280 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyrandori]

I can't disagree more with the OP, but that's just my personal stance, I have yet to complete my Male Shepard ME1 game because I just cannot stand the voice actor, he sucks, especially in ME2 as a Renegade, if his voice acting was better I would have resumed that game already and imported it in ME2, but just watching videos of it on the web in ME2 as both Paragon and Renegade makes me wonder why the hell BioWare did not fire him at this point... but yeah, that's just my opinion.

[KumoriOokami]

InvaderErl wrote...

I think this is a case of people seeing what they WANT to see. On Both sides.

Definitely.  Very glad we're allowed to though   re: thanks BW for including both options here! <3

[noobeffect]

Luc0s wrote...
...

Right... I'm not going to take your post serious, I hope you understand why. Twisting and bending other people's words to make something completely different out of it is not a smart thing to do if you want to be taken serious.

Yet you responded anyway and took the post seriously.

[wizardryforever]

InvaderErl wrote...

I think this is a case of people seeing what they WANT to see. On Both sides.

Exactly, took the words right out of my, er, fingers.

I think a LOT of the preference here comes from which gender you are in real life, people will always identify more with their own gender and feel awkward and out of place playing the opposite gender.  I admit my guilt in this.

[Kolaris8472]

Luc0s wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...

It sounds like a serious point to me. What specific moments were you thinking Femshep came off as a weak character if you don't have any specific moments, just stereotypes and Maleshep playthrough experience?

I'm basing my opinion on ME2 and small parts of what I've seen from ME2. This topic could have been placed in the Mass Effect 1 forum, sure, but does it really matter?

A few examples from both ME1 and what I've seen from ME2 where I think femshep doesn't fit:

ME1 - the spectre speech when Anderson hands over the Normandy to you. I loved Mark Meer's typical commando speech, either way, paragon or renegade, it doesn't matter, his speech was awesome. Femshep sounded more like my old gymnastic teacher explaning how we are screwed if we didn't get a C+ for gymnastics at high-school...

ME1 - While escording Liara out of the digside, the krogan merch encounter, renegade option "I don't have time for this, charge!". Again, maleShep nailed it, femShep just didn't make it sound believable.

ME1 - Preaching Hanar on the Citadel, renegade dialogue "because it's a big stupid jellyfish". MaleShep's sarcastic voice was hilarious, it made me laugh, femShep's version didn't do anything for me.

ME2 - Archangle mission, renegade encounter with the Blue Suns mechanist (forgot his name), "you're working to hard". I loved the sarcastic voice of Mark Meer on that one, missed that when I saw the femShep version.

ME1 - Most of the Conrad dialogues (especially the gun-in-his-face part) felt awkward and less convincing with femShep.

ME2 - Old council offers you spectre reinstatement, renegade dialogue, "take that offer and cram it up your ass". Femshep just didn't make it sound believable.

ME2 - Krogan headbutt. Good that it works for some people, but I couldn't help raise an eyebrow when I first saw that scene with a female Shepard. That part was not cool with femshep, just weird.


Okay, paragon femshep pretty much works, but for me, the renegade **** additude just doesn't cut it. the maleshep bastard renegade is way better and way more convincing.

Need more?

Nope. You've solidified your opinion. And its a perfectly acceptable opinion at that. I had just as many problems with Male Shephard's voice work, but am willing to admit Femsheps had their fair share of doozies. "Dismissed....Chief", for one. And Malesheps have their share. If you play it through fast enough, its laughable to see that Malesheps show more emotion when talking with Saren on Virmire and then again on the Citadel than they do with their love interests in between. You practically beg Saren to say he didn't mean it, with the line "Why are you doing this" being so emotionally out of character I figured my Shephard had been shot during the scramble. And then you get back on the Normandy and try to act smooth after rolling around in the hay..."No, you were incredible". Why didn't he just read a book or smoke a cigarette. 

Its also possible that the voice actors have different strengths. Maybe Malesheps make more convincing Renegades, and Femsheps better Paragons (I think its reversed), but why the hell does that mean Femsheps aren't a convincing period? Sounds to me you just have one specific view for your character, which is fine. For an opinion.

I'd also almost go and say your opinion on the headbutt is...wrong, it just has so much there if the chalanting Krogan, who comes from a species and culture where females are off in breeding camps 24/7, is knocked in the face not only by a human but a female at that. Half and half again his size. Its like adding insult to injury. And then adding more insult. 

[Console Cowboy]

Collider wrote...

I prefer playing as male shepard, as I am male in real life. Meer's voice acting really improved, and except for a couple lines, I've only praise for him. Seems a lot of thread consists of useless arguing, perceptions of gender roles, and the utter subjectivity of who is the better voice actor.

Ultimately, thinking that - without confirmation from Bioware - the Mass Effect games were created specifically with male or female shepard involved - boils down to sexism and stereotypical thinking - essentially, what constitutes as masculine and feminine, and the like.

ding ding ding

[jstne]

"Yes, but even though femShep is a soldier, she's still a woman."



Am I reading this right? uhhh

[newcomplex]

The VA is so goddam good. Infinite .



Script is super meh.



Reversed for maleshep.

[SupidSeep]

Just my opinion (I only play paragon, just can't stand playing renegade save in a few situations):

In ME1, Mark Meer sound rather bland. Jennifer Hale was great and part of the reason I like playing femShep.

In ME2, I feel MM has improved a great deal and actually found a bit of JH's delivery a letdown after ME1's stellar performance. Still, I feel JH still has a lead over MM.

[The Tony Show]

I'm a 30 year old guy, married with kids, and Commander Shepard IS a woman to me. 

My first playthrough of ME1 was Paragon Male, and just for kicks I did the exact opposite on the second- Renegade Female.  After playing it that second time, I chose to do a third run as a Paragon Female and keep that file to import into ME2.  At the last minute, I loaded that file up and played through ME1 again to max her out at lvl 60, and have now played through ME2 three times as Cris Shepard, badass (and female) defender of the galaxy.  Every video I see of Male Shepard, I think "Who's that guy?  That's not Shepard."

I don't know if it's the voice actor, the face or a combination of both, but I just dug the character more as a Woman.  At this point, Commander Shepard will always be a Woman in my game world.  It just comes down to each person's personal preferences.

[Console Cowboy]

Luc0s wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...

it just has so much there if the chalanting Krogan, who comes from a species and culture where females are off in breeding camps 24/7, is knocked in the face not only by a human but a female at that. Half and half again his size. Its like adding insult to injury. And then adding more insult. 

I have to admit that I haven't seen it from that perspective. I never realized that female Krogan are basically only good for reproduction in their culture (or maybe we're mistaken and female Krogans are warrior as well? we can't really know for sure since we haven't seen a single female Krogan so far).

in a ME1 elevator conversation Wrex mentions to Ashley that there are no female krogan warriors.

[Lmaoboat]

For me, maleShep is just easier on the ears. FemSheps voice just sounds too gruff, like she's constantly pissed. MaleShep doesn't sound like he's acting, in a good way.

[JamieCOTC]

slicer477 wrote...

I don't know about you but I much prefer to stare at the arse of a female shepard rather then male.

LOL. I saw that on a Youtube review of ME2. "If I'm going to stare at someone's ass for 30 hours, it might as well be a chick's."  Sexist, possibly.  Funny, yes. 

[JamieCOTC]

The Tony Show wrote...

I'm a 30 year old guy, married with kids, and Commander Shepard IS a woman to me. 

My first playthrough of ME1 was Paragon Male, and just for kicks I did the exact opposite on the second- Renegade Female.  After playing it that second time, I chose to do a third run as a Paragon Female and keep that file to import into ME2.  At the last minute, I loaded that file up and played through ME1 again to max her out at lvl 60, and have now played through ME2 three times as Cris Shepard, badass (and female) defender of the galaxy.  Every video I see of Male Shepard, I think "Who's that guy?  That's not Shepard."

I don't know if it's the voice actor, the face or a combination of both, but I just dug the character more as a Woman.  At this point, Commander Shepard will always be a Woman in my game world.  It just comes down to each person's personal preferences.

Nail on the head.  Even when I see ofther femSheps, I say that's not Shepard.  And that's the way the game is designed.  BioWare did one hell of a job, I'd say. 

[skyferret]

Luc0s wrote...

 Like I said earlier in this topic, characters need at least SOME stereotypical character traids, because without a few stereotypes we can't get a grip at the character, that's how human psychology works, we NEED stereotypes. A female totally acting like a male just doesn't cut it. However, a female with male traids, withou losing her female traids, works like a charm.
In my opinion, femshep in ME is more like "female acting like male" and not "female with male traids".

I think you mean archetypes, or something human to relate to.

Otheriwse, I'm really not going to bother with. FemShep's pretty awesome in my books, good enough for me.

[GarethLorn]

I agree 100% with OP. Playing a FemShep just feels... off. Jennifer Hale has much better voice acting skill than Mark Meer, in my opinion, but her voice itself just feels... off. It just doesn't really fit the character of Shepard (no matter what Shepard is, personality wise) in my opinion. Also, FemShep moves and looks really weird when jogging around in her casuals on the Normandy. This is the reason I've never beaten ME1 as a FemShep, even though I've had more than five different FemShep accounts since 2007.

[JamieCOTC]

Luc0s wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Your problem is that there isnt enough differentiation between male and female shep. I actually love this, gender is not a big deal.

Exactly. I think gender DOES matter, especially in a story-driven game like Mass Effect. Small details can make or break a character and gender is a little more than just a "small" detail.

To me, female Shepard just doesn't cut it, unless BioWare would have made her more a femme-fatale type of character, with her own unique dialogues and behavior. Right now, female Shepard's dialogue and behavior is just copy-paste from male Shepard.

Except that a marine commander is not and never will be a "femme fatale" regardless of gender. Femshep is a soldier, the best soldier humanity has to offer (unless you play as manshep, in which case she doesnt exist) the standard femme fatal attributes would just feel odd. There are some differences in peoples reactions too you but not much, and anyway, why would a Turian react differently to a female or male human? It would make no difference to them.

Yes, but even though femShep is a soldier, she's still a woman. A woman with hardly any woman characteristics is not convincing. Even Samus Aran, who is in her suit for 99% of all time and barely talks, feels more natural to me than female Shepard. Samus Aran is a diehard space soldier, but she didn't lose her femminine part because of that. From what I've seen so far from Metroid Other M, Samus is really going to hit the nail in that game on how an awesome female space marine should act and look like.

I think Jennifer Hale did a superb job at giving her character some feminine traids in a very few lines (gotta say, I loved the encounter with the looters on Mordin's recruitment mission in ME2 with femshep, her renegade dialogue really shines at that part), but in my opinion she basically sounds just as monotone as some people claim Mark Meer sounds. For femShep, I hope to see more lines from the same quality as the looters-part in ME3. With that quality and a bit more feminine character-animations for femshep, and maybe then I'll start to love femshep as much as I love maleShep.

I think they both sound monotone when spouting out lines like, "What is a volous?" or "What is this room used for?"  I think I read that there was twice as much dialog in ME2 as in ME1.  Anyway, I would love it if femShep was just a bit more feminine, but is that possible when it is the same script for both?  I would think some tweaking could be involved, but I honestly don't know. 

Whatever the case, femShep is not as butch as Janeway.  (Hell, Picard wasn't as butch as Janeway, what am I saying?)

[MsKlaussen]

Luc0s wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Your problem is that there isnt enough differentiation between male and female shep. I actually love this, gender is not a big deal.

Exactly. I think gender DOES matter, especially in a story-driven game like Mass Effect. Small details can make or break a character and gender is a little more than just a "small" detail.

To me, female Shepard just doesn't cut it, unless BioWare would have made her more a femme-fatale type of character, with her own unique dialogues and behavior. Right now, female Shepard's dialogue and behavior is just copy-paste from male Shepard.

Except that a marine commander is not and never will be a "femme fatale" regardless of gender. Femshep is a soldier, the best soldier humanity has to offer (unless you play as manshep, in which case she doesnt exist) the standard femme fatal attributes would just feel odd. There are some differences in peoples reactions too you but not much, and anyway, why would a Turian react differently to a female or male human? It would make no difference to them.

Yes, but even though femShep is a soldier, she's still a woman. A woman with hardly any woman characteristics is not convincing. Even Samus Aran, who is in her suit for 99% of all time and barely talks, feels more natural to me than female Shepard. Samus Aran is a diehard space soldier, but she didn't lose her femminine part because of that. From what I've seen so far from Metroid Other M, Samus is really going to hit the nail in that game on how an awesome female space marine should act and look like.

I think Jennifer Hale did a superb job at giving her character some feminine traids in a very few lines (gotta say, I loved the encounter with the looters on Mordin's recruitment mission in ME2 with femshep, her renegade dialogue really shines at that part), but in my opinion she basically sounds just as monotone as some people claim Mark Meer sounds. For femShep, I hope to see more lines from the same quality as the looters-part in ME3. With that quality and a bit more feminine character-animations for femshep, and maybe then I'll start to love femshep as much as I love maleShep.

This.

It seems as though there is a belief that femininity is the antithesis of physical heroism. Considering the sheer number of examples to the contrary, I think that's very outdated.

Look at heroines in shows like Dark Angel, Alias, Xena, etc., or Janeway from Star Trek, or a host of other really tough women. They didn't become manly to be tough. You could say the Marine training changes things, but everyone in Starship Troopers was a Marine. Why didn't Dizzy lose her femininity becoming a hard charging soldier who was one of the first into battle?

One does not follow the other.There is a middle ground. Someone suggested it could have been a cost cutting/additional effort thing. But then why put a female Shepard in the game and only after it takes off decide to cut costs? And given the success of the first game, how much could it have cost to hire a woman to get into the motion capture suit? I think it's lazy.

The other characters are unmistakably female, and they fight too. They're not obnoxiously female in their movements and such, but they're not jack-booted golems either. When I select "female" for my character, I want a woman - not Marv from Sin City with boobs and a ponytail, and not a pogo stick with boobs and high cheekbones.

[dawsdgd]

People need to carm down with the emotions going on in here the whole "OH FEM SHEP SPEECH WAS HEART WARMING while MALE SHEP WAS STALE AND BORING" You think male shep is unrealistic have you met other people? people speak like that deal with it.

[Sharn01]

You answered your own question when you where writing your origonal post, you just did not realize it.



I played a femShep first and can never get in to playing a maleShep, it always felt wrong. After poking around on the boards for a bit, it seems to be that people get attached to the first Shepard they play, and they always have a preference for that Shepard when ever they play Mass Effect.



Some people get so attached to a Shepard that even changing they way they look, and a rare few even the class, makes it feel wrong.

[4lice4nn]

I thought femShep's VA was great. I honestly think the female VA is better than that of the maleShep, but that's just me...



I do agree with you about scripting. Some of the lines seemed *very* odd when spoken by my femShep, yet I never noticed them as being odd during my maleShep run. There were also some things that I don't think any woman would ever say, but I dunno... there might be some super manly females out there somewhere that I have yet to meet.

[InvaderErl]

Sharn01 wrote...

Some people get so attached to a Shepard that even changing they way they look, and a rare few even the class, makes it feel wrong.

*raises hand sheepishly.

Infiltrator/Default MaleShep 4 life!


Anyway, I think two great examples of female sci-fi bad asses that managed to retain their femininity while remained hard edged are Areyn Sun and Starbuck.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 16 février 2010 - 05:11 .