, when I replayed as a male, it just wasn't the same. Thus, first times are usually the best times. But, I like to flush out different aspects of the game with different genders and different choices. But, my replays never have the same emotional impact.



Thus, Commander Shepard is female. She will always be female in my book. I am glad Bioware gives me that option. If EA makes a movie and chooses the lead to be played by a male, I don't know what I will do. But I would hope the movie would be a huge success. This is a great universe and I want it to go on and on.

[MsKlaussen]

In other news, I have officially changed my avatar in honor of Miranda, who (with a little timely help from FemShepard) found herself stuck between a rock and a hard place at the end of my first battle with the gigantic Reaper in the suicide mission. Sorry Miranda - when I said I'd be there when you died, it was just supposed to sound cool, not be a prediction :-(

[Collider]

I prefer playing as male shepard, as I am male in real life. Meer's voice acting really improved, and except for a couple lines, I've only praise for him. Seems a lot of thread consists of useless arguing, perceptions of gender roles, and the utter subjectivity of who is the better voice actor.



Ultimately, thinking that - without confirmation from Bioware - the Mass Effect games were created specifically with male or female shepard involved - boils down to sexism and stereotypical thinking - essentially, what constitutes as masculine and feminine, and the like.

[Puzzlewell]

I know I never plan to play a MaleShep. Jen Hale is just so perfect for FemShep that I could never *ever* listen to those lines given by a MaleShep without cringing a bit. :-P

[Eshaye]

All I have to say to this thread is that I am incredibly grateful to BioWare for giving me the opportunity as a female gamer who enjoys playing as her own gender, the opportunity to role play as the amazing Commander Shepard who's tough as nails and still has a sense of humor.

That said dialogue and animations better suited to a woman would be MOST appreciated. *thumbs up* :happy: As long as you don't give her an apron and show her the way to the kitchen that is...

And by that I mean in an effort to make her more feminine don't turn her into Rambo Barbie or something, or closer to Miranda, more appropriate dialogue in romances and different walking and sitting animations is really all you need!

Modifié par Eshaye, 16 février 2010 - 01:39 .