280 réponses à ce sujet

[MutantSpleen]

Luc0s wrote...

The reason why I don't like femShep is because she doesn't feel natural to me and that is because she's a female-model copy-paste over the same script as male Shepard (with a few differences here and there). FemShep walks, talks and act like a male. Yes, you heard that right, I think Jennifer Hale tried to sound to much like a hard-*ss masculine b*tch instead of just a natural realistic woman.

Like someone else said in this topic, Mark Meer sounds realistic, he talks like how a real commando would talk in reallife. Jennifer Hale sounds clearly acted. FemShep doesn't sound like a female commando, she sounds like someone who tries to ACT like a female commando.

Because you are an expert on what female commandos sound like, right?

I think you are are just put off by strong commanding women and try to play it off as if she is "acting like a male" or its all a show becasue no female could actually be a hardass leader. She doesn't use her feminine charms then its just an act, right?  I don't think you realize how chauvinist you sound even if that is not your intention.

Personally I think Meer sounds like a wimp and the other male actors in the game put him to shame. Maybe that's the way "real male commandos" talk I wouldn't know, but I do know what sounds wimpy.

[alpha54]

Luc0s wrote...

I'm not sure, but female Shepard just doesn't sound right. She sounds acted, as if Jennifer Hale forcefully tried to push away all her feelings and emotions while trying to do female Shepards dialogue as cold and monotone as possible.

I guess a lot of that still comes down to personal opinion. I've found female Shepard's voice more fitting in both games, the male Shepard voice never worked for me. To each their own, I guess.

[MutantSpleen]

I think she sounds just right. I hear criticism that she is either monotone or too emotional. Well which is it? I personally don't think she is monotone. I hear the little inflections in the way she stresses words to carry more weight. I also like that she gets a little emotional at times versus staying even-keel all the time. Plus you would have to imagine that she does act a little masculine at times because she has to. Otherwise many males would not give her the same respect, thinking she is a woman trying to do a man's job, it plays very realistic to me. She is a woman in a field dominated by men. I would hope by 2185 that there would be more equality between the sexes but old stereotypes die hard.

[Big Yam]

I thought Femshep's voice was more emotional, but inconsistent.  In a few situations, the emotion was overdone or even conveyed an inappropriate emotion.   Maleshep's voice was deadpan, but consistent throughout the game. 

Maleshep's voiceover package seemed more polished with regards to editing and direction, and I enjoyed it a slight bit more.

[Monglor]

I always play as the female Shepard. Makes the character a hell of a lot more interesting. Comes down to a few things:



1. Shepard as a bloke is a very, very ordinary character. He's just Generic Space Hero #3251. He could be Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, James T Kirk, Lee Adama or a hundred other more forgettable creations. Nothing male Shepard does as a man is particular big or clever because let's face it, he's not the first guy to save the universe. There is nothing about his role as a male character that is interesting, exciting or new. He is a cliche.



2. Shepard as a woman is not a cliche in the same way as manshep is. Traditionally science fiction heroines are almost always second fiddle to a male lead (Wilma Deering, Princess Leia, new BSG Starbuck) but Femshep is ruling the roost. That in and of itself sticks her in a very small group alongside the likes of Ripley and Janeway. So you've got this female character and that's great but then you've got the fact that, by being written effectively as a slightly feminised version of an essentially male character you've actually got a proper female commander. The fact is by writing her almost as a man they've pretty much nailed what a female soldier ought to be like, it's the very fact she's not written particularly feminine that makes the character work so well. That isn't to say that the character isn't convincing as a woman though, what I mean is that she is more convincing than if they had set out with a female Shepard in mind from the get go.



3. If you look at female characters in video games what do you see? T&A. Heaving breasts, skimpy costumes, an inability to jump, climb or take a punch without emitting a breathy little sigh and very little else. Hell even Mass Effect 2 itself can't get away from this. Shepard however is different. I mean sure she can be hot depending how good you are at building faces, but it doesn't define the character. She's a strong female character that doesn't need to resort to simply being eye candy. The fact that Femshep is so closely tied to the role of Manshep is essentially what saves her from turning into adolescent toss fodder.



4. The female character perspective works really well. There's more to the relationships with the female crew members than crude attempts to get into their pants. Femshep is a big sister to Tali, a confidant to Miranda, a surrogate daughter to Samara, rather than just a bloke trying to get some. They dropped the ball in my opinion with Jack's relationship with Femshep, in that she doesn't have one, but meh.



I think you can look at the Mass Effect and it's pretty clear that it's very much a product of a male fantasy. The only races that get to be ugly are near exclusively male when it comes to which species you can meet, the one race that is apparently female happens to be hot and like nothing more than going to war in skin tight catsuits and table dancing, it's all a bit juvenile. There's nothing wrong with that, it's a fantasy setting after all, but amid all that to actually find a female character that actually feels mature and grown up is a welcome break. If anything I think Mass Effect 1 did this better, Ash was a stronger female character than any of the ME2 batch and the game wasn't shy about letting the female characters dress appropriately for combat.

[Asheer_Khan]

@LucOus.



If i understand you correct your view of the military women is that she should swear like old sailor after too much rum?



Beside Shepard is NOT a Commando (i don't even known where you get this idea).



Except Spacer and Sole Survivor all other backgrounds are pure civilian.



There is pretty nice scene during talk between Shepard (i still need to find that) and Ashley (if i am correct) how they hate yelling on them officers during N7 training.

And that's why i think it's not voice made real leader but skill and how many trust can you get upon depending on you crew members as yelling on them.



And back to ME voice acting actually i find male Shepard voice washed out of any emotions when Hale if necessary can show various "colors" of the dialouges.

Good example is talk in ME 1 (too bad that ME 2 looks on this field like absolute dry desert) whit squad members after leaving Citadel for the first time as Normandy Captain

Hale can pretty well show that she can be soft when she speak whit Liara or Tali, little reserve when comes to Ashley (at least on the beginning) or even little challenging for Wrex when male Shepard is almost indifferent no matter what situation he faced and that's why i was able to make only one run as male Shepard... whit all respect for Meer (if i recall correct).

[Srau]

Shep is N7

N : Special Forces

7 : Level of qualification (out of 7)

I am not a military specialist but to me Special Forces ARE commandos (Green Berets, SOCOM, SEAL, Delta Force, British Commandos, SAS, Spetsnaz, JTF, RPIMA, RDP, etc etc).

[SarEnyaDor]

@ Luc0s

I had two posts before my "taking it too personally" one. The third came after you repeatedly rebutted others opinions by again stating that YOU DIDN'T THINK SO. So I came to the conclusion that what you really wanted in this thread was to convince everyone else that only your opinion was correct. Afterall, many many others had said they didn't think so, and yet you tried to convince them all of how out of place femShep is.

I admit some of Hale's lines make me cringe, but so do many of Meer's. Sometimes it is the line itself, sometimes it is the delivery.

But people repeatedly admitting that it is probably personal taste wasn't good enough for you which is why I thought you must have just found fault with having the female option.

I'm assuming now that you are a young man, maybe 21 at most, and are unused to seeing women in any light that is not sexual or a maternal and that is why you cannot get the fact that many of us don't think there is anything off-putting about femShep.

Yes, she walks like a man - it's not lazy so much as it is practical. If they had to re-do all the animations to make them "feminine" (and by the way, many women DON'T walk in a typically female way - see real life nurses, paramedics, soldiers, firefighters, cops etc) it would double the production cost and cost us the option of having femShep.

I'll take a stiffer walk over not having the option any day.

You also seem to want them to write two completely different scripts because you don't think she sounds female enough. Costs again, but then you'd add in the flood of complaints that "it's not fair, *I* wanted to say line X but couldn't because it was male/female only line!" and then the complaints about whose dialogue was superior, whose writer was superior on TOP of those who didn't like the delivery of said lines.

It comes back down to my original post in this thread:

SarEnyaDor said:
I'm sorry you don't like femShep, I persoanlly love Hale's voice acting and the freedom to actually play my own gender in a game that doesn't have elves.

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 16 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[StuartMarshall]

I played my Renegade runthrough as hardcore militant FemShep and found her awesome, her voice constantly had a mean edge to it.

[Kronner]

Personally, I think femShep is just weird and does not fit in the universe in the role of Commander Shepard, but I do understand that some people prefer femShep so in the end everyone is happy

[Neophyte Padawan]

I do think I agree with you OP about female Shepard's animations, some of which I agree look odd (specifically sitting on that box with her legs splayed wide apart when talking to Garrus on the Normandy!)

However you seem to be wanting femShep to undergo a complete character rewrite, giving her more 'feminine' dialogue choices as opposed to the current (in your opinion) 'masculine' ones, and giving her a completely different set of animations. I'd personally settle for just a few more gender-specific dialogue options, such as the one with the Merc recruiter in Afterlife in ME2 and talking with Harkin in ME1.

In spite of these issues though I do still vastly prefer the experience of playing as a female, and cannot see that BioWare intended the game to be played as a male asyou suggest, seeing as how they have included both genders of PCs since at least the time of Baldur's Gate.

Modifié par Neophyte Padawan, 16 février 2010 - 02:45 .

[s3bbi]

My problem with femshep isn't her voice, it's that i can't really create a femshep that's comparable to the standard maleshep, which just looks so much better.But i must admite i find the femshep voice a bit too deep.
While it may be correct that Meer acts less emotional, didn't play enough of my femshep to be able to really compare them in that aspect, i think his voiceacting suits the character. Could just be my own view of the character or that it's just easier for me to identify myself with the maleshep because i'm not that emotional myself, atleast i don't show it to people if you understand what i mean.

Peoples preference, male or female voice, in my opinion could be a alot about with which voice you can identify with or is closer to the picture you have of the character in mind.

Modifié par s3bbi, 16 février 2010 - 03:09 .

[Revan312]

[InvaderErl]

Revan312 wrote...

Finally some sense.

[AntiChri5]

@Lucos:



What i am hearing from you seems to be a lot of "women should act like this, women should look like that, if not they arent feminine"



I cant understand this reasoning, there are very few things a woman can do that makes her unfeminine to me. I agree the walk is off but that is for clearly stated reasons.

[tmp7704]

Luc0s wrote...

I think it has to do with expectations and how people expect a female commando would sound like. I'm not sure, but female Shepard just doesn't sound right. She sounds acted, as if Jennifer Hale forcefully tried to push away all her feelings and emotions while trying to do female Shepards dialogue as cold and monotone as possible.

Given you realize this is based totally on your personal expectations which in turn aren't based on anything concrete (as you don't have personal experience on what this kind of a person may or may not sound like) why insist on this narrow stereotype rather than try to broaden your view, which would let you enjoy the game more? If Shepard doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve but instead sounds cold, then accept this is what her character is actually like at least on the surface; objectively there's absolutely nothing there that says she can't be this way just because she's a female.

The whole thing about female Shepard being unnatural "because she follows copypasted male script" ... try to look at it this way -- this is not "male script". It's a tough, determined person script. These qualities are not limited to males only, and a female displaying them isn't "acting like a male" but simply being their own, tough self. To insist that a female cannot have these qualities and she must be "faking them" and "acting like a man" as if only men could ever show such traits... well, like someone else said, it comes across pretty sexist.

[SL22]

I just can't stand playing as a female character in RPGs, I'm fine if it's a game where the main protagonist is female but if I have a choice in what sex my character is then I'm going male.

I don't see the appeal of playing as a female character.

[cerberus1701]

Farscape-Fan wrote...

Marilynn-22 wrote...

I really don't like mark meers voice for the maleshep, sounds empty xD

Sole reason I play most of my Sheps as Female is because Jennifer Hale does such a kickass job!

This.

As I've said, Meer is MUCH improved. He still sounds bored and monotone much of the time.

[SarEnyaDor]

Well, considering they only have urinals in the future, she must pee standing up - is that a good enough male trait for you?

[Merci357]

tmp7704 wrote...

The whole thing about female Shepard being unnatural "because she follows copypasted male script" ... try to look at it this way -- this is not "male script". It's a tough, determined person script. These qualities are not limited to males only, and a female displaying them isn't "acting like a male" but simply being their own, tough self. To insist that a female cannot have these qualities and she must be "faking them" and "acting like a man" as if only men could ever show such traits... well, like someone else said, it comes across pretty sexist.

that's it - that's like saying if a male is polite, emotional and soft, he "acts like a female". But that's not the case.

However, for me (and that's just me, no one has to agree on this one, it's only my opinion, and as such not up for debate) Jennifer Hale does a far better job in bringing Shepard alive. No, Mark Meer isn't that bad, either. He's just not in the same league.

Modifié par Merci357, 16 février 2010 - 04:29 .

[tmp7704]

Luc0s wrote...

I already said that there is nothing wrong with women who have male traits. It's more that I find femShep not convincing enough to actually belief she is a woman with male traits. In my experience, femShep is more "a woman who acts like a male" instead of "a woman with male traits", which are two totally different things.

But like you also said, this is based purely on your own idea what the "woman with male traits" would be like. So my question was why insist on this entirely subjective belief when doing so means you get less enjoyment out of the game? Have you never ever in your life changed your mind about whether the way someone behaved was "acting" rather than being themselves?

And really, let's try to separate the animation-based mannerisms from the script/attitude since again what the characters say is very much a result of just individual traits which are not gender-specific. Stereotypically associated with one gender yes but that's just that, a stereotype which if anything should be done away with.